I have never been a serious bench shooter. Like a lof of guys I would pull out the 30-06 at the beginning of November, shoot enough to feel cofident I could get consistant groupings at 100-yards. Maybe, if lucky, I took one shot during deer season. But more often than not the gun was cleaned and put in the safe for another year.

Last fall I picked up a nice pre-64 M70 in 220 Swift and topped it with a new Leupold VX 6.5-20x AO scope with their varmit retical and off to the range I went. Got dialed in at 100-yards then moved out to 200. I am all over the paper. Then for s&g I take a target out to 300-yards and managed to hit the paper - once out of three shots. (These are full size targets).

Obviously I need to practice but how do I get better? I don't consider myself to be a bad shot. I can shoot sub 1" groups with my pre-64 M70 in 3006 with factory ammo and a Leupold 4x scope all day long. This Swift has taught me a little humility.

I know that I need to steady my rest and work on my form and I know that I need to give the bore a good scrubbing. But besides reloading my own ammo, how can I get better with my form and what else can I do to be comfortable shooting out to 300 yards.

Hey Doublegun

Moving to 300 yards can be a humbling experience, don't ask me how I know!

Like anything else it takes practice. A couple of years ago before an Elk hunt in Colorado, the other hunters wanted to shoot "long distance" to check their guns. I said sure meet you at the 300 yard range and they gave me flack and asked why not the 500 or 600 yard range! I insisted and at the end of the session they retreated with heads bowed mumbling about not taking any long shots!

When shooting long range you need to learn to deal with a couple of things right off. One is cant, which is not holding your scope reticle level. You can hold your rifle canted but a canted reticle will pull your shot to one side and lead to more drop. Best way to fix it is with an anti-cant device like the ScopeLevel



The longer distance you shoot the more important it becomes. Here is a further explanation.

The other thing of course is any kind of variation in your load; velocity, runout, etc.

You need to be shooting a good long range bullet, especially in the 220 Swift at high velocity and with a small caliber bullet the wind will have a large effect.

I also make my own targets which makes it easy to see bullet impacts without waiting for a cease fire just to go down and see where you are hitting. You could use Shoot-N-C's


or get some 30x40 poster board from Office Depot (if they haven't been Obamanated out of business), cover it with some clear Carpet Mask and paint it with cheap flat black paint



It is important that you are able to monitor your shots at 300 yards to save you a lot of frustration.

But mainly, practice practice practice.

I've done very little shooting at 300, but quite a bit at 200, with a 30-06, 4x leupold. My best 200 yard group is just under two inches for five shots.
Your outfit sounds like it should be good. One thing to consider is your trigger control. Practice slow, controlled sqeezing of the trigger, making sure to have the crosshairs right on the target at all times. Also, take a minute to read up on the trajectory of the load you are using, and figure out the hold-over at the ranges you are shooting. It will help you out quite a bit, I think. Good luck
Good hunting,
Graham

I want to start off by stating that I am not suggesting that your barrel is shot but, many pre-64 220 Swifts were subjected to more than their share of factory loaded 40 gr bullets at 4100 fps. Having been a member of the "hot rod reloaders club" for many years I've seen a few other members foul their barrels badly trying to "outspeed" each other. I would try a thorough barrel cleaning and copper removal. Then go back and start over.

Another thing that no one mentioned, surprisingly, is the wind factor. I have an old Nosler reloading manual from the late 1970's. In the ballistics section it also has "windage" factors for 10,20,30 mph. winds. at , I believe for 100 to 500 yard ranges.(I am out of town at the moment and don't have the book handy) I have found it to be very accurate. Serving from memory, I believe a 55 gr. bullet leaving the muzzle at 3700 fps. will be blown off course appox. 1-1/2" in a 10mph wind at 100 yards. That is in a steady wind. I don't know how it is where you shoot but where I live the wind NEVER is steady. It goes from 5mph to 15,20mph in a matter of seconds and varies from my bench all the way to my 200 yard target and will blow in different directions around trees, buildings,etc. But, they will always hit somewhere on paper usually in a 1-1/2 to 3" group, just not where I was aiming.

Another important factor for long distance shooting (300 yds) is a good trigger with a pull light enough that your not having to tug on the trigger and no creep. You want a consistent, easy, crisp break of the trigger sear.

You just can't minimize the value of practice at that distance. You'll begin to know when you've made a good shot or when you haven't. I can almost always tell whether I made a good shot or not without checking the target.

If you've got a pre-64 Swift, my first suspect would be the barrel. Your friendly, neighborhood gunsmith can tell you yes or no. Next, you didn't say what sort of shooting set up you were shooting from? Good solid table? Sand bags? Solid front rest? How is your technique? What size is your 300 yard aiming point? Have you tried some dry firing? How much is your cross hairs moving when you pull the trigger? If they're moving any at all, that's too much?
I'd start with the barrel. I know this will bring howls but the pre-64's looked nice but........

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
Another important factor for long distance shooting (300 yds) is a good trigger with a pull light enough that your not having to tug on the trigger and no creep. You want a consistent, easy, crisp break of the trigger sear.

I agree with what you say here. IMHO it is super important that you learn how to ""squeeze"" and hold on target even with clunky military triggers. Many of my rifles still have military triggers. Learning to handle the difficult as well as the E_Z, is a real plus. roger

One thing that I've learned over the years on longer range shooting is the importance of trigger control and proper release of the trigger.

One of the best ways to practice this is to shoot a handgun, usually a center fire revolver, at long distance. If you're shooting a .44, .45, .357 at 100-150 yards and jerk the trigger is any form or fashion you will miss the target by 20-30 feet!!!!

Launched at 4100 fps a 40 grain V max will drift 10.6 inches at 300 yds. At 5 mph it's 5.3" That is alot of change in drift at that range.

If you want to get better at 300 yds, the cheap way to do it and learn how to hold the rifle and squeeze the trigger when shooting, is to get out the old bolt action 22 LR.. mount the same power of scope you are planning on using with your Swift....

then place reduced sized targets at 100 and 125 meters....

after you learn to shoot tighter groups with those, then go set up a target at 100 yds on a board in the woods, and practice that off hand..

like a couple of times, or three in a week for a couple of weeks...I do so with 100 rounds each time out..

believe me, it is eye opening how fast your shooting skills will increase in a very short period of time...

then take the old Swift or 06 out to the range and set up those 300 yd targets...You will impress yourself with the results...

your performance not being what you desire is strictly lack of trigger time...

and long distance practice with a 22LR will accomplish what you are looking to accomplish with a centerfire, as far as training you better...

it will also be a lot cheaper, plus you won't wear out the barrel on that wonderful old Swift...

Concentrate shooting thru your shots...Like Seafire said a scoped .22RF is good for learning that...

Searfire makes a great point. Shooting a .22LR a lot is good. Keep trying to reduce your group size. Use good shooting style and technique every shot. SHOOT A LOT!!!

P.S. Find the ammo that your .22LR shoots well so you'll know when your shooting well. Some of the cheap stuff shoots all over the place. You wan't something that is capable of tight groups if you shoot them.

I recently joined a Tactical Rifle club and we shoot out to 1,000 yds. The first time I ever tried this I was truly amazed at how accurate you can be if you have a steady rest and Sque-e-e-eze the trigger. Most of the shooting is done prone off a bipod and rear sandbag. My 6.5x55 SM can shoot right there with the best of the 30's. A lot of practice is necessary, but FUN!

Watch the wind, make sure you are level as well. I hate looking through someone's scope and the crosshairs are way off. Second, try and dial in your scope for the 300 yard shot, the bullet will drop a couple inches. Try cleaning your barrel reaaaaaaaally good as well, an old 220 Swift could be NASTY inside.

Not trying to teach anyone how to suck eggs, But add to all the other good advice a little breath control, As in your shorter range shots you may not have noticed your technique could have defects, As you stretch your range any "Wind effect" can come from your chest too!

Thanks, all.

First thing I am going to do is scrub out the barrel, really well.

Second thing, practice trigger pull/release - my form in general. And I am going to work on my set-up, making sure my rest is stable and that I am holding the rifle properly.

As for the barrel, I am well aware of the problem associated with wearing out a 220 Swift barrel with hot-loads. I checked the barrel before I purchased and was told that the barrel still has a lot of life left in it. The overall condition of the rifle is very high so I have no reason to suspect that is a problem. Also, I am pretty dialed in at 100-yards - if the barrel was shot would I be able to shoot tight groups at 100-yards?

I never trust any group at 100 until it's verified at 200. What you think is a good sight in at 100 may be revealed to be several inches off at 200. This will compound itself at 3,4 & 500.

I learned sight picture/trigger control from shooting off the bench. I also did a fair amount of 22LR shooting at the same time so that probably kept the ballance but I was able to carry it over to 22LR and centre-fire off-hand shooting. Great idea to use the 22LR as a long-range practice rifle. (Mmmm .... I happen to have a Toss 22LR without bolt and seriously crappy exterior finish but oh, what a bore! One-in-fourteen twist too?! Time to get or build a bolt and start shooting it!)

Doublegun, you didn't say what loads were are using? (I think). I believe it would not be too unusual for a group to open up exponentially down range just because the bullet is unstable in flight. I am getting good accuracy from a rust damaged barrel after some load developement, even at some range. I did recrown the rifle and remove a few millimeters from the muzzle.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...or get some 30x40 poster board from Office Depot (if they haven't been Obamanated out of business), cover it with some clear Carpet Mask and paint it with cheap flat black paint...

What a stellar idea!
Shoot-N-C's work very well, but they aren't cheap!

Thanks!

---Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
First thing I am going to do is scrub out the barrel, really well.

Second thing, practice trigger pull/release - my form in general. And I am going to work on my set-up, making sure my rest is stable and that I am holding the rifle properly.

As for the barrel, I am well aware of the problem associated with wearing out a 220 Swift barrel with hot-loads. I checked the barrel before I purchased and was told that the barrel still has a lot of life left in it. The overall condition of the rifle is very high so I have no reason to suspect that is a problem. Also, I am pretty dialed in at 100-yards - if the barrel was shot would I be able to shoot tight groups at 100-yards?

Try some J-B Non-Embedding Bore Cleaner and Bore Bright.

It comes in TWO different compounds -- cleaning (kind of gray) and polishing (kind of reddish).

I use the cleaner first and then if that doesn't fix it, use the finer grit to polish.

Used it on many rifles and handguns (and a couple shotguns, too) never did my groups get worse and many times they were significantly better.

I would not use it for regular cleaning, as it is not necessary. JB simply smooths out the bore and makes subsequent cleaning less hassle.

J-B @ Brownells

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
...or get some 30x40 poster board from Office Depot (if they haven't been Obamanated out of business), cover it with some clear Carpet Mask and paint it with cheap flat black paint...

What a stellar idea!
Shoot-N-C's work very well, but they aren't cheap!

Thanks!

---Mike

I was just thinking that a friend of mine is a butcher...

White butcher paper on a roll is about 36" wide and forever long.
If stapled to a scrap piece of OSB, plywood or particle board would be just as effective
as poster board and CHEAP.

FWIW, everybodies talking about shooting.
Dry firing: practicing breathing and trigger control can be practiced on the kitchen table with a tiny bullseye taped to the wall. And it may be better for you than live fire. It also lets you not worry about a round going off.
'course, I don't know if a 6x20 would work in the average house, but dry firing can be practiced with any rifle.

It all boils down to "trigger time"

Dry firing has it's place, but actually shooting is also necissary.

There are people who practice hitting nickel sized targets at 100yards, half dollar sized targets at 200yd and targets the size of a tennis ball at 300yd, and not only can they do it but can choose where on that szed target they want the bullet to fall.

Who am I talking about? varmint shooters.

After you spent all summer shooting woodchucks in the head at 200-400yds shooting a whitetail doe in the head or a buck in the heart is about as difficult as pouring a cup of coffee without breaking the pot against your head.

As I was told in the early 80's when I took up trap shooting...
"Practice, practice, practice... and $10,000 worth of ammunition wouldn't be a bad idea"

Buy another bolt action rifle as similar as possible to your primary hunting rifle and spend time behind the buttplate and trigger.

MY current two primary hunting rifles are a Remington 700 in 30-06 and a homebrew clone of a 700 Sendero in 7mmMag, my varmint rifle is a Rem700VSSF in 223Rem.

223Rem ammo is CHEAP, even a day spent raining varmint bullets on retired driving range golf balls scattered at random distances from 100 to 300yards
or 20guage shotshells of a brand that you don't reload....

The idea being if you can routinely hit a mouse sized target hitting anthing bigger is EASY.

Deer aren't impressed by groups.

Frankly, the only difference I feel between shooting a deer with my 30-06 and shooting a woodchuck with my 223 is that with the 223 I don't normally lose my sight picture during recoil, while with the 30-06 I expect to never see the animal again, typically it's on the ground before I can reaquire the target.

Of course I'm only half an hour from someplace where I have an endless invitation to kill anything that moves
(an orchard)
and it takes me longer to pack up my "Range stuff"
than it takes to get to the Range (there are two houses between my house and the 300yard club range)

So I'll say:

Trigger Time, Trigger Time, Trigger Time... whatever you've gotta do to get it.

AD

I never even bothered shooting at 200 yards or more at the range when I started shooting. Of course not, why would I? I was a crack shot at 100 yards and the guns printed nicely. I had a reputation to uphold!

But when I moved to a new range to shoot and discovered the first day I went that they only had 200 yard targets set up, I was taken aback. And then I proceeded to completely disappoint myself, I couldn't even begin to approach my 100 yard accuracy. Small problems in my form, breathing patterns, trigger motion, posture, and other things you normally don't think about when shooting slowly became apparent to me and were compounded over longer distances with more drastic effect. I was all over the paper.

It took a lot of work, basically relearning how to shoot. I bought a cheap Marlin .22 and added a cheap Tasco scope and shot it every weekend, at least 200 rounds, focusing on individual shot technique at first, then on grouping strings of shots. Once I had that down I progressed to my hunting guns and had a much easier time with my technique refined somewhat, and moving out to even 300 yards I can still manage to shoot straight with some degree of consistency.

I swear that little package, a few bricks of ammo, and a couple hours a week over the summer did more for my shooting ability than anything else has before or since. Nothing beats shooting a lot - you become more aware of yourself with each passing shot and when work work at it, the consistency you'll develop will pay off big time.

That's, of course, barring any problems with the rifle itself. Amazing what the dinky little .22LR can teach us about our shooting (.17HMR is pretty cool, too)!

This is all great stuff guys, thanks! Exactly what I was looking for.

The last couple of post really sum up everhtying. Trigger time - I'll practice dry-firing for form. (I have also been working with handguns for trigger control). When I get back out to the range next week I am not even going to try 300-yards - I'll stick to 200.

Micky, your comments gave me a different persoective. 3 of my 4 primary rifles are pre-64 M70's, all of which are the same configuration. (220 Swift, 30-06 and 300 H&H) So working on longer distances with my Swift will definitly pay off with my 06 and H&H.

Thanks again

Everyone gave very good advice,I'll ad one more a good shooting rest is real important to get small groups also.
I make my long range targets like woods suggested.I get a roll of clear shipping tape from the dollar store for $1 a can of flat black paint,and some card board with a white side to it. You can just spray over the bullet holes and shoot them again and again.You can use any color paint.

The solution is to buy and learn how to use wind flags.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by owensby:
I make my long range targets like woods suggested.I get a roll of clear shipping tape from the dollar store for $1 a can of flat black paint,and some card board with a white side to it. You can just spray over the bullet holes and shoot them again and again.You can use any color paint.

Hey owensby, how wide does the clear shipping tape come in? Do you just keep going back and forth across the target? That carpet mask ain't cheap!

Hey Flippy, I'm not sure the butcher paper would work but let us know. You couldn't paint the butcher paper on the slick side but maybe on the matte side if that's what you were thinking. It might work better if you just painted the wood white and then put some kind of clear sticky film on top. The effect is that the poster board or cardboard is pushed out of the way and the clear film pops the black paint off. That is why I said to use cheap black paint cause one time I used some more expensive RustOleum and it wouldn't pop off as well.

quote:

The solution is to buy and learn how to use wind flags.

Aaaaah...! Just when I thought it was going to be easy!

Do those wind flags need to be as high as the bullet flight path?

Where I shoot the wind can go from a slight breeze from my shooting position to quite strong mid-range over the crest below, to hardly noticeable on the ground where the target is. Hilly countryside!
However, wind flag reading it must be! Any tips?

Hey, you know, my hornet has been 'sleeping' for a while now, that would be ideal for long range practice - much cheaper to load for and a bit more sensitive to wind than my 25. Mmmmm....

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
hat carpet mask ain't cheap!

Hey Flippy, I'm not sure the butcher paper would work but let us know. You couldn't paint the butcher paper on the slick side but maybe on the matte side if that's what you were thinking. It might work better if you just painted the wood white and then put some kind of clear sticky film on top. The effect is that the poster board or cardboard is pushed out of the way and the clear film pops the black paint off. That is why I said to use cheap black paint cause one time I used some more expensive RustOleum and it wouldn't pop off as well.

Cheap spray paint does not have the bonding agents of better paint, Plastikote, Rust-o-leum, etc. that is why it "pops" off the plastic.

The Carpet mask is about $26.00 for a 24" X 200' roll.
If you made 24X24 inch targets the cost per target for the Carpet mask would be $0.26!
A Shoot-N-C target that size would be at least $5.00 each if they made them that size.
(18" Shoot-N-C are $2.91 each at Cabela's plus shipping, 12 for $34.99 + shipping)

I will let you know my results with the butcher paper. I planned on trying just painting the slick side with cheap spray paint and seeing how that works. I planned on substituting the butcher paper for the poster board as in the post above and seeing how that works.
I have most of a roll of carpet mask from a project a couple years ago that I can experiment with.

If I can make a shoot-n-c type target that is 24X24 for less than $2.00, that is a bargain.


Using wind flags is a great idea. Make sure to watch the grass and leaves next to the flags when you are at your range. In the real world you have to use "natural" wind flags. So use the wind flags you put out to guage what the leaves and grass are doing.
When you are out hunting, it will be much easier to hit your target at long distances, if you are familiar with how to guage the wind.

I use flourescent construction/hiking tape that comes on rolls stapled to wooden stickers.
Easy to see, easy to use, moves with the slightest wind, cheap and effective.

The tape is 2 in.cannot remember how long it was tho.Have 3 partial rolls here but the ifo tag is missing.
I have used saran wrap and it worked pretty good,but you have to stretch it pretty tight on the carboard and you have to protect it more hauling it back and forth to the range.The range I use is 25 miles from me.Usually make my targets 24x24in.That is the size target frames we use.
Here lately I have been useing a roll of the butcher paper,I just stick one inch shoot and see dots on it and at 300 (thats the max range at the club) you can usually see the bullet holes with your rifle scope and I use a spotting scope also.
Haven't thought about trying to paint the shiny side but may work.

For wind flags I prefer 1" wide flourescent "surveyors tape"
which is just 1" wide blaze orange plastic

And for "poles" to support it on I would recommend going to your local Lowes or Home Depot and getting a ten-pack bundle of "Lollipop reflectors" like those people use to mark their driveways.

The fiberglass poles are just about perfect.

Once you get used to 200yds transitioning to 300yds isn't nearly as tough as training yourself to go from 100yds to 200yds.


I should note that to date I've shot very few big game animals at greater than 100yards
and only one significantly further than 200yards and that particular one was a very stupid spike buck that managed to wander onto a plot of ground on a friend's farm literally within a few steps of his 400yard target stand.

It was one of those rare days where it was absolutely windless (and bitter, bitter cold)

AD

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

The solution is to buy and learn how to use wind flags.

Aaaaah...! Just when I thought it was going to be easy!

Do those wind flags need to be as high as the bullet flight path?

Where I shoot the wind can go from a slight breeze from my shooting position to quite strong mid-range over the crest below, to hardly noticeable on the ground where the target is. Hilly countryside!
However, wind flag reading it must be! Any tips?

Hey, you know, my hornet has been 'sleeping' for a while now, that would be ideal for long range practice - much cheaper to load for and a bit more sensitive to wind than my 25. Mmmmm....

The answer to your test question is a resounding YES!!!
The wind flags should be at the same height as the path of the bullet.
And, the problems with wind blowing from east to west the first half of the distance, while it's blowing in an opposite direction the last half is what makes shooting in the wind so sporting...LMAO.

I made up a half dozen wind flags using music stands to hold them. They work too. I have a vane plus model airplane propellers on the front of the vane. The vane shows wind direction and the propler shows wind speed.

Good luck learning to shoot in the wind. It isn't easy. My son is a master at it; I just make a semi-intellegent guess..

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
For wind flags I prefer 1" wide flourescent "surveyors tape"
which is just 1" wide blaze orange plastic

And for "poles" to support it on I would recommend going to your local Lowes or Home Depot and getting a ten-pack bundle of "Lollipop reflectors" like those people use to mark their driveways.

The fiberglass poles are just about perfect.

That's the stuff! Comes in about 4 bright flourescent colors if you want to be fancy.

The plastic reflectors are a better idea.
I used the wooden stakes because I had access to a nearly endless supply of free ones.
And FREE is always better...

quote:

... the problems with wind blowing from east to west the first half of the distance, while it's blowing in an opposite direction the last half is what makes shooting in the wind ...

It's not going to be easy, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
Launched at 4100 fps a 40 grain V max will drift 10.6 inches at 300 yds. At 5 mph it's 5.3" That is alot of change in drift at that range.

And don't forget, the closer to the muzzle, the more effect the wind will have on the bullet path.

A 2 MOA shift near the muzzle is a little over 6" at 300 yards.

I think anyone capable of moa groups @ 100 is capable of "reasonable" groups @ 300. It definitely sounds like the load or a badly fouled barrel. Probably both. Play with the bullet seating depth, or diffrent factory loads after cleaning and see if you might find a load more tuned for your rifle. Also pick a calm morning or evening to shoot until you gain some confidence and then start playing less stable conditions when you know you and your rifle are able. There is no substitute for confidence.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I think anyone capable of moa groups @ 100 is capable of "reasonable" groups @ 300. It definitely sounds like the load or a badly fouled barrel. Probably both. Play with the bullet seating depth, or diffrent factory loads after cleaning and see if you might find a load more tuned for your rifle.
Also pick a calm morning or evening to shoot until you gain some confidence and then start playing less stable conditions when you know you and your rifle are able. There is no substitute for confidence.

You have it right there.

If you start thinking, "Man, I'm shooting 300 yards (or 400, 500 whatever) this is going to be hard, I'm not going to be any good, etc. you will psych yourself out, even if you and your combo is capable.
You have to know it can be done and know it COLD.

I had a friend who had purchased a mint BLR 308 rifle that he could not get to shoot. He had traded in his old faithful Ruger 77 on this mint BLR, and he just wasn't happy with the groups; 6" @ 100 yards with a 4X scope was unacceptable. So I told him I would try it out at the range. I swapped scopes, had several other people shoot it, etc. and it simply was not very accurate with 6 or 7 different loads.
He still refused to believe it was the rifle. He had let doubt creep into his skull.

I took him out to the range with my HB 6mm Varminter and it is a one-hole gun at 100. Almost no fun unless you are shooting more than 200 yards because you just open up one ragged hole no matter how many shots you pump through it.

After he shot a less than 1/2" group with it, all I said was, "You still think it's not your gun?"
He just turned to me and smiled.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
... 3 of my 4 primary rifles are pre-64 M70's, all of which are the same configuration. (220 Swift, 30-06 and 300 H&H) So working on longer distances with my Swift will definitly pay off with my 06 and H&H. ...

Hey Doublegun, I do not mean this "mean spirited" - your choice of rifle(P-64 M70) is not the best for long distance shooting. I had the P-64s when they were simply M70s and they have a unique set of problems which are well documented. It does not mean they would never shoot well, but normally a whole lot of $$$$$ must be put into them. Some shoot OK, but most need a lot of Gun Smithing to shoot as well as other less expensive rifles.

Also, your choice of using the 220Swift to learn l-o-n-g distance shooting creates an External Ballistic "handicap" that will keep you confused as to what is happening. The big problem is how "Wind" affects 22cal bullets in comparison to 30cal bullets. You might do everything exactly correct with the 220Swift and have a scattered group that "might" not be seen with your 30-06 and high Ballistic Coefficient bullets. The result is you could be mislead into thinking something was very wrong when no problem existed. You can end up trying to figure out a problem that isn't real.

No one likes to be told their rifle choice is poor for the task at hand. And I'm sure plenty of folks can list M70s that shoot some small groups. That is not what I'm talking about.

Of the rifles you listed, the 30-06 would be the best one to learn long distance shooting with.

Best of luck to you.