Let me start by saying I do not own or shoot a .17 HMR of any make or model, so I am not grinding ANY axe here.

Having said that I have an observation about the .17 HMR anyway.

for the past 5 years, our club has held a rimfire match on the first Saturday of every month. For the first 3 years I was match director at every match, and have kept an eye on the matches since then.

The course of fire requires shooters to fire one shot at each of 30 or more small circular pasters (1/2" diameter) at ranges of 25 to 100 yards. Hitting the paster counts "10", missing counts "0". There is a dot in the dead center of each paster, but it is used only to break ties just like the "X" ring in a standard target.

These matches are open to ANY rimfire rifle and ANY rimfire cartridge, inluding the high dollar match rifles and/or large diameter rimfire cartridges. They are fired from bench rest. No one has ever shot a .41 rimfire in them, but there have been many .22 Mags used, as well as the whole gamut of .22 LR guns shooting $10-$12 per box ammo.

Until the advent of .17 HMR in these matches about 12-to-16 months ago, no one had EVER fired a perfect score in one of them, despite using Eley Gold and similar ammo in Anschutz M-1813, Winchester 52, Remington M37, BSA Mark V Martini, and other similar rifles.

Now that the .17 HMR cartridge is commonly in use, perfect scores are common at these matches, with about 75% of the shooters hitting ALL of the pasters in every match!! Every match for the last 6 months has had to be decided by "X" count.

In fact, we are seeing the occasional match where scores such as 300-29 X are posted. It won't be long, I'm sure, 'til we will start seeing 300-30X scores.

And what are these shooters firing their super high scores through? Well, Marlins, Savages, some pretty ordinary, rather inexpensive rifles. That, we think, is great because it makes it much less of a high-dollar "spending game" and has people competing who never would before.

It has even gotten to the point where we are now setting up two classes in the matches: 1) "Any .17 HMR" and, 2) "Any Other Rimfire".

Any of you sage rat shooters or informal field plinkers who have been wondering if the .17 HMRs are really that much more accurate than the .22 rimfires might ponder that a bit....

You know up untill a couple of years ago I was as much of a skeptic about the 17hmr as anybody you'ed find. But after buying a CZ in the caliber, for the rifle and not the chambering. I must say I've made a complete 180, for once the media's hype over this new rimfire falls way short.

Terminal effect on game is OUTSTANDING far above the other rimfires. The 17hmr literally just turns critters off before they have a chance to hit the ground.
As you report accuracy has been nothing short of exceptonal.

I purchased a Ruger 77/17 some years ago and it shoots fairly well. I wanted to get better groups than the 7/8" groups at 100yds, so I glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. All that and absolutely no change. I bought the wife a Marlin 917V before Christmas and took it out last weekend and to my amazment it shot 9/16" group at a 100yds. with the first 5 shots out of the barrel. That was totally shocking to me a $190.00 gun out shoots the $400.00 gun, but thats Marlin for ya always built a great rimfire.

quote:

Originally posted by rem788:
I purchased a Ruger 77/17 some years ago and it shoots fairly well. I wanted to get better groups than the 7/8" groups at 100yds, so I glass bedded the action and free floated the barrel. All that and absolutely no change. I bought the wife a Marlin 917V before Christmas and took it out last weekend and to my amazment it shot 9/16" group at a 100yds. with the first 5 shots out of the barrel. That was totally shocking to me a $190.00 gun out shoots the $400.00 gun, but thats Marlin for ya always built a great rimfire.

LOL You gotta love those Rugers!

Don't feel bad I've owned enough Rugers to feel your pain.

Don't know about the 17hmr but I bought a Kimber Classic Varmint as soon as they came out with a 17 the Mach2. The first 5 shots out of the thing were one single hole approx .22. It continues to this day to be that accurate. It is by far the most accurate rifle I have ever fired and ALL it has had done to it is a Leupold 14x scope mounted. Phenomenal is all I can say. I have tried every available brand of ammo and they are all the same. The quality control must be terrific.

The heavier-barreled Marlins are a particularly good deal, I think. I was curious about their "select" barrels a few years ago and called them to discuss it. (They button-rifle their barrels, unlike most others who hammer-forge them.) "Select" barrels have their holes bored very close to center - harder than you'd think, and rarer. Those that aren't in the center go to the lathe and become thinner profiled "sporters," with some of the stress evident that you'd expect from a buttoned barrel without stress relief.

I suspect that they recognized the potential of the HMR and put the best barrels of both types to the most accurate platform.

Jaywalker

Alberta Canuck,
I complement you on such a well written piece.
Beryl

Thank you Beryl....

The one thing the Ruger has going for it is the rotary magazine, flush with the bottom of the stock. It doesn't get hung up on anything. Thats about the only plus I can think of.

.17 HMR's are AMAZING!!! When Im feeling pissed because of a streak of crappy shooting, I just get out my cheap 'ole Savage .17HMR. My frown soon turns to a smile.

Alberta Canuck: I have been shooting rimfires of every imagineable brand, model, style, type and caliber for 51 full years now!
I have, like I mentioned, owned and shot them all from Winchester 52's to 5mm Remingtons to Kimbers and Coopers and Anschutz's to Remington 40X's to 22 Magnums (including Anschutz 22 Magnums!) and the 17 HMR has simply become the KING of rimfires!
No other rimfire compares!
The 17 HMR so far outperforms the 22 Magnum in accuracy, lethality wise AND ballistically that I seldom take out any of my 22 Magnums anymore!
The amazing 17 HMR and its ballistics, trajectory and wind bucking ability are "one" thing - but the amazing accuracy of the 17 HMR is what puts the crown on the new rimfire Kings head!
The plethora of amazingly accurate 17 HMR Rifles I have seen first hand and shot just impresses me no end!
Long live the new King of rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I learn something every day. Now the Ruger is a POS since the rimfire only groups 7/8 in. at 100 yards! The 17HMR is a very surprising cartridge, have yet to see one that won't shoot. If only the ammo wasn't so damn expensive, I'd have one, just can't see paying more than I can load .223's for by a significant margin.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
I learn something every day. Now the Ruger is a POS since the rimfire only groups 7/8 in. at 100 yards! The 17HMR is a very surprising cartridge, have yet to see one that won't shoot. If only the ammo wasn't so damn expensive, I'd have one, just can't see paying more than I can load .223's for by a significant margin.

Take a chill pill did ANYBODY say that Rugers are piles of steaming dog poo.........YET

But I have found it to be rather disapointing that you can buy a particular make of rifle comparable to any ruger model but at half price and 9 times out of 10 the cheap rifle will be markedly more accurate than the RUGER

Krochus: My all factory original Ruger 77/17 V/T has shot groups (5 shots at 100 yards) that have measured as small as .502"!
Now these groups were shot with a modestly powered Varmint style scope (Weaver KT-15)!
By the way the LARGEST group (5 shots at 100 yards) I have shot with this Rifle to date measured .831"!
I have as yet to shot a group (5 shots at 100 yards) with this Ruger 77/17 V/T that measured anywhere near 1.000"!
My Ruger is impressively accurate and I could not be happier with it in that regard!
Now, I may have to inquire here, but maybe you are talking about other Ruger rimfires in other calibers (like 22 LR and 22 Magnum???).
I have seen three Ruger Model 77/17 V/T Models shoot so far and they all have extremely well!
Now in the past I have also seen some Ruger 77/22's and 77/22 Magnums and 77 Hornets that DID shoot rather poorly. But I have as yet to see a Ruger 77/17 that shot poorly.
Could you clarify your contention for me?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hey, maybe this is a good spot to advertise a batch of 17HMRs for sale..

I have two Marlin Heavy Barrels, and a Ruger 77/17 VT....plus a New England HandiRifle...

the Ruger shoots as good as the Marlin's, or the Marlin's shoot as bad as the Ruger... depending on how you want to look at it...

My beef with the cartridge is ammo prices... I am going with a Rem 17 Fireball to replace my needs for a 17 HMR...

I can download it to 17 HMR velocities... and load it up to close to 3800 fps...or even down to 17 Mach 2 standards...

It is an accurate cartridge.... .and if the ammo prices were more along the lines of $7.00 a box or so, they would sell a boatload more of them.. and they sell a lot now...

There is a pretty good test written up at Varmint Al's. More data than you can stand and a lot of pictures.... paper groups and critters too.

Varmint Al's 17 HMR Test Shooting

Well I guess I got a few fired up, didn't mean to. I was just saying that is the best I can get out of my Ruger. To this day I wouldn't sell that Ruger for the world. The gun feels well in my hands and shoulders well. I know of another guy in town that has one and that is the best he gets out of his is 7/8". It was just shocking to me that the Marlin shoots as well as it does. Thats all I was commenting on. When I leave the house to go play on the weekends that Ruger is the one gun that goes with me everywhere. As far as accuracy goes the Marlin wins hands down.

Rem788: Are the scope powers on your Ruger and your friends Marlin about the same?
What power scope are you using, to achieve your 7/8" grouping there at 100 yards!
7/8" groups from a rimfire at 100 yards is "pretty good" shooting in my opinion!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yes VG they have 10X scopes on them. Acctually the Marlin is my wifes. I know tht 7/8" groups for a rimfire at a 100yds is good. I was just trying to get the Ruger to shoot a little better and it didn't happen. No big thing it still kills dogs dead so i'm still happy.
I never called the Ruger junk in any way and never would. Just the Marlin out shoots it.
P.S. the scopes are Tasco Mil-Dots 2.5-10X.

My buddy, Brett, and I bought, a few years back, two of the cheap Savage .17HMRs with the hardwood stock and heavy blued barrel. His is a righty and mine's a lefty. After "trigger jobs" that are on the rimfire forum and glass bedding, accuracy is fantastic. We bought them so we could just buy loaded ammo when out after PDs. With its recent price increase, we may have to spend a little more. Thing is, we have so much fun with them, we always take them along.

VarmintGuy wrote:

quote:

The 17 HMR so far outperforms the 22 Magnum in...lethality

VG must have known I needed a good laugh today.

Muzzle 50 yards 75 yards 100 yards

245 186 161 138

312 220 184 155

The top line is for the .17 HMR with the 17 grain V-Max (CCI's loading) while the bottom is for CCI's 40 grain JHP .22 Magnum offering. At no point on the chart does the .17 match or exceed the energy of the .22 Magnum. Granted, there's more to lethality than numbers, but with all the subjective stuff aside, at least the numbers don't lie.

Much of my shooting with the .22 Magnum is for 'coons called in at night, and I did give the .17 HMR a long, fair run at the same job. But for someone accustomed to the animal being dumped in its tracks (most shots are at 40-80 yards), I could not get used to something running after a shot to the chest with little or no indication of a hit. Granted, most would pile up in 25 or 30 yards, but in brushy terrain, this can mean that retrieval becomes difficult if not impossible. The use of the Hornady 20 grain XTP improves the round a bit, but it still does not match the .22 Magnum in my applications.


As to accuracy, yes, the .17 HMRs have given me terrific results, but my .22 Magnums shoot extremely well, and to that end, the HMR does not "so far outperform" the .22 Magnum, either. Sub-MOA is sub-MOA, and it won't matter to the next 'possum if the load averaged 5/8th or 3/4" at the last range session...

As to trajectory, yes, I'll agree, the HMR does shoot flatter. But for my use -- and for the actual effective range of the cartridges for the game I pursue -- the difference is minimal. If I need to shoot something at 200 yards, I'll use a centerfire that delivers ample punch and not something that hits with little more energy than a spring piston air rifle.

Lastly, another benefit of the old .22 Magnum: ammo runs around $3 cheaper per box...

But hey, if I lived in good prairie dog country or an area that harbored picket pins, I may have an entirely different appreciation for the .17 HMR.

Ireload: I went over to Varmint Al's nifty web site using your link. I used to visit his site very often but I have not been there in a while.
I was perusing his info and charts and tests of velocities and accuracy regarding the 17 HMR, and my jaw dropped at one entry!
He was shooting one of his nifty 17 HMR Rifles for accuracy testing and he happened to mention that he set his scope at 18 power - I assumed it was some kind of 6x18 variable scope. I was wrong - he was doing accuracy testing with a Weaver V-24 (variable 6x24 power!) scope and he had arbitrarily (without explanation!) set the scope at 18 power!
Well what baffles me is why in the world would he do this?
Give up 25% of his scopes magnification while trying to test for accuracy is like.... well its just baffling to me.
Again this is not a criticism of Varmint Al - he doesn't need any of that from me. Its more of an observation of a genius that is having a brain fart.
No explanation I can dream about would rationalize this to me.
If you have more scope power on a Rifle and are doing load testing (accuracy checking!) then USE THE POWER!
I took great interest in his accuracy testing of the 17 HMR and his results were as impressive as mine have been.
Long live the 17 HMR!

Rem788: Thanks for the info on the scopes it helps me put your contentions in perspective. 7/8" groups with a rimfire at 100 yards with a 10X scope is good shooting in my mind.
Thanks again.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy wrote:

quote:

He was shooting one of his nifty 17 HMR Rifles for accuracy testing and he happened to mention that he set his scope at 18 power - I assumed it was some kind of 6x18 variable scope. I was wrong - he was doing accuracy testing with a Weaver V-24 (variable 6x24 power!) scope and he had arbitrarily (without explanation!) set the scope at 18 power!
Well what baffles me is why in the world would he do this?

I could be way off base here, but I'd guess he was dealing with mirage and that 18x was the highest magnification he could use without dealing with excessive heat waves.

In my home state of Texas, mirage is always a concern and often a problem.

Bobby Tomek: Jokes on you buddy! You make my case for me - in several of your contentions (admissions?)!
And ANY perceived lack of lethality regarding the 17 HMR is due to your inability to shoot it well!
I have been using the 22 Magnum for so long and am so familiar with it that when I first confronted MYSELF with the facts regarding the increased lethality of the 17 HMR OVER the 22 Magnum - I was doubting my own results!
For the last 4 years now, I have been shooting small game, Varmints (all manner of Varmints!) and Wild Turkeys with my 17 HMR's!
All categories of small game, Varmints (up to and including Coyotes) and Wild Turkeys, fall quicker for me when using the 17 HMR than when I was using the 22 Magnum!
Startling as that may be to you and your Cooning experiences, I have proven the better lethality of the 17 HMR to myself so many times over and over on so many types of game - and not just by a gnats ass - by impressive results!
For instance - I shot a big Boar Badger at a Leica lasered 173 yards with my 17 HMR Ruger Rifle, and killed it INSTANTLY! It did not wag or wobble even once! It died at its burrow entrance and did not even attempt a half turn or a back down into its hole! This shot was witnessed and then duplicated by my good friend Jack Veness from Yelm, Washington! You see after we ventured forth and took pictures of this huge Badger and returned to our shooting benches ANOTHER Badger came out of a den within 20 yards of the first Badger and Jack proceeded to "hammer" that Badger with his 17 HMR Rifle!
I have shot Badgers with 22 Magnums on several occassions and NEVER had a one shot kill! Let alone trying one at that range (173 yards!). I know better than to trust the 22 Magnum out there at that range on that big and that tough a Varmint!
On to big Rock Chucks and Porcupines! I have killt many large Rock Chucks at ranges out to 150 yards with my 17 HMR! The increased accuracy and the increased lethality of the 17 HMR has been REPEATEDLY proven to me on these more numerous targets of my intentions! Great shot placement on big Chucks is a MUST for a rimfire kill! Easier to do with the more accurate 17 HMR! Pooh-pooh that better accuracy with the 17 HMR, if you choose, but for people who shoot lots of game the better accuracy and flatter trajectory along with the much better wind bucking ability of the 17 HMR is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED and put to good use in the field!
Porcupines (adults) are tough to kill! I have shot them with broadheads, Nosler Partitions, ammo piercing bullets, Rifles, pistols, shotguns - the gamut! Porcupines are tough to kill! I think it has a lot to do with their thick bodies and small lungs and hearts. They do not move fast and do not need large lungs or hearts. Their brains are very small as well!
I have shot at least 8 of these Varmints with my 17 HMR and it FAR exceeds the lethality of any other rimfire I have ever used on them.
Coyotes, again, I give the nod to the 17 HMR! And I do so with only having killt two Coyotes so far with my 17 HMR's.
I have shot Raccoons with my 17 HMR's and again give the lethality title to the 17 HMR - hands down NO contest in this category (size Varmint)!
Again aim for the most lethal spot exposed on a Coon - and HIT IT with a 17 HMR and your results will be the same as mine - 17 HMR the winnah!
If you are of the mind set that the ONLY factor in lethality on various types of game is energy - then you are simply inexperienced (I almost said stupid there but I contained myself!)! Your inexperience will catch up to you eventually there Bobby Tomek and you may or may not realize your error?
It don't matter - if you are content shooting Coons with a second rate rimfire - have at it!
But don't try to make the 22 Magnum into something it isn't!
I and quite a number of other rimfire shooters have expereinced the enlightened and impressive performance of the 17 HMR!
Easy for you to say there Bobb Tomek that if you want to shoot something out at 200 yards you would not try it with your 22 Magnum you would opt for a centerfire! Well on many ranches and areas of ranches I Hunt Prairie Dogs, Ground Squirrels and all the other manner of Varmints there, I am only allowed to use "rimfires"!
And when that situation is at hand I choose the Champion of the rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Without hesitation!
The 22 Magnum IS NOT an inherently accurate round - not to the extent the 17 HMR is anyway!
And again the jokes on you Bobby Tomek if you think the comparative prices of 17 HMR ammo and 22 Magnum ammo is $3.00's different!
I JUST came from several big chain stores and when comparing these cartridges with similar "bullets" in the two calibers, there is VERY little difference in their costs!
Sure you can find 22 Magnum ammo with lead slugs that are $3.00 cheaper than the V-Max type bullets that are common in the 17 HMR's! Thats comparing apples to oranges.
If you want to shoot beer cans with your 22 Magnum and use cheap lead slugs to do so - have at it Bobby! You are wasting money to begin with there!
I am talking lethality, along with the better wind bucking and flatter trajectory and increased lethality of the 17 HMR as to why it is so far superior to the 22 Magnum!
Not just saving a few cents and settling for a lesser cartridge!
Long live the new King of Rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Bobby Tomek: Let me correct you AGAIN - if you don't mind?
Mirage does NOT go away when you dial down the power of ones scope!
Its still there!
The peceived movement (mirage) of the target in front of your crosshairs does NOT disappear - its still there and in fact is easier to deal with (shoot better groups!) at the higher power. True the bullseye or the target rings or what ever you may be shooting at may seem out of focus at the higher power (on mirage type days!) but that can be dealt with (or ignored!) and the fact is all things being equal (and they are when shooting the same Rifle and ammo etc! but just at different scope powers) you can still shoot more accurately at the higher power!
Otherwise wouldn't the NBRSA folks all use variable power scopes???
They don't, by the way, in case you have not been to a sanctioned BR Match - variable scopes are as rare as hens teeth there.
The area of Montana I live in Bobby uses, as a drawing card, for potential real estate buyers this promo: "we have more sun here than in Texas"! 320 days of bright sun here! I know heat and mirage distorts an objects true position "slightly" and causes them to appear out of focus - so be that! Dealing with it at the higher powers is the best way to retain best accuracy or make the most "hits"!
A little more time at the bench and you could prove this to yourself as well there Bobby!
Just because you dial your scope down so the wavering effects of "mirage" are not as noticeable - does NOT mean they are not affecting your aiming!
My advice (and again it took me a long time to be able to convince myself of this!) is to ALWAYS shoot for accuracy at the highest power available to you!
Deal with the mirage there at the highest power and your groups will be better and your accuracy testing more truthful.
Same in the field! I to went through a "phase" where I thought I was "neutralizing" mirage by dialing down my variables power - I wasn't! When I began reading the "waves" and dealing with them at the highest powers I began making more long range hits on those days and times of days when mirage was present!
You simply, can shoot better, at higher scope powers - all other components being equal - mirage or not.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG-For starters, genius, there are NO lead slug .22 magnum rounds other than the copper washed and ill-fated Dynapoint. And yes, mirage is LESS NOTICEABLE at lower magnifications. Anyone who's done extensive shooting as opposed to extensive preaching knows this.

But I won't argue with you. After all, you're the genius who believes (and argues!) that a bullet rises above the axis of the bore when science proves that it is physically impossible. Remember that argument?

And when you posted the quote below, it once again PROVES that you have no comprehension of anything you read.

"If you are of the mind set that the ONLY factor in lethality on various types of game is energy - then you are simply inexperienced (I almost said stupid there but I contained myself!)! Your inexperience will catch up to you eventually there Bobby Tomek and you may or may not realize your error?"

After all, VG, did not my opening post in this thread state: "Granted, there's more to lethality than numbers"??????????????????????????????????

Unlike you, I wouldn't call anyone "stupid." But what the incessant ramblings of your own posts say about you is beyond my control...

Bobby Tomek: Along with being "inexperienced" you are also a LIAR it seems!
Unless of course you can prove your outrageous and stupid claim regarding me and your imaginary magic bullets!
I challenge you, oh sage, to cite the passage where I contend such stupidity as you claim!
When you loose an argument there, small man, have the courage, please, not to bring lies and slander into your next batch of diatribes!
Along with your contention regarding the energy comparison you also stated "numbers don't lie" (in the same paragraph) so in effect yes I read and understood you to say the 22 Magnum IS superior to the 17 HMR lethality wise.
Its not!
I base that on extensive in the field and at the range first hand observations.
Then, again, for clarification Bobby - based on my learned and experienced (real in the field experiences!) observations I contend that the 17 HMR IS more lethal on Varmints, small game and Wild Turkeys than the 22 Magnum!
Or, do you have extensive, in the field experiences with both the 17 HMR and the 22 Magnum on all manner of Varmints, small game and Wild Turkeys (like I do) and your extensive experiences somehow "disprove" my contentions.
So there Bobby, you have been called a liar and a small man (for making up irrelevent blather!) - prove me wrong!
Somehow, as so often happens with you small minded trolls, I think you will, AGAIN, try to avert the discourse with more snideness and innuendo that is not pertinent (like your lies regarding your imagined "magic bullet theory").
And in fact, Bobby, you are small and not pertinent but I take great glee in correcting you and look forward to doing it some more!
To try to deny the many factors where the 17 HMR outperforms the 22 Magnum (like in the 17's better velocity, better wind bucking ability, better accuracy and better (flatter!) trajectory) is like trying to deny that the sun comes up in the east!
Good luck there Bobby!
I wonder then Bobby. just WHY the 17 HMR's are outselling the 22 Magnum arms by a factor of 15 and 20 to 1???
Is most EVERYONE mistaken then about the superior performance the 17 HMR produces???
Looking forward to you not being able to prove your slander, there small Bobby!
He-he!
Long live the new King of Rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy wrote: "Bobby Tomek: Along with being "inexperienced" you are also a LIAR it seems!
Unless of course you can prove your outrageous and stupid claim regarding me and your imaginary magic bullets!"


VarmintGuy-
You don't know me from Adam, and I'd suggest you never again call me a liar. EVER.

And to clear things up, on December 14 of 2006 you, VarmintGuy, wrote:

"Bullets can easily and often DO rise!"

I rest my case.

VarmintGuy-By the way, I've saved the thread in question its entirety in case you decide to use the edit feature -- as I suspect someone like you would try and do.

I'm not putting myself into this contest, but I will say. I've got both and I will say the 17 HMR is a great target rifle, and that is about it. Give me a 22 mag or hornet for the small stuff, and a 222 or 223 for anything bigger (Varmint). Sorry but the 17 HMR is a wounding wonder!

505ED

Ed,

I agree with you 100% that's why God gave us the .222 Rem!

Aleko

I get a kick out of these people who just assume that it's legal everywhere to shoot centerfire rifles at squirrels, beavers, groundhogs, rabbits coyotes and other small game animals.

Because if it's not a rimfire it sure ain't legal here.

Hey AC, Why do you think the 17HMR is "more accurate"? Is it all in the Case dimensions, a specific excellent match with the Powder, extremely consistant Bullets, etc.?

Nice observation and a good report concerning what you all have seen first-hand at your club.

VarmintGuy wrote: "So there Bobby, you have been called a liar and a small man (for making up irrelevent blather!) - prove me wrong!"
----

I DID prove you wrong. But you came here, looked at my post which showed your statment and promptly left. A REAL MAN would have admitted his error and apologized for calling someone a liar and for accusing them of slander.

In fact, you, sir, are the only one guilty of slander and lying.

Now to find that ignore feature on this board...

My Marlin 17HMR that costs 17 cents to pull the trigger:
Here I am with a .223 and a 17HMR in 2004:



My 17HRM has a little more than half the range of my .223 with handloads>

.224" blem or surplus bullet ..... 3.0 cents
small rifle primer ...... 1.5 cents
13 gr Blue Dot .......3.7 cents
Wear and tear on my .223 brass ..... 0.1 cents
________________________________
Total cost to pull the .223 trigger = ..... 8.3 cents


Here I am back at the same pole in 2006 with the same .223 and the same 17HMR, but the 17 stayed in the car in 2006.




What does it all mean?
If you don't reload the 17HRM works well, but if you reload, get almost twice the range for half the money with .223 handloads.

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
I get a kick out of these people who just assume that it's legal everywhere to shoot centerfire rifles at squirrels, beavers, groundhogs, rabbits coyotes and other small game animals.

Because if it's not a rimfire it sure ain't legal here.

Well Krochus... thank God most of us aren't in Arkansas!

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
My Marlin 17HMR that costs 17 cents to pull the trigger:
Here I am with a .223 and a 17HMR in 2004:



My 17HRM has a little more than half the range of my .223 with handloads>

.224" blem or surplus bullet ..... 3.0 cents
small rifle primer ...... 1.5 cents
13 gr Blue Dot .......3.7 cents
Wear and tear on my .223 brass ..... 0.1 cents
________________________________
Total cost to pull the .223 trigger = ..... 8.3 cents


Here I am back at the same pole in 2006 with the same .223 and the same 17HMR, but the 17 stayed in the car in 2006.




What does it all mean?
If you don't reload the 17HRM works well, but if you reload, get almost twice the range for half the money with .223 handloads.

that fence post and field look awfully darn familiar...

Seafire,
Is that pole surrounded with snow right now?

I know it is ~5,000 feet, and much lower than Mt. Hood.

quote:

Originally posted by jstevens:
If only the ammo wasn't so damn expensive, I'd have one, just can't see paying more than I can load .223's for by a significant margin.

Want something that is as acurate as the HMR, shots flatter than the HMR, has twice the muzzle energy of the HMR, as much retained energy @ 185 yds as the HMR has @ the muzzle & can be reloaded for less than $.15 a round?

Convert a 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum to centerfire. Load 6.8grs of 2400 behind a 33gr V-Max. 2450 FPS & 1/2" 5 shot groups @ 100 yds, 1 1/4" 5 shot groups @ 200 yds.

Varnitguy...what catridges doyou use in your 17HMR? One shot kill on a badger is pretty impressive with that small projectile.
My son is saving for a 22 mag, but i told him to get the 17 HMR if he has his heart set on a rimfire (I went from 22LR to .223 rem..I think he should save a little more money and get a stevens 200 in .223..but it is his money).