Advantages? Short rifles, lighter rifles, less recoil, less muzzle blast, heavier bullets, less powder consumed, longer barrel life, higher BC's, higher sectional densities, etc, etc

Here is a comparision for the 260 vs 25-06, using factory ballistic numbers.

25-06 120 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2990 fps

+/- 3" point blank range - 289 yards

300 yards - 2291 fps, 1398 ft-lbs

260 Rem 140 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2750 fps

+/- 3" PBR - 274 yards

300 yards - 2213 fps, 1522 ft-lbs

or...

260 Rem 125 gr. Nosler Partition @ 2875 fps

+/- 3" PBR - 283 yards

300 yards - 2275 fps, 1437 ft-lbs

If you shoot 300 yards or less, the 260 is a much better choice.

Whilst I am the first to champion this cause (allthough IMHO the 6.5x55 is the thinking mans 25-06) the 25-06 data seems a touch slow and the 260 a touch optimistic.

Tod,
I've got to agree with 1894. I have both and my data shows that maiximun loads for the 25-06 are about 200fps higher than my 260. Thats using a 120gr. Par. in the 25 and a 120gr. BT in the 260. IMHO I just don't see much of a comparison. While both are damn good cartridges and both have worked well for me on deer size game, I'll choose the 25-06 anytime the shots are on the long side.

those are factory ballistics, but you can load the 120 grain ballistic tip in the 260 to 3000fps. todbartell should have shown the 129 sst's at 2950fps. that is a mean and efficient round. i think it trumps the 25-06's hot loads by a hair, but then again i am biased to the 260. i think that if you are going to get a hot 25 in standard length get a 257 weatherby, then there wouldn't be anything to talk about.

tod,

You're doing what Remington (and Winchester) always does when they introduce a new round: compare it to a slow loading of another cartridge. You can get 3100fps with a 120gr. bullet in the .25-06 (@52k psi).

Remember when Remington introduced the 7STW? It was a hell of a lot faster than the 7mmRemMag. Now, the 7STW is being loaded more sedately, and they compare the new 7mmRUM to it.

Also, the .260 Rem. operates at a much higher pressure (52K psi for the .25-06 vs. 58K psi for the .260Rem.), so the comparison isn't completely objective. A high pressure round will always look good against a lower pressure round on paper.

George

Let's talk apples for apples here. 6.5-06 140 spitzer 2961. 129 hornady 3177. These vel's from a 24 inch barrel. Game, Set, Match!!

At first glance it looks like the 260Rem is being compared to the 257 Roberts here. Those are factory ballistics though.

I have a friend looking for a deer gun and he's kind of set on a short actions. I suggested 257Rob and the 7mm08. I think I'll throw in the 260Rem also.

Play it any way you wish,but in my opinion there is but one projectile in the bigger 25's for killing critters. It is the 100gr XLC and the 25-06 can launch it comfortably,at 3300fps. My 23" 25-284 will push them at 3400fps.

The trouble with the higher BC 6.5's is their bearing surface and that costs 'em speed,especially in a 308Win based hull.

The above 25-06 combo,requires less than 2" of height at 100yds,to be zeroed at 250. Makes 1636ft lbs energy at 300yds and will retain over 1000ft lbs beyond the 600yd line.

As an aside,it's bullet is nearly as fast at 600yds(2198fps)as either of the 260 loads at 300yds. The difference is less than 100fps,despite the yardage being DOUBLED.

It don't kick,it is suprisingly flat and a literal hammer on Game. No flies on the 25-06,unless one wishes to castrate it with fuzzy math.

The 25 wins in initial velocity and retained velocity both. Initial energy and retained energy both. Will win the trajectory curve handily also,as well as wind drift. The 25-06 has more muscle in all areas.............

I am partial to the 25-06 (see other threads recently) but also like the 260 although I don't have one.

I guess the ultimate question is, "Does the deer or the paper target know the difference?"

To each his own, have fun.

I remain a devout follower of the diminutive 7-08.

But for the ease of placing a capable projectile on Game,even at "longish" distances,the fast 25's are hard to beat and the 25-06 a grand over the counter option.

I'd of never muttered a word,had the data not been so skewed.................

I have both a .25-06 and .260 Rem. I like both of them very much. For lighter bullets (100 gr and lower) the .25-06 is better. For heavier bullets, the .260 Rem gets the nod.

In the real world, however, the hair that is being split here is so fine that the shooter and game animal would never really see the difference.

I just checked out http://accuratearms.com/loaddata.html

, and did a comparison between their loads. Both have 24" barrels

25-06

100 gr. Nosler BT, 55 grs. AA3100, 3283 fps

115 gr. Nosler Part., 52.8 grs. AA3100, 3059 fps

120 gr. Sierra SPBT, 52.0 grs. AA3100, 2978 fps

260 Rem

100 gr. Nosler Part., 48.5 grs. AA4350, 3279 fps

120 gr. Nosler BT, 44.5 grs. AA4350, 2948 fps

125 gr. Nosler Part., 45.0 grs. AA4350, 2937 fps

140 gr. Sierra SPBT, 43.5 grs. AA4350, 2743 fps

Seems pretty close to me. Advantage ~ 260 Remington

I have a .260 in my left hand, a .25-06 in my right. A grey tabby at 276 yds on the left, a Manx at 284 yds on the right, both stationary. Both guns sound as one.......advantage, DigitalDan!!!!! That's right! I'm ambidexterous! I can get pussys with both hands! I like splitting hairs, but maybe a different kind. Good Day gentlemen.

Tod

I think you are right,if I had a choice i'de buy a 260 over a 25-06 anyday or better still a 7mm-08.

Dont get me wrong the 25-06 is a great cartridge too, I owned one for several years but it wont do anymore than a 260 will & the 260 will do it with less noise,muzzle blast,recoil,the advantages of a short action,& you may even get a slight increase in accuracy.

I had a tendancy to short stroke my 25-06 on fast follow up shots & would end up with an empty chamber or a jammed action,this never happened with my 243 or 7mm-08,maybee thats why I like short actions so much.

Tumbo

Gentlemen, IMHO you are looking at the wrong (short yardage) end of the scale. Stretch the yardage out to 500+ give me a 260 any day. I have shot the 260 out to 1200 yards with good sucess using the 123 Lapua and the 142 Sierra MK. I have never seen a 25-06 on a 1000 yard firing line. Plenty of 6.5's and 30's and few 5.56's. If you want to go long the 6.5 will kick the 25's butt. JMHO

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.......RiverRat

Counterpoint.

Once you get that far,hitting isn't the only trick but remaining energy/impact velocity is(as far as Game). Both will kill paper at any distance,but a line must(should) be drawn in the sand for critters.

But for shits and giggles,a lowly 100gr Ballistic Tip(BC .393) outta the 25-06 at 3300fps,stays supersonic to the 1150yd line. Not too shabby. It's doin' about 1090-ish fps at 1200yds,depending upon atmospheric conditions.

Point bein',if I was concerned about crunching stuff on the far side of 600yds,I'd not abort the 25-06 and embrace the 260. I'd be looking for far more energy retention and a Big 30 would be my first stop,but that is a horse of another color.

As an aside,the 25-06 as mentioned prior,will easily retain 1000ft lbs of energy to 600yds and keep impact velocities above 2150fps at same. Neither of those figures are to be sneezed at IMHO.

But coming full circle,if you wish for a light/handy rifle,that will deal death with aplomb out to a goodly ways,the 25-06 isn't a bad place to start,when everything is weighed in accordance.

Your mileage may vary...................

(had to patch some poor phrasing)

[ 03-01-2003, 05:58: Message edited by: Big Stick ]

My mileage improved with a 260......
Model Seven, 18 inch SS barrel.... 110 grn GS Custom HV @ 3184....BTW, that 18 inch barrel is a factory barrel and GSC builds wicked bullets....

Might I assume it isn't your 1100yd Deer Rifle either?(grin)

No flies on the 260. However,it remains an uphill battle for a vastly smaller capacity case to propel heavier bullets with enough meaning,to negate the advantages inherent in a bigger motor pushing lesser weight.

That remains the crux of this discussion............

I built my oldest son who is now 10,his own 223Ackley based upon a S/S Model Seven and wrapped it in a McMillan Mountain Rifle patterned stock.

Then built him a S/S 7-08 upon a like action and tucked within a McMillan Model Seven patterned stock.

His third rifle I just completed and I'm not sure he's gonna get it(grin). It is based on a S/S 700 short and is in 25-284 and tucked within another Mcmillan Mountain Rifle pattern.

I poked Leupold 6x42's on all of them,as they are easiest for him to use.

Looking forward to starting projects for my 6yr old daughter next..............

Big Stick..I like your projects....How about starting one for me???? I'm thinking I'm your long lost son! I'll be wanting a .257 RobAI or a 25-284. 26" tube slightly longish throat and a 1x9 twist and oh yeah please put a variable on mine. Zeiss Conquest 4.5x14 will do fine.
thanks,
#1 LLson

Dave,

The Bob Improved is a good cartridge,though my preference is the 25-284 and by a landslide. That due to my penchant for Remington actions.

The 25-284 is a great fit in a short action 700/Model Seven/600 and it's(2.800"-ish mag box).

The Bob is much better housed in a longer mag box(in my opinion)and that leads one to the long action in the Remington. Doubly so with a long throat and a desire for the longer/heavier projectiles within that diameter.

Upon it(long action 700),my preference is the 257Wby as it is simply sinister. No flies on the 25-06AI either,but on a long action I'd just as soon grab the 257Wby and go whole hog.

Back to your request,I struggle within my means to twist up all my cravings and stuff that I think the kids should have. Should I scratch that lucky Lottery Ticket I'd most certainly keep you in mind(grin)................

Is Rem. the only brand chambering the 260 rem at this time without looking at custome? I'm too lazy to research it myself.

I highly doubt a deer at 300 yards can tell the difference betwixt the two after you nail him in the chest!! Really.

I'll differ on that,with you.

I'm a very firm believer in the impressive merits of a superbly constructed bullet,arriving at high speed and in a good anatomical location. The effects are very impressive,as a minimum.

The 25-06 has that in spades,over the 260...........

Nice twist on things.

The debate has ranged from the muzzle to 1200yds and now it is back to a most sedate distance(300yds).

As I am sure you have gathered upon other Forums,I am an 85gr .243" XLC fan. That bullet is beyond compare,within that diameter,in my opinion.

It is simply excellent and will give the 260 a good run for it's loot(a point you failed to make).

But within this scenario,the 25-06 brings a coupla things to the table,that neither the 243 nor the 260 can match or exceed.

The first is case capacity,the second impact velocity/impact energy. Both are realized at the muzzle and at 300yds.

Case in point: Grant the .243" 85gr XLC a 3400fps initial launch speed,via the 243Win(stiff load). It impacts at 2650fps and 1325ft lbs of energy at 300yds. That while realizing a trajectory drop of 2.76",utilizing a 250yd zero.

Opposing it is the .257" 100gr XLC at 3300fps outta the 25-06. That bullet strikes at 2710fps at 300yds and 1630ft lbs of energy. It also arrives a smidge flatter in trajectory.

In it's(25cal 100gr XLC) favor is BC and projectile weight. Those attributes trump the 243 at longer distances,as it does the 260.

In a short action,I'll take my beloved 25-284,for precisely the same reasons,plus a little velocity increase across the board.

The 25cal leaves faster,hits faster and has the energy on it's side. All with mild recoil and superb accuracy as added attributes.

The spin on things changes little,as the 25 finishes first in all categories........

Interesting discussion on thse cartridges merits. All that i know is that watching silohuette matchs the 6.5/308 with matchkings rarely ever failed to knock over the 500meter rams. Cannot say that for most other cartridges.

I like to hedge my bets. I got both!



Dave

Neither the .25-06 nor the .260 should really be used on game larger than deer. For deer sized and smaller game, they both have similar ranges, similar energies, and similar trajectories (close enough to not matter in the field anyway). Neither of them recoil much, and game bullet selection for both calibers is ideal.

My wife uses a .25-06, my daughter uses a .260. I myself generally use a .300 Win Mag, but their deer die just as dead as mine do. Their rifles shoot about as flat as mine, and with all three of us, the shooters' skill is more limiting than the cartridges' potency in regards to maximum effective range.

Guys,

I've had both. One of my first rifles was one of the original Mod.700ADLs chambered in .25-06. Great shooter but it had that safety issue that plagued some at that time. Being young and foolish, I sold it, wish I hadn't. I now have a Mod7 in .260. Shoots 120gr Nosler BTs into teeny groups. Is it better ballistically than the .25-06? Probably not. Is it better for ME? Yes, because I shoot it well and have great confidence in it. With the right bullet(stressing this point), I wouldn't hesitate to kill moose under ideal conditions. I don't do that as I have better calibers for the job. Comparing the .260 to the .25-06 is interesting but out to a couple of hundred yards, I don't think there's much, if any, difference.

Joe

The light/handy rifle is the reason I have built three 25-284's on Rem short actions.

It is a 25-06 +P,in a short action. You get your cake and eat it too..................

It is a lot simpler than you guys make it sound with all that hype and quoting of the balistic charts..

I found out years ago that the case that is the biggest and holds the most powder wins everytime on the charts..In other words any way you cut it the big dog sleeps on the porch and gets the bone.

Both the 25-06 and the 260 are good rounds, no doubt of that, but comparing them is good for converstation but has little to do with anything else....If you come right down to it there is so little difference in all cartridges from the 260 to the 30-06 to get excited about if you stick it in somethings heart.

I would simply state that minimized trajectory and wind influences are a good thing. As are higher impact velocities and retained energies.

Would also comment that all of those attributes working in harmony are noticeable and welcomed by me. Further,I'd say that betwixt the 260 and the 30-06,some do nicer things than others and there are strengths and weaknesses.

I've found placement easiest to control in a cartridge that exhibits the above positive virtues and don't view every chambering the same light..................

Abusive may not be the right word to describe the 25-06, but it sure is alot louder than a 260 Rem.

As I stated before, if you use X bullets, the old standby mimimums for caliber and bullet weight can be thrown out the window. But most shooters don't use them, maybe due to factory loads or rumors of bad accuracy. They may pick up a box of Cor-Lokts or maybe Ballistic Tips, or Sierra GameKings. With these loads, the 260's milder velocity will lead to better bullet performance and better killing power. I prefer a Partition for most hunting, but these are too expensive for many hunters. But it is simple, the mild velocity of the 260, teamed with good ballistic co-efficients and sectional densities of it's bullets, shoot flat enough and pack enough wallop to 300 yards. Same can't be said for the 25-06 Rem.

"shoot flat enough and pack enough wallop to 300 yards. Same can't be said for the 25-06 Rem."

Now THAT'S funny! Pack enough wallop for what, a deer? If that's the animal you're referring to, you are in error, tremendously so. Where do you get this misinformation?

If I had my druthers I'll pick the 260 over the
25. For all practicle purposes... killing deer out past 400 yards a 6.5 120 or 140 will kill just as well as a 25-06. In fact, my Nosler cook
book says the 260 shoot a 120 flatter than a 25/120.
As far as the big case winning out every time.
Target shooters have found out long ago the merits of the 6.5 caliber that it matches the 30 cal mags in a 284 size case. In fact at 1200 yards it passes them up with the 142.

I would choose the 260 because i think that 140gr bullet at modest velocities is a better killer than the 25-06 with regular bullets out to 300yds. how many would use a 25-06 with 120's on moose if they had a 260 or 6.5 swede in the closet available. that is where i think the difference is. i shot a black bear with the 260 this year and believe my wife's 25-06 would have killed it just as dead, but i wanted a little insurance on penetration.