Even though these two rounds fire bullets differing by only .007 inches in diameter, they are disigned for different purposes and have a range of applications that overlap. The difference has little to do with case capacity and everything to do with rifling twist rates.

The 25-06 has a 1 in 10 inch rate, while the 260 is 1 in 9. The 25-06 does a better job stabilizing short, light bullets and the 260 is better with long, heavy bullets. Hence the 25-06 uses 60 to 120 grainers, and the 260 uses 85 to 160 grainers.

As a long range varmint rifle the 25-06 wins hands down and it is still good for deer. Really, its competition is the samller 243 Win and 6MM Rem. They are all 3 equivalent for varmints, with the edge on deer going to the 25-06.

The 260 is good on varmints with 85 and 95 grain bullets, and very good for hunting deer, and is still adequate for even larger game. Just as the 25-06 compares down in caliber, the 260 compares up with the 7-08 and .308 Win.

If you want a great, but simple, project get a custom barrel for a 25-06 with a 1 in 9 twist rate and get hawk bullets to make you some 140 gr .257's. Keep the throat short, and don't be afraid to seat the 140s deeply, as the case has plenty of unused capacity. The varmint bullets will be overstabilized, but this is not a problem with good, concentric bullets and you will be within 100 fps of the 270 Win with the 140 at the muzzle, and equal to it a 200 yards.

Sabot,

I'll forgive your misguidedness, because you are from Virginia and that is a good place to be from. My world started out there, as most of my family still lives there, and have been there since 1607.

However if the 6.5 bore is not for long range, of people who compete at 600 to 1000 yd target shooting, why is the 6.5 bore so popular?
I don't think the 25 bore has been that popular at all on that circuit.

Also check out how many long range target bullets are available in 25 bore and then sit down ( you will need to ) and discover how many are in the 6.5 bore.

Also talk to people who do shoot long range competiton and they will tell you the 6.5 bore is not only accurate, but it is highly aerodynamic and is also a lot easier on barrels than a 6 mm, 7mm, 30 cal, 338 cal etc.

It also has less recoil for long matches and results in much less shooter fatigue.

I am just sure these are facts an astute individual such as yourself did not have available to him at the time of your posting.
But now you know! So now you are informed and COOL>

The thing I like most about the 6.5 is a combination of two things:

1. Some really, really great bullets from European companies such as Lapua.

2. Similarly great bullets from a few U.S. custom bullet manufacturers such as Carterucio.

3. A really fine performance to recoil ratio. I mean the things shoot really good in match grade guns with a minimum of recoil.

The .260 is by far my favorite .308 derived caliber and the .260AI (while I don't have one.) is rated as a first class improvement on this caliber.

In my humble opinion, the 25-06 shares some of these benefits, but is limited by the number of match bullets available in the caliber. It certainly is not abusive in recoil and there are some fine hunting bullets available.

D.

[ 06-01-2003, 07:08: Message edited by: DMCI* ]

I will let you in on a little secret.

The rifle that I am having built now is a 7mm WSM with a 3 groove 1 in 9 twist Lilja. That rifle should push a 100 grain Sierra Varmint to 3500 with a load of about 58 grains H4895.

This should give me 700yards or so without problems.

While everybody's arguing about which is better Remington is quietly discontinuing both cartridges.

The 25-06 is only offered in the mountain rifle. No more Senderos.

The 260 is only offered in the Model 7 and the Mountain Rifle unless you consider the Titanium an option.... <sigh>

Winchester doesn't offer either cartridge in much of anything that I can find and Savage only has the 25-06 and nothing at all in 264 caliber that I can find.

Pickins are gettin' kinda lean in factory offerings for long range shooters that don't want a screamin' super magnum.

btw... I have a 25-06 for sale in the classifieds.

$bob$

[ 06-02-2003, 03:27: Message edited by: LDHunter ]

Seafire

While I dont disagree with you on the long range shooters using 6.5 diameter bullets, I dont think very many of them use the .260 remington case as the means to burn powder. Seems that I have read that the cases used are 6.5-284, 6.5-06, 6.5WSM, 6.5 Rum. and a few others.

The topic for this thread was not the .257 dia. bullet vs the .264 dia bullet but the 25-06 as a cartridge vs the .260 rem as a cartridge.

Just my two cents worth.

JB

Jimbo:

I am aware a lot of the guys on the circuit are using the 6.5/285. However the 6.5/308 has been alive on the circuit longer than the 260 Remington has existed.

Any handloader can tell you who loads the 6.5/308 or the 6.5/284, that unless you are shooting 140 grainers at 1,000 yds and think you need the extra velocity, a 260 will only be beaten by a 284 case by about a 100fps. And having shot in 600 yd competition, I can tell you that you don't have to adjust your scope of very many clicks to compensate for that 100 fps.

A 260 is also more efficient, resulting in even less recoil and also less barrel wear than the others.

As far as Remington discontinuing both cartridges, big deal. The gun writers and Gun manufacturers that are developing cartridges are telling us RIGHT NOW we need something in a short magnum, or we are uncool and will not kill anything, since those older cartridges are obsolete ( not currently trendy) etc. New cartridges sell better than something tried and proven.

In a lot of experience, with age, I am finding that cartridges developed 100 plus years ago, can still handle about 95% of any big game hunting anyone would ever want to do. Give me a 6.5 x 55 or a 7 x57 any day, and if the prey is really big, okay lets move up to an '06.

A 338/06 is the only rifle I need for anything really big that I will hunt in my life time ( kudos to the 35 Whelan crowd tho, I just prefer the 338/06). If I really need something bigger and have the opportunity come my way, the only other Mag I would go with that may be needed is the 375 H&H and that is a 1912 cartridge.

Do we really need all of this newer stuff, to anything, but just to sell more rifles. Like the government, create a problem that does not exist, so they can offer a solution to solve it.

Seafire

I dont disagree with any of your points. I shoot a .260 and am happy with it.

I am going to be getting a Ruger #1 tomorrow. Hopefully anyway. It will be a .243 untill I can get a new barrel put on it.

I am thinking of a .260 rem, a 6.5-284, 6.5 WSSM, a 6.5x55.

I dont need to crank up the speed greatly but I do like a number one and want a 6.5 dia bullet.

Jim B.

To Mr. Seafire:

I am sorry that what was only intended to be a friendly advise offended you that much.

I am not an armchair theorist, either, but when the scientific community out there says that pressure and muzzle velocity are strongly correlated y tend to believe them.

And there is no way you may reach 3,300 fps with a 24 inch barreled 6mm Remington and Speer's 105 grainer without very, very high pressures. So high, in fact, that the same scientific community would consider it too high.

I can't say why you do not get loose primers after loading the same piece of brass fifteen (!!) times. In Europe, in spite of higher prices we tend to replace our brass after 3 or 5 full throttle loads

It could also be because reloading is not an exact science, circumstance which makes fully advisable to stay away from the limits. It could also be that the chronograph you used to test your loads was defective and real muzzle velocity is closer to 2,800 fps than to 3,300.

Long throats will let you increase case capacity by seating bullets way out there. This moderate increase in case capacity will not make a .240 Weatherby or a 6x62 Freres out of your 6mm Remington.

My response was not made from the comfort of the chair in front of my your computer just to bother you, but as a respectful and friendly advise to a fellow shooter who, it is my belief, could be pushing things a bit too far.

montero

Mr. Montero:

No offense taken. After all we are fellow hunters and shooters.

I know people who do replace their brass more often than I do mine, but as I resize and clean it in the tumbler for about 24 hours after each use, it gives me a very useful service life.
When a primer seats to easily I either ditch that piece or regulate it to light duty loads.

I have checked my chrony out against others, cheaper ones and expensive ones that others have when we are at our local range.

Although I do not have any pressure testing equipment, it is kinda expensive and does require drilling a hole in the barrel as I understand, that velocity has been verified on other chronographs.

It is also proportional since using 44 Grains of H414 in a 243 with the same bullet weight in a 22 inch barrel regular chronographs at 3250fps.
As far as pressures there, 44 grains will let a case last 5 plus reloads. 44.4 grains will blow a primer in most cases.

Sources for these loads came from older reload manuals, long before Lawyers had enough time to hassle the rifle industry. Loads are always worked up, instead of going to max pressures.

This 6mm does have a 1 in 8 twist, and is a PacNor made barrel. I do know 2 rifles with everything the same anfd the same load can chrono differently. However loading some of these up for two others to test, got pretty much the same results.

This rifle has shot groups that you could cover with a half dollar or the old English penny from the 60s ( if that is a better source of reference in Europe) at 300 yds with a Sierra 107 grain match king.

However if it is any consolation; the same powder and load but substituting a Hornady 100 gr Round Nose, the velocity drops down to about 3100 fps.

No pressure problems, but then again, lighter bullet, less velocity. You wouldn't think so, but that is what the chrony says.

I tend to draw my conclusions of what I see, instead of what I read in some manual. Many others do the opposite and I was guilty of assuming the same thing of you.
Please accept my humble apology, and my appreciation for your time to respond and point out something that you felt was worth bringing to my attention from your point of reference.

Seafire,

As to the benefits of 6.5 caliber for most purposes-varmints,deer sized game and targets to 1,000yds--you can't go wrong. As to the magnums----well, the 375 H&H is it! All else is just a waste of time, IMHO! For the mid-calibers--30-06, 8mm Mauser(handloaded),338-06 in standard or Ackley Improved versions will take care of most everything else and do it quite well.

I can't speak to the 6mm's as I don't use 'um. The 257 Ackley Improved does it all for me, but I am pretty set in my ways and preferences.

Good on ya--and keep the faith in the 6.5 bore.

Ol' John

LDHunter: I think you may be wrong about some of those offerings. The BDL still comes in the 25-06,(hardly a discontinuance), Savage still offers it, Ruger still offers it in several models, Sako makes it and so does Winchester and Weatherby!! This baby is around to stay. Any anyway who in the world wants to shoot a 25-06 in a 600yd.- 1000yd. competition! The 25-06 is made for hunting.

Good discussion on two good cartridges. Years ago at the silhouette matches I saw the 6.5/308 knock the 500 meter rams DOWN with authority. The 25/06 is probably at its best with 115gr. bullets and deer size game to 400meters. I have witnessed the 25/06 knock deer down at 450yards.FLATLINED. so WHICh IS THE BEST? pay your $ and choose.Hey get both.