I want to build up a 7x57 pg rifle for my wife who is 5'3".In order to balance the rifle for her how short can I make the barrel before either muzzle blast becomes extreme, or, exterior ballistics become compromised?

Rigby started building there lightweight model in 1902 or so it had a 21 inch barrel i think that they knew what they were doing then ,not to offer it any shorter as they did make a standard 25 inch barrel so in my opinion 21 inch is the right choice.....paul

If it were me (and it was a couple of years ago when i built a 7x57) I'd go with a thin barrel and leave it long enough to get all the velocity you can. The nice thing about the 7mm bore is it doesn't need a very large diameter barrel.

My FN Venezuelan 7x57 has been chopped to ~ 18" and still gives me about 2800 with 50 gr H4350 and 139 Interlocks. Muzzle blast isn't a particular problem.

a 20" barrel will do just fine and still heep the blast afar.
The 21" barrels are the same of course and it's up to you but don't be bashful about short barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:
If it were me (and it was a couple of years ago when i built a 7x57) I'd go with a thin barrel and leave it long enough to get all the velocity you can. The nice thing about the 7mm bore is it doesn't need a very large diameter barrel.

Good advice! I've seen thin barrels that still give good accuracy. I have two 7x57s with 19" barrels. I feel them some and hear them a lot as do my neighbors on the firing line if I'm using a slow burning powder.

A thin light weight 23" barrel isn't all that bad. I would also suggest not using super slow powders. 3031 to 4064 would keep it pleasant enough.

My CZ full stock has a 20.5 inch barrel. I shoot some prety hot loads from it but its fine with me, If I were to build one, I think I would go 22 to 24, and a light sporter , about .600 at the muzzle.
...tj3006

If she is small and recoil is a problem, by using loads around 30 grains of IMR 4198, H 4198, or Reloader 7, with bullets in the 150 grain range and down will give you an MV of about 2250 to 2300 fps... which is close to the original loading speed of the 7mm Mauser with the 175 grain bullets...

Zeroed 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, it will be dead on at 200 yds and 3.5 inches low at about 225 to 240 yds,

Recoil will be similar to the 30/30... a good source of load data would be using load data for the 7/08 in contenders as a reference.. several of the load manuals have hand gun load data available... the faster the powder used tho, the less recoil that shorter rifle is going to give...

IMR 4198, ReL 7 burn quicker, and therefore are not handicapped as much by shorter barrels as are slower powders....

IMR 4198, or something with similar burn rate is what Remington is using in their Managed Recoil loads.... which isn't available in 7 x 57 loadings.....

and 30 grains of any of the above is safe all the way up to the 175 grain bullets in my experiences...

but as with any handloading, work up in your firearm to make sure it isn't being picky about that....

good luck and cheers
seafire

For Small Ring 98's you can cut a 22" barrel .550" at the muzzle that weighs a mere 2 lbs. They WILL shoot too. That is the nbest of both worlds. Light weight and no real sacrifice in velocity or handling, and no excess muzzle blast.

Thanks! I was thinking of using a waffenfabrik action since Glenda is a southpaw

I have a couple rifles cut to 22" and really like them, one in .338WM and a Roberts. I also have a stubby .308W and although it's handy, I'd put a 20 or 22" barrel on it if it needs rebarreling.

As mentioned, a lighter weight barrel thats longer may be better for her. My wife likes the 22" Roberts, and hated the .308W in the Rem 600. Between the recoil, and muzzle blast the .308 may as well been a .300! Nate

The first rifle I built at gunsmithing school was a 7x57 on an '09 Argentine action. I turned the barrel from a Douglas blank and left the muzzle at .550 at 24". I stocked it in a piece of Turkish and it weighs right at 7.5 lbs. scoped, loaded, and slung. My wife enjoys shooting it but if I was making it exclusively for her I would run the barrel at 22" to match her shorter length of pull.

Brian Bingham

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
I want to build up a 7x57 pg rifle for my wife who is 5'3".In order to balance the rifle for her how short can I make the barrel before either muzzle blast becomes extreme, or, exterior ballistics become compromised?

I have a Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 7X57mm with a 20" barrel. I get 2800 with a handloaded 150-grain Nosler BT. I don't think it would lose much if it was 18" instead of 20".

The only custom rifle I have ever HAD built is a 7x57 built by a gunsmith schoolmate. It's on a 1909 and weighs in at 7lbs without scope. It has a 22" barrel and is very handy and accurate.

My rifle has a 19 inch barrel and I find it very handy for all kinds of hunting including pigs. I like using 160 grain bullets and H414 or AA 4350 powder and don't consider muzzle blast a problem. I wear ear plugs and muffs at the range mostly for other peoples muzzle blast and often while hunting I hardly notice the sound my rifle makes.

I'll have to agree with elduegello on this one. I think he and I have about the same 7x57mm carbines, and they work just fine.
LLS

Here is my 18" 7x57 with a slow twist barrel to boot. It is 1:10.5" and I use fast powder with 120gr monos. Muzzle blast is not a problem and recoil can be managed by even the smallest of shooters. The rifle is heavy but, off the bench, girls of 12 weighing 39kg (85lbs) shoot it with no trouble at all. I have taken plains game with it from 80 yards to 350 yards.

24" barrel, long enough to keep the muzzle blast to a minimun and only 6 1/2lbs to boot. Very accurate and fun to shoot.

I'm with Rick R 100%

Terry

That my friend is a beautiful little rifle, Is that a Manlicher action or a customized Mauser?

Yes, that is a beautiful little Mauser!

Nice rifle Terry!

Your question was how short can the barrel be?

I like a rifle to balance in my hand - just in front of the trigger guard. That means it should balance the weight of the stock, the barrel length and thickness. The length of pull (LOP) is thus a factor - be the individual a shorty or a tall guy. Stock fit is important for both extremes and the length of the barrel must be in harmony to form a balanced rifle. A short-barreled rifle for a tall guy would look funny and vice versa.

Secondly, I like a complete powder burn so as not to foul the barrel unduely. Stutzens generally oscillate around 19 inches, but since the 7 x57 mm is essentially a bushveld caliber I would opt for a 22.5" barrel rather than the standard 24 inch tube. The stock does not have to be heavy on such a low recoiling caliber, and consequently one can built a light weight gun for a lady with relative ease so as not to unnecessarily burden her with carrying it for hours.

Hope the above may serve as a guideline.

Chris

The European 20.5" barrel length makes a nice carbine. That should work fine.

It matters what action you choose as the 7-57 does not fit well in some. For instance the Brno's that I have with the nice 20.5" tubes are on long actions and thats not good. The guns are longer and do not balance well.

I would get a Kimber 84M for her in French Walnut in 7mm-08. Better gun all around. They balance very well with the standard 22" barrels.

I just noticed that ugly thing above. That has to be the worst gun yet. At least in the bottom ten.

Sure gotta go with Terry on his choice. Those Brnos came with 20.5 & 23.5" barrels. This one has the shorter barrel:

You may want to consider a Rem. Model 7 in 7mm-08. It is compact and will give you the same ballistics as the 7X57. I believe that it has a 20 inch barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
You may want to consider a Rem. Model 7 in 7mm-08. It is compact and will give you the same ballistics as the 7X57. .

Not far off, but not quite right. Stay the 7x57. roger

Here is my 7X57. It's using the original Brno one piece mount and the Leu. 3-9 Compact fits just right. Someone put on a good single trigger before I got it and a pad. It's a decent shooter and cute.



The barrel on this one measures 20.5"

Just for the record, the 7x57 should not be discussed in the small caliber forum, as the small calibers are the sub-.27 ones. The 6.5s belong in the small calibers. The 7x57 is a medium.

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
Just for the record, the 7x57 should not be discussed in the small caliber forum, as the small calibers are the sub-.27 ones. The 6.5s belong in the small calibers. The 7x57 is a medium.

Damn Henny Penny

quote:

LE270: Just for the record, the 7x57 should not be discussed in the small caliber forum, as the small calibers are the sub-.27 ones. The 6.5s belong in the small calibers. The 7x57 is a medium.

Yeah! Where is Paul anyway? Other posts have been moved for alot less!

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:

quote:

LE270: Just for the record, the 7x57 should not be discussed in the small caliber forum, as the small calibers are the sub-.27 ones. The 6.5s belong in the small calibers. The 7x57 is a medium.

Yeah! Where is Paul anyway? Other posts have been moved for alot less!

Oh my! roger

/

Alf,
The 7x57 "bush caliber" opinion is not supported by South African hunters in general. Just some who have not expolored the full potential of the caliber. The hideously ugly rifle above (with the pre-1994 South African flag on it) is my bench rifle. I have hunted plains game with it out to 450m and it does very well. It will not shoot heavy bullets and anything over 120gr in monometal or 140gr in bimetal is a waste of time.

The 7x57 below used to be my "go to" rifle for all terrain hunting. It has been applied at muzzle flash distance in bush as well as on plains game to 400m. Same load and bullet for both. Sorry Savage99, it is also ugly but it works.

Gerard,

Your stainless rifle is not at all ugly - quite the reverse allthough I don't like muzzle brakes myself.

Mine own 7x57 has taken my longest shot - a fallow buck at 300m with a 120gr ballistic tip.

Hi Alf,

You made an interesting observation by illustrating some factual accounts of longer shots in the very early days (1893) when magnums were unheard of - guess they had to use whatever they had - actually unbelievable to have a sight maked out for 2000 meters. Later on (1938), Walther Gehmann's performance in Berlin was certainly remarkable; putting 20 shots into a 5-inch bull at 300 meters with open military sights. Interesting stuff Alf - thanks for sharing your research with us, as always. Equally noteworthy was that the Boers stacked rocks 200 paces out, waiting for the British Soldiers to approach before firing at them during the Anglo-Boer war. That was their deemed effective range and it worked pretty well for them. Both the Boers and the Spanish outperformed the British and Americans with their 7 mm Mausers against their .303's.

Now the SA notion: I cannot be exactly sure why this notion came about, but I can try to give it a plausible shot. It is in fact generally known and referred to as a short-range caliber by most hunters, gun shops, gun media and writers such as Koos Barnard and Gregor Woods (our premier gun authors in SA), quite contrary to what Gerard wants us to believe.

The 173 gr round nosed bullet @ 2,296 fps must have helped with this notion, especially in later years (after World War 2) when more and more faster cartridges emerged, and so the notion became entrenched that it was a "slow" cartridge, and the "heavy-for-caliber" bullet was not exactly famous for its flat trajectory either, and that was the very bullet that the caliber was associated with for a long time.

Today we have an array of light weight bullets, putting the cartridge in the fast lane when 110 and 120 grainers are being used - such as the Impala and the GS bullet. Factory rounds in the USA were mostly under-loaded with 140 grainers, and there too it was refered to as a "donkey", which led to its demise. In SA, PMP offered for years only a 150 and 170 gr bullet - also at moderate velocities and new sales in the last 30 years also dwindled in favour of faster cartridges. However, handloaders have the ability to play around at will with bullet weights and velocities and so stretch the usefull range.

My personal application of the 7 mm Mauser is indeed limited to under 200 yds, with heavier bullets rather than lighter bullets. Since I prefer using premium bullets such as Rhino and Barnes-X bullets, I prefer them to strike at no less than around 2,000 fps to ensure reliable full expansion. I must therefore admit that the widespread SA notion is also part of my thinking, and I use my 300 H&H as my long range rifle, which is better suited for the task. Target shooters are generally happy as long as they strike their paper targets above 1,116 fps (sound barrier) and so they can reach further than us hunters that seek a higher striking velocity.

Chris

A wonderful discussion on a grand old cartridge.
I suspect I have used the 7 x 57 more than any other caliber over the past fifty or so years, and IMO, it is certainly deserving of the praise you guys have given......whether the barrel is long or short.
This round also makes one wonder if the current method of calculating delivered energy is the right way of doing things, as this little guy is certainly a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Respectfully, Russ...

Chris,

quote:

It is in fact generally known and referred to as a short-range caliber by most hunters, gun shops, gun media and writers such as Koos Barnard and Gregor Woods (our premier gun authors in SA), quite contrary to what Gerard wants us to believe.

I do not know where you get that opinion from because in several articles as far back as 2001, Koos Barnard refers to the use of his 7x57 for plains game hunts and he mentions checking trajectories out to 300m. I do not know if Gregor has a 7x57, but it must be borne in mind that Gregor is not given to long shots with anything. Having been in the gun business in South Africa for just shy of three decades now, my experience is that the 7x57 is referred to as a versatile caliber, capable of bush as well as plains hunting. I have yet to come across someone, other than yourself, who classifies it as primarily a short range caliber.

quote:

In SA, PMP offered for years only a 150 and 170 gr bullet

You are wrong. In addition to their 170gr and 152gr loads, they also offered a 130gr bullet loaded to 200fps more than the 152gr ammunition. They certainly recognised the versatility of this great old cartridge as an excellent all rounder.

quote:

My personal application of the 7 mm Mauser is indeed limited to under 200 yds, with heavier bullets rather than lighter bullets. I must therefore admit that the widespread SA notion is also part of my thinking

Methinks you are making your personal opinion the "opinion" of South African hunters and I can assure you that you are mistaken.

The fact that the 7x57 standard CIP spec calls for a twist rate tighter than the calibers in the spectrum around it, has led to it's reputation for performing well with long bullets. When one explores the potential of the 7x57 more fully, you will find that slender boat tail bullets of lesser weight, but with high BC numbers, perform extremely well at extended range. I have accumulated the parts to build myself a 7mm RM or 300 Magnum at least four times over the last twenty years. Every time the parts get sold off again as I simply do not feel the need for a mid range caliber that has more reach than the 400m to 450m range of my 7x57s.

As RussB says, indeed a wolf in sheep's clothing.

quote:

I do not know if Gregor has a 7x57, but it must be borne in mind that Gregor is not given to long shots with anything.

Gerard,

You are dead wrong on your above presumptious statement, as you pretend to know exactly how and where Gregor Woods is hunting. Read his stories of hunting the desert Gemsbok in the Man Magnum with his 300 H&H, and many others. Gregor Woods is one of the most respected gun writers in SA and I am sure he would laugh at your silly self-served statement.

I do not want to get embroiled with you in another senseless argument. When lighter bullets are used in any caliber than what was used traditionally, velocity can be increased and so a short-range caliber can be turned into a long-range caliber. It does not take a genuis to see that. The traditional bullet weight for the 7x57 was 173 grains, and as such it got to be known as a short-range caliber RELATIVE to other calibers.

Methinks you also cannot think make a statement for the rest of South Africa - you have your own coloquial opinion, and so do I, based on what people around me say and write.

Enough said.
Chris

Gerards daughters.



GS Custom