So here's your guys chance to tell how you feel with a vote...

Question:
Do you think there are people who have killed THOUSANDS of deer in their lifetime?

Choices:
Of Course!
Sure doesn't everybody?
I have my doubts...
NO WAY...

Question:
Do you think it is possible using a 223?

Choices:
Of Course
Sure, Wouldn't everybody?
I have my doubts...
NO WAY!!!!

 

I guess maybe if you are some sort of hillbilly that has been eating deer meat exclusively for the last 50 years.................FS

Here in New Zealand there are numerous ex government deer cullers and meat hunters who have shot thousands of deer.

If antelope count and if culling is included - Yes

Well, I've killed millions. I did it with a fishingpole.

I think it likly that there are such people.
Not many but I know a lady whoe has a grandpa that is 107 years old ,
and hunted deer to suply a logging camp in the 20's and 30,s.
Cold it be done with a .223 of course, but there are better tools for the job.
...tj3006

Here in Texas it's easy and affordable to shoot 20 or more doe a year, if you wanted to do it.

Figure 30 deer a year * 40 years ...

I'm not sure why you'd want to do it though.

Some select folks in unique situations have done it. But those like Hot Core -- aka Melting at the Seams -- do nothing but provide hot air with claims of having killed "many thousands" of deer.

And yet he has no proof. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

And he says he'll never shoot an animal over 50 pounds with a .22 centerfire yet has no qualms using a .243 with 85 grain bullets on 200 pound deer. It completely shows his lack of knowledge and experience -- and leaves his inflated and outrageous claims wavering in the wind...

Leaving out culling and sticking to whitetail or mule deer, ya, maybe there are a few...

But really, at 20 deer a year it would take 50 years...

Even at 50 deer a year it would take 20 years...

In a state like South Carolina, which offers a deer a day limit and a four or so month season, you could do it legally in seven or eight years, but that would preclude earning a living. And anyway, who would want to?

As far as using a 223, well sure, it would be a good choice for what amounts to culling.

JPK

Yeah I'm just 1 deer away to reach 1000. I don't think the average hunter who has to draw the tags, if he don't draw, has to pick up a bow. With a 223, I think it could be done now with 22LR its a gurantee.

Years ago we had a deer lease in West Texas that was in need of serious management. It was way over populated with does.
We had aerial surveys done with helicopters annually and had local game officials involved. We had an annual doe harvest in the range of 80 animals for 3-4 years. This was on about 7000 acres.
We would harvest these does at the end of the season. Believe it or not it was work! About 4 of us would do it in a weekend.
We would clean them and take them into Breckenridge, Texas where a local group would have them processed for "hunters for the hungry". I believe it was sponsored by the Dallas Safari Club or SCI.
So I suppose it is possible to shoot allot of deer if you are involved in a management program on a large tract of land over populated with deer.

A bit off topic, but with regard to harvesting does for managing a herd, we always chose to take the does out FIRST. Mostly, we tried to take them during bow season and early rifle season. Of course, we try and take older does, or any that may seem to be in lesser shape, crippled, etc. Many times they are relegated to guests, so the brother in laws who seldom hunt will get some meat, and that member won't have to figure out what to do with six deer. I've even seen clubs where you are required to kill all of your does before you can shoot a buck. The best reason for this is the Rut, which tends to be toward the end of our season. I sure don't want to be in the position of having to shoot a doe during the time that a buck may be following her. I also don't want the bucks to waste their energy breeding does that we are going to harvest in two weeks anyway. Just seems to make sense to me.

As far as racking up a 1000 kills, I have heard of some of the depredation guys taking out 20-30 a night, but they don't do that 365 days/year. In theory, once you have lowered the numbers, the crop damage is decreased and you don't have to keep killing them.

The trick terms in the questions are "people" rather than "hunters" and "killed" rather than "hunted" so cullers and their specialized equipment (such as suppressed AR15s) are included.

I would imagine there are some professional Cullers who have achieved such numbers and yeah, a .223 Remington would get the job done, too but then again a Black Rifle, a Supressor and heavy for caliber bullets are pretty recent developments in the Grand Scheme of Things so perhaps in the past coupla years 1K's worth of dead Deer haven't quite yet materialized - Dunno.

My opinion similar to others here is that there's better tools (cartridges) available for such work.

As Oldun said in an earlier post, the governmet deer cullers were on a eradication programe( it wasn,t sucessful) of the deer population and at first used the 303 but later on used the 222. Some of the tallies these guys racked up were huge. Then the comercial meat shooters (shooting from helicopters) again took large numbers of animals untill the farming of deer was found to be more lucerative.

Von Gruff.

I know a farmer in Namibia who harvests springbok commercially from his property. He has a permit to take approximately 1,000 per year and does the bulk of the shooting himself. A springbok ain't a deer, but close enough.

But no one with the initials H.C. who lives in the southern U.S. falls into this category Of course, as intellectually challenging as he must find the fundamentals of arithmetic, he may honestly believe differently.

I am sure if you go onto the European forum and ask that question you might get quite a number of the British guys who are comfortably into four figures. They won't have used 223's though.

I know one deer guide / professional stalker here in Ireland, who along with his clients, takes around 400 Sika deer per year, he shoots 250-300 personally. He uses either a 25/06 or a 270. He has been at this for 20 years.

In Europe, no doubt in Africa, wild venison can be sold commercially which is also a factor.

My Grandfather killed over 600 deer in his lifetime. His hunting years spanned about 1910 thrugh the 1940's. This was in Texas. He used a 44/40 and a .351 Winchester auto. In the 1920's he killed at least 10 in one trip. This kind of hunting is what caused Texas to have to restock and ban hunting for 10 years in some spots and 20 in others.
Most of my bucks have had much better antlers than his.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Leaving out culling and sticking to whitetail or mule deer, ya, maybe there are a few...

But really, at 20 deer a year it would take 50 years...

Even at 50 deer a year it would take 20 years...



JPK

They didn't say a thousand, they said "thousands" which implies at least 2000. At 20 a year it would take 100 years. Not likely in this day and age with seasons and limits. We do have enough deer to do it, thou..

For those who aren't familiar with the .223/deer thread in the small calibers forum, this POLL was generated with one person in mind: HOT CORE.

He claims to have killed "many thousands" of deer, but he has never taken one with a .22 centerfire -- nor has he ever seen one taken with a .22 centerfire. Yet he pontificates as though his experience with them spans eternity.

And, as to evidence of those "many thousands" of deer, he has yet to produce s single shred of evidence.

Here is some of his infinite wisdom from a few different posts:

“Have Killed a few, drug in Deer for some folks, and discussed the results of the shots and cartridges used with folks who bring Deer in to be Processed... Only people who are Ballistically Challenged, Stunt Shooters and Total Fools use Inadequate Cartridges and Improper Bullets for the task at hand. If you fall into any of those catagories, then you are ready to begin Wounding.

So, I'd have no reason to have seen a Deer shot with any 22cal.

The smallest things I've Hunted with a rifle were Chipmunk with a 22Rimfire from the hood of a Jeep while slowly easing down a creek. (That's illegal in may locales!)

And from being around a few thousand Hunters.. We used Peer Pressure and education with a Decoy to explain why things often go bad. If it appeared the Hunter still didn't get it, three of us discussed the situation and the majority ruled if the person in question came back on the properties..

it is all out here in the open for the inconsiderate, ill-mannered, very-stupid, sniveling and whining, self-aggrandizing, loud-mouth, blow-hard, braggart

(they) make junk and their customers are too stupid to recognize it. Perhaps their spines are a bit soft

Doesn't surprise me from a person too STUPID to send the Barreled Action "along with" the Stock to a WoodSmith.

go back into your Trash Talking Mode with the other Two Stooges - as usual.

Actually, I think of ALL Pre-64 M70s as rag rifles

Concerning Deer Loads, "I've killed a bunch of them with various 85gr, 90gr, 95gr and 100gr bullets in the 243Win. Right now I'm using the 90gr Speer Hot-Cor and it has proven to be excellent... No, I never wasted any time chronographing a 243Win load.”

That is why it is so funny for me to see the above fools talk about how well their 22cals Kill when they base their vast experience on a few Deer. They harp about Experience, and yet they don't have enough to know what they are talking about - aka fools.” And yet he contradicts himself here: “So, I'd have no reason to have seen a Deer shot with any 22cal.” Hmmm...when others have less experience, they are fools. But HC is the KING when he has ZERO experience.

And when questioned about killing “thousands” of deer, he replied: “Actually it is many thousands of Deer. How `bout you, are you in the multiple thousands of Deer Kills? And my buddy John actually Killed more than I did...Fortunately, you all know from my past posts that I never Lie.”
---
And for that, ol Hot Core -- now known as Melting at the Seams -- was recently presented a special award that very few individuals could ever aspire to achieve.

Congrats, HC...from the bottom of my heart, I must say YOU DESERVE IT.

Well I've only killed hundreds but never with a 22 centerfire. 22LR works just fine If you need something larger, go to 30cal.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
So here's your guys chance to tell how you feel with a vote...

John! you left off one catagorie:::

Who gives a big rat's ass? The pro people are going to do what they think is their right and the negatives are still going to do a shame on you.
I've got and given more black eyes in the school yard when I was 14 over more meaningful topics. What a bunch of ego, self right, junk. JMHO, And the horse the .223 advocates rode in on. That's if they ever hunted off horse. During the 30s and 40s there was an expression " Tell it to sweeney"

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

I doubt there is anyone alive today in the US who has killed a 1000 deer.

Remember that's 20 a year for 50 years. Sure it is theoretically possible but I doubt it has been done by anyone alive today.

2 targets a month, 24 a year, 100 years, 2400 targets...

in Texas, MAX legal of 4 deer a year, and add in 5 doe LAMPS permits .. 100 years of hunting, still under 1000 ..

double that.. 1800 a year..

4x that.. 3600 a year.. that's 36 deer a year, once a week for most of the NOT summer months .. for 100 years ...

aint possible in the US

And yet somehow, one individual -- Hot Core -- has defied all of these odds and taken "many thousands" of deer.

Mercy, I'm impressed.

Easily in New Zealand.

Leaving out rodents and birds etc my guess would be that the biggest number of animal kills would be kangaroos in Australia. Also goats and pigs and especially goats.

Mike-

Yes, it's pretty easy to rack up big numbers on varmints or nuisance-type animals, but the poster in question was specifically referring to deer. And while some deer are killed on depredation permits, the "many thousands" for him and "even more" for his friend begs for questioning.

Here in Texas, some guys rack up impressive numbers on wild hogs, but the "many thousands" of deer claim is pretty preposterous since this guy refuses to give even one shred of evidence to back his claim.

Todays day and age I think it would be rather hard. I have been hunting for 25+ years and am still well below 75 deer total, even thought I have had at least one deer a year. In states that allow more than one I have filled out. Other than cull hunters or 50+ years ago I guess that I would have to say "I have killed 1000 deer" is pure unadultarated BS, using a 223 or any other caliber.

Bobby,
going back over my hunting reports .. using a gun (not trapping) I am WAY under 1000 hogs .. and I am a hog huntin fool .. oh, don't get me wrong, if I can use the meat, I'll take 10-12 in a weekend ..but MOST of the time I don't have that many mouths to feed, and so its 2 or 3, depending on size, right?

lets see, I have a "real job" that pays for my hobbies .. I probably get to hunt call it 10 weekends a year ... and a HIGH average of 4 hogs per hunt, that's 40 per year ... for about 16 years, 640 on the high end .. and I am CERTAIN its less than that .. probably more realistically under 400 ..

and i hunt a BUNCH --

We can't compare whitetail, where a big herd is 20, with african game or even Roos .. if you found 30 deer in a field, that would be the deer population for 2 square miles ... not 500 in a single herd ...

its just not possible for a person living in the east coast (pretty densely populated as compared to the central states. can't happen in the last 100 years .

he's full of STUFF, and refuses to provide the FIRST shred of evidence (this county, this year, for example)..

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
He claims to have killed "many thousands" of deer,

Which is True.

quote:

Here is some of his infinite wisdom from a few different posts:

Had no idea bobby was Hero Worshiping my posts. One thing for sure, if he pays attention to them, he will learn the Truth.
-----

Amazing to me that so many are able to draw conclusions based "only" on the Hunting/Killing that they are exposed to and don't have a clue about Depredation Permits in the South.

Of course, some of the confusion is fostered by the herd of Liars - bobby, jeffe, teanScum, tc1, gunmaker, etc., who don't have any actual first-hand Experience.

Jeff-

My hog kill numbers mirror yours to a large degree.

Early on, I didn't keep up with the numbers when the hogs started showing up around here and doing damage. I just killed 'em. Ditto for when neighbors called and needed them taken out during crop seasons. When I did actually HUNT them, I usually shot a photo with one of my film cameras and eventually stuck it on my gun room walls -- until several years ago when the walls became covered, that is.

Then I quit taking photos of hogs altogether for a while.

Then, a couple years ago, when I started using my wife's little digital, I began to post some of the hogs I've killed here and another forum or two. (And I didn't have to deal with or pay for prints )

I could probably go back into logbooks for various guns/calibers/bullets/loads and decipher it, but the effort, to me, is not worth it. And it's not that important, either.

My very conservative extimate is that I've killed at least 225 hogs. I know it's more than that, but I also want to be realistic and not inadvertently inflate anything beyond the truth. So I'll stick to the 225 + number for now.

And those numbers, like noted earlier, include both hunting and shooting on sight in ADC-type situations (oh, and before they got here, I actually killed maybe 10 or so hogs on paid hunts. If I had only known then what I know now... ).

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
He claims to have killed "many thousands" of deer,

Which is True.

prove it

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
...Of course, some of the confusion is fostered by the herd of Liars - bobby, jeffe, teanScum, tc1, gunmaker, etc., who don't have any actual first-hand Experience.

Yeah, we certainly don't have any first hand experience in making up stories that we have killed MANY THOUSANDS of anything ...

.223 nah...I prefer a .22 Hornet

Hotsore-headshooter!

Bartsche, if you're looking for an AMEN, you got a big one from me. Some of these people need to get a life.

I remember reading a 'Louisiana Sportsman' article from years ago, talked of a true account of a professional poacher in my state.

He did in an AWFUL lot of deer.

22LR.

He may qualify.

I know three people personally (but I have the weirdest friends) who shoot a three-digit number of roe deer per year. Add some red deer, fallow deer, boar and moose to that. One of them has two trophy rooms, one large (the top floor of a barn) with more than 1200 trophies, ranging from decent to good. Skull mounts, of course. Indeed, one thousand two hundred. The smaller trophy room contains the more interesting trophies.

The chambering is irrelevant for this discussion. Anything with decent midrange capabilities will do. These guys use .22Hornet (!) and, typically, .223 and 6,5x55 for roe deer, 6,5x55 and up for larger spiecies.

OK, I am not going anywhere near the truth or no so truth of how many deer H.C. has killed. I have no clue. What I can say is that growing up and hunting in South Carolina you realize that most of the rest of the country is severely handicapped when it comes to number of deer you can shoot per year.

On private land in S.C. season opens Aug 15th (most counties) and closes on Jan 1st. If the 1st falls on a Sunday then it stays open until the 2nd. There is NO daily limit, nor yearly, limit on bucks. No tags to draw or anything. Walk in to your favorite store and plop down $20 for your combination hunting/fishing liscence and you are set to fill many freezers. If you want to shoot does then it is $5 per tag or $20 for 5 tags. On top of that there is 10 days where you do not need a tag for does but it is limited to 2 per day.

Now if that isn't enough and you are a farmer you can get lots of doe tags and even permits to shoot year round if I remember correctly.

Again, don't know a thing about H.C. but in South Carolina it is definitely possible to get into the "many thousands" range over a lifetime of hunting and I do know a couple people who are well over the 1k mark. I am not one of them though, no where near it, as I have been in the military for 20 years and don't hunt much anymore.

Shucks, since all this talk about the number of critters Hotsh$t has taken it encouraged me to step forward with a little revelation of my own. In doing this I know that I'm in the companionship of close friends, Like "the Model 70 Lying Ricochet Rifleman", (AKA Hotsh$t) and his saddle sidekick "The I don't have any experience with that caliber flockshooter" (AKA Kaboom). I feel comfortable in knowing that they will support me in telling you lads about something that is very personal and actually confidential about my hunting past.

You see in the days of my youth I did indeed partake in many buffalo hunts in the Dakotas and in Kansas prairies. And, I'm almost embarrassed to mention this, but in those days my actual harvest of Buffalo was over 5,500 animals. Please don't judge me harshly nor ask for any proof as my word alone should suffice.

quote:

Originally posted by Ammo Troop:
and I do know a couple people who are well over the 1k mark.

Quite an informative posting. Thanks roger