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Looking for a little help.... i've been testing 75g Amax and 80s, my gun just wont shoot the Amaxs! So i moved to the bergers, and their......ok! 1-1'1/2@ 100. shooting Remington sps tactical, re barreled with a sheling 26' 1/8twist! HSP stock. wondering if in just runing them to fast, or the 8 just wont stabilize the 80 vlds!... Just wondering, if anyone has had this problem? just have it in my head this gun should do it, being my buddies 7twist shoots the 90vlds like a dream..... Any help would be great! thanks.  | ||
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sorry about the group size!!! Its 2-2-1/2! | |||
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1/2moa@200---I think a 26 foot long barrel would not stabilize those bullets. Is that 26 foot barrel the reason you shoot 1/2 moa @200? That would put you close enough you could almost poke holes with the barrel. | |||
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My Savage with a one in 9 twist, stabilizes both the 75 and 80 grain A Maxes just fine... less than half inch groups or better depending upon powder and load... it also shoots the Berger and Sierra 80 grain match bullets just fine, along with the various 77 grain bullets.. I am suspecting if yours isn't shooting them well, that you must not have enough velocity on them... if my one in 9 is doing so, your one in 8 should also, unless you were told it is a one in 8 and it isn't.. I'd check it... I have seen other Savages with one in 9s stabilize those bullets also...so mine is not an anomaly...  seafire | |||
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I think thats the prob..... I'm pushing them too fast! And yeah gundog, I have not tried jumping them. for everyone I know that shoots them, have them jammed in the lands. Report back in a few days! thanks for your help gundog, and Seafire it a true 8 twist! And carpet muncher! I see you had to put you smart A@# comment in their! Next time keep your Sh$t to yourself!! This isnt Snipers Hide, I guess there is clown everywhere you go these days! You knew exactly what I was talking about! 26 INCH!  | |||
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Easy tiger  Perry | |||
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whoa - somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed   | |||
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1/2 MOA@200---- You are correct--I knew that was a 26" barrel or was it 24"? You had to go back and re-post to get the group size correct. Obviously you are proof reading challenged or don't pay attention, maybe this same problem when you are shooting and reloading??? | |||
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Well their shooting 1/4moa today. Thanks Gundog, I jumped them 10 thou, and came down a grain in powder...  I guess i must have been paying ATTENTION!!!!! LOL... I was some what ill that morn..But I do have a sense of humor! So carpetman, proof read this!  LMAO. | |||
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This is good information. I have a Tikka T-3 on it's way which has a 1-8" barrel. I'll be sure and give the Bergers a go. Thanks. | |||
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I love them to! and the BC is great, i shoot them in my 7mm and .308! Try them 80s Cliff, you wont be disappointed! | |||
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I recall an article in Rifle Magazine a couple of years ago where the author went to New Zealand to test the new hunting version of Berger's VLD bullets. They were absolutely shocked at the one shot kills that were seen on feral goats and red stag. The author was simply astounded. He said that the bullet seemed to enter the target several inches and then almost explode. | |||
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Cliff That was John Barsness, he over on www.24hourcampfire.com he posts as muledeer. Those hunting Bergers are supposed to drop em where they stand havent tried em, seems like Hornadys are treating me well these days. | |||
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Hornadys?? really? Amax? i could never get them things to shoot. the 80s 75s never would, go figure isnt they the way it works? none of my guns shoot the cheaper bullets, its always the ones that cost the most! lol | |||
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You are correct. I really enjoy reading Barsness and am sorry that he doesn't seem to be writing for Rifle/Handloader any longer. | |||
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All the rifles I've tried the Bergers in liked jump better! God Bless, Louis | |||
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I love the berger Hunting VLD's. (6.5 and .308,.300RUM, so far in several weights) I would tend toward a 1:7 with the .224/80's, though the 1:8 should work.(as per the web site) My bet is your accuracy issue is less barrel( crown, chamber, bore),and more load or trigger actuator(  ).DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Thanks for the info Gundog. I hear ya on the 1-7 twist, wishing now I would have went with that so i could get a bit more MV! My buds are shooting the 90s in their 7 twists, with great results, but having to slow them down a bit, same as me for the 80s in the 1-8. I guess I'll find out this weekend, how bad the wind kicks my butt. For my first F-Class 600yard shoot is this sat. thanks for all the help,...... and the jokes to everyone! Troy | |||
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Speaking of VLDs! I have 400 .308 175gr hunting VLDs! Don't really know if I can do this on here but would like to sell or trade for 175gr SMKs! My .308 5R just dont like em! PM me for more info! | |||
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Amazing to me that ANYONE who has Killed Game would go on record saying ANYTHING "good" about that kind of Bullet for use on Game. So, it really does not surprise me that it was barsness. The more I see of his writing, the less he apparently knows. Perhaps if Sierra sent him on a pre-paid trip, then he would be praising MatchKings as outstanding Game Bullets. Or if Speer sent him with "TNTs", they would be the greatest Killer of all time. Pitiful! The Burger Bullets were "designed" for paper. I've yet to read, or hear from a credible source, of any change in the actual "design" that indicates they were re-engineered to make them an intelligent choice for a Game Bullet. | |||
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You must not get out MUCH!! Their is a "HUNTING VLD" and a "TARGET VLD"!!!! Dont you look for the truth, before you go running that mouth?? Women! Assume Shit! Not Men! your computer does have Google, dont it? lol. Surely, your pissed BC the health care shit! Go eat some bon bons or somthing, cool off that hot core! HA HA Had to do it, had a carpetman moment!lmao.... | |||
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Hotsh#t, You step in it again pal, Pitiful. Ya old buttshooter, you should have at least checked on some facts before running your mouth..................wait a second..... you never do that!!!!! A visit to the Berger web site would have provided you with a nice little video on their HUNTING VLD's. The video includes demonstrations from the "Best of the West", that's a TV show in case you don't get out too much, that shows them using the HUNTING VLD on long range hunting situations. I know that you are more into killing "thousands???" of deer with your buttshooting shotgun loaded with archaic loads, but ya otta move out of the basement one of these days. But again what is facts when they are compared to your uninformed uneducated OPINION. Nothing new there just PITIFUL and DANGEROUS!! | |||
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Well, I see 1/2 has a "Reading Comprehension Problem". We already know teanScum is a fool, so no need to go into that. Apparently 1/2s grasp on "How" a Bullet should perfom on Game is as indepth as teanScum's (the Board Lier) knowledge base. I've also noticed 1/2 takes great pride in being vulgar, which I feel sure comes from having a Street Walker for a Mother and a Pimp for a Father. Obviously 1/2 and teanScum are twins!  | |||
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I was vulger?? how??? For saying shit?? Makes me think you 8089 post were all BULLSHIT!!!!!!! You want Vulgar? I'll give fucking Vulgar! You immature SOB!! You talk of my father as a pimp? And my mother a whore? My father accomplished more in a week, with 3 tours in WW2 USMC!! Then you have in a life time! And as far you calling my mother that! you better stay in that fucking cave your in! Bc the next time in in that liberal Gov funded state you call the Carolinas, We will see how ethical a "Hunting VLD" is! Laugh @ that paw paw! | |||
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Hotsh#t, Yo you old buttshooter, slayer of "thousands of whitetail deer?????" How are ya doing my old friend???? My how I have missed you cesspool of a mind, please don't tarry so long in the future. Here, little one let me help you on your fallacy on the Berger bullets. www.bergerbullets.com. I know that you can do it if you just try, so come on and visit their website. Don't forget to take two pills tonight!!!! | |||
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Well I see not much ever changes... haven't been on as often, but I see decorum marches on per usual.. hey its March... has anyone posted how many deer they have killed so far this year??? must be up around 100 plus so far this year.. folks have schedules to keep, ya know.. | |||
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Now we have the person people in this thread "claim" is a Scam Artist show back up. I would have figured the 3 run together. Perhaps triplets. | |||
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Get off my therad you trash bag! Have you posted anything helpful on this topic???? Didnt think so, can your ass even shoot? Do you even own a gun? prove it sweetheart? and what do you have to say about the Berger web site? are they fools too?  | |||
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A classic example of your upbringing and heritage(that means your Mother and Father) - scum of the earth. No doubt about it! Actually, you are representing that situation perfectly. Amazing that I saw through you so quickly. Of course having to deal with teenScum and seafire teaches people to be on the watch for Freedom Freeloaders(never served), Yellow-Backed Jelly Fish(spineless punk). I can't imagine a real MARINE having raised a worthless piece of trash like you, so I'll run up the flag on that last bunch of bologna.  And it also appears the ghetto school system has turned out another fine example of illiteracy. Pitiful! Yes indeed, you fit right in with teenScum and seafire. | |||
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Hotsh$t, My old long lost friend, how I have missed your comments to lighten my day. It seems like you've become the suppository of all opinions lately you old rascal. I'm anxious to hear what you found out at the Berger website when you visited it. You have visited it, haven't you??? Now don't be afraid I know that you can do it all by yourself and that you'll feel better afterwords. Let me give it to you again in case you lost it. It's www.bergerbullets.com. There you go little guy. We are all anxious to hear your report on these Berger bullets after you visit the site, so hurry along and don't keep us waiting. Perhaps it's time to visit the Doc again and see if you need to change to new meds. The ones you're on don't seem to be getting the job done for us lately. I've tried to get you some help from the members of this forum but...................nobody cared!!!!! And for that I am so sorry. | |||
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You Talk a lot of shit, flaming hothole! Your calling BS on me??? lmao! You have know flipping idea Boy! You talk all this crap on the PC, I just booked a paddling trip to north Carolina! And my (pimp)BS father will be with! 77 years old! Care to meet up and call BS??? I bet my life, you would'nt say that shit to his face! He'd pull his belt off and whoop your pussy ass, like the little boy you are! So I'm calling BS on you..... put your money were you mouth is! All have whatever proof you need. Or can your hoover round not make it? | |||
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Some day when you grow up, come back and talk about 80gr Bergers in .223 8 twist as the topic describes. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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you know vapodog, thats what im going to do! As far as being grown up, I sure i've been for a wile.. AND I'm going to Apologize, to all the ppl i've offended by my language.. BUT I hate it for you having not seen what was said! Or thats you son, or brother that your over looking?? Any MAN in their right mind wouldnt alow some idiot, to talk about their mother or father that away! With that said, hothole... and all that backs him... KISS MY A$$!!!!!! SO bergers it is! what advice do you have?  | |||
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Welcome to the list. If others offend you then I suggest you do the same! Until then you'll not disgrace my screen again! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I usually do not post here but read some since I shoot a little High Power and like to keep up with what was going on. 1/2moa, you are full of Sh$t.
If he is 77 he was born in 1933. WWII finished when he was 12 years old? Quite an accomplishment. | |||
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Good catch man!  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Helloooooooooooo Hotsh#t, How are ya doing little buddy. Say just a kind word to let you know that your report on your visit to the Berger website is past due. I'm sure this is just a small over site on your part but I don't want you to be afraid of that visit. It won't hurt for that long, its just the truth about your little booboo of a post about Berger Hunting Bullets. Just muster up you courage and click on the link above. I know you can do if you just try little man. Much love and affection. | |||
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In the event anyone actually is interested in a bit of performance info on the VLD Hunting bullets, here you go: ...Below is one of the hogs I took with the Berger 7mm 140 grain VLD Match/Hunting bullet earlier this year. Below the photos will be the text detailing the testing of the bullet.         New Berger 7mm Bullet Displays Excellent Performance Potential by Bobby W. Tomek Copyright 2008 After months without rainfall, the landscape was parched and the wildlife in peril. But on this day, the skies showed promise, and light, scattered showers had every living creature on the move -- myself included. The area I was working had a long history of hog activity, but I had seen little in the past few weeks as the water sources dried up and the food had become scarce. Nonetheless, I had faith that the tides would turn as the rains came, and within minutes, my wish had become reality. Amid the leafy cover of a drooping willow and assorted creek bottom foliage, I noticed movement and could make out the distinct outline of a hog's legs. As I circled around to gain a better vantage point, the hog emerged into the clearing, changed gears and appeared intent on vacating the premises. I was caught without cover or a shooting rest, so I did the next best thing: I dropped to a sitting position and wrapped the sling of the Contender around my arm to steady my aim. I then eased the crosshairs well ahead of the shoulder, gently touched off a shot and sent a prototype Berger bullet into a 250 pound slab of bacon. As the sound reverberated off the walls of the stream bed, a dozen or more doves rose above the tree line while two smaller hogs broke from cover. The hog I had shot at lay on its side without so much as a twitch or spasmodic kick. On the surface, it appeared the bullet had indeed done its job, but only a full field autopsy could confirm whether or not it had performed as the manufacturer intended. A Proven Track Record for Accuracy No one would deny that Berger bullets are among the most accurate you'll ever find. Cast a cursory glance around any serious shooting circle -- from back-yard aficionados to national and international match winners -- and you'll find that the Berger name is quite well represented amongst the top performers. When Walt Berger founded the business, he did so with a commitment to quality and a philosophy that nothing other than match-grade machinery and match-grade components would ever be used in producing Berger Bullets. That same philosophy still holds true today under the guidance of Walt's grandson-in-law Eric Stecker, who today is running the company after having been around it since its very inception. Lately, however, a number of long range hunters have been using the bullets with stellar results on game, and they've even come to prominence in a national hunting show. I'll quickly admit being leery of using target bullets on game as most brands have been designed with a sole purpose in mind: to punch tiny, bug-hole groups in paper with no regard whatsoever as to terminal ballistics. However, both Walt and Eric note that the company's match-grade, VLD (Very Low Drag) bullets have become the darling of many hunters. Berger claims that the bullets, partly due to the needle-nosed neck topped by a tiny meplat, are able to penetrate at least three inches before expansion initiates. But Berger also notes that the bullets are designed to expand violently after those first few inches and that as much as 80 to 90 percent of the bullet's original weight will be shed. Berger claims that very behavior is what allows quick, clean kills with most animals dropping right in their tracks. As a whole, the Berger VLD series bullets are heavy-for-caliber designs which feature ample mass to get the job done on thin-skinned game, even if the bullet would begin to expand almost immediately. The bullets are generally the longest in their entire class and have a high -- often the highest -- ballistic coefficient, meaning they buck the wind extremely well, give up velocity grudgingly and reach the target with a maximum amount of available energy. But the version I was testing was a 7mm, 140 grain projectile that fits into a more conventional weight range. Many shooters have been clamoring for this weight from Berger, and apparently someone was listening. At Home on the Range Upon receiving the bullets, I decided to run them through a couple of firearms: a Thompson-Center Contender with a 20-inch Bullberry barrel chambered in 7mm Bullberry and a Thompson-Center Encore with a 24-inch barrel in 7mm-08. Anticipating their arrival, I had brass for both calibers prepped, primed and ready to load. It did not take long for me to settle on a load for either. The very first load with the Bullberry cut a gorgeous 0.673 group at 200 yards using 30.5 grains of H335 and a Federal 210 primer. The Encore, while quite accurate, is more of a utility-grade performer compared to the custom Bullberry, so when the 2nd load attempted -- 40 grains of Re-15 and a Federal 210 primer -- gave me a group of 1.212" at 200 yards, I decided to stop right there as I only had 100 bullets at my disposal. Four additional three-shot groups with the 7mm Bullberry afforded an impressive 200-yard aggregate of 0.724 inch. Although my Contender has turned in impressive groups before, the Berger bullet absolutely redefined accuracy in the 7mm Bullberry. Even the Encore did well as a five-group aggregate of 1.199 was recorded. To say I was pleased with the accuracy would be an understatement, but I had bigger fish to fry as expansion testing and hunting remained on my agenda. Earlier, I had procured a large batch of newsprint and thoroughly soaked it in water for 24 hours. I often use a medium consisting of repeating chambers of water and newsprint, but because of what I anticipated -- that the bullets would shed a large portion of their weight -- I elected to go with conventional wet newsprint instead. This would simplify any recovery efforts as the fragments would be contained in the newsprint and not in a vat of water. It did not take long for me to realize that Berger was right on the money with its claim. With impact velocities ranging from nearly 2800 fps to a low of just over 1800 fps, the bullets would penetrate anywhere from 3.5 to 5.75 inches before initiating rather violent expansion. Higher attendant velocities had the bullets opening quicker and reaching maximum wound channel volume sooner. But the lower velocity loads behaved similarly, the primary difference being they opened somewhat slower and penetrated a bit more before the maximum wound channel cavity was reached. Regardless of the velocity at impact, every 140 grain Berger tested began to fragment violently and reached its maximum wound channel volume between 8 and 11 inches. And the physical size of the actual wound channels between the higher and lower velocity loads varied hardly at all. Compared to bullets which behave more typically upon impact, one would surmise that the Berger would rack up notably less impressive numbers in actual penetration tests. But in the media I employed, the Berger VLD gave penetration numbers which were not unlike those recorded with several other 140 grain projectiles. In fact, the differences were rather negligible between several of the bullets tested, that despite the fact that the Berger came apart at the seams while the others retained their mushroomed shape in more typical fashion. Nonetheless, despite the initial penetration prior to expansion, I still had my reservations regarding on-game performance. Those reservations were quickly put to rest, however, once I began field-dressing the old boar hog. Proof is in the Pudding An adult male hog is a stern test for any bullet as a mature boar will feature thick, mud-caked hide, a gristle-like shield protecting its vitals and bone structure that is clearly more substantial than those of the white-tailed deer in our area. Those features have a well-deserved reputation for soaking up an inadequate bullet like a sponge. For those reasons, I prefer a heavy-for-caliber bullet with a proven track record for penetration. The said bullet will have a high sectional density and will be fired at moderate velocity to take advantage of all of its penetration capabilities. So you can understand my concerns when I realized my testing of the Berger 7mm 140 grain bullet would take place during the summer months, when the nearest available -- and legal -- big game would be wild hogs. Those concerns, however, were quickly cast aside once I opened the chest cavity of the hog. The 140 grain VLD bullet, which retained approximately 2185 fps at impact, had landed exactly where I had intended and was centered on the shoulder. Following an entrance that was hardly noticeable, the bullet plowed through the shoulder, left a .35 caliber hole through the ribcage, made absolute mush of the lungs and ruptured much of the major plumbing surrounding the heart. There was one dime-sized exit hole through the hide on the opposite side. Less than a half-inch away from it was a smaller exit that measured approximately .22 caliber. However, a cut-away view showed extensive damage through the opposite shoulder, a fact disguised by the relatively small exit wounds. The bullet simply chewed through the flesh and bone and left a gaping wound channel through the opposite shoulder. Also in evidence were a few small fragments which were imbedded in an around the latter stages of the wound cavity. Later, I also found one sizable piece of jacket under the hide in the off-side. Suffice to say, the results were instantaneous -- if not spectacular. The following day, I took another hog, this time another boar of approximately 225 pounds, while using the Encore in 7mm-08. The shot placement was nearly identical, and so were the results. The only difference was that the impact velocity was approximately 2550 fps and that there were 3 small exits -- each perhaps a quarter-inch in size -- along with the numerous small fragments to be found along the opposite-side ribcage. The wound channels were remarkably similar in spite of the fact that nearly 400 fps separated the two bullets at impact. Granted, two animals certainly don't prove a thing other than the fact that the bullets did indeed perform exactly as Berger is claiming. And while they would not be my primary choice for a once-in-a-lifetime hunt for trophy elk or a Kodiak Island bear, they certainly have displayed the ability to be a candidate for thin-skinned, non-dangerous species such as pronghorn, mule deer, whitetail or many of Africa's plains game. After all, they had no problems punching through a couple of 200+ pound wild hogs while plowing through heavy bone in each instance. Where I feel the bullet will truly shine is in medium-capacity rounds such as the 7mm-08 and for hunters patient enough to take broadside, ribcage shots, a scenario that will absolutely pulverize the vitals and put the animal down quickly and humanely. It may also be just the ticket for those unique individuals who have converted the art of long-range paper-punching into a means of bagging game. As long as the impact velocity falls between 1800 fps on the low end to 2800 fps at the other extreme, you'll be able to count on the predictable terminal performance of the Berger VLD bullet. In fact, this fall, I'll hold out hope for pulling the trigger on a white-tailed buck using the new Berger 7mm 140 grain bullet. I am confident that if I do my part, the Berger VLD bullet will certainly take care of its end of the bargain. --------- ADDENDNDUM: I've taken several more animals since then, and the Berger 7mm 140 grain VLDMatch/Hunting bullet has been a model of consistency in terminal performance. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Hey Bobby, That is certainly a better report than what the other folks mentioned barsness had said. Of course this thread is about 80gr Bullets, but I understand the tie-in. Do have a few questions though. Yes indeed, very interested in wondering "WHY?" anyone would consider using a Bullet Designed for Paper on Game? Pitiful and Pathetic! Excellent writing style. To read it, I'd actually think you were smart enough to know how to properly string a Recurve - but of course that would be WRONG!  However, it is MUCH BETTER than ANYTHING I've seen barsness put on paper.Since you Tested Prototype Bullets, do you believe they changed anything before releasing the Production Bullets? That is excellent - for one piggy. Excellent question. Agree on the Berger Bullets being accurate, as well as known for their accuracy. As anyone should be. In fact, it should NEVER even cross a person's mind that it would be OK to use.
So have MatchKings - pitiful!Sooooo, they are "Designed" to loose 80-90% of their Weight, per Berger. Is this in conflict with what you actually witnessed? I can understand that "claim" from a Marketing perspective. In reality, fragile Bullets are pitiful on Game as more "attempted" Kills will eventually result in lost and wounded Game. Based on two piggys or regurgitatimg Marketing bologna??? Nice. For those of you who do not Reload a lot, "longest in their entire class" quite often creates real problems " IF " you plan to carry more than one cartridge in the rifle. Since bobby was using a single shot, of course he would not have to mention this real PROBLEM. You will have to decide if it is Lying by Omission, too negative about the Bullets for him to consider mentioning it, or too much of a Rookie to realize the issue. As it should be with Bullets Designed for Paper. Interesting you Bogied the Data by adding pieces of Bullet rather than just accepting the fact it went all to pieces. No one else in their right mind would ever pull such a bunch of bologna and think it was the way to do it. Even the Bergers "claim" the end result should be 28-14gr, which is 80-90% of the pre-shot weight which they say it is supposed to FRAGMENT away. The true indication of a Bullet "not Designed" for use on Game. And what do you believe caused this? And especially since it was "Designed to FRAGMENT away 80-90% of it's weight"(aka non-Game Bullet). Anybody got an idea "HOW?" the Bullet entered the Shoulder and then got through the Rib Cage? Are you talking about the Ribs behind the shoulder? So, the Bullet Fragment did some damage. Do you think the Exit was made by the remainder of the Bullet, or a Secondary Missle Fragment? If the Bullet performed as Designed, then only 14-28gr of Bullet remained when it got to the Off-Side. Again, Bullet Fragments or do you believe it was actually Seconday Missle Fragments? That is the most important and truthful statment in the entire text. How did you arrive at this statement? Obviously you really do not understand what happened, or that is simple Marketing bologna for people too stupid to know the difference - like teenScum. And you decide that based on two piggys. Actually it is an excellent choice for "Paper Targets" - IF - it fits in your magazine properly. Though you are obviously shilling for Berger Bullets, it is still better than ANYTHING I've ever seen barsness put on paper. | |||
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