Is this a good round or overhyped?

As a side note, I looked at a Browning A-Bolt in 243 WSSM the other day at the Bass Pro Shop. This was a grey stainless med weight barrel that was chromelined. I knew that the blue steel version was chrome lined but I didn't realize the stainless version was as well. I take it that the WSSM must be a barrel burner for all the chrome lining.

Wel the best thing to be said for the 243 WSSM in my book, is that it is a poor attempt to try and make itself into a 6mm Rem...

I am normally a Winchester man.. but Remington beat Winchester in 6mm in my book... even on the 243, and I own half a dozen of those!

The little fat bastards won't feed in a Winchester

I have a .243 winchester and love the cartridge. It's flat shooting, low recoil and inexpensive. I really can't see the point of a.243 WSSM!

The WSMs are marketing answers to non-existant problems.

I like mine a lot.

Friend of mine had one in a heavy barrel Browning, I think it is a great round, very fast, however as said before, it would not feed. If I was ever to have one it would have to be a single shot, i.e. Ruger #1, Encore, etc.

I have no real opinion about it at this time but most of the short, super short magnum rounds are a waste of time. What can I say other than, are they really needed or necessary? I have no problem with people picking a “go no where†round. 10 years from now, don’t ask me where you can buy brass for it.

Look what Chuck Hawks has to say ...

"I think that the popularity of short, fat cartridges is simply a fad, driven by clever marketing. Just as zoot suits were a fad in the 1940's and bell-bottom trousers were a fad in the 1970's. The first fad of the 21st Century has brought us short, very fat, rifle cartridges. I doubt that the shape of the case actually makes much practical difference (within reasonable limits) in hunting cartridges, even when fired in specialised varmint rifles. Other factors in the rifle/cartridge/load equation are far more important."

Warrior

The .243 WSSM looks like a bloated version of the 6mm PPC. The PPC was actually intended for single shot target rifles and not for magazine rifles. The .243 WSSM has a rebated rim design just like all the other WSM cartridges - the rim diameter is .535" and the case head is .555". The shoulder angle is 28 degrees and the case length is 1.675". It shoots a .243" bullet and the specified rifling twist is 1 turn in 10", the same as for the .243 Winchester.

What makes it better than a 243 Win? The velocity is more by a mere 100 fps at 3,110 fps. With its shorter and stubbier case, its sharper neck and its rebated case, manufacturers had to solve feeding problems in magazine rifles - they are simply better used in single shot rifles such as for competition shooting where a round is inserted manually by hand. The .243 WSSM might be slightly faster than the 243 Win, but it cannot beat the 6 mm Remington, built on a standard short action. Also, it is by far inferior to the real .243 calibre Magnum cartridges or even the wildcats such as the 6mm-284 and the 6mm-06.

Browning and Winchester were the first gun manufacturers to announce rifles for the .243 WSSM cartridge, based on their super short versions of the A-Bolt II and Model 70 bolt actions. Most of its velocity advantage over the standard .243 Winchester is lost in the short barrels, 21-inch and 22-inch barrels, that are being fitted by Browning and Winchester. Where is the niche?

Warrior

I think it is a great cartridge. I like the case design. Accurate and no feeding problems for me. Short & Fat is where its at!

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
The PPC was actually intended for single shot target rifles and not for magazine rifles.

I find a great deal of humor in that statement. Being, of course, that the PPC is based off the 7.62x39/220 Russian.

quote:

Originally posted by Blair338/378:
The little fat bastards won't feed in a Winchester

That's odd. No problems in my M70 Featherweight. Or the other 3 CRF ones that I know of. Maybe it's the CRPF ones with the problems?

Shoots about 0.8 MOA, with the factory 100 Power Points, easy to carry.

However, it doesn't do anything my old 243 didn't do just as well. Like people have said, the WSSM's are an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem. The only reason I bought one was I just could not find an M70 in 243 Win.

quote:

Like people have said, the WSSM's are an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.

Yes, as was the 270, 280, 300Win, 25/06, 7-08, and practically every other cartridge introduced in the last 75 years.

The same could be said of the "new" model vehicles introduced every year by the auto makers.

Companies introduce new products to improve their sales....not to solve "problems".

My 25WSSM won't do anything that my 25/06, 257AI,257 Bob,(or any one of numerous rifles)won't do. But I it's marginally smaller and lighter. And I like it.

It's not a matter of solving "problems", or meeting "needs". Those were 95% solved and met by the 30/06. But I for one am glad that we are offered options....it's been fun "messin'" with lots of different rifles and cartridges...many of which admittedly overlap in their application.

No argument here, I'm very happy with my Featherweight.
But the WSSMs are not the fire breathing dragon slayers that the gun pimps in the press made them out to be. And ammo is getting hard to find here in OZ. Lucky I stocked up on loaded rounds and cases...

I didn't know it can't even out do the 6mm, what a joke, its hightly worthless, I had a buddy set on buying a used one last week, luckily I talked him into a 243 instead, I told him he would have a lot of trouble finding ammo for it in the coming years, so he had better plan on hand load only, the only usefullness I see for it is a zippy cartridge to be used in an AR 15

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

Like people have said, the WSSM's are an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.

Yes, as was the 270, 280, 300Win, 25/06, 7-08, and practically every other cartridge introduced in the last 75 years.

The same could be said of the "new" model vehicles introduced every year by the auto makers.

Companies introduce new products to improve their sales....not to solve "problems".

My 25WSSM won't do anything that my 25/06, 257AI,257 Bob,(or any one of numerous rifles)won't do. But I it's marginally smaller and lighter. And I like it.

It's not a matter of solving "problems", or meeting "needs". Those were 95% solved and met by the 30/06. But I for one am glad that we are offered options....it's been fun "messin'" with lots of different rifles and cartridges...many of which admittedly overlap in their application.

Sorry I was so blunt about my feelings on the short rounds, I could have been more articulate and less opinionated. Just because they don’t fill any needs in my world, doesn’t mean that they done fill the needs of someone else.

Some of the short rounds are going to be around for a while. We’ll see which ones survive the “short Magnum†dog fight, as far as sales go. Right now the gun manufacturers are throwing “stuff†on the wall and seeing if any of it sticks. My problem with that is the guys that buy those rounds that don’t sell, are stuck with a rifle they can’t buy ammunition for after a while.

Think about one thing, if the 30-06 is the perfect round? Why isn’t the whole world still fighting wars with it?

Mick, on your "Think about it" question, it seems that the military figured out it only takes a 22 to disable a human. In war it is better to maim and cripple than it is to kill. Wounded soldiers take other soldiers out of the fray to deal with them. 22's do that nicely. The 30-06 was back when we went to war to kill folks with rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by D Hunter:
Mick, on your "Think about it" question, it seems that the military figured out it only takes a 22 to disable a human. In war it is better to maim and cripple than it is to kill. Wounded soldiers take other soldiers out of the fray to deal with them. 22's do that nicely. The 30-06 was back when we went to war to kill folks with rifles.

Very true, one wounded man takes himself and at least 1 if not 2 people out of the battle, not to mention that a soldier can carry 3 times the ammo for the same amount of weight. Which only proves the point that the 30-06 is not the perfect round.

I went antelope hunting for 5 days a couple of weeks ago. I fired 1 round of 7mm Mag ammunition at 1 antelope opening day and that was it. For the next 4 days I fire 357 rounds of center fire ammunition at other animals. I would have not fired that many rounds with a 30-06 at prairie dogs.

If you say that the 30-06 is adequate for 95% of all North American big game, I agree with you but big game is such a small percentage of all the hunting in North America.

I have a chance to hunt big game for 2 or 3 weeks out of the year and I can only take 3 animals (1 antelope, 1 deer, and 1 elk). In a good year, that’s only 3 shots. That doesn’t even come close to registering on my hunting scale.

The wssm's offer a case design proven in the war of benchrest competition and an extremely ridgid short fat action which aids accuracy. All wssm's I know of have produced more than expected accuracy.

I have no problem with any of the short magnums, super short magnums, or ultra magnums for that matter. After the Hype from the gun magazines over this or that super new cartridge that doesn’t sell, what are they going to say about it then?

What are the “Gun Writers†going to say about the failure of a cartridge that doesn’t make the grade in a few years from now, and people can’t buy practical ammunition for it anymore?

This is just a question.

I love the WSM's and have rifle(s) in 270,7mm and 300 WSM. However I do not have the same affinity for the WSSm's. A year or so ago I had the opportunity to pick up a heavy barrelled laminate stocked Winchester coyote in 243 wssm at a super price. Did my usual barrell break in,(300 strokes of bronze brush w/jb bore paste/kroil mix) trigger work and fore-end prep, bought dies, brass and proceeded to do some load testing. The following are the results of several loads.








I guess the results are OK for an off the shelf rifle. However I never could get used to the ugly clunky laminate stock on the coyote, and as I remember, I had feeding problems with the short fat cases, and resizing the brass was a bitch. I almost never sell a rifle, but I think I had this one about three months before I sold it for a profit at a local gun show. That was my foray into wssm's.
GWB

quote:

and as I remember, I had feeding problems with the short fat cases, and resizing the brass was a bitch.

Some people in this thread mentioned that they had no feeding problems with the .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum or .243 WSSM. It is widely known that Winchester had a problem initially with their push-feed actions, and that is why they to amended their action to better feed the short and fat cases, and the worst of the bunch was in fact the .243 WSSM as its case is "super" short when compared to the 300 WSM for instance. Short fat cases with an abruptly angled shoulder have a history of being difficult to feed properly from the magazines of some rifles. Point is, it is a finicky round, and if reloading the case is also more finicky than other rounds, and it is prone to other difficulties in maintaining the cases, then why bother - it will just take the fun out of it.

Warrior

quote:

What are the “Gun Writers†going to say about the failure of a cartridge that doesn’t make the grade in a few years from now, and people can’t buy practical ammunition for it anymore?

They are simply going to blame the public for not supporting the new "enhanced" offerings. They get paid to write their articles and stand in a much closer relationship to the manufacturer and the gun magazine than the public (the target market).

Warrior

My friend has one and I was able to take a few shots with it at the range. I really liked it! Very flat shooting, no recoil, etc.

I invited him on a hog hunt a week or so later and he took a 60lb hog with it at 100 yards.


I'd get one if I wasn't already preoccupied with trying to get a DGR and my nephew a deer rifle where ammo is easier to find

I'm with Seafire.

Mine has never had any feeding problems, but neither has any of the past WSM model 70 rifles that I've owned, either. But my 243 WSSM has crf, and is the ultimate shadow model. Feeds just fine and shoots even better. With factory Winchester 100-grain Power Point ammuntion, I can cover the 3-shot groups with a dime over and over again, but that's with using a Caldwell's lead sled with about 20 lbs. of shot.

A friend of mine has the same rifle and he used it to kill a nice interior grizzly last year with the same ammunition. Two quick shots and the bear was down. The griz squared a little over 7'.

I’m sure the 243 WSSM works fine. It’s flat shooting, hard hitting, and all that stuff. Does it really hit harder, shoot flatter than a 243 or a 6mm Rem?

Just a question

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I’m sure the 243 WSSM works fine. It’s flat shooting, hard hitting, and all that stuff. Does it really hit harder, shoot flatter than a 243 or a 6mm Rem?

I think we all know the answer to that question, and that is a NO. But we can ask the same question about the 300 Win. Mag. and 300 WSM for example.

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I’m sure the 243 WSSM works fine. It’s flat shooting, hard hitting, and all that stuff. Does it really hit harder, shoot flatter than a 243 or a 6mm Rem?

I think we all know the answer to that question, and that is a NO. But we can ask the same question about the 300 Win. Mag. and 300 WSM for example.

Very true Moose-Hunter,

I was talking to a retired gunsmith at the gun range yesterday. He sold his equipment to his friend that setup shop out of state a few years ago.

A few other shooters joined the conversation it wasn’t long before the subject of short magnums came up (I swear it wasn’t me!). I didn’t find anything surprising about these guy’s opinions, pretty much a “we’ll see which ones are still around in a few years†attitude. What was surprising was what the retired gunsmith said. His out of state friend is re-barreling more rifles to 300 Ultra Mag than any other caliber.

I find it interesting that while some people are arguing the merits of the short mags, there are numbers of people going the opposite way.

Yesterday I went over to the guy's house who helped me get my elk this year. He showed me the mule deer rack his son bagged the other day with one shot from his new 243 wssm. It was a 5 x 6 that is so far the biggest rack to come out of this county. If it stays the biggest he gets a shoulder mount done free by a local taxidermist. The boy's dad stood by with his 7mm mag ready but the deer dropped stone dead from the 100 grain 6 mm bullet. Right now there's people deer and other big game hunting from all over the country in this area.

Congratulations to the young hunter. He was in the right place at the right time. (Wish I were there too watch, that would have been fun).

He was shooting a 243 WSSM and it did what it was designed to do.

So what? Is it god’s gift too the 6mm world? Sales will tell.

quote:

So what? Is it god’s gift too the 6mm world? Sales will tell.

Not likely! I really enjoy mine and don't plan on selling it, but I firmly believe the 243 WSSM will be a cartridge that comes and goes in the gun world.

its good for necking up to a 6.5

quote:

Originally posted by Moose-Hunter:

quote:

So what? Is it god’s gift too the 6mm world? Sales will tell.

Not likely! I really enjoy mine and don't plan on selling it, but I firmly believe the 243 WSSM will be a cartridge that comes and goes in the gun world.

I hope you have many fine hunts with it.