I have heard guys say one is better than the other but am rarely given a good explanation.

I have 2 243's, a 264 Win Mag and a 270 yet I still want a 25-06! Talk me off the ledge or give me a reason to jump, I'm all ears

Drum

Drummond, I don't have either myself but have hunted with quite a few folks shooting one or the other and in my opinion the 25-06 is a better choice because of heavier bullets being available.

I am probably wrong on this since I have never been a fan of the .243 but I think the heaviest bullet weight availabe for the .243 is 115 grains. I hope someone will correct me on that. I believe the heaviest .257 diameter bullets come in 120 grain.

Admittedly 5 more grains of bullet weight and .014thousandths more diameter should not make that much difference, but personally I like the .257's over the .243's Lora uses a .257 Robert's and the difference from personal observation between it and the .243 on similarly placed shots on like sized animals, is negligable.

The only real difference or edge I can see with the .25-06 would be slightly higher velocity with the accompanying increased energy.

Apart from my own personal preferences/prejudices I don't really think that you and whatever you shot with either would be able to discern any real big performance difference between the two. JMO.

Drum,

Don't Jump, Buddy, we're gonna talk you off the ledge ..... simply too much to make life worth living for ..... like 25-06's!

Nice of you to afford us an opportunity because most of us AR Guys verge on being pretty shy.

I've no expereince with a .264 Win Mag only the 6.5x55; so I can't offer anything constructive there.

The 243 Win, 25-06 Rem & 270 Win lend themselves well to European sized game, Chinese Water Deer (tiny) Muntjac (not much larger) Roe Deer (small) Fallow, Sika (tough animal, I prefer .308" caliber) and yes, even with the 243 Win, Red Deer where we are begining getting into reasonably large(er) sized Deer. The 6mm's are illegal for "Big Game" (includes all Deer other than Roe Deer) hunting here in The Fatherland; 6.5mm is the smaller caliber allowed but I've shot alot of Roe, Fallow & Red Deer in the UK with these cartridges and if you do your part - they perform just fine. My personal minumum for dedicated Wild Boar is a 270 Winchester with 150 grainers, so sometimes you gotta juggle for what could be on the Menu vs. what you've got in your hands & what's legal.

Having said all that my travel rifle here in Europe for the past coupla years is a 25-06 Remington with either 80 or 100 gr. Barnes TTSX's; I prefer the 100's depending on the size of the Deer I'm after although I'm starting to make a move up to the 110, 115, 117 & 120 grain bullets in this cartridge beacuse they seem pack just that much more authority. Right now the 115 gr. CT Ballsitic Silvertips are showing real promise.

Other than Scotland or the Alps long-g-g shots aren't the norm here so the ranging capabilty of all of these cartidges you mention aren't critical for me although they are all capable of pulling off reasonably longish-h-h shots with the right bullet if required and at >300 meters Deer the size of Fallow will succumb easy with a properly placed .243 Win 100 gr. bullet.

I use 243 Win. 25-06 Rem & 270 Win. extensively and they're all great cartridges. I especially like both the 25-06 & 270 for the game I hunt but at the end of the day simply stated the .270 Winchester with a good 130 (for me especially, the Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips) or 150 gr. (Nosler Partition) bullet is much more of a better thing than the .243 Win or 25-06 Rem for some hunting IMO. Don't forget my stash of carefully hoarded 130 gr. Winchester Silvertips, either, I just scored +700 of them (The Motherlode) from a secret location!



Does that mean you shouldn't fullfil your 25-06 Remington desire - Hell, No, have at it, you'll like it, reasonable recoil, Point & Click to 300 meters (w/correct sighting-in) & good component selection. If there's any downside it would be in a sporter weight barrel they seem to heat up very quickly and it is a LOUD Boomer - well at least to me anyway in my 57.7cm (22.7") barrel. Would I have preferred a 24" tube? Yeah, but Blaser doesn't make it.

For the game you'll most probably encounter in your neck of the woods the >100 grain bullets will probably be optimal. As the other cartridges mentioned it also would lend itself well to some long range varminting with the right bullet selection also. What's not to like?

As ever there is a lot of good sense in what GERRY says in his post.

I have a friend with a 25-06 and he rates it very highly using 117 grain bullets. A sort of 257 Roberts with a little bit extra velocity.

I don't as I have a 6mm Remington and a 270 Winchester. I use 100 grain bullets in the 6mm Remington (the legal minimum bullet weight in some parts of Great Britain for some deer) and 150 grain bullets in the 270 Winchester.

So for me the 25-06 is "neither fish nor fowl or even good red herring" (as an old teacher used to say).

It doesn't do anything that the 6mm Remington won't do..except use more powder...with a 100 grain bullet yet, at the same time, won't do what the 270 Winchester won't do BETTER with a 150 grain bullet. Or 130 or 140 grain bullet.

So for me I see no need of the extra cost of dies, bullet components, cases, etc.

If it is a superb bespoke ("custom") rifle offered at a bargain price then maybe consider it. If not I'd pass.

In fact I'd consider a 7mm-08 a more useful "gap filling" rifle for DRUMMONDLINDSEY as it gives a whole catalogue of very useful 7mm diameter bullets....in those upper weight sizes yet still having bullets in the 140 grain range.

Which, to be honest, has ALWAYS handicapped the 264 and 270. In fact DRUMMONDLINDSEY might even consider a 7x57 or a 7x64!

Or why not stick with "All American" and get a good, accurate, 280 Remington? I also have a rifle in that calibre rate it highly.

The last thing I worry about anymore is worring about overlap cartridges or comparing one versus another. If you want a 25-06, then get a 25-06. It's just that simple.

I have so many overlap cartridges and rudundant caliber cartirdges that I've realized that variety is the spice of life. Shooting many different rounds and taking game with them adds to your own expertise and future decision making. Good luck with it and be sure to post pics when you bring it home!

One thing to add, and this is just for information, here in the states, as far as I know, if there is a minimum caliber restriction it usually is .243 and larger.

Unless it has changed since 2005, in Colorado it is perfectly legal to use the .243 for elk and I know of folks that have or do hunt elk with the .243 and the 25-06.

So far, all the discussion here has been centered on hunting large game. Surprising, since these discussions generally involve large game vs varmints. This is the real overlap of these two. I have and do own quite a few of both, and it is really pretty easy. If you want a varmint/small game round that you will shoot a lot while also taking a few deer or antelope, the 243 is best. If you hunt a lot of deer/antelope and sometimes shoot a few varmints, the 25-06 is the choice. If it had to be one or the other, it would be the 243. In my mind, the 243 is a really good varmint round that can dispatch deer reliably. The 25-06 is a better deer round but just too much to be a serious varmint rifle. I personally think both of them will kill elk, but don't think they should be asked to except in unexpected circumstances.

Personally, for varmints/deer or elk or anything I else I get a shot at, I PREFER my .375 H&H, but that was not one of the choices.

It is one of those apples vs. oranges concepts between the .243 and the .25-06 imo.

I agree with Art, but since you already have the 243's you do need a 25 caliber to "bridge the gap".

The 25-06 was obviously a very popular wildcat or Remington would not have adopted it. Apparently sales of 25-06 have been good. All this without Jack O'Connor singing the praises of it too. But I don't like them. Shows you what I know. To me it was a fine answer, but there was no question. I agree that there is nothing it does that the .270 doesn't do better and I never have owned a .270. Recoil wise a .270 with 130 grainer and 25-06 with 120 grainer they are identical. The 25-06 has more blast and makes recoil seem higher. Despite the fact that the 25-06 has the edge in velocity over a .257 Roberts, I do like the Roberts. I do like the .243. So you already have a .270 and you have 2--.243's. I can't think of a situation where you'd be better served with the 25-06 and leaving either one of those two home. So the answer is simple--don't buy a 25-06--buy a .257 Roberts because Carpetman likes them. You know what it will do that the .243 or .270 wont do? Well it will shoot .257 Roberts ammo and neither of the other two will. BTW elk wont know the difference of a few thousandths bullet diameter if placed in right spot.

All of my experiences have been with Alabama deer, 80-200 pounds. I've killed well over 100 with a 25/06, prolly 60-70 with a 243, another 30 er so with a 264.

243..25/06 the 25 wins hands down, esp loaded with 100gr Partitions at 3300fps. That load kills faster and penetrates better than any 243 load I've used.

I've had good results with the 243 but I'm more consertative with my shots than I am with the 25/06, as in distance, angle, etc

troy

I have used the .243 and the .25-06 and a .264 Magnum and have killed deer with all three.....and to date can't honestly say one is better than the other.....

I consider the .243 a better varmint round than the other two however as the 55 grain offerings do a mighty splendid job on prairie dogs.

None of the above rounds are truly elk rounds IMO (some will debate that) so as far as I'm concerned....if you have one then you have them all.....this from a guy with a .243, a 6mm Rem, a .257 Roberts, a .25-06, and a .264 Mag.....

If practicality was an issue....few folks would own anything but a .30-06!

I have had both. I still have the 25/06 and consider it a fantastic cartridge for coyotes through all deer.
I shot some deer with the 243 and recovered all of them, but it seemed quite a bit less effective.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
The last thing I worry about anymore is worring about overlap cartridges or comparing one versus another. If you want a 25-06, then get a 25-06. It's just that simple.

I have so many overlap cartridges and rudundant caliber cartirdges that I've realized that variety is the spice of life. Shooting many different rounds and taking game with them adds to your own expertise and future decision making. Good luck with it and be sure to post pics when you bring it home!

+1 I'm there as well with the overlap.

I say get a .25-06 if you think you want one. I had a .243 and .270 Win rifles when I built my .25-06 and don't regret it. I even have a .250 Savage in the works. I don't have the .264 WM but I've added a 6.5X55 and 6.5-06 to my collection as well since I started building my .25-06 back in 2006.

Gentlemen let me say right off the bat, There is not a difference that a game animal can tell when hit properly with any of the three! With that being said, There are three diameters’ that I personally have never been able to warm up to, and the first on that list is the .25 caliber rounds in rifles or pistols and the second is the .277, and the only .264 I like is in the .264 Win Mag. With that said I absolutely lover the 243 Win cartridge, but with only one weight bullet. The 100 gr ,243 spitzer bullet with a flat base, and the two I like best are the Nosler Partition, and the Hornady 100 gr over an max load of H-4831sc at right around 2900-3000 fps from a Manlicher Shoenauer 1965MCA-243 rifle. I’ve killed about 100 Muledeer, a few prong horn, and two elk with that load and never had to shoot one twice, nor have I lost one shot with that load. As far as I’m concerned my success with the 243 Win in many different rifles types has, for proven to be one of the best deer antelope, and muflon calibers there is. That is not to say the others are not very good as well, just that the 243 Win is my choice.
Now of all the rifles I’ve owned chambered for the 243Win my all time favorite has been the Manlicher Shoenauer 1965MCA RIFLE,not the carbine. Mine was bought new and has had over 5000 rounds of hot handloads fired in it, and it will still put five rounds in under ½ inch at 100 yds every time, and the rotary magazine is as smooth as silk, as is the action and it is a CRF action on top of all that.

So I guess at this point you must realize I like the 243 Win cartridge! They're all good however!

………………………………………………………………………………………................................... .

Drummand


If you look in the Dictionary under the perfect antelope/pronghorn rifle there would be a picture of a .25-06' Thats a good reason isnt it.



Cal30

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rub Line:
The last thing I worry about anymore is worring about overlap cartridges or comparing one versus another. If you want a 25-06, then get a 25-06. It's just that simple.

I have so many overlap cartridges and rudundant caliber cartirdges that I've realized that variety is the spice of life. Shooting many different rounds and taking game with them adds to your own expertise and future decision making. Good luck with it and be sure to post pics when you bring it home![/QUOTE

Me 2! Makes me a very happy guy!

Go grab a 25-06! You only live once! And I'm biased toward 25-06. Never "liked" 243 and don't have a reason not to.

Given that you have the 243 and the 264 win., there is nothing that the 25-06 will do that the other two won't. The 264 is a better choice for larger game. The 243 is a little cheaper to load for varmits. I own both the 243 and 264 and would never concider a 25-06.
You don't need the 06., but NEED has nothing to do with it. Go ahead and jump, they're all fun to shoot.

Shot my first few deer with a Sako trg in 25-06. All very dead. I then bought a 243 as it was a nice left handed rifle - a heym sr20. 25 has a little more punch, but 243 has enough.

A friend had a 25-06 - but found it had too much velocity for roe deer, most of which are shot sub 100yds. He went back to 243.

QUOTE Originally posted by BISCUT :

QUOTE Originally posted by Rub Line:
The last thing I worry about anymore is worring about overlap cartridges or comparing one versus another. If you want a 25-06, then get a 25-06. It's just that simple.

I have so many overlap cartridges and rudundant caliber cartirdges that I've realized that variety is the spice of life. Shooting many different rounds and taking game with them adds to your own expertise and future decision making. Good luck with it and be sure to post pics when you bring it home!


Me 2! Makes me a very happy guy!

Go grab a 25-06! You only live once! And I'm biased toward 25-06. Never "liked" 243 and don't have a reason not to.


I don't worry about overlapping cartridges or rudundant caliber cartirdges either.

In the last six years or so I've grown to love my .257 Roberts and I also like my .25-06 Rem for longer range work. My .250 Savage also work very well.

I too never cared for the .243 Win.

I have shot several deer with a 243 and a 257 WBY. The wife has shot a lot of deer and antelope with the 243.

I have seen a lot of deer, and antelope shot with the 25-06, [and the 6mm Remington as well].

Out to 350 yards I have not been able to tell ANY difference in performance.

NONE...

They all kill great.

You can only kill an animal so dead...

So I would say, if you have one of the three, then you do not NEED another of the two...

I said NEED, which has nothing to do with WANT...

Get off the ledge, it will not do anything your 264 and 270 will do.

The only thing you would use it for above your 243's is easily handled by the 264 and 270.

But if you really want one, by all means, get one.

I think the .25-06 is one of my favorites! I purchsed, used, and fell in love with a .257 Roberts. Used it on everything from Ground Squirrels, Rock Chucks and Coyotes with light bullets to Mulies & Blacktails with 100's and heavier. I was enamored.
Years later I won a .25-06 at a banquet. It was a stainless synthetic, coated flat black with a camo stock. Being a push feed M70 I was thinking I'd trade it off. Well I was curious, so scoped it and started shooting it. I has become the most used rifle I own. It shoots the 115 to 120 gr bullets great, and hits hard enough that there is no noticeable difference between it and a .270.

My two younger boys have been using .243's but so far haven't taken any deer with them. They have been pretty hard on coyotes though. Nate

i love the 25-06 and i think it is the best 25 caliber cartridge. i think it works best in a 26'' barrel though and i don't understand why most factory 25-06 rifles don't have 26'' barrels. so i am planning on having AHR build a 25-06 with a 26'' barrel for me. i do like other 25 caliber cartridges a lot too like the .257 Roberts and .257 Wby and may get one of those one day also. i also have a Marlin in 25-20 that i reaaly like. i think you should definately get a 25-06.

You need to be careful. Quarterbores become addictive. My first was a 25/06, then a 250/3000,then a 250Ackley, then a 257Roberts, another 25/06, another Ackley. Who knows what's next.
I built my first 243 this winter. It's a varmint weight Savage110. It shoots paper and gongs great out to 545yds. We'll see what it does on PDs this June.
The only person who "needs" a rifle is the one who does not own one. The rest of us are always looking for our next one.
Get the 25/06. You won't be sorry.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

I have a 243, 25-06 x 2, 270 & 300wsm.

For me the 243 is mainly my headshooting rifle when contract culling it is my rifle of choice using 70gr Bt's which I use on all spieces of UK Deer as well as exotics such as Pere Davids and Barrasinga. It will also quite happily deal with chest shooting these animals if required. I have also chest shot a good number of sika with the 243. It is a good calibre and bullet weight for head shooting out to 250m so long as it is not too windy.

My 25-06 is my go to rifle and I have shot several thousand deer with it and 115gr BT's I also use it for head shooting it the weather is not so kind as there is less wind drift with this than the 243

quote:

I am probably wrong on this since I have never been a fan of the .243 but I think the heaviest bullet weight availabe for the .243 is 115 grains. I hope someone will correct me on that. I believe the heaviest .257 diameter bullets come in 120 grain.

Yes you are correct, however none of the off the shelf .243's to my knowledge have a twist rate fast enough to stablilise a 115gr, heaviest they will stabilise is a hunting weight 100 or 105gr bullet, where the off the shelf 25-06's have twists fast enough to stabilise the 120gr.

Either is fine. I prefer the .243 as mine is very accurate.

I have taken quite a few deer with the 264Mag, 270, 257R, 257AI, 25-06 and 243. The bullet is more important than the headstamp.

But I prefer the 25/06 to the 270. While there is zero difference in performance between the 270/130gr and the 25/06 120gr on deer, the recoil of the 25/06, IME, is just enough less that you can watch the bullet impact...a real positive to me.

I have a 243 and a 25-06, love em' both.

Drum, with a .243, and a .270 Win, you have everything from p-dogs to elk covered here in Colorado. A 25.06 would just be adding to the ground you already have covered. I would add a Thumper, say something in the .338 Win Mag area before a 25.06.

But if you have a .375 sitting in the safe, why not add a 25.06. Mount a 6.5-20 on it and make it your long range gun.

Here is what pushed me over the edge.


I did not have a 25-06 at the time..........


I saw this rifle.........




It took me less than a couple minutes to realize that I really needed a 25-06.

Best

GWB

I have used the .243 and the 6mm Rem and have brothers that use both too. I have also used the 25-06 even more. It is by far a better killer especially at ranges over 200 yards. If you use factory ammo the .243 has been reduced in performance about 10 or 15 years ago. I never got the performance with handloads they claim in factory ammo. The 25-06 is significantly flatter and penetrates much better. It is simple physics. I do like the 6mms for coyotes and jack rabbits but even then I prefer the 6mm Remington over the .243.
yeah you can shoot deer with a .243 but make sure you have a good open area to watch them run aways.

quote:

yeah you can shoot deer with a .243 but make sure you have a good open area to watch them run aways.

hmmmm...shot 5 deer last fall with a 243. All dropped straight down. Depends on where you hit them and what bullet you use.

I hunt thick, thorney brush in S. Texas and don't like crawling thru it to track deer. High shoulder shot with a good bullet drops them DRT.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:

quote:

yeah you can shoot deer with a .243 but make sure you have a good open area to watch them run aways.

hmmmm...shot 5 deer last fall with a 243. All dropped straight down. Depends on where you hit them and what bullet you use.

I hunt thick, thorney brush in S. Texas and don't like crawling thru it to track deer. High shoulder shot with a good bullet drops them DRT.

Yes and I imagine you shoot out of a blind. I am sure there are folks here that would say the same about a .223. I don't get it. A more effective round and rifle costs about the same money. I have several 6mms but I always use the 25-06 or something that kills better. I would rather use a .35 Remington at 100 yards or under. My deer don't always pose for a portrait.

I believe that a 25/06 with the 120gn Hornady HP @ 3100fps is about as close to perfect as you can get for deer up to and including the size of Red Deer. If that is the biggest game you shoot, then you can get by with only one rifle. I did for many years. Use 75gn bullets @ 3700fps or 85gn bullets @ 3550fps for varminting. If you want an intermediate round for smaller deer a 100gn bullet @ 3300fps is very effective. There is a very wide selection of bullets availble. You need a 24 inch barrel to get the best out of this calibre, and 26 inches is even better. A 25/06 is an excellent all round rifle, and I have regretted ever selling mine, and I will eventually get another.

SR4759

The bullet is more important than the headstamp. The 25/06 or 257AI with a 120gr Hornady HP, has been my favorite combo for whitetails for many years. Having said that, I am convinced that there is not much difference in field effectiveness among most of the cartridges used today. I haven't been able to tell the difference among a '06, 270, 280, 7-08, 25/06, 264, 243, etc. as long as the right bullet is used. I'll grant you that as the caliber goes down the bullet choice gets more important. But IME, a 243 with a 100gr Partition or even an 80gr TTSX gives up very little to a larger cartridge, for deer.

olarmy,
I agree that deer are mostly unlucky and you can kill them with anything. I have used a wide array of rifles and cartridges out of personal curiosity. Along with this came autopsies of me and my brother's deer. I agree that you can make do with a smaller caliber. I have never used premium bullets because the ordinary ones work in the rifles I shoot. I just use run of the mill bullets in adequate cartridges.

if game is under 200 yards, the 2506 just kicks more and makes more noise, than a 243 ..

and that from a big bore nut

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
if game is under 200 yards, the 2506 just kicks more and makes more noise, than a 243 ..

and that from a big bore nut

Only if you are shooting peewee deer from a blind. But then again you probably never shot 48 grains of 4831 out of a 6mm Remington. To me the concern with noise and recoil is kind of ticky tacky.