How many of you have used this round for deer, below is a picture of a sika stag taken with a CZ .22 hornet.

Here we go again......

I'm not advocating that a .22 Hornet is ideal it just happened to be the rifle that I had at the time I spotted the stag, the shot was only 60yds. One hears of people using .222 & .223 on deer but not so the hornet. I'm not sure whether it is because it lacks the power of its bigger .22 centrefire brothers.

Some famous hunter once shot an elephant with a .22LR fired from a Walther PPK.

One of the most disgusting incidents I've seen relate to the use of a 22 Hornet on deer. A few years ago, I was visiting and hunting on the family property in Georgia. My nephew had been keeping a secret, that a nice big buck had been hanging out on the farm, and he was hunting for it. Of course when I found out, I promised the lad I wouldn't shoot the buck, if I saw him.

What I didn't know was that a couple of the local farmer guys had planted some food plots next to my property just across a dirt road, in a corner of their leased property. The deer were using our family property as a bedroom, and playground, and the dinner table was across the dirt road. Furthermore, apparantly these farmer guys were renting a deer stand they built to guys from the big city. So, this dude/idiot was sitting in the stand (I refuse to call it hunting) one foggy morning when this big buck stepped out at the far end of the field - greater than 125 yards from the stand. Well, the dude poped him with his trusty humdinger 22 Hornet handyrifle single shot.

I heard the shot, and later that morning, after I had come in, put my 308 rifle away, had breakfast, and was walking to my brother's house for a visit, the big buck ran across the road in front of me, and I could see the limp. After the visit, as I was walking back, three guys came out of the woods, right where the buck had crossed earlier, which was at least a half mile from where he was shot. It was those two farmer guys and the dude/idiot. He was still carrying the 22 Hornet handyrifle, which I pretended to admire, so I could be sure it was actually a 22 hornet. I also found out that he was from a city up north. They were tracking the wounded deer and they were also on my property. After our conversation, and I explained that I had seen the deer, and it was running pretty good, they gave up and went away.

Later that afternoon, I jumped the buck who was bedded in a thicket not far from where I saw him cross the road. I didn't get a shot.

Next season, my nephew shot him, and the wound in his shoulder had mostly healed up, but the deer still limped, and his antlers were deformed.

So, the 22 hornet is not adequate for deer, IMO, based on that disgusting experience, and just plain common sense.

KB

It sounds that the light bullet shattered on the shoulder and lacked the penetration required to carry on into the chest cavity.

The old rule of 1,000 Ft-Lb at the muzzle isn't at all a bad rule.....and I'm guessing the .22 Hornet is about half that or a bit more.

Further most hornet bullets are designed as varminters.....thin jackets and not for penetration.

It'd work just fine as a "poaching" gun....but that's not hunting either.

Whilst on a hunt in Africa, one of the PHs had taken my wife out on a hunt, and they gave her a .22 Hornet and she shot an Impala, the PH was a bit of a .22 Hornet nut and was always chatting about various plains game he took with it. Interestingly the deer that I shot was in the neck and the ewe that my wife shot was also in the neck. Had it been in the chest I don't think it would of have dropped and could have possibly ran off and never to be recovered.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The old rule of 1,000 Ft-Lb at the muzzle isn't at all a bad rule.....and I'm guessing the .22 Hornet is about half that or a bit more.

Further most hornet bullets are designed as varminters.....thin jackets and not for penetration.

It'd work just fine as a "poaching" gun....but that's not hunting either.

I've been going by the rule of 1,000 ft lbs at the impact yardage. So, if the range is 200 yds, the deciding factor of whether the shot should be taken is whether the energy at 200 yds is 1,000 ft lbs or greater. That's just my criteria, FWIW.

KB

Here in the UK there is always a debate on .22 centrefires. In Scotland they are legal on roe (.223 is the min), and in the UK for chinese water deer and muntjac only. I personally use a .243 and a .300 wm.

quote:

Originally posted by Cumbrian:
Here in the UK there is always a debate on .22 centrefires.

There's always a debate going on here too about the .22 centerfires used on deer, and hogs. I'm generally always willing to enter the debate too, as long as it remains civil, but sometimes past that too.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I've been going by the rule of 1,000 ft lbs at the impact yardage. So, if the range is 200 yds, the deciding factor of whether the shot should be taken is whether the energy at 200 yds is 1,000 ft lbs or greater. That's just my criteria, FWIW.

KB

Sorry to hear about the suffering big buck due to an acute case of Gooberism.

Is it the fascination with "I wonder if it can be done" that causes folks to choose inadequate calibers or is it just a total lack of ballistic knowledge (ignorance, which is not necessarily an insult)?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Is it the fascination with "I wonder if it can be done" that causes folks to choose inadequate calibers or is it just a total lack of ballistic knowledge (ignorance, which is not necessarily an insult)?

Unlike Cumbrian, the guy in Georgia was ignorant - in the insulting sense. There was no excuse, IMO, for taking that shot on that deer. IMO, the guy shouldn't have been hunting deer with that rifle. That's why I refer to him as dude/idiot, and I don't call it hunting when it's a sure set-up for wounding deer.

I would have been aggrivated if the guy had just killed the deer outright, but to waste it through ignorance was far more than aggrivating. Naturally, I wanted my nephew to get it, and I especially didn't like it that the farmers were making money by leasing out a box stand over a food plot to dudes from the city. Wounding the buck just crossed the line to really disgust me and piss me off. I know the farmer guys well, since I grew up with them, and we a friends enough that they felt OK about following that deer onto my property. But I also know that they are opportunists and have a skewed version of ethics too.

KB

I have not a$$ shot many thousands of deer with a 22 hornet .. though i have slapped a couple turkeys and pigglets with one ..

I thought about getting a Hornet, especially in the CZ 527, which IMO is perhaps the best rifle out there (for the money) chambered in the Hornet. But instead, I got a 527 in 7.62x39, which just barely qualifies as a deer rifle, IMO, and for me it does everything the Hornet will do, and do a lot of things far better than the Hornet. I can't think of a better turkey and piglet rifle. It's cheap to shoot, easy to hand load for, very mild recoil and report. There's just not much to not like about the CZ 527 in 7.62x39, if its limitations are respected, and once past the backwards safety. As I said before, I shoot mine more often than all my other rifles combined, just because it's fun and cheap to shoot. But I do like bullets heavier than the 123 grs though.

After thinking about it, the 22 Hornet is a useless cartridge for my needs. It's too much meat damage for small game, and not enough energy for anything bigger than a piglet. Far better off with a 22 LR or 22 WRM. I have head shot spruce hens and snowshoe rabbits and some deer with my 7.62x39, and I have far more confidence in it than I could ever have with a 22 Hornet. Yet, I lost a hog I shot with it, but of course it was my fault, since the shot was too long, and I lacked experience with the cartridge, and got overconfident. I learned to limit the range to 100 - 125 yds at most, and pick shots very carefully. Under 75 yds is best.

KB

I have culled three Impala with a .22lr. many years ago. All were hit between the eye and the ear hole. I would say this is the one place to aim for with this size round and that size animal.


I went out and bought a Ruger No.1 in .218 Bee and a few boxes of Norma 50grain FMJ's with the plan to one day do it again.

Is the use of a 22 LR, 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, or any other 22 or lesser caliber on deer sized animals an effort to save money? Is cost the problem? If it is, I can understand that.

Is the use of the above rounds a “look at me, look at what I did”? So what! Get a bow and arrow, spear, or a blow tart and make it a real challenge.

Does your expertise with small caliber guns make you a superior hunter or marksman too people that use larger calibers? I wonder about the “in your face” stuff that gets posted here.

After all these years, I question why it’s such a big deal anymore if it isn’t a “look at me” or "in your face" complex.

quote:

Originally posted by Cumbrian:
How many of you have used this round for deer, below is a picture of a sika stag taken with a CZ .22 hornet.

Cumbrian

Nice shot and great photo, congrats.

Tell me more about your suppressor.

I had to spend Christmas in the smokies a couple years back. I found a operation where I could shoot a cow elk and a couple of pigs for $1000. I knew it would not be a hunt but only a way to put some meat in the freezer cheap.

While there this boozo brings his 5 year old grandson out to the field with a 22 hornet to shoot a axis deer. The kid was so small he need help pulling the trigger. First shot at 50 feet put it down, but it got back up and started to walk off, 5 more shots and just as many minutes
they were still trying to finish it. I offed him my 9.3 but he refused, stating it was the kids deer. What an ass!! What was he trying to teach that kid.

JD

The supressor was a Jet Z, very light weight,compact, and quiet. I beleive a company called A-Tec make one half the weight but reduces the sound even more.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Is the use of a 22 LR, 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, or any other 22 or lesser caliber on deer sized animals an effort to save money? Is cost the problem? If it is, I can understand that.

Where I was in the Save the only rifle available was a .22lr. That and the fact that a .22lr didn't stir up the herd was a major factor in its use. The locals prefered a .22 Hornet for culling work for the same reasons. In Europe and closely settled areas, the lack of noise and use of supressors to prevent disturbance to urban dwellers is required.

I have subsequently used that .218Bee almost exclusively in a very steep and narrow valley where the report of a larger calibre would scare away and condition other game.

Sometimes the environment and hunting situation determines the use of smaller calibres.

I'd have no problem taking medium game with a .22 if it was all I had and was presented a "slaughterhouse" shot.

But I wouldn't pick one out of the rack with the intention of going hunting for deer.

I think the issue is that we should not conflate perfomance on one type of deer (eg roe deer with all deer - like a northern whitetail).

The centrefire debate for game is vibrant in RSA as well, where many folks use them on springbuck etc. I have taken impala with a .223 (factory 55's and performce was less than ideal). With a good bullet I would use a Hornet on springbuck and mountian reedbuck, perhaps impala with an easy shot.

BUT, after shooting my first Alberta whitetail buck I was amazed at just how much bigger they are (mine was 2.5 years and close to 200lbs), but the density of hair and amazing amount of fat over the ribs puts this into a WAY diferent league than an impala, which runs 120lbs, has thin hair and very little fat for the bullet to pass through.
As far as the larger northern whitetails go I would say that a .223 is to an impala what a .243 is to those big wt bucks.

In short I would shoot a WT with a hornet -50yrds, solid rest in the brain!

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Is the use of a 22 LR, 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, or any other 22 or lesser caliber on deer sized animals an effort to save money? Is cost the problem? If it is, I can understand that.

Where I was in the Save the only rifle available was a .22lr. That and the fact that a .22lr didn't stir up the herd was a major factor in its use. The locals prefered a .22 Hornet for culling work for the same reasons. In Europe and closely settled areas, the lack of noise and use of supressors to prevent disturbance to urban dwellers is required.

I have subsequently used that .218Bee almost exclusively in a very steep and narrow valley where the report of a larger calibre would scare away and condition other game.

Sometimes the environment and hunting situation determines the use of smaller calibres.

Although I've not tried it, I think the 7.62x39 or the 303 can be effectively suppressed, to the point that one can't tell the difference in the noise, especially subsonic which would actually be quiter than a suppressed Hornet, and I believe a subsonic 180 gr .311 bullet is far more effective than a full power 22 Hornert 45 gr bullet or certainly the 22lr. It would be relatively easy to make a 180 gr .311 subsonic load in the 7.62x39.

Frankly I think you are just making excuses to use the hornet or 218.

KB

Why would you possibly want to use a .22 hornet on deer? You need a larger cal. The .25ACP fills the bill and comes in such a handy package.

Some people are recoil sensitive, I know that I am.

Using the .22 Hornet to hunt deer is a stunt that is inhumane. The .22 Hornet is a good small varmint cartridge with a 175-200 yd. limit. I have a Ruger 77 in Hornet which I love for close range prairie dogs, but that's the limit of it. A true sportsman would not risk wounding a fine game animal in order to try to prove his exceptional prowess as a hunter.

I know a farmer in WV that has hunted with a 22 mag since he was probably 20 yrs old, now he is in his 60's...

He refuses to use anything else. He fills his tags every single year and hasnt lost a deer in over 15 years. A single 22 Mag shot into the heart. Deer runs about 40-70 yrds and drops cold. Of course he knows how to shoot a gun too, so this probably helps. I have personnaly seen him shoot 4 deer this way. Usually his shots are from 40-75 yrds and always right into the heart. If he cant shoot it int he heart he doesnt shoot it. He doesnt trophy hunt, he hunts so he can survive. And he says a box of 50 22 mag shells will last him half the year of hunting.

Cumbrian,

I think the answer to your question is that the North Americans won't, as that is part of their hunting culture over there and most of the rest of the world would.

It's only for use by crack marksman who are prepared to wait for the right opportunity for the correct shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
Cumbrian,
It's only for use by crack marksman who are prepared to wait for the right opportunity for the correct shot.

Or another way to see it is:

either it's for those who fancy themselves that way - crack marksmen with patience for the right shot,

or

those who are idiots.

with very little room in between, and to others often it's tuff to tell the difference, except by being generous with the benefit of doubt.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Code4:
Cumbrian,

I think the answer to your question is that the North Americans won't, as that is part of their hunting culture over there and most of the rest of the world would.

It's only for use by crack marksman who are prepared to wait for the right opportunity for the correct shot.

Culling is a strange concept for a lot of American deer hunters. Hunting pressure and competition are will known concepts though. Competition makes a 22 less attractive for a lot of western American hunters.

After all, it’s “It's only for use by crack marksman who are prepared to wait for the right opportunity for the correct shot.”

Here in the west we let “Tree Hungers” cull our elk and deer herds for us by importing wolves. Wolves complete that job pretty quickly.

all I can say is " Have some respect for the animal you are hunting." 22 hornet would barely make it through the hair, skin, and fat layers here in S. Dak. and it would be illegal to use it according to state laws

I also know lots of people that hunt Wild HOg and Deer with the 22-250. Just because the guns can be super lightweight with little no no recoil. But still pack plenty of power to kill the animal.

Think I read somewhere that the chambering of CHOICE by poachers in Africa is the 22 Hornet.
I wouldn't think they have any concern for how humane their kills are.

The claim of "light weight" for an excuse to use an inadequate cartridge for big game is a sure sign of Gooberism.

The Browning Mountain TI weighs in at 5.5 lbs and is chambered in appropriate calibers.

There are plenty of others as well.

quote:

Brando
one of us

Posted 06 April 2010 09:29 Hide Post
I also know lots of people that hunt Wild HOg and Deer with the 22-250. Just because the guns can be super lightweight with little no no recoil. But still pack plenty of power to kill the animal.

========================================
Future 500 AR owner
"Dont be afraid of the recoil, be afraid of what your buddies will say when you tell them you missed"
Posts: 227 | Location: Kunsan AFB, South Korea | Registered: 02 August 2009

Your post contrasted with your signature is really funny!

What I don't understand is; why even bother? If it's deer season why would you carry anything other than a rifle suitable for a humane kill? You won't catch me or I hope anyone else around here with a 300 Win. mag squirrel hunting unless you have some type of strange explosion fetish or like to watch things simply disappear. So why a 22 Hornet or 223 or 22-250. Ya they can all kill a deer with the right shot, right range and right bullet, it's been proven! But WHY?, why take the chance of maiming and losing a deer just to have it suffer? I'm not indicating anything here nor am I implying the same, but it seems to me that the words "I just happen to have it with me" sounds like a little extra circular off-season hunting activity.

When I lived in Memphis, I knew a little old lady that lived in lauderdale County north of Memphis. Each fall this LOL would put her blaze orange trooper's cap on (along with her house dress) and walk up to a small orchard she owned. There she would sit quietly in a kitchen chair that was there for that purpose. Soon she would shoot a spike or a two by. Then she would walk back to the house and use her riding lawn mower to pull the deer home where she would put it up. She did this every year that I knew her.
Her weapon of choice?? A single shot .22LR rifle with iron sights.
This example of one proves beyond a doubt that the .22LR is totally adequate for shooting deer and anyone that wants to take a kid hunting or anyone that is recoil shy should be outfitted with a .22. The light weight and the absence of recoil would mean that bullet placement could be made with precision. And that's all that really counts. Right??

quote:

This example of one proves beyond a doubt that the .22LR is totally adequate for shooting deer

Look, I don't mean to cause any ill will here nor do I wish to demean anyone, but to say a .22LR is proven adequate for deer is just simply ridicules! Kudos for Grandma and I'm sure her aim was true and especially close. There has been lots of deer killed with a .22LR but the circumstances were surely pristine. In my opinion any body taking a .22LR (by-the-way illegal in most states) into the woods to sack a deer should probably undergo a cranial cat-scan.

I got nothin!

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:

quote:

This example of one proves beyond a doubt that the .22LR is totally adequate for shooting deer

Look, I don't mean to cause any ill will here nor do I wish to demean anyone, but to say a .22LR is proven adequate for deer is just simply ridicules! Kudos for Grandma and I'm sure here aim was true and especially close. There has been lots of deer killed with a .22LR but the circumstances were surely pristine. In my opinion any body taking a .22LR (by-the-way illegal in most states) into the woods to sack a deer should probably undergo a cranial cat-scan.

Hey WhatThe!

wasbeeman's post is meant to show the absurdity of it all...he's joking.