Lord, all I need is another handgun to load for. I have a good selection guns to choose from, and all of them use my light target hand loads. I practice for IDPA with my Colt Combat Elit ,with ammo loaded to 9mm target loads specs. I'm building a twin to it in 45acp, and it will be damn near identical when it's done.

I came across a Colt Trooper in 22 LR, and it's perfect for wheel gun practice.
I built this Python for IDPA. Once again I leave it in the safe. I still have the original grips and front sights, and it has the best DA trigger I have seen in a revolver. Just like the 29-2, It's just worth way to much money chance a scratch on it.That's a shame too. The trigger in single action is exactly like shooting a Jewell trigger.


Here's the 29-2. I bought it from a officer that since his wife to my Concealled Carry Class. It was his fathers safe queen. His dad shot it once, and he did the same. No box tho, dammit.

If I would happen to shoot another IDPA match, I have a Kimber Team USA, that also has full IPSC gear if needed. I also have a twin to it in 38 super.

So I'm well covered on light shooting handguns.
As for the 22-250, I must admit I traded mine last year. I had one of the Remingtons that was made with Boyd's thumbhole stocks, Jewell trigger, SS metal. I never got a chance to see if it would stabalize the larger bullets. I was offered a SAA Colt, early 2nd edition, made in 1956 in 38 Special. It had all of the Colt documents. I couldn't pass that up. At the same time I got a Colt Cowboy, never turned for $500.
So that's 2 more safe queens.

montdoug wrote:

quote:

In Montana it's legal to use a .22 long rifle for elk, we have no caliber restrictions. I don't shoot big game with these calibers cause as was mentioned above I don't have to wound an animal to know frangible bullets aren't designed for big game. I don't need any first hand experience with stepping out in front of a speeding train either to tell ya it's a bad idea but you might, so have fun.

---

Well said! I couldn't agree more. After all, this all boils down to the FACT that the .204 loads out there are designed for vermin and varmints. Instead of arguing, I wish these guys would just talk to the manufacturer of the bullets -- but then they'd probably argue with them, too, since they have no "experience" with these fragile flyweights on big game.

For what it's worth, there was an article in G&A a year or so back where Kevin Steele took a CZ .204 to Africa. He knocked off blesbok, warthog and it seems like impala with the Hornady 40 gr load. Some of you may remember the article. I'd have to do some digging to find it. I don't own a .204 and am neither promoting it or denouncing it for big animals but Kev spoke pretty highly of it, for what that's worth....

It's just MHO that those using a .204 or .224 for that matter on deer have a way to go into the maturation process. Been there. Done that. Bad scene!!! roger

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
This was pre-factory .17 bullets so the bullets were all lathe turned solid copper billets with little hollow points drilled in em as El Deguello mentioned.

Maybe here is the hint, someone should make him up some lathe-turned solid copper bullets for the .204, which is after all, 0.020" smaller in diameter than a .223 Remington.

The Army once issued me a Colt Officers' Model 6" barreled .38 Special for use on a pistol team. It was one of those "single action only" versions, and man, was it accurate. At least as good as the Clak converted .38 Super with extended front sight that I had at that time......

Hey Gene, That sure is a fine "looking" pistol and both revolvers.

Twelve-fifteen years ago I rode over to Raleigh and went to the Dixie Deer Classic with a buddy. I ended up buying a 22LR Kimber. Absolutely mesmerizing to look at it. The Walnut(termite food) stock had a good bit of Red in it and the Blue Steel(constantly ready to begin rusting) gave the appearance that you could "reach into" the Bluing because the barrel was so well polished. Trigger broke like a glass pipette. And it was pretty accurate.

Had to handle it as if I was wearing Kid Gloves. Kept it on a separate Blanket at the Range where it would be difficult to drop something onto the rifle. Had bought it with the intention of Hunting Squirrels. Couldn't possibly get past the idea of a Drop of Sweat or Water dripping off a tree and going between the Termite Food and the Rusting Blue Barrel. Even had trouble just getting that rifle into a Shearling(fake) lined Gun Case because it had a metal zipper, thinking it "might" mar the Termite Food.

Put up with it for about 2 1/2yrs and traded it for two other rifles. Both of the rifles I swapped for have been great in the Rain and don't require special handling.

So, I understand your reluctance to take the Python or the S&W outside. Sounds like you really need to either just go buy or swap into something you can Hunt with if the down-loaded 7mmRemMag is out of the question.

A "Working" Revolver or Rifle would go right well with what you have.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
It's just MHO that those using a .204 or .224 for that matter on deer have a way to go into the maturation process. Been there. Done that. Bad scene!!! roger

From this post I would guess that your opinion is that P.O. Ackley was still going through his maturation process. Interesting at his age and EXPERIENCE.

Quote
Hot Core.
I can understand Gene wanting to be in the Hunt.

Rodger that!
Nice looking hand boomers Gene. That .22 Wheelgun ya mentioned perked my ears, we have infestations of Richardsons ground squirrels out here (we call em gophers), ya need a hand gun for when your driving around the pasture and they sneak in close.
The Smith and the Colt bring back fond memory's (several 29's), they fall in the category of ones that got away....that shouldn't have! Ya get to thinking ya need something else worse. Unfortunately I never seem to see the mistake till after I made it. I can tell later whens it's happened when I have fond memory's of what I traded but can't for the life of me remember what I traded it for.
Gene I can't remember if ya mentioned it, but how's your left shoulder? Maybe re-learn to shoot lefty? Ain't easy at first but after ya practice a bit you can damn sure shoot minute of deer at 200 yards. Just a thought.

Bobby.
"QUOTE"
I use it here in Texas for all sorts of game, including wild hogs,
That there sounds like a gas Bobby. I shot a Javelina one with a Single Six Ruger in .22 Mag at about 20 yards when I lived in Arizona for a while. They sure ain't very big but that was a lot of fun. Tasty too, made some dandy chile verde!

Hot Core
"QUOTE"
We have about any kind of terrain a person could want to Hunt. I do like the Swamps with a slow meandering creek, because the Deer are typically more relaxed easing through, as opposed to the edge of a Woods/Open Field. We have mountains, coastal plains and crop fields that might run for 1/2-2miles.

Sounds beautiful Hot Core, both for hunting and "fishing" (getting ready for the future ).
At the risk of giving up just how twisted I really am I gotta tell ya you got something else there that really blows my hair back, SNAKES! I love catching snakes. I don't hurt em, just pin em down pick em up and check em out. Then I cut em loose. Been doing it since I was a kid. You catch a PO'd 4 ft Diamond Back on a warm day when he's got all his juices up and that'll really get yer blood pumping. I caught a Malayan Krait once in Southeast Asia All the troopers were checking it out and the the Corpsman walked over and recognized what it was (I already knew), he came near having a brown out in his skivvys. Serious reptile. We don't have but one subspecies of rattler in Montana, the Prairie Rattler, not rel big and not very aggressive, kinda boring actually. Ahh....Adrenaline...makes life worth while. Like Bobby Tomek hunting hogs with a handgun, gets yer blood moving.
I digress, sorry.

Bartsche
"Quote"
It's just MHO that those using a .204 or .224 for that matter on deer have a way to go into the maturation process. Been there. Done that. Bad scene!!!

My opinion too Sir.

Read an article years ago in one of the gun magazines on the 5 stages of hunting, wish I'da kept it. It talked about the progression of a hunter starting out who just wants to kill something! Through the stages of his transformation into becoming a real "Sportsman".
"I'M NOT AIMING THAT AT ANYONE"!!! Just reflecting on a good read about our sport.
P.S.
Bartsche I got to thinking about the last part and I edited it to add the one personal opinion to your obviously wise feelings about the .224 on deer.
IMO
"If" a hunter is using a big .224 like a .22-250 or Swift etc. And "If" that hunter has tremendous will power and restraint to pass on bad angles, wind, "any" brush etc.etc.( this is were most guy's fail IMO, on the first "If'.)
And "If" that hunter has the skills to allow him to get close.
And "If" that hunter only takes broadside standing still shot's.
And "If" that hunter has practiced with that rifle a lot to really know what it's doing.
Then I see a well constructed 55 grain or heavier bullet being a real effective slayer of smallish deer and especially "Antelope" which seem to give up the ghost a lot easier than other animals of similar size, "If" shot in the ribs with a good hit.
Lotta "If's" huh? "If" ducks had teeth they'd eat steak.
I still don't care for the practice but having shot more than a few whitetail/antelope sized critters with a .22-250 I can't deny it dumps em like they got hit with God's own hammer.
Hey, the wonderful world of Google. I got to thinking about that article so I Googled it, hope this works. Ain't the full article but gets the point across.

5 Stages Of Hunting

Click in the 5 stages above.

I had no clue how potent rat shot could be. Late one day at the skeet range, we were ready to shut down. I don't go through the hastle of taking the extra mag holders & holster off my Galco belt when skeet shooting. I just lock the gun & magazines in the car. Someone asked me what I was carrying, and that day I had A Kimber Tactical Pro II (officer size)45acp.
After the usual passing it around and BS about the gun & shooter, someone told me to get rig of that mouse gun. I forgot about it, but I had some snake shot in the car, since my buddy with a loader was clearing some trees around my house. The RO asked me what kind of range it had, and I really had no clue. Long story short, but I ended up on stage one & he threw me a low house bird. I held about 2 ft in front and waited, and it absolutely powdered that bird. I think I was more shocked than anyone. I can see now why Glazer Safety loads were so popular. Has anyone patterned any of that stuff?
The only rat shot I have left is 44mag. I might have to drag the 29 out & see chat it does to an IDPA target at 7 yards.

OH, one more thing. The RO didn't tell those in attendance I used snale shot on that clay pigeon. Everyone in the club wanted to buy that Kimber then. Truth be known,I would probably do better with the rat shot than I do with a shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:
... I love catching snakes. ...

Hey Montdoug, You are welcome to my share!

Gene was just talking about using the Rat Shot on Clays, which was probably some #12 shot. It obviously did fine on that Low #1 House, but I can tell you that the South Carolina Snakes tend to "ignore #12 shot".

The only time Snakes concern me are when I accidentally walk up too close to them, or when the occasional Cotton Mouth will chase after me. I really don't like either of those situations. I try to avoid contact with them all together and will walk around them if it is at all practical. Don't really like to disturb the tranquility when I'm in the Stealth Mode.

But, occasionally it seems our paths do cross and I've found the Speer Shot Capsules loaded from an extremely old sack of #7 shot(not #7 1/2) seems to get the Snake Dancing cranked right up. I put them in the first two cylinders of which ever Revolver I'm carrying(I always carry a Revolver in the Woods/Swamps) and fill the remaining cylinders with Bambi/Varmint Blasters.

Best of luck to you all.

we have a lot of copperheads around here, and a few rattlers show up around some of the foothills. when I was bow hunting, my butt was drawn up coming out of the woods after a morning hunt. That's just about when they have taken in enough sun to get mean again. This backward ass state allows NO hanguns during bow & black powder season, even with a CCH permit.
There intent is good, being that the majority of this county are used to taking deer with a 22 to the head with the aid of a spotlight. All they need to do is allow shotshells only in handguns. But this is the State that tried to make it illegal to kill a poisonous snake unless you were in harms way. I can see it now, "hello mr rattler. since your coiled and rattling your ass off, may I assume you intend to harm me?" By then my heart would have stopped. No shoulders, it dies is the way I see it.

Sonny, if your state allows a .204 for deer, and you want to try it, go for it!
I have a 1/2 inch thick steel plate hanging 100 yards out in my pasture, and my buddy's 204 CZ drills holes through that plate, just like it ain't even there....... Next to the 1/2 plate I have a full inch thick steel plate hanging, and the little 204 won't shoot thru that.... But it sure blasts a deep crater in it!
Our deer up here in Minnesota run pretty big, but I never seen one with steel plate armour. Probably yours don't wear it neither.
Heavy for caliber bullet, well placed by you... behind the shoulder, or better yet behind the ear......Bang/Flop......... Grant.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldmodel70:
Sonny, if your state allows a .204 for deer, and you want to try it, go for it!
I have a 1/2 inch thick steel plate hanging 100 yards out in my pasture, and my buddy's 204 CZ drills holes through that plate, just like it ain't even there....... Next to the 1/2 plate I have a full inch thick steel plate hanging, and the little 204 won't shoot thru that.... But it sure blasts a deep crater in it!
Our deer up here in Minnesota run pretty big, but I never seen one with steel plate armour. Probably yours don't wear it neither.
Heavy for caliber bullet, well placed by you... behind the shoulder, or better yet behind the ear......Bang/Flop......... Grant.

I find that "Interesting".

I had an email from a guy with a .5" lead plate.CCI TNT, VMAX & FMJ all passed through.

My buddy in South Texas went to his lease for hog clean up a few weeks back. He has a fold up tripod stand on the top of his old Suburban and a feeder on the front bumper! I was giving him a fit till he took me down a sendero, turned the feeder on for about 300 yards, turned around and the damn deer were already eating the corn. That was my first trip to TX, and I had no clue of the huge deer numbers in that desert(Del Rio). He took his 270 & did the same trick, but it was hog assination day. Another guy on the lease had a new Savage 204, and he was pilling up porkers from 200 yards.
He got a CZ 17HMR when he saw the range test on mine. He's killed 3 javelina with it using VMAX ammo. Both were inside 100 yards, and head shots. Those guys are just looking for the cheapest way out to thin out those varmints. He said judging by the damage on those stink pigs that the 17 should handle bobcats and coyotes with vital shots. It's amazing how projectile design in the last 15 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonny Burnett:
I had an email from a guy with a .5" lead plate.CCI TNT, VMAX & FMJ all passed through.

My buddy in South Texas went to his lease for hog clean up a few weeks back. He has a fold up tripod stand on the top of his old Suburban and a feeder on the front bumper! I was giving him a fit till he took me down a sendero, turned the feeder on for about 300 yards, turned around and the damn deer were already eating the corn. That was my first trip to TX, and I had no clue of the huge deer numbers in that desert(Del Rio). He took his 270 & did the same trick, but it was hog assination day. Another guy on the lease had a new Savage 204, and he was pilling up porkers from 200 yards.
He got a CZ 17HMR when he saw the range test on mine. He's killed 3 javelina with it using VMAX ammo. Both were inside 100 yards, and head shots. Those guys are just looking for the cheapest way out to thin out those varmints. He said judging by the damage on those stink pigs that the 17 should handle bobcats and coyotes with vital shots. It's amazing how projectile design in the last 15 years.

I’m sure they had a good shoot. Did your buddy tell you how many they wounded and got away? Varmint control is a little different than sport hunting deer.

Cleaning out feral hogs is an on going problem I hear and ranchers need to do what it takes to control them although in my opinion even they deserve a humane dispatch such as Bobby's .44. Unless I miss my guess however Javelina are considered a game animal as they are in Arizona and if they were thinning them out as you say they were in violation (in fact I just checked and it's a bag limit of two per year).
I've never hunted there and I have the utmost respect for ranchers and farmers and what it takes to make a go of it. Feral hogs are a curse to them I'm sure, another man made curse. Be that as it may unless the Javelina cause a problem in Texas they didn't in Arizona I can't imagine just shooting them. A big boar only goes about 45 or 50 lbs as I remember em plus which for the most part they live on prickly pear cactus (at least they did in Arizona) and I can't imagine Texas having a shortage of cactus. It'd take a Texas farmer/rancher to set me straight on this one. I know Javelina are a gas to hunt, really quick on their feet. I guess even as much as I love to hunt I have a soft spot for all indigenous wildlife unless it's causing legitimate problems for the rancher/farmer then he needs to work out reduction hunts etc. to handle the problem.
Kinda like what most Montana cattle ranchers feel about the wolves they recently reintroduced, practice the three S's. shoot-shovel and shut up. Easy to judge that behavior from a city house in a populace state but I assure you that if most folks even tried that ranchers boots on they'd be worked to death. Tough life. Difficult issues to deal with where all party's are happy.
I do know I'd dearly love to ventilate a few feral hogs with my .44. As far as I know a pig's ass is still pork so a younger one still has to eat ok. I wish I knew someone in Texas that raised acorns and had a hog problem and would pay my way down there . Ain't wishing for too much huh?
P.S.
As to the penetration question reread the Alaskan Brown Bear story I posted, the heads on the great bears are notoriously tough to shoot through and he did it with a solid copper billet .17 cal. bullet probably about 25 grains worth. A .17 cal fmj penetrates steel like crazy at hyper velocity's. Does that make anybody honestly believe they are really a good choice for Alaskan Brown Bear?
A lot goes into external ballistics and taking one issue out of the whole picture and trying to make a hard and fast rule around it is silly.

Hey Gene, Don't leave us hanging - what are you going to use?

It looks like I won't need anything. We cancelled yesterday because of the hurricane.
They were getting 40+ winds this morning. No need driving 6 hours for a one day Hunt,
no Sunday hunting in NC. The next possible trip is Thanksgiving week. It's a different place, but the owner doesn't hunt, and he has a 243 I can use,and a 3030 if the acorns are falling then.
A 243 is going to be my choice, and I'm looking for one now. I have a Leupold Vari X III 6.5 x 20 in the box, and I'm either going to get a Remington 700 VLS, or a Kimber Longmaster VT.

I'm not going to whine over the missed hunt. ANY rain is needed. It would not surprise me if they cancelled deer season. One careless cigarette and we could be in the same shape as California. There was a special on the drought on Charlotte TV, and they said if the drought lasts until March, the river & lake chains would be too low to supply the cities dependent on them. They followed the lakes from the mountains to Charlotte, using their TV helo. 95% of the piers were at least 50 yards from the water line. All but a handfull of boat landings are closed.

With all this going on, I feel like an idiot whinning about missing a hunt because my shoulder hurts.

Get a big un Gene! Good luck with both the hunt and your shoulder. I shot a 5x5 Mulie today with my .44 mag (6X6 according to my son who counts any point over an inch and the brow tines were). I don't want to hijack your thread any further so I'll post a couple pics on a separate thread.

Hey Gene, We didn't have all these droughts across the Southeast before Heil-ery began running.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonny Burnett:
...the owner doesn't hunt, and he has a 243 I can use,and a 3030 if the acorns are falling then.
A 243 is going to be my choice, and I'm looking for one now. I have a Leupold Vari X III 6.5 x 20 in the box, and I'm either going to get a Remington 700 VLS, ...

Either of those should do right well for you. The last M700 VLS I had weighed right at 9.5# with a 6.5-20x 50mm VariX-III. It was chambered for a 308Win and I had a lot of fun with it.

My current 243Win is a M7 and is just amazingly accurate for such a light rifle. It will certainly Kill Deer with the right Bullets. And there is an abundance of excellent Deer Bullets for it. Only negative thing is it will leave a small Exit which plugs easily. But, I've Killed a bunch with a 243Win.

30-30 is just excellent inside the Woods/Swamps.
-----

A few of my buddies Hunt East of Raleigh and they tell me they are either seeing a lot at one time or a few scattered singles - both Doe and Bucks.

Best of luck on your Hunt.

Hell with the hijack, post the deer pics. I never had any problem with exit holes when my dad was alive. That little A Bolt Stalker loved 95 gr Ballistic Tips. I downloaded them to around 2950 fps. If I were hunting a lot I would buy one just like it, but that tiny barrel is good for 2, maybe 3 shots and it needs 30 minutes cool off time. I know the Remington will make a good target & hunting gun.
The Kimber is $300 more, but has a match barrel,
and would make stock class in our Benchrest Matches. It would be nice to get some feedback, but I never see any Kimber long guns around here. Same as their Augusta Shot Gun. It a class gun all the way, but the $5000 price tag puts them up against Browning & Berettas High end guns. I bought a used Perazzi with Kolar sub tubes, had the all of the wood refinished, and when I get the color hardening redone I'll still have $1000 or more change. I took it to the range for some excercise with the 410 tubes in it, and it was like shooting a Daisy. I think I'll take some 20ga tomorrow.

Gene I started a new thread called Continuation of the ".204 on whitetails" Totally off topic dead deer pics sorry. here under the "Small caliber" topics banner if ya want to see em. By the way that through and through'd the buck I took.
I'm rethinking my decision today on him, I let the rack warp my brain yesterday. I woulda been a lot better off with a doe or any whitetail. Even though that guy didn't stink to bad yet like they do in the full rut, whitetails or a doe mule deer would sure make better chuckins.

Ah Sonny,........why would someone with all that reloading gear and experience only have 4 centerfire rifles ?

I would think a man of your experience would have a 35 Rem. loaded with a good cast lead bullet running 1300 fps. That load in my Marlin has as far as I can tell almost zero recoil and will take anything up to black bear with no problem....................................JJ

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
Ah Sonny,........why would someone with all that reloading gear and experience only have 4 centerfire rifles ?

I would think a man of your experience would have a 35 Rem. loaded with a good cast lead bullet running 1300 fps. That load in my Marlin has as far as I can tell almost zero recoil and will take anything up to black bear with no problem....................................JJ

Valid Point. I never have been much on lever guns for some reason. (Maybe because I'm legally blind with out glasses????)
I have only owned one. It was a BLR 358 Winchester. It had killer wood with a mirror sheen on it. It thumped pretty hard with 200 br bullets. Let's just say it would break you from buying wallyworld optics. I have a picture somewhere of a doe that walked in front of that big ol soft point bullet. Lord what a hole. Seeing a scope on a Winchester Lever Gun was just wrong.....that's another reason I never bought one. I have to admit that BLR looked very nice with a High Gloss Leupold mounted on it. I have thought of buying a Henry Gold boy 22lr. Now that would be fun.

We have a winner

The search for my mouse rifle ended yesterday afternoon. UPS Delivered A Leupold VariX III 6.5 x 20 Matte Finish Optic to my front door.

It's mate was ordered at the same time. So, without further delay, the winning rifle is:

Remington VLS in 243 Winchester

Gene,

I haven't read the whole thread as I hate the bickering that goes with it.

But I had a friend shoot 7 deer with his 204 and 40gr Hornady V-Max's last fall.

His advice is to not hit any of the major bones. Ribs are ok to shoot through.

No bullets were complete pass throughs and the vitals were jellied. They found, as expected, bullet fragments.

So I would not hesitate to use one on deer. Especially with a little tougher bullet.

I have shot a bunch of deer with a 22-250 and 53gr TSX's and have never recovered one bullet. So that's my personal experience of too small?? for caliber deer cartridges. At least when listening to the armchair quarterbacks.

There comes a time when people need to ask themselves “is this caliber actually adequate for the animal I’m shooting atâ€.

Back in the early years of the last century the same debate was over the 7mm X 57 Mauser, “is the Mauser a serious elephant roundâ€. After all it killed thousands of them back in the ivory trade days.

We’ll never know how many elephant were wounded and ran off, never to be found again but we do have a good idea about the amount of hunters stomped into a bloody, grease spot on the savanna after a screwed up shot on an elephant that didn’t run away.

Like the Mauser, we’ll never know how many White tails are wounded by the 204. Because the deer don’t have the ability to make grease spots out of hunters, no one will ever know the true.

quote:

We have a winner

The search for my mouse rifle ended yesterday afternoon. UPS Delivered A Leupold VariX III 6.5 x 20 Matte Finish Optic to my front door.

It's mate was ordered at the same time. So, without further delay, the winning rifle is:




Remington VLS in 243 Winchester

Nice rifle Gene. I had the serious hot's for one of those in 7-08 when they made em.
Last spring I bought a .17 Fire Ball and had hoped to get one in the VLS but they aren't producing that round in that configuration so I got a VSF instead. Oughta be a dandy combo for ya.

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
...I have shot a bunch of deer with a 22-250 and 53gr TSX's and have never recovered one bullet. So that's my personal experience of too small?? for caliber deer cartridges. At least when listening to the armchair quarterbacks.

This may surprise SDHunter, but I'll go on and agree with his basic thought about the "armchair quarterbacks".

Generally you find people with 12-50 Kills using an Inadequate Cartridge and they really believe they have all the answers. Once they mature as Hunters, with lots of Kills using numerous Cartridges, then they will realize the old wisdom was still correct.
-----

Hey Gene, That looks like my old 308Win M700 VLS if it is the 26" Bull Barrel. I had the same 6.5-20x VariX-III in 50mm on mine and it was amazingly accurate.

I've always found the "V" Series M700s to have nice tight Chambers, which means the Cases didn't get over-worked and helped with the accuracy.

Best of luck with the new rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by SDhunter:
...I have shot a bunch of deer with a 22-250 and 53gr TSX's and have never recovered one bullet. So that's my personal experience of too small?? for caliber deer cartridges. At least when listening to the armchair quarterbacks.

This may surprise SDHunter, but I'll go on and agree with his basic thought about the "armchair quarterbacks".

Generally you find people with 12-50 Kills using an Inadequate Cartridge and they really believe they have all the answers. Once they mature as Hunters, with lots of Kills using numerous Cartridges, then they will realize the old wisdom was still correct.
-----

Hey Gene, That looks like my old 308Win M700 VLS if it is the 26" Bull Barrel. I had the same 6.5-20x VariX-III in 50mm on mine and it was amazingly accurate.

I've always found the "V" Series M700s to have nice tight Chambers, which means the Cases didn't get over-worked and helped with the accuracy.

Best of luck with the new rifle.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!

So up to 50 kills you are not mature as Hunters???Many guys will never get close to that number in their life and you will consider them immature. Interesting and very funny.

After 50 occurrences of the same event you still believe the caliber was Inadequate. You would think that after an even was observed to be successful 50 times that you would accept some of the findings. That's even funnier.

Your comments are funny and entertaining and reveal an interesting insight into your inability to accept results/experience that differs from your own. Thanks again.

I remember a friend that had killed a bunch of deer usijg a .222.

The .204 Ruger is a .222 Mag necked down to .204.

Not that I would deer hunt with it but a well constructed bullet would work... if you aim small.

But it's also illegal in my state.

I can’t remember what the minimum bullet weight for hunting big game in Colorado is but it’s something like 90 or 100-grain bullets. The laws pretty much rules out any caliber smaller than a 6mm.

In regards to the venerable .204 for deer,...
So many variables. I have shot a .204 and my gut tells me,"No. Not on deer." Ballistics are fine and a good starting point, but do not tell the whole story. I have used a .357 Mag on deer. A 125 grn. HP did leave an exit wound, although there was no need to follow a blood trail. He didn't go far. A muzzle brake as mentioned by another reader is a viable option. I have a B.O.S.S. on a Browning .25-06 and the recoil is slightly less than a .243. About 8 Lbs.

Gene,
Glad to hear that you got a rifle that will work for you. I read an article once (everyone knows that they are as true as gospel), that was talking about hunters that would always shoot their deer high in the neck or in the head. IN your initial post you mentioned that you hunt with rifles that usually shoot 1/2 inch or better? That is plenty for a head shot! I have shot about 12 deer in the head/high neck, and been a witness on several more, with 30-06, 270, 22-250, 308 win, and they all died right there. I am pretty sure that if you are confident with the rifle, you will be able to drop any deer with your choice of caliber. I would not neccessarily recommend the .204 to everyone, but if you are confident, I would have no trouble with the afforesaid targets, myself. Some of the posters on this forum think that deer are steel jacketed, and that one needs the appropriate armor-piercing projectiles to 'Git'er done." I tend to disregard those who are not open minded enough to take such variables like shooter confidence and experience in shot placement into the equasion. Good luck, straight shooting, and post pics when you get back from your hunt.
Best regards,,
Graham

Gene, welcome. Remember, you asked the questions and received opinions. It is improbable that peoples opinions are wrong, merely this conceits behind them can be re-educated.

quote:

Originally posted by Sonny Burnett:
I had never given a thought of using my Remington XR100 in .204 for deer. .....

I somehow ended up with a box of Hornady 45 grain Spire Point ammo. Bottom line is wasn't as tight grouping as most of the Balistic Tip type ammo, but it easily shot 3/4" groups.
....
If it's NOT a varmint load only,....

Any info appreciated

Gene

Howdy Gene,
That information you requested is on the box of ammo. It says "Varmint Express" on the box.

It uses the VMAX Bullets
(direct quote from hornady's website)

quote:

1) V-MAX Bullets
Hornady’s V-MAX™ bullets consistently achieve rapid fragmentation at all practical varmint shooting velocities.

So, to answer your questions, as well as the implied questions
1: the 204 vmax loads are soley a varmit load and are DESIGNED to fully denotant/fragment in the depth of a gopher.
2: it is a poor choice of load to shoot at GAME
3: implied question - is it okay to use a 204 on deer? Can it be used? sure, just like a 220 swift. and if you shot bullets DESIGNED for game (tsx?)would it work? Sure, however, in MY OPINION, to me? hell no.
4:implied question - then what can i use that recoils lightly... 708 with 100gr bullets at 2600fps in an 8 pound gun. My wife is recoil INtolerant.. hataes it, won't shoot a 308 in a 9# rifle, and thinks an sks kicks too much.. but she will shoot, though not many, a 708 i built her.

MY suggestion? sorry man, if you can't physically take the recoil of a 243 shooting right, then turn to shoot left.

Jeff: he was referencing this Hornady load...

From Hornady's site:
"Hornady's New 204 Ruger 45 Grain SP Delivers Controlled Expansion and Deeper Penetration."

No Vmax involved. Not argueing for its use on deer, just adding info as it pertains to Sonny's statement.

Greg

Now that I have most of the forum wearing Nomex drawers, it's time to get down to bidness. The 243 Remington VLS will be here tomorrow. Time to start loading some test fodder.

The gun has a 9 1/8" twist, 26" Heavy Barrel. The first load up will be a whitetail load. What's the bullet weight range going to be on that odd twist? I want to get as much weight as possible, and I was hoping one of you had some experience with a VLS with 9 1/8". Before I go any further, I'll wait for some input.

I have been researching powder, and have several option. I have 4831 & 4350 on hand, and the 4831 has several loads under 3000 fps, and the 4350 is about 100 fps faster. I used the 4831 in my 7mag for years, and it was outstanding in S.D., and hardly ever threw a flyer in. I have the 4350 from loading 243 for a friend. There is one more option I could try. I need to double check this, but I was given load info on Varget, for the 243 and my 204, so getting powder that performs well in any 2 of my rifles woud be nice.Thats just a few things to consider before I start.

In a perfect world, I want to find a load under 3000 fps, that is accurate enough for target or hunting.

When I get some info on the bullet weights that should work in my barrel, I'll start shopping for bullets, and then I can load some test fodder up with the 4831 & 4350 I have.

Thanks

Hey Gene, I've used both H4350 and IMR-4831, H414, H450(discontinued) and an unpublished Load of H1000 using a 3' Drop Tube.

I've Killed at least 25-50 Deer with each of these Bullets. Some of the 100gr Bullets have a lot of Kills.

A good many Noslers, including the 85gr, 95gr, 100gr Partitions, 90gr and 100gr B-Tips, and the old 100gr Solid Base.

Also 100gr Hornady, Rem PSPs, Speer Hot-Cor, Speer Boat Tail, and Sierras.

My current Load uses the 90gr Speer Hot-Cor and it Kills as well as any of the others. None tend to leave a large Exit and tend to plug easily. This is an extremely accurate Bullet in my S&S 243Win M7.

Since Recoil is a concern, you might want to consider the "H4895 60% of a MAX Load" that Hodgdon recommends. That should get the Recoil way down.
-----

Had a couple of calls from NC today. One from Charlotte and one from Knightdale. The Knightdale buddy took a young guy Hunting today and the young fellow got a 175# 8-pointer with a 270Win. Lots of Whooping in the background.

The earlier call was from a buddy getting a 270Win down-loaded for his daughter to go Deer Hunting with. She is using the H4895 60% Reduction Load mentioned on the Hodgdon Site and is cutting 5 shot groups around 1.1" which he was quite proud of.

Best of luck to you.

way to go on the deer. the bucks have to be going crazy. I have yet to see a doe of any age with even a hint of tarsal stain.

any clue on the fps using a 95 gr Ballistic Tip?
i have some of those in the barn