What is the flattest, fastest and most accurate of the 22 cals?

The 22/250 of course!
There are faster (220 Swift), there are more accurate (22PPC) but the 22/250 has the best of them all in one package.

Ruger says that in the aggregate, test firing shows their 220 Swift rifles are noticably more accurate than the same models in 22-250.

That could be something specific to Ruger's chambers or some unknown production issue, or the Swift case could hold an edge. I could never tell much difference and I've been around dozens and dozens of both and owned several of both.

My favorite is now the 22-250 AI. But the 22 Cheetah or the 5.6 x 57 are probably the fastest practical 22s. The first is based on the .308 (if I recall, could be mistaken) and the latter is based on the 7 x 57 family

Swift = king of the hill.

The 22br is definately the best in one package!!!
Cdog.

focus on ranging and personal accuracy...the rest is marketing imho.

a good shot is in the user not so much the gun.

reload reload reload shoot shoot shoot.

good luck and welcome to the forum

My 22-284...by a wide margin. 80gr Nosler Competition bullets at 3600fps, groups in the mid .2's, and under an inch at 300yds, and has made one shot hit and kills out past 600yds. This is a cartridge that somebody needs to commercialize.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not share is knowledge lost...

good shoot'n rich

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
Swift = king of the hill.

+1

The Swift is your first choice.

quote:

Idaho Sharpshooter
one of us

Posted 04 November 2007 22:13 Hide Post
My 22-284...by a wide margin.

If wildcats count Sharpshooter's right on the money for fastest! accuracy will depend more on the rifle than which particular round. As to the possible most inherently accurate round I'd vote .22BR as well. If you want to just buy one off the shelf I'm sure the swift guys are right about it being fastest but I still like the .22-250.
I have a disabled buddy who shoots a .22-284 by the way. He can't get around very well but man can he shoot. That .22-284 really hauls the mail! With the right twist you can use some of the heavy VLD's in .22 cal and really "reach out and touch something".

My dad got his Rem Mod 700, 220 swift out the other day. He was shooting at a half gallon milk jug at about 450 yards according to laser range finder. He shot a 5 shot group into about 2 inches. And the swift has the speed.

in fact anything faster than a .223 Remington starts to exhibit diminishing returns and once you have reached the 22-250 the gains are extremely minimal.....Yes, you can get more velocity in the Swift but it's not noticeable in actual use.

The Swift and other large case wildcats pick up the slack with fast twist barrels and VLD bullets.

For the common .224 prairie dog shooting it's extremely difficuly to beat the 22-250.....on paper maybe but in the field the difference is indistinguishable.

quote:

Ruger says that in the aggregate, test firing shows their 220 Swift rifles are noticably more accurate than the same models in 22-250.

Not disagreeing with you Tiggertate cause you make excellent ponts but I do think Rugers full of beans on that one (as it sounds you do as well), that or it was pure coincidence. One of my .22-250's is an old 788 Remington that's on it's 3rd barrel, (this ones a Weisman). Pillar bedded, lapped lugs (talk about a pain in the keester), trigger worked etc. It shoots in the .2's and .3's with a 6X20 Leupold on it and its favorite loads. The exact same rifle in .220 Swift would be no more nor any less accurate than it is.
Short fat cases that aren't excessively over-bore have a reputation for the best accuracy, Remington BR cases. PPC based cases etc. Beyond that it's the way the rifles put together and as mentioned above shooter ability that makes the difference.
Which round is better/more accurate has been argued ever since shooters started using brass cases, probably before. Arguing which wins the 250 or Swift is like arguing which is better Chocolate or Strawberry ice cream? It all depends on which one ya like best personally. I'd wager a bunch if you called Remington's custom shop and had em make you a .220 swift and a .22-250 both on the 40X platform you'd be hard pressed to shoot any difference between em. Again as mentioned above I'd also wager a real top bench rest shooter could take either one of em and shoot smaller groups with it than a less accomplished shooter could shoot with the other one, trade rifles and do it again.
Debating which one is better in situations like this is a lot like rocking in a rocking chair, it gives ya something to do but it sure doesn't get ya anywhere .

If you don't mind wildcats, a 22 Cheetah would fill the bill nicely. Basically, a full length Remington 308 BR case (small primer pocket) necked to 22 cal with a 40 degree shoulder. 50gr bullets exit a 27" barrel near 4270 fps.

My vote goes for the BR....Stuffed full of H322 with a 52 gr. benchrest bullet, it's been an extremely accurate and practical cartridge for what I want in a 22 centerfire....

The 22/243 Middlested- not quite as fast as the 22/284 but excellent accuracy with different twist barrels and bullet weights. Groups under 1/2 moa are common place. I contribute much of the accuracy to case design and the needed case preparation and that would also carry over to the 22/284.

www.duanesguns.com

quote:

DuaneinND
one of us

Posted 05 November 2007 16:51 Hide Post
The 22/243 Middlested- not quite as fast as the 22/284 but excellent accuracy with different twist barrels and bullet weights. Groups under 1/2 moa are common place. I contribute much of the accuracy to case design and the needed case preparation and that would also carry over to the 22/284.

www.duanesguns.com

Nice web site Duane and that .257 you wildcatted is a real nifty design. What an excellent hunting or varmint combo compared to say even the classics like the .243. Similar but better with more ooomph I really like the option of heavier bullets.
I agree with what you say about case design and especially brass prep. That also reinforces my point about how the rifle is put together. Any of the wildcats mentioned are much faster by case design and the rifles shooting them are typically more accurate cause any wildcat is probably going to have been built by a gunsmith such as yourself who undoubtedly trued the action, lapped the lugs, squaring the bolt face etc. Heck, take your .257DGR as a parent case call Dave Kiff and have him make a reamer on your case necked down to .22 caliber. Oughta be a screamer! Plus a guy's got something no one else has (I love that part, that's why I got a safe full of wildcats).

the 22. tuna can.
50 BMG necked down to 22.

quote:

KSTEPHENS
one of us
Picture of KSTEPHENS

Posted 05 November 2007 21:20 Hide Post
the 22. tuna can.
50 BMG necked down to 22.

Now that "might" just be a bit over-bore .

the 22-284 is easy to build, if you like the Savage rifles. Buy a 223 to get the 1:9" twist, then rechamber to the 22-284 and fit a 308 bolt head to it...as a bonus you get the accu-trigger and choice of stainless or blue steel, and the laminate or synthetic stocks. Out of the box should shoot under 1/2" easily. Those 80gr Nosler Competition or Sierra MK's will be a 600yard live varmint round.

Rich
DRSS
Knowlwedge not shared is knowledge lost...

Fastest and flattest shooting commercial 22 is the 223wssm, not the Swift.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

KSTEPHENS
one of us
Picture of KSTEPHENS

Posted 05 November 2007 21:20 Hide Post
the 22. tuna can.
50 BMG necked down to 22.

Now that "might" just be a bit over-bore .

the bullets have to be lathe turned out of SS to prevent them from disintegrating as soon as they leave the muzzle.

I shot at one deer with mine and missed but the vacaume that the travling bullet made tore a rip in the space time continuem and pulled the deer back into time 30 years.

Ok now which one last longer or should I say has better barrel life ?.

The fastest is up for debate as well as the most accurate , how ever one thing that is not debatable is Short Barrel life on anything that runs in excess of 3500 FPS . It's just a fact .

Now lets really stir it up , how many shots will a barrel deliver before accuracy falls off ?.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

the bullets have to be lathe turned out of SS to prevent them from disintegrating as soon as they leave the muzzle.

I shot at one deer with mine and missed but the vacaume that the travling bullet made tore a rip in the space time continuem and pulled the deer back into time 30 years.

Now that there's funny. I don't care who ya are that there is funny .

quote:

The fastest is up for debate as well as the most accurate , how ever one thing that is not debatable is Short Barrel life on anything that runs in excess of 3500 FPS . It's just a fact .

Your right about that, I'm real careful with heat and clean regularly and I only got 13,200 rounds out of the McGowen barrel on that 788 .22-250 I mentioned above before I rebarreled it with the third barrel. Darned thing only lasted 16 years before the groups opened up to a bit over 1/2 inch. I'm being a wise guy here, sorry (the numbers and years are accurate however).
Getting the throat up to the 1,500ish degrees it takes to melt steel is what eats throats not velocity in and of itself. That temp is reached with sustained firings and obviously the amount of powder burned with each shot effects it. A gunsmith I use a lot who also has a degree in metallurgy explained that to me. The first shot fired might heat the the throat to say 400 degrees (arbitrary numbers here), the next fired quickly might heat it to let's say 800. The 3rd 1,200 etc etc. At the point the internal throat temp reaches a sustained temp hot enough to melt steel each shot that causes the hot gas's going through the throat to heat the metal to exceed that temp eats metal. Bye-bye throat.
Bottom line is shooter care has more to do with eating barrels than straight velocity itself. The more powder burned in a given caliber the more will power that needs to be exercised by the shooter.

.22-243. By far the flattest hardest hitting....

John

Velocity and barrel life are counter correlated.

That said, a 22/284 in the .2's get's my attention, and some barrel maker/gunsmiths as well but not my wallet.

Factory 22/250 in a good rifle is hard to beat, an accurate Swift for a conventional twist/weight bullets is nice, my VSSF did a .297 IIRC that last group, and it may have been 5, been a few years, but that throat got scorched at some point and I had some issues with brass and pressure for some unknown reason which no answers ever came......it got traded off, but it DID shoot, and the VS that preceded it with 24" shot 55gr/4064 into 1/2moa if not better for 5 as well, really liked the weight of the solid over the fluted bbl. Now a buddy bought another one just like it that had dropped into a BDL varmint stock (VS stock went elsewhere) and he won a bench shoot, informal out to 415 yds, they do shoot the Swifts, but if I built one today, to have a balance of Supreme accuracy, downrange performance, barrel life, and brass life, I believe hands down a 22 BR fast twist throated to where you take a 6BR case, neck down, but NO NECK turn Lapua brass is used, would be it for me.

Seen some itty bitty consistent 5 shot groups IIRC at 300 yds by a 22BR fast twist using 75-80gr bullets.

With those bullets, deer are not out of the question and those using fast 22's with heavy bullets in proper twist praise the DRT performance.

When I get older, and even less recoil intolerant, I will have to have me a 22BR. That said, a straight 22/250 fast twist (non AI is fine for me) would do very much the same thing and feeding from a magazine would likely be a given assuming proper OAL.

That's my take on 22's. I see a real justification for 3 22 cartridges in my arsenal.

22LR
221 fireball (222 would substitute) with 40's/Lil Gun 3600 fps is great on varmints.

And to reach out there, I believe a 22BR fast twist would get it done (22/250 in same fast twist would subsitute).

Love the ole swift, they are VERY accurate, but brass life/stretch is there, and it would be a nuisance to me, but I imagine there are some who have a solution to help in that area, save any blown AI version.

BTW, if one does not want to be limited to handloaded ammo, they need to look at either the 22/250 or Swift to have factory ammo as an alternative should they desire, but to me, if you load, a fast twist makes very good sense in a stepped up 22.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

Ruger says that in the aggregate, test firing shows their 220 Swift rifles are noticably more accurate than the same models in 22-250.

Not disagreeing with you Tiggertate cause you make excellent ponts but I do think Rugers full of beans on that one (as it sounds you do as well), that or it was pure coincidence. One of my .22-250's is an old 788 Remington that's on it's 3rd barrel, (this ones a Weisman). Pillar bedded, lapped lugs (talk about a pain in the keester), trigger worked etc. It shoots in the .2's and .3's with a 6X20 Leupold on it and its favorite loads. The exact same rifle in .220 Swift would be no more nor any less accurate than it is.
Short fat cases that aren't excessively over-bore have a reputation for the best accuracy, Remington BR cases. PPC based cases etc. Beyond that it's the way the rifles put together and as mentioned above shooter ability that makes the difference.
Which round is better/more accurate has been argued ever since shooters started using brass cases, probably before. Arguing which wins the 250 or Swift is like arguing which is better Chocolate or Strawberry ice cream? It all depends on which one ya like best personally. I'd wager a bunch if you called Remington's custom shop and had em make you a .220 swift and a .22-250 both on the 40X platform you'd be hard pressed to shoot any difference between em. Again as mentioned above I'd also wager a real top bench rest shooter could take either one of em and shoot smaller groups with it than a less accomplished shooter could shoot with the other one, trade rifles and do it again.
Debating which one is better in situations like this is a lot like rocking in a rocking chair, it gives ya something to do but it sure doesn't get ya anywhere .

No argument from me on any of the above!

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

KSTEPHENS
one of us
Picture of KSTEPHENS

Posted 05 November 2007 21:20 Hide Post
the 22. tuna can.
50 BMG necked down to 22.

Now that "might" just be a bit over-bore .

the bullets have to be lathe turned out of SS to prevent them from disintegrating as soon as they leave the muzzle.

I shot at one deer with mine and missed but the vacaume that the travling bullet made tore a rip in the space time continuem and pulled the deer back into time 30 years.

quote:

Originally posted by 601ed:
What is the flattest, fastest and most accurate of the 22 cals?

Hard to say. A lot depends on how well the rifle is built. The 22 Cheetah is super fast, but I don't own one, so I can't say how accurate that chambering is.
I do own a 22-250 and a 22 BR, both of which are very accurate. You can go faster, but I am not interested in a chambering that burns out barrels quickly. My 22-250 is my most accurate sporter, shooting 3 shots into a 1/4" group at 100 yards. I just can't see any need for something faster that may not shoot as well as this. The 22 BR is very close to this accuracy, but that may be dependant on the rifle itself, and me shooting it as well, not the chambering.

quote:

Originally posted by montdoug:

quote:

the bullets have to be lathe turned out of SS to prevent them from disintegrating as soon as they leave the muzzle.

I shot at one deer with mine and missed but the vacaume that the travling bullet made tore a rip in the space time continuem and pulled the deer back into time 30 years.

Now that there's funny. I don't care who ya are that there is funny .

you don't need custom made bullets....just neck down a 105mm howitzer case to accept a sewing needle and you're ready to go

What range are you planning to shoot at? If you're looking inside 300 yds, there is much to be said for a 223, 22 ppc and 22 br. If you're looking past 600 yds, and hence will be using the heavier vld bullets, you'll likely want a 22-250 ackley or perhaps 22/284.

Before the advent of lazer rangefinders the super high velocity flat shooting rounds had there place. Now with lazers, trajectory isn't as important as rounds that are less affected by wind, and are accurate way out there.

Also advances in gunsmithing and tighter tollerances in chambers and throats allow most chamberings to really shine. Not saying some cases might not have a slight advantage over others, but the inherintly accurate badge isn't as shiny as it once was.

A more direct way to put it would be I'd be more concerned that the chamber was cut with a neck 0.002" over the case dia on a loaded round and the neck was 0.2245" with a 1 1/2 deg lead than what case I picked to use.

It's pretty tough to beat a well built 223 or 223 ackley for 90% of what a 22 centerfire is used for, and a 22-250 ackley for those times you want to play way out there and don't mind the added powder consumption and recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
in fact anything faster than a .223 Remington starts to exhibit diminishing returns and once you have reached the 22-250 the gains are extremely minimal.....Yes, you can get more velocity in the Swift but it's not noticeable in actual use.

The Swift and other large case wildcats pick up the slack with fast twist barrels and VLD bullets.

For the common .224 prairie dog shooting it's extremely difficuly to beat the 22-250.....on paper maybe but in the field the difference is indistinguishable.

I’m sorry, but anything faster than a 223 is a “diminishing return�

Please!!!!

Every round shoot at a prairie dog is a waste of money and a “diminishing returnâ€. Chorine gas works just fine but the EPA doesn’t allow that. I have kill a number (I have no idea of the numbers) of P dogs with a Swift. The Swift over the years has killed more dogs than any 223 I’ve owned.

I don’t shoot prairie dogs for sport, I just try to kill as many of them as possible.

But anything that kills Prairie Dogs from a 22 LR, to a Swift or a 25-06 makes the ranchers happy.

I got in this a little late, sorry. As to Ruger and the 220 Swift, I have to agree with them. I had them rebarrel an early Mod 77 Swift for me a few years ago, and upon receiving the barreled action back, I couldn't believe how accurate it was. With RL15 and Nosler 55 Ballistic Tips @ 3800fps or so, they all go in one little bug hole, time after time after time.
Based on my experience,they (Ruger) are telling the truth.

Jerry

That temp is reached with sustained firings and obviously the amount of powder burned with each A gunsmith I use a lot who also has a degree in metallurgy explained that to me. The first shot fired might heat the the throat to say 400 degrees (arbitrary numbers here),

He may very well know metal, but doesn't know squat about powder Temp . Get real: powder burns FAR higher temp. then 400 Degrees even on the first shot !. Erosive gases are what do the damage in conjunction with the heat they create on burn . Pressure to a small degree also helps the process .

I'm not going to debate number of rounds or barrel life per manufacturer . When velocity is upward of 3500 FPS , barrels go away faster .When faster than 4K FPS they really go away quickly !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

.220 Swift Ackley Improved, 4000 fps with 55's and don't have to trim as much.

How about the 22-378 Weatherby?
Farthest on right, next to 223, 22LR, 22 pellet-