What grain bullets would a Savage 110 like? Are there any simple guidelines to reload by when it comes to twist? Example- slow twist 223's generally like 55 grains or less. Are there any 25-06 guidelines like that?

Jason,

Give this a shot:
Shilen twist rate chart

On a personal note, I got a Tikka T3 in 25-06 and I have/will feed it Nosler 110grn Accubonds. I like the construction and ballistics of it! Oh ya and the 4pt I dropped this year proves that IT WORKS.

Smedley

All mine have loved H4831 I think this powder and the 25-06 go together. Accuracy was good with 87 and 100 gr bullets.

I havn't had mine long enough to try it all yet, but found two loads it seems to like. One is with a 115gr Barnes XLC ( since discontinued)pushed with RL22, lit with WLR, in Win brass. The second is 117gr. Hornady SST, 52gr H4831, WLR, win cases. I'll post a pic of a 3 shot group I fired with it. From a sporter weight barrel, and cheap factory plastic stock.

typical twist for a 25-05 is 1:10.

1:10" will stabilize the 120gr bullets that are the "heavyweights" for this caliber.
The 25-06 isn't at it's best with 120's but rather with 100's

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
typical twist for a 25-05 is 1:10.

1:10" will stabilize the 120gr bullets that are the "heavyweights" for this caliber.
The 25-06 isn't at it's best with 120's but rather with 100's

AllanD

I'm not so sure the 100's are "best" in this one. Not really trying to start a

My post above isn't unusual. My .25-06 shoots the 115gr XLC pretty close to this and I really wasn't looking for this level of accuracy as much as good accuracy and a fast load. The 117's shoot quite well for a pencil barrel, and in my experience the 120gr HP shoots quite well in both the .25-05 and the .257 Roberts. Velocity level affects the results more than the bullet weight alone I think. I've found some good shooting 75gr loads for the Roberts, have yet to try them in the .25-06. The Roberts shoots 100gr bullets pretty well at max.

I guess the bug-holes is what makes handloading interesting. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:

I'm not so sure the 100's are "best" in this one. Not really trying to start a

My post above isn't unusual. My .25-06 shoots the 115gr XLC pretty close to this and I really wasn't looking for this level of accuracy as much as good accuracy and a fast load. The 117's shoot quite well for a pencil barrel, and in my experience the 120gr HP shoots quite well in both the .25-05 and the .257 Roberts. Velocity level affects the results more than the bullet weight alone I think. I've found some good shooting 75gr loads for the Roberts, have yet to try them in the .25-06. The Roberts shoots 100gr bullets pretty well at max.

I guess the bug-holes is what makes handloading interesting. Nate

I don't want a pissing match either, but an open, intelligent discussion of opinions is why this forum is here...

In my very humble opinion...
The 25-06 doesn't launch 115 and 120's fast enough to justify the flash, blast and shortened barrel life.

I'm just not impressed by a 120gr bullet at 3000-3100fps. The much flatter shooting 100's at 3450 OTOH...

Ofcourse it isn't at all difficult to load those 100gr bullets down to somewhat slower speeds if you prefer...

And I doubt that there is any real difference
in terminal performance between say a 100gr partition and a 120gr.
And I believe the same can be said of
a 100gr X-bullet.

The only time I shot a deer sized animal with a
25-06 it was with a 100gr partition and at just over 400yds the bullet hit within 4" of point of aim and exited through the offside shoulder.

The deer never moved, it just kinda froze and as I was getting ready to shoot again
(I actually was starting to apply pressure to the trigger) when it simply collapased.

I doubt a 120gr would have done any better.

I don't think a 120gr bullet will make a 25-06 into an Elk Rifle, and IMO using a 25-06 to launch bullets at 3000fps defeats the purpose of having and using a 25-06.

Kinda like using a 7mmMag to launch 195gr bullets (at 2700fps, something a larger bore cartridge is better at doing anyway.

A 250fps MV difference makes a significant
improvement in (Flattening of) trajectory.

and if talking about a Barnes X-bullet there is even less point to the heavy ones...
From what I've see the Barnes really do seem to "cut" rather than "tear" their way through things and using a slightly lighter bullet seems to take best advantage of this characteristic.

Basically I'm trying to point out the difference between the illusion of a 25-06's trajectory as opposed to the reality.
the 25-06 delivers what it promises, "Flat Shooting", with the 100's, but not with the 120's.

Then again, you can use a 7mmRemMag to launch 140's at the same speed the 25-06 can launch 100's, but there is an expected (though obviously unwelcome) increase in blast and recoil.

How much is enough?
How much is too much?

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.


AllanD

I have a 110 25-06 with a 26" barrel. It shoots 115 Nosler BT's and 110 grain Accubonds fairly well. I use H1000 and get good accuracy and velocity.

It also shoots 100 grain Speer Boatails fairly well. If you want to hunt with 100 grain bullets I'd load them down a bit or use a premium bullet.

I use Tkka T3 25:06 w/ 1:10 twist had great results with 117BTSP w/ H4831sc for deer & 75gr w/AA4350 for coyotes

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGrootslighty edited)
I don't think a 120gr bullet will make a 25-06 into an Elk Rifle, and IMO using a 25-06 to launch bullets at 3000fps defeats the purpose of having and using a 25-06.

Kinda like using a 7mmMag to launch 195gr bullets (at 2700fps, something a larger bore cartridge is better at doing anyway.

A 250fps MV difference makes a significant
improvement in (Flattening of) trajectory.

and if talking about a Barnes X-bullet there is even less point to the heavy ones...
From what I've see the Barnes really do seem to "cut" rather than "tear" their way through things and using a slightly lighter bullet seems to take best advantage of this characteristic.

Basically I'm trying to point out the difference between the illusion of a 25-06's trajectory as opposed to the reality.
the 25-06 delivers what it promises, "Flat Shooting", with the 100's, but not with the 120's.

Then again, you can use a 7mmRemMag to launch 140's at the same speed the 25-06 can launch 100's, but there is an expected (though obviously unwelcome) increase in blast and recoil.

How much is enough?
How much is too much?

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.


AllanD

My buck this fall here in Ca was taken at about 350 yards with the .25-06 and 115gr Barnes XLC's. It was a heart lung shot with a pass through. No big surprise.

Your statement about going to a lighter bullet to drive them faster and yielding flatter trajectories is only true to a point. If you like the 100's great. I've used them before and may again, but the B.C. goes up with an increase in weight within the caliber. My .25-06 with 115gr XLC's seems to work like a .270 does with heavier bullets. I like the performance and the trajectory isn't an issue as I practice out to 400 yards regularily. I do think the heavier bullets work as well or better as the 100's and like the higher B.C. it provides. And as for turning it into an Elk rifle....well compare the .270W with 130's to a .25-06 using 120's. There isn't much difference and yet people will recommend the .270 for elk.

These discussions draw some pretty fine lines. I draw some of them myself. For instance, I think the .270 is way over rated. Bigger than needed for deer, smaller than needed for elk, and some of the worst on game performance I've personally seen was from a .270 Win. The .25-06 seems to be the top end for deer I think. Everything bigger is overkill. For elk I think good recommendations start with bullets that go 200gr. I leave out the middle here I know, and I even have rifles in this catagory. They will work, it doesn't meen I'll pick those to recommend first.

Now let me twist this back the other way. I really like my 7mm RM and have used it to hunt deer and elk!
It is one of the medium "do everything" kind of rifles. The 7mmRM & 300 WM are like the Cresent wrenches of the rifle world. You can make them work on a lot of stuff but they are really not perfect for much of anything! Nate

Let the flaming begin!

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
My buck this fall here in Ca was taken at about 350 yards with the .25-06 and 115gr Barnes XLC's. It was a heart lung shot with a pass through. No big surprise.

Your statement about going to a lighter bullet to drive them faster and yielding flatter trajectories is only true to a point. If you like the 100's great. I've used them before and may again, but the B.C. goes up with an increase in weight within the caliber. My .25-06 with 115gr XLC's seems to work like a .270 does with heavier bullets. I like the performance and the trajectory isn't an issue as I practice out to 400 yards regularily. I do think the heavier bullets work as well or better as the 100's and like the higher B.C. it provides. And as for turning it into an Elk rifle....well compare the .270W with 130's to a .25-06 using 120's. There isn't much difference and yet people will recommend the .270 for elk.

These discussions draw some pretty fine lines. I draw some of them myself. For instance, I think the .270 is way over rated. Bigger than needed for deer, smaller than needed for elk, and some of the worst on game performance I've personally seen was from a .270 Win. The .25-06 seems to be the top end for deer I think. Everything bigger is overkill. For elk I think good recommendations start with bullets that go 200gr. I leave out the middle here I know, and I even have rifles in this catagory. They will work, it doesn't meen I'll pick those to recommend first.

Now let me twist this back the other way. I really like my 7mm RM and have used it to hunt deer and elk!
It is one of the medium "do everything" kind of rifles. The 7mmRM & 300 WM are like the Cresent wrenches of the rifle world. You can make them work on a lot of stuff but they are really not perfect for much of anything! Nate

Let the flaming begin!

I'll leave the flaming to others, I'm not that emotionally invested in any discussion...

But I'll give you a direction to look to see that the difference in BC is smaller than you seem to think it is.

I've seena discussion here recently where someone was looking for "long range" loading info for a 30-06 and he strongly felt that the better BC of the 180's made them superior performers to the 165's (driven a mere 150fps faster) and the simple fact is that superior BC only allows a 180gr from any 30caliber cartridge you care to name to EQUAL the energy of the 165gr bullet when both have reached the 500yd line, granted past 500yds the 180 has it,

but since that is well past the range that most of us will shoot at a live target who cares?

the same thing applies when talking about the difference in BC between a 100gr .257 and a 120gr .257, except there the 100gr starts off with a 250fps advantage...

Assuming a Nosler partition the 100gr has a .377BC compared to a .389BC for the 115gr
and a .391BC for a 120gr.

Inside of 500yards I'd still go with the 100gr

Barnes shows these speeds 50fps slower but because the copper bullets are a little longer show BC's over .400
I don't know the BC of the .257TSX bullets, but the 100gr XBT has a .420BC and the 115XFB has a .429, Not exactly an earthshaking difference... but since the 100gr starts off 200fps faster...

Barnes also has a 90gr deer bullet and that will go out at 3400+ but with a .343BC it's slowing a bit more particularly past 400yds,
but I'd still expect it to leave an exit hole in a whitetail at that range.

According to Barnes Ballistic tables with a 250yd zero
X-BT 90gr -13.7@400yd(895ft/lb), -31.7@500yd (699ft/lb)
X-BT 100gr -11.8@400yd(1426ft/lb), -26.3@500yd(1240ft/lb)
X-FB 115gr -14.5@400yd(1282ft/lb), -32.6@500yd(1075ft/lb)

So I'd have to go with the 100gr here as well, because while it's possible I might shoot another deer at 400yds (though I consider it unlikely) at 500yds I'll probably just watch...
But if I was desperate and did decide to shoot
the 100gr will require 5" less holdover and arrive with 25% more energy.

Granted tables aren't everything, but in this case the advantages of the 100gr over the 115/120gr seem quite clear.

Of course a BT'ed 115 would alter that a bit...

AllanD

in direct answer to your question, my 110fp loves the following:
imr4831 for all bullet weights
75gr v-max for varmints
100gr nosler bal tips and sierra sbt for deer
100gr sierra match king hpbt to bolster my ego at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by Jason Doss:
What grain bullets would a Savage 110 like? Are there any simple guidelines to reload by when it comes to twist? Example- slow twist 223's generally like 55 grains or less. Are there any 25-06 guidelines like that?

Hornady's 120 hollowpoint has been a great bullet in my .25-06 rifles.

Thanks guys. The rifle belongs to my 12 yr. old son, but I will be reloading for it. I was just trying to get a grasp on which bullets to buy. I think it will be an all purpose rifle, ranging from varmints to deer. While he has a couple of other rifles, he really likes the 25-06.

Jason,
my 112 savage loved 120gn hornady's with either Rel 19 or H4831.One of the difference's between the two main weights of 100gn and 120gn in the 25,and one which nobody seems to have touched on,is the 100 grainer's blow up at close range, because of the velocity. We seem to be quoting ftlbs and drop, the difference between the two bullets at any range is marginal. what is different is the momentum carried by the heavier bullet.

regards
griff

a once time 25-06 devotee, now a 264 winnie!

The 100 TSX carries very good for a 100 Gr. bullet, it is a boat tail while the 115TSX is not. I like both, I have thought for some time
that the 100 grain as an all around Varmit/Game bullet had a great deal of merit & I still do.
Then for a few years I went with the 85 BT for Varmits & a 120 Grain Part. for White Tails, Mule Deer & Antelope & this seemed a little better but you change sight setting which is not
a big problem. Now my Sendero is a 25-06AI.
I have gone to the Wildcat 125 RBBT ULD at 3,250
FPS. This is my all purpose as the BC is so high that after 500 yards it will fly flatter than the Varmit Bullets, flying very close to the 30 cal. 200MK, which I have never seen before in a 25 Cal. bullet. And the bigger factor is the reduced wind drift.

Hey Rod, I've thought about having one of my 25-06's re-chambered to 25-06AI. Do you mind shooting me an email with your experience/thoughts/advice/etc.? rcfortenb at yahoo dot com

On a side note, my dad lives in Pocahontas. I grew up in Newport.

TXRam

E-Mail sent.

Thanks Rod. I have not developed the end all to reloading the .257" but am interested in your data for the 125gr. I found a guy making his own 123gr bullets for a .25-284 and he was thinking they may be the optimum weight for caliber. Very interesting. Nate

my wifes just loves 117-120s over 64.0 gr h870 for about 3100 fps & the 2 elk she has shot with it have gone no further than 50' so if used with common sense & keep shots within 300 yds at standing bulls it works as well as my 280 rem improved.

I might be a little bias on this one but I'll have to say that the best luck I had was from IMR 4831! I didn't get to mess with the Alliant powder in my 25-06 but if it works anything like in my other calibers it should be a great powder but with the luck I had I'd start off with the IMR 4831 and while my rifle loved anything from the 85gr. NBT's to the 100gr. Sierra game kings I'd have to give it up to the 87gr. Hornady bullets as the best I shot out of mine. It was a Sig rifle and while it was real tough on coyotes the deer didn't stand a chance when you got them in the crosshairs. The 25-06 is a great round but 95% of my hunting is for varmints or predators so I belive it was a little overkill for my liking. Great round and best of luck to ya. Later,

Kirk

i have a 110fp in 25/06 with 1 in 10 twist. it loves IMR4831 and 100gr hpbt sierra matchkings and 100gr sbt sierra gamekings. it shoots both to within an eighth inch of same point of aim. this rifle also loves 75gr V-MAX; again with IMR 4831. to find my loads i used the sierra manual and worked up to approaching max.

Ditto to Vapodog's remark re: the Hornady 120 gr hp. My Ruger loves 'em on top of a healthy charge of IMR 4831. Will shoot with H-4831 too, but about .5" larger groups (1.25 vs .75")

I've got some 100 gr BTs but haven't taken the time to do a load workup with them.

Some observations on bullets in the 25-06:

100 gr. Sierra GK FB/BT Bullets:
Will one hole 5 shots @ 100 yards;
Leave @ 3400 fps w/ a healthy dose of H4831 – nothing else (so far) has come close for accuracy/speed;
The hotter the load, the better they shoot (no, they aren’t excessive in these rifles, but are in others – work up), but not always. Tried lighter loads once, but never got the accuracy – trying to save powder, didn’t think an animal would know how fast the bullet was going, as long as accuracy was there;
WT, MD, and Antelope (Prong Horn) will drop in their tracks with proper shots (boiler room) at 250 yards or less (maybe not every time, I do recall seeing one MD leap straight up before falling where he stood after said shot, but that was between 250 and 300 yards);
From 300 to 630 yards, WT, MD, and PH will run a short distance (sometimes) just like they do when hit by other calibers at closer ranges (seldom exits beyond 350 yds);
Will only penetrate about 8†of badger (between the eyes, into the neck and body) at 175 yards (only once, so who knows?);
Didn’t drop a cow elk (she went 50-75’) at 300 yards behind the shoulder, but lodged under the hide on the off side.

Nosler 100 gr. BT Bullets
Shoot as well as Sierra’s;
Is the only bullet that has ever failed at any range from 20 to 630 yards. On a 250 yard running antelope shoulder shot. Half-dollar size hole as only as deep as it was wide, meat only, no blood, no bone, only fine particles of jacket, lead and blue polymer – should have taken a picture);
6-8 MD/PH taken prior to this w/same load performed same as 100 gr Sierra’s;
Will work on prairie dogs and jacks, but would not recommend on anything larger (OK, maybe coyote. Once was enough for me). It may work well for others.

Barnes 100 gr. XLC BT’s
Shoot well enough for hunting;
Perform like Sierra’s killing wise, but obviously holds together better;
Don’t always exit, even at close range, but DO penetrate well (bone is hard on bullets);
May allow for an odd angled shot (I’ve never had to take such a shot, but would want the X if ever the need arose). I use them most often for hunting now.

Not to say anything other than 100 gr bullets w/H4831 won’t work, the combo just works in nearly every 25-06 I’ve had the opportunity to shoot, w/low recoil. I haven’t seen anything kill as quickly on WT, MD, or PH, and only know one person that shoots anything other than 100’s. Don’t see a problem w/115-120’s on larger stuff, but not at long range (over 300 yds). I shoot a 338 for that.

Allen D, While the tables and charts are interesting it's hard for me to cast a shadow on the results I've seen in the field. Tables and charts are calculations but can't predict how an animal will react with the bullet.

Referencing the charts does tell me that there is a little difference in drop but it isn't significant to me. I rarely shoot at game at the distances we are discussing, but have seen a difference in penetration with lighter bullets. The Barnes, Grooves, LRB, and similar solid copper bullets do penetrate better than lead core bullets of the same weight, but I've found that most rifles seem to get the best on game performance out of the heavier slugs.

This really started as a request for load info. I posted two loads that worked well for me in my rifle, and provided a picture to show I wasn't full of crap. I disagree with the statement you made about the .25-06 being at it's best with 100's because of the performance I've had with heavier bullets. Nate

Ok, my take on it is that if I wanted to shoot a 120gr bullet at the 3100fps that is the upper limit from a 25-06 I can
use a larger bore rifle like a 6.5, 277 or 7mm and throw slightly heavier slugs just as fast.

I don't disagree that the 120's penetrate well and take game, my point based on the several whitetails I shot
with my 25 was that the 100's worked superbly and that heavier bullets weren't going to improve the cartridges
effectevness by any material degree.

I never recovered a 100gr partition from any of the four animals shot with them.
And aside from one that was jumping over a fence at the time all literally collapased in their tracks.
the jumper? She (a Doe) made a nice ballistic arc right into the groundand never moved past the spot were she was going to land anyway. the bullet severed the spine between the shoulder blades and exited through the chest.

What was it that a 120gr was supposed to do better?
I don't think the heavier bullets are going to turn the 25-06 into an elk rifle, and I kinda just ignore the mule deer as a species as the nearest one I might get a shot at is about 1500miles away.... frankly I'm more likely to get a shot at a Zebra than a Mulie buck... There ARE two game farms nearby (not hunting, tourist zoo operation) that have Zebra's...


Looking at the numbers there is no material difference between a 25-06 with a 115/120gr bullet @3100
and a 270Win with a 130gr bullet of similar construction
at the same speed +/- 50fps, except that at longer ranges the 115gr/.257 bullet's slightly superior BC might start to have an effect.

When I "retired" my last 25-06 and rebarreled the
action to 30-06 I essentially replaced the 25-06 with a 7mmRemMag.

For anything I'd shoot at with 100gr partitions
or Barnes X's with a 25-06 I simply use 120gr XBT's.
However sice the original X-bullets are being phased
out as are the XLC's (Which I never got around to using
in my 7mm) I'll probably have to switch up to the
130gr TSX

I will own another 25-06, probably fairly soon
and most likely a Stevens 200 as I have decided I have a need for a "dual purpose" deer/woodchuck "beater" rifle that I can keep in the truck, though I'll be honest and say that my reason for choosing a 25-06 is because I already have brass, dies, loaded ammo (Virgin brass) and that 25cal is the biggest caliber that I really consider a "Varmint gun".

People talk about 75gr bullets in 223's, I like
75gr bullets in a .25-06.... SPLAT!!!

this reduces a chuck instantly into crow food.
(And crows make excellent targets too)


AllanD

my 700 26 inch Shaw bbl 25-06,shoots the 100 Partition over 3400 with A-3100 and RL -22,3100 pulls in the better single groups but RL-22 averages better.never had a 100 Partition fail on a deer.I tried the 100 Hornady Il and got just as good results on 8-10 deer but kinda skiddish.
I get 3175 from the Hornady 120 ILHP and RL-25 but it wont d anything on theselight weight Tn deer than the 100 and they shoot way flatter.

I may lok into the 115 Berger VLD with the BC around .520 at 3200 could be the cats meow.

for varmints I shoot 100 NBT and IMR-4350 for 3300 and .350 average groups.

Allen, You are still mostly going back to tables, charts, ballistics,ect.

You made the statement that the 100gr. is best in the .25-06.

Not if it doesn't shoot well!

So the 100 edges it (115-120) out on paper by a bit.
1. It doesn't kill better than the heavier bullet.
2. It may not shoot better than a heavier bullet.

I am pointing out the blanket statement you made isn't really true. I listed two loads that shoot quite well and posted a picture to demonstrate it. The ballistic advantages are small and for the distance most shoot deer, they are a moot point.

The deer I shot this year was far enough out that ballistic differences were just starting to have a noticeable difference.

Very few hunters are practiced enough to make a shot at the 500 yards that always seems to be the point of arguement. In fact I'd bet the percentage of hunters who can hit a pie plate at 250 yards is incredibly low.

I'm not professing to be an expert but when a blanket statement is made about "whats best" or whatever that persons choice is is the "best" I think they are being narrow minded. I said I haven't had my .25-06 long and have not tried everything. Smedly pointed out a twist rate chart for reference. (good one)

It's really up to the rifle what it's going to like. My barrel has the same twist rate as the Savage does I'm pretty sure, and mine shoots well with bullets over 100gr., as Smedly points his preference for 110gr Accubonds.

Just don't like to have the guy who's searching for success to get advice to ignore something that may be his "perfect load". That was the premise of this thread, to offer up experience with what will work well in this rifle. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
Allen, You are still mostly going back to tables, charts, ballistics,ect.

You made the statement that the 100gr. is best in the .25-06.

Not if it doesn't shoot well!

So the 100 edges it (115-120) out on paper by a bit.
1. It doesn't kill better than the heavier bullet.
2. It may not shoot better than a heavier bullet.

I am pointing out the blanket statement you made isn't really true. I listed two loads that shoot quite well and posted a picture to demonstrate it. The ballistic advantages are small and for the distance most shoot deer, they are a moot point.

The deer I shot this year was far enough out that ballistic differences were just starting to have a noticeable difference.

Very few hunters are practiced enough to make a shot at the 500 yards that always seems to be the point of arguement. In fact I'd bet the percentage of hunters who can hit a pie plate at 250 yards is incredibly low.

I'm not professing to be an expert but when a blanket statement is made about "whats best" or whatever that persons choice is is the "best" I think they are being narrow minded. I said I haven't had my .25-06 long and have not tried everything. Smedly pointed out a twist rate chart for reference. (good one)

It's really up to the rifle what it's going to like. My barrel has the same twist rate as the Savage does I'm pretty sure, and mine shoots well with bullets over 100gr., as Smedly points his preference for 110gr Accubonds.

Just don't like to have the guy who's searching for success to get advice to ignore something that may be his "perfect load". That was the premise of this thread, to offer up experience with what will work well in this rifle. Nate

Grouping is NOT everything.

Often the bullets that shoot best don't perform as well. (SMK's?)

IF I have shot four deer with a 25-06 and the only one that didn't collapase on the spot was one that was in mid-air when struck what is there that a 115/120 could have done better?
How can you possibly say "the 100 doesn't kill any better"? while I'll admit that four deer aren't statistically significant I can say it doesn't kill any worse than the 115/117/120.
Though I never found a 117gr load that my rifle was happy with so I didn't use them....

Can you say that the 115 "kills better" than
a 100gr that exits 4-of-4 time and drops all four deer?

Yeah, I might consider using the bigger bullets on say.... a Mule deer because they tend to be 50% larger than whitetails, but I don't live in mule deer country.

I can say that a 100 recoils a bit less and shoots somewhat flatter...

I'm sure if you try you can find a 100 that shoots well.
Splitting the difference with a 110gr Accubond?
Why not?

From all reports the Accubond combines the aerodynamic performance of the ballistic tip with the terminal performance of the partition.

Vehicle shown with optional equipment, your mileage may vary....

I'll stick to my original statement, that the 25-06 is at it's best with 100gr bullets.
If you bother to take the time to try them you'll certainly find one that shoots.
And for what 100gr bullets won't do in a 25-06 you might actually be better served with a larger caliber rifle.

Vehicle shown with optional equipment, your mileage may vary....

I have long maintained that mid-weight bullets are usually best in each caliber and that it'd better to move up in bore size if you want to move up in bullet weight.

Vehicle shown with optional equipment, your mileage may vary....

For the 25-06 100grain is the "mid-weight".

Vehicle shown with optional equipment, your mileage may vary....


AllanD


P.S:
Vehicle shown with optional equipment, your mileage may vary....

Allen, I think your coming around!

You said grouping isn't everything and I agree to a point. But the ballistic merits you have brought up only become of importance at a distance where accurate shot placement is an absolute must! A tiny group at 100 yards is a good start to being able to shoot at greater distances.

I never said the heavier bullets kill better did I? I believe I said I thought they (heavier) work as well or better. And from my experience it's hard to tell.

I do hunt Mulies, but a big Whitetail isn't much difference. There are folks using it on elk with success but I'd not recommend it if there were other choices.

I never said I won't use 100's.

In fact if you look back at what I've written, not once did I put down your choice, you, or anything of the sort. What I did do, is tell you I disagree with you about "the .25-06 being at it's best with 100's". The 100's have some merit , but IMHO the .25-06 isn't limited in any way to that weight.

The question was asked about twist rate basically. My response was to indicate that the 1 in 10" twist would stabilize a heavier bullet, and that the statement you made wasn't gospel.

If you try some 120's Like say the Sierra HP you may find that you like them. They do act like a .270, which for deer isn't a bad thing.

When you mention moving up in caliber that too isn't a part of this arguement for me as it wasn't part of the original question. I have plenty of toy's to use on deer, but my favorites are the .257 Roberts and now, the .25-06. They both work very well, without being to big.

My Roberts by the way shoots the 100gr X very well, so that is what I use in that one.

I'm not predjudice against much. Have you tried the 90gr? Nate

Allan- I am a bit tired and to lazy to go back through all the writings to date.

So, here is the Q to you. How many critters and what kind have you killed using the 100's and also the same for the 115-120's?

Ooops one other Q for you how many different 25/06's have you personally worked with to develope loads for?

Thx

Mark D

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
Allan- I am a bit tired and to lazy to go back through all the writings to date.

So, here is the Q to you. How many critters and what kind have you killed using the 100's and also the same for the 115-120's?

Ooops one other Q for you how many different 25/06's have you personally worked with to develope loads for?ThxMark D

Dog gone it ,Mark, Allan was just warming up. roger

Well, I haven't read all this thread so, maybe this has been covered. IIRC, one advantage of a heavier bullet is not just better penetration per se, but rather good penetration combined with a larger expanded diameter. (This, of course, is meant to apply to lead-core bullets.) I think this is a significant part of the explanation of why the 140-160 6.5mm bullets are WAY more effective than it seems like they should. With lots of nose to expand to a sizeable diameter for a large wound channel, yet still maintain weigh in the bullet shank for aiding penetration...

The smaller bore PT bullets are an interesting case as frequently the front core is obliterated if the impact velocity is high, leaving the rear core intact, which penetrates to beat the band, but leaves a relatively small wound channel. Interestingly, the PT will often penetrate less at lower velocities, but with a larger would channel because the front core mushrooms more, instead of peeling away...

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
Allen, I think your coming around!

You said grouping isn't everything and I agree to a point. But the ballistic merits you have brought up only become of importance at a distance where accurate shot placement is an absolute must! A tiny group at 100 yards is a good start to being able to shoot at greater distances.

I never said the heavier bullets kill better did I? I believe I said I thought they (heavier) work as well or better. And from my experience it's hard to tell.

I do hunt Mulies, but a big Whitetail isn't much difference. There are folks using it on elk with success but I'd not recommend it if there were other choices.

I never said I won't use 100's.

In fact if you look back at what I've written, not once did I put down your choice, you, or anything of the sort. What I did do, is tell you I disagree with you about "the .25-06 being at it's best with 100's". The 100's have some merit , but IMHO the .25-06 isn't limited in any way to that weight.

The question was asked about twist rate basically. My response was to indicate that the 1 in 10" twist would stabilize a heavier bullet, and that the statement you made wasn't gospel.

If you try some 120's Like say the Sierra HP you may find that you like them. They do act like a .270, which for deer isn't a bad thing.

When you mention moving up in caliber that too isn't a part of this arguement for me as it wasn't part of the original question. I have plenty of toy's to use on deer, but my favorites are the .257 Roberts and now, the .25-06. They both work very well, without being to big.

My Roberts by the way shoots the 100gr X very well, so that is what I use in that one.

I'm not predjudice against much. Have you tried the 90gr? Nate

Sadly the Barnes 90gr X-bullet simply wasn't available during the time period (early 90's)
I had a 25-06, my use of 100gr bullets was with the 100grain Nosler Partition.

And I never commented on the 25-06 NOT stabilizing the 120's my issue with the 120's
is that the 25-06 can't drive them faster than 3100fps. as As I've said several times The whole "legend" of the 25-06 is about being fast and flat-shooting.

3100fps isn't as flat shooting as 3350fps.

In my mind a 25-06 with 120's is about as fast and flat as a 264Win with 140's, the 7mmRem with 160's a 300WnMag with 180's... Uhhhh...
Wait a second, mabey 3100 with a 120gr isn't so bad after all

Driving bullets at the speed a 30-06 can drive 165's is "Boring" to steal a word from someone in another topic. except I suppose to the animal they run into



But as I said above...
I don't disagree that the 120's penetrate well and take game, my point based on the several whitetails I shot
with my 25 was that the 100's worked superbly and that heavier bullets weren't going to improve the cartridges effectevness by any material degree.

In short all the animals died where they stood
(except for Miss nose dive) I can't imagine how I could get better results... (your Mileage may vary?)
We seem to be taking a lot of time discussing differing opinions, but likie I said on another forum, and I type 60wpm, I have a keyboard and I'm not afraid to use it!

If you prefer 115/117/120's go for it.

THE reason I brought it up is the number of people on these forums who seem to prefer heavier bullets for caliber... and if you only read those recomendations you might never try
the lighter ones....

What I'd like to play with next is a short throated 6.5x55 with 100gr partitions...
But I'm getting a new 7mmMag first.

AllanD

Allen,

I tend to agree with you and for all the same reasons.

I have been shooting the 25-06 since 1968 when it was still a wildcat, and currently own 3.

03A3 w/26†SS Shilen – yr. built 1968
Model 70 w/26†SS Shilen – yr. built 1969 or 70
Mk X w/26†CS, unknown maker – yr. built UN. I've had it 20+ years.

The original rifles were built to shoot 100 gr. bullets at 3400 fps+ since they shoot the flattest – the main reason for building them. Shooting heavier bullets may work for some, but defeats the purpose these rifles were built for.

I have killed probably 15 – 20 antelope, 10 – 12 WT, and 10 – 12 MD, and one elk with the 25-06. Per my previous post, all shot at less than 250 yards went straight down. I have only killed maybe a half dozen over 400 yards. Only one shot at over the magical range of 500 yards wasn’t a one shot kill. A howling Wyoming wind drifted the bullet more than expected and hit a bit too far back. She didn’t go down or run, but turned to face me. I didn’t risk a second shot and spent about 45 minutes getting closer, by which time she had laid down. That was about 12 years ago, and I haven’t made such a long shot since.

Of three average people trying to decide what caliber rifle to buy, all picked the 25 after shooting one of mine on soda cans filled with water at 300-500 yards. Two were factory model 70’s, the other a 26†SS Shilen on a Mauser. A fourth went with a Savage after shooting a large MD buck with my rifle. One of these swears it is the best elk rifle he has ever had after shooting elk and having them drop in their tracks. I didn’t experience that and use larger diameters for larger game.

Three of the four folks mentioned above were experienced hunters and had taken their own share of animals prior to going to the 25-06. All shoot the 100 grain bullets after seeing the difference they make.

Have I tried every bullet/powder/primer/case combo? No. Why? I guess it’s the same reason one quits looking for their car keys once they find them, and knowing what they are looking for in the first place. The observation of the killing power wasn’t a factor and didn’t come until many animals later.

The garden variety Remington bulk 100gr PSP core-lokt over AA MagPro powder is very accurate in my Colt-Sauer. No blowup on a whitetailed doe at 50 feet.

Barnes XFB 85 grain worked wonders on Namibian springbok.

I have found no use for 117's or 120's as I use a larger caliber for larger game than deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Paladin 56:03A3 w/26†SS Shilen – yr. built 1968
Model 70 w/26†SS Shilen – yr. built 1969 or 70
Mk X w/26†CS, unknown maker – yr. built UN. I've had it 20+ years.

I've decided to buy a Springfield 03A3 action to build a 25-06, and my preference would be to use a barrel from Dan Lilja.
I'm not sure that I'll be able to afford one.

but I might if I keep an eye on his "specials".

AllanD

Allan,

After working nearly 6 months in WV and flying into Charleston, it occurred to me that Douglas barrels was anchored there. I got the chance one day to take a drive to see how barrels were made. After numerous questions, I took a tour. Quite the interesting place with a lot of friendly people. I returned every chance I got, usually with more questions. After seeing the place, meeting the people, watching the process and asking too many questions, I have become convinced it would be difficult for anyone to make a better barrel.

This is not to say that they are the only barrel maker worth having, or others don’t make an exceptional product. I’m just saying that any gun barrel I purchase in the future will be a Douglas. I ended up buying two barrels from them as it was. They did speak highly of two other well known barrel makers.

The first was a gift for a friend that owned a 700 Mountain Rifle. It was a 25-06 with the 22†factory barrel. He has been around a long time, is a better than average shot with many years of reloading experience. He never could get that rifle to shoot better than an 1 ½â€. He is one that likes 87 grain bullets. I had mentioned my experiences with the 100’s and H4831, but he tried them with no better success after running through all the normal accuracy checks (mounts, scope, bedding, etc.). He had never owned a SS barrel, so I bought Douglas’ pre-chambered, threaded replacement barrel for him. Much to our dismay, we found the replacement to be only 20†in length, at which point I figured I may as well have had it chambered for the 250 Savage, since the 25 works best with longer tubes, 26†being the about the best. 6†shorter certainly wouldn’t take advantage of the slower burning powders.

After having a ‘smith swap barrels and final chamber, he tried it out with the best loads used in the factory barrel. The first revelation was the smaller group size. Using the same load as before, groups shrunk by better than half, but the real surprise came while shooting over the clock. Velocity actually increased by 50-100 fps. The jury is still out on the full potential of this rifle as load development is on going.

Two things about this particular rifle remain unexplained, the first of which is the poor grouping of the original barrel. This is the only 25 I’ve seen that didn’t shoot well out of the box. The folks at Douglas actually tried to talk me out of buying the replacement. When I told them what I doing, the first thing he said was, since it’s a Remington, I should start by re-crowning it. I explained I was aware there were some things we hadn’t done, but my purpose was to buy the man a SS barrel he had never had.

Of course the second was the velocity increase with the shorter barrel. The only thing I can deduce, is the finish of the bore. I was told Douglas is the only barrel maker that grind and finish their own buttons. I don’t know this for a fact, but have no reason to doubt what was said.

If I recall correctly, and this applies to all statements requiring memory, the way they design and make their buttons allows them to use one button per caliber (excluding different blank heats), regardless of twist desired, whereas others have a different button depending on the twist rate required. The finish of the button is such that bore lapping only results in a bore that will never again equal the finish obtained during rifling. I may have the numbers wrong, but I believe the button leaves an 8-10 micron finish, while the best that can be achieved by lapping is 12-15 micron. While maybe not correct numbers, the end result is the same. I really don’t see why Flitzing a bore after lapping would not achieve the same results given enough time and effort.

Cryogenic stress relief treatment testing indicated no improvements.

Knowing what I know now, I would have gotten a Douglas for the 7x57 and 416 Taylor I am building.

Something to think about.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
Allan- I am a bit tired and to lazy to go back through all the writings to date.

So, here is the Q to you. How many critters and what kind have you killed using the 100's and also the same for the 115-120's?

Ooops one other Q for you how many different 25/06's have you personally worked with to develope loads for?

Thx

Mark D

Allen here is a question I asked you a couple of days ago. When you get a chance go ahead and fill us in on your experiences.

I personally use and really like the 25/06 a lot so am looking forward to hearing from another user of a 25/06 on game like deer/lopes etc.

You obviously like the 100's a lot better than the 115/120's and I am just curious as to why.

Many thanks

Mark D

Smedley what load are you using in the tika with the 110 gr accubonds?
I just got one and the only powder I have goten to shoot any good at all is IMR 3031,using the max 45.5 IMR gives 3250 al I can get is a little over 3100 (would have to go back and check my notes to be exact.) I just got a box of the 110 accubonds to try next.
This is the first tika that I have owned and I am so far very disappointed with the accuracy.I have shoot several in different calibers because my friends have them and all of them are accurate.
Shot one friends 308 varmit T-3 the other day and got four in a row 3-shot groups that were one holers.beginning to think now that I should have gotten a 308 varmit.
Thanks for any info in advance on the tika.