quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
Allan- I am a bit tired and to lazy to go back through all the writings to date.

So, here is the Q to you. How many critters and what kind have you killed using the 100's and also the same for the 115-120's?

Ooops one other Q for you how many different 25/06's have you personally worked with to develope loads for?

Thx

Mark D

Allen here is a question I asked you a couple of days ago. When you get a chance go ahead and fill us in on your experiences.

I personally use and really like the 25/06 a lot so am looking forward to hearing from another user of a 25/06 on game like deer/lopes etc.

You obviously like the 100's a lot better than the 115/120's and I am just curious as to why.

Many thanks

Mark D

Mark,

OK, not that I haven't typed this before....

the 100gr Partitions exit and the animals have dropped on the spot (3-of-4 anyway)
Tell me, what exactly is the 115/120 supposed to do to a deer that the 100 in my experience already does? which BTW is kill the target animal cleanly....

So if a 100gr bullet exits at shots taken inside of 100yds I'm not going to be worried about "blowups".

I can say that particularly at longer ranges the 100's are simply easier to get on target
(I'm not talking paper here).
And the sight correction is smaller between the 75, 87 and 100gr bullets.

Frankly I've already discussed why I like the
100's. simply put I didn't buy a 25-06 with the pointless intention to turn it into a "thumper"...
I bought it as a rifle primarily to reach out and touch woodchucks beyond the normal reach of my 223.

I let my Varmint rifle go years ago because for en years I had nowhere to shoot woodchucks
Now I do and I recently got a shiny new 223.

My discussion in a topic on a 223 Rifle was
that I see no purpose in attempting to turn a 223 into a 243 by using heavy bullets in it.
any more than I see a purpose in turning a 25-06 into a 270 by using 120's.
This SHOULD makes sense if you think about it...

the only reason I didn't kill more deer with my 25-06's is because I spent time playing in the woods with other rifles....

Sadly to date I've only managed to shoot one deer with my 45-70.

I have owned many rifles since I bought my first one in 1980... Damn, it's been that long?

How many 25-06's have I personally developed loads for? if you count two different barrels
on my own rifles, three.
there's probably someone who's played with more, but I suspect that's more than most.

I've had a factory Remington "Cut" tube that was original to the rifle, a later hammer-forged tube (that was actually better) and a friends Ruger Varmint rifle.

and to be perfectly honest I can't clearly remember if the second 25-06 barrel actually went onto that particular Rem700 or onto another rifle that I later turned into
a 270Win and sold.

I know that I've had two different 30-06 barrels on the Rem700ADL I still have.
I don't really want to discuss the semi-stupidity that killed the first 30-06 barrel

the first 25-06 barrel was killed by pure unadulterated youthful exuberance...
in short I burned it out. Thinking back it was around 1200-ish rounds, 75gr Hollow Points
with truely massive charges of IMR4831
(I won't discuss the charge weight, so don't ask, but it was several grains over any published load data) the second barrel lived longer, but not by much I'd guess around 1500rounds, from the same cause...

Thinking about it in the fog of 20years in the past the Ruger seemed happy enough with the initial loads I developed for it with all weights except the 75gr Hornady's which it didn't like for some reason, but it shot the various 87gr bullets so well that any of four different 87's could be loaded over the same powder charge and shoot 3/4" or so, though unsuprisingly, not to the same point of impact.

I have to go on memory because the logbook I kept for the ruger is with the ruger and I haven't seen Scott since..... 1986?
And the specific logbooks for several rifles I no longer have disappeared when I moved out of NJ in '96, happily I didn't lose any of the logbooks for rifles I still had....

And I just realized, I haven't mentioned that my Remington 25-06's were both 24" sporter weight barrels, NOT Varmint barrels.

I know I can't prove it, but I suspect that a sporter weight 25-06 that shoots 75's well probably won't play as nice with 120's.

Neither of my 24" sporter weight barrels liked 120's, Scott's Ruger seemed happy with them, but Scott was watching when I shot one of the three does I killed with the 100's and wanted me to work up a load with the 100gr Partition.

I've always wanted a long action 25-06 varmint rifle, but I don't particularly want a Ruger.
I'll either build a Springfield or lose patience and buy a Savage 25-06 Varminter, but in either case I probably won't develop deer loads for it with either 100gr or 120gr bullets,
because unlike 1984, I have a 7mmMag and can drive 120gr XBT's at speeds the 25-06 had trouble driving 100gr Partitions to...

MOST of this discussion is about philosophical distinctions rather than factual ones, but what discussion on these forums isn't?

AllanD

So Allan if I get this right there has been more than a fair bit written about the superiority of the 100's over the 120's on deer/lopes etc. The vast majority of it by you.

But, you've not taken a head of game with the 120's? Yep I can see where that makes sense.

Thanks for satisfying my curiousity.

Mark D

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:
So Allan if I get this right there has been more than a fair bit written about the superiority of the 100's over the 120's on deer/lopes etc. The vast majority of it by you.

But, you've not taken a head of game with the 120's? Yep I can see where that makes sense.

Thanks for satisfying my curiousity.

Mark D

Mark,

you are ging from INDUCTIVE logic in ASSuming that since I haven't used 120's (beyond aborted atempts at load development) that my experience with 100's is invalid.

What is a bullet supposed to do?
Lets go down the list:
1)It is supposed to fly true to the target
2)It is supposed to expand in a controlled manner inside the animal and retain weight.
3)It is supposed to penetrate as deeply as possible.
4)Kill the animal cleanly.

What is a bullet NOT supposed to do?
1) Blow up
2)Fail to penetrate
3)"Pencil through"
(add other as you choose)

the 100gr partitions at nearly 3400fps didn't blow up, penetrated the animal completely and essentially dropped them on the spot. (more or less)

Now I ask again, WHAT IS THE 120gr supposed to do that the 100 didn't do?

You can wiggle and squirm and be insulting and dismissive but I'll take a page from your book and ask that question in every frigging post YOU make until you answer it.

MABEY I'd use 120's if I was shooting larger animals, But I do own other rifles now and I simply didn't have that option then...whichj was why I was using what I bought as a "varmint rifle" for deer.

Though I'm as contradictory as anyone else as last several years (or is it 10 years) I've gone hunting (license orange hat and all) with a 30-06.

I marvel at the guys in the woods carrying a 300Mag to kill a whitetail, must be expecting armored deer....

I think most bullet "failures"
and wounded animals are due to plain old fashioned poor marksmanship.

My 25-06 story is that I just put a new winchester sporter on layayay. I've got a 270 I shoot 130 grain bullets with for deer and maybe antelope. I've got a soon to be 12 year old daughter that will use a 243 and 100 grain bullets for the same critters. I also have a soon to be 15 year old daughter who will use the 25-06. I plan on loading 117 grain bullets for the 25-06 to go in between the 243 and 270.

I've got other younger kids waiting in line to hunt big game and when they get older I'll have the 3 guns to play with. Then I'll probably use the 243 with 55 grain bullets for varmints and the 25-06 and 100 grain bullets for the bigger stuff.

So you guys can argue away about the 100 and 120 or so grain bullets.

Kind of an unrelated story but I will share it nonetheless.I made a nice gong the other day and took it to the range today and set it up at 300 meters.Shot at it with my 375 H&H with 260 accubonds and 300 gr hornady interlock Round noses.They made the plate swing pretty good.shot it a half dozen times with my 25-06 at the same 300 meter distance and be darned if the 25-06's didnt darn near penetrate the plate.The 375's made a helluva dent but the little 100 grain hornady interlocks almost went through!!!.I think I found a new longer range deer load for my new gun!!On a side note I cannot believe the fantastic accuracy I am getting out of my stevens 200.

quote:

Originally posted by machinistbutler:
Kind of an unrelated story but I will share it nonetheless.I made a nice gong the other day and took it to the range today and set it up at 300 meters.Shot at it with my 375 H&H with 260 accubonds and 300 gr hornady interlock Round noses.They made the plate swing pretty good.shot it a half dozen times with my 25-06 at the same 300 meter distance and be darned if the 25-06's didnt darn near penetrate the plate.The 375's made a helluva dent but the little 100 grain hornady interlocks almost went through!!!.I think I found a new longer range deer load for my new gun!!On a side note I cannot believe the fantastic accuracy I am getting out of my stevens 200.

First time I ever shot at a steel plate I was facinated by the effect...

the bullets don't "pierce" the plate as much as they generate sufficient heat that a hole is burned through the plate like it was done with an Oxy-Aceylene cutting torch (all-be-it one with a REALLY BIG tip
30-06 made 5/8" holes with a big burr on the back. 223Ball made depressions that looked for all the world like you stuck the first joint of your pinkie finger into soft clay and about 1/3 of the time the 223 bullet's jacket was found turned completely inside out with not even the faintest trace of the lead core.

In twilight at 50-75yards the star white FLASH of impact followed by the glowing hot metal fading down from yellow to orange to red as you watch the heat spread through the metal radially from the new hole is an absolutely facinating effect.... one I rarely get tired of watching.

AllanD

I mentioned in my first post that Allan has some good points, I have done it both ways.Actually, with a 26" barrel & some of the new slow powders(RL25 works great) the spread
can be more like 200FPS between the 2 weights if the heavy is a 115BT or 117Sie.BT, making the lighter a little flatter still in the std. case, but to me the diff. under these circumstances is pretty small. But as you know, when we go to a bigger case within any of the calibers, the difference in traj. between the lighter & the heavier bullets will shrink a little more because the heavier charges & heavier bullets will tend to be a little more efficient.
So in looking at that, we decided to Ackley our Sendero's & go the heavier bullet route. We found out that the 125 Wildcat flew about the same as a 200MK in 30 cal. We can get 3,250FPS with this even heavier bullet. We can get 3,550-almost 3,600 with the 100BT. Due to the extreme BC, we are within 1" on the rise out to 300 yds. & within 2" of the drop to 500 & then the 125 starts pulling away after that. The trajectory for both is easy to plot out the max. that I will shoot at a game animal & would be a tossup. But the energy is much higher with the bigger bullet & because the bullet is soft up front, it will expand way out there. Because it has a long shank it will penetrate well.
But here is the difference & I had to rethink things when we go out West. The wind drift difference is not even close, remember the tra. can be plotted & we have range finders, but the wind can kick your butt, this is the difference that matters to me.

I worked a 25-06 over for 4 years. I only shot 100grn becasue that is what I bought first and that is what the gun liked. IMR4831 shot extremly well. 4350 was the recommended powder and it did not do well at all in my gun. It shot incredible groups, struck deer like a lighting bolt. I used 100BT from 20feet to 150yards same out come bang, flop 6 times in a row. The 100grn B-tip performed better than the 150 7mm B-tip IMO. I had problems leaving my 280 at home so it now wears a 338 barrel to shoot real heavy bullets in case I get to go north of the border someday. That 110 Accubond should be sweet for deer and coyotes. A 105 SMK or a 95gr Beger would be serious chuck medicine for a long ways out. My load was a Fed210m, Win Brass, 100Gr B-tip, (N/Ps loaded the same way still shot <moa) max load from the Nosler #5 man of IMR4831. Shot the bullets and loads that work the best and shoot them a bunch. For deer I would say anything from 100-120 that is not a match or varmit bullet will do make a clean kill as far as you can hit one.

Hey paladan56:

been trying to reply to you but have been unable to. I've got a few questions about your knowledge of the 25-06.

I just recently purchased a 25-06 and had it improved by my gunsmith to 25-06AI, either regular or AI versions I would choose a 100 grain Barnes TSX bullet, and put some RL-22 behind it. In the standard version you should be able to get to around 3350 to 3400 fps, add 100 to 150 fps for the improved version. I like this setup as it is fast, flat, and will hit with authority with the 100 gr TSX bullet.

i bought a rugger mkll 25-06 last year stainless with sporter barrel.

the loads i have tryed used nosled 86 grain balistic tips at 3600 fps

100 barn tsx boat tail load showed promis groups in the 1.5 and under range

115 grain tsx groups in the .625 .875 range 53 grain of rel 22 with the fed 210 gm primers and remington brass.

but i went to the range yesterday the tempeture was much warmer 70-75 degrees compared to freezing.

my point of impact was 1" virtcal and groups were a bit larger.

mind you the barrel is not free floated and is completely stock.

i plan on free floating the barrel befor i do anymore shooting or im going to drive my self nuts. cause it has to be affecting my shooting.

as far a synthetic stocks for the ruger i was thinking going with a mc millan sysntheic what do you guys think.

this gun is basicly going to be used for deer and coyotes so i wann stick with a 100 grain bullet if at all possible.

what do you guys think of the 100 grain swift aframe for the 25-06.

Allen and others, "If I could only only one rifle(GOD FORBID) it would be a 25-06 of some sort!! 1-10 twist QUALITY BARREL would probably give superb accurracy using the 75 grain VMAXS and VARGET!!! Step up to the 85 or 87 grain offerings from various manufacturers and RELOADER 19 will do the deal!! Go up to the 100,115,117, 120's and then IMR 4350 or H4831 would be the choice!! Give me one rifle to do the deal on varmints to deer(BIG DEER!!) and it would be the 25-06!!! GHD(pastor at the church of GHD,,,the 25-06!!)

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
Allen and others, "If I could only only one rifle(GOD FORBID) it would be a 25-06 of some sort!! 1-10 twist QUALITY BARREL would probably give superb accurracy using the 75 grain VMAXS and VARGET!!! Step up to the 85 or 87 grain offerings from various manufacturers and RELOADER 19 will do the deal!! Go up to the 100,115,117, 120's and then IMR 4350 or H4831 would be the choice!! Give me one rifle to do the deal on varmints to deer(BIG DEER!!) and it would be the 25-06!!! GHD(pastor at the church of GHD,,,the 25-06!!)

If I could only have one rifle (I agree, God Forbid!) it's probably be my heavy barreled 7mmMag.

It kinda "out 25-06's the 25-06..." if you take my meaning.

120gr XBT's at 3450 and into 3/4"

I haven't tried the Speer 110gr TNT's in this particular rifle yet, but that should be some serious "groundhog devestation"

AllanD

quote:

what do you guys think of the 100 grain swift aframe for the 25-06.

For the 250-3000 and 257 Robertts I'd think it's the best one can shoot (I haven't tried it yet) but for the 25-06 I'd still go with what has worked so well and that's the Hornady 120 HP.....damn thing just works like a piece of majik
The A-Frame would also be good for the 25-06 but why spend the extra for something that does so well at less cost??? Just my $.02

johnnyappleseed55,

I've sent 3 private messages with no reply. Try again.

Lots of interesting back and forth on this caliber here. Been shooting one since '69 when I had to build it 'cause Remington wasn't producing them in the Mod. 700. Had to load my own ammo back then 'cause no one was making any.

26" Douglas sporter barrel married to a 98 Mauser action.

I've taken white tails, mule deer, pronghorns, one elk, coyotes, crows, and one squirrel with it.

I've loaded from 75 grain Sierra's up to 120 grain Hornaday's. For deer and elk, it's the 117 grain bullet. For anything under that, it's 85 grain bullets, generally Barnes X, but have loaded Sierra, Hornaday, Speer, and Nosler.

Powder has always been IMR-4350...just tinkered with the load 'til I found the one it liked.

However, with all the talk about everything else, bullet placement is key. Knowing your own capabilities, and the rifle's capabilities, and putting the bullet where it needs to go, and knowing you can put it there is what it's really all about.

Just my $0.02 worth on this subject.

There is lots of good dope here and thanks.

Mr. Appleseed. Email me at home. I'm interesting in a BLM hunt around there with you. I'll bring the the tuck.

I got some 25/06 dies from ebay and still am up in the air over which bullets to buy. There are so many opinions that I am dazed and confused.

Big John

I have a model 700 I got when Remington first introduced the 25-06 as a standard cartridge. It isn't fussy about bullets, but 100gr Nosler BTs are its favorites. It is, however, fussy about powder ... IMR 4350 is the only powder it likes, surprisingly, the 4831's spray the paper. (for a 25 anyway).

I too prefer the 100's over the 120's in .25-06, then I'm not elk hunting with it either. My rifles (2) and another I load for have all liked the 100's better, though I did some promising work with the 115 Partition, still the 100's shot better and performed fantastic on mulies, antelope and were overkill for unfortunate coyoyes. I really like the Hornady 100 interlok spirepoints, fanatstic in the .257 bob too. XLC's were the go to in the -06's, the TSX's are awesome in the bob and we'll see how they do in the -06's. I can say I've never had poor performance from the 100 partition or Hornady's on game, the XLC's were awesome- so good I never bothered to work hard with the 115's. The X's TSX or XLC's have shoot better and had less drop that the spitzer partitions in my loads so they got the nod. I'm working the 110 accubond in both .257 bob and the -06's, it's a comprimise weight and may be the go to bullet for the -06 flavor- we'll see. I think 100 grains is the weight for game in the bob and I've a great load with the TSX. On the varmint side the bob shoots the 75 vmax better than the -06 where the 85 BT really shines- both a more than a match for any coyote on the planet at ridiculous ranges and buck wind better than any .224" or .243" bullet designed for varminting on a low volume basis as the .25's are just a bit much to shoot all day and it's alot of powder to burn when a .224" will do what you need to. Given a dual purpose rifle either of the "popular" .25's make great sense within their limits and with their properties in mind. I'll never be without a .25 cal. rifle, ever.

has anyone tried the 100gr speer hot cores on deer or paper? what powder? thanks guys.

I am on my 3rd. I origionally used 75gr bullets for fooling around with and 100gr bullets, I think it was Speer Hot Cores, for hunting deer. With my second I switched to 117gr Hornadys and had good luck. Don't remember why I switched. But while I was using them I started loading for a friends 25-06. He went out and bought me 20 boxes of 117gr Hornadys as a gift. Well those bullets have been great and I've still got a good supply of them so I keep using them. They have shot thru every deer ans antelope I've shot with them and all have gone down dead within about 25 yds of where they were hit.

But if I could have but one and it had to be what I have now, I'd keep my 6.5x55 or my 6.5-06.