quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
People have killed deer and much bigger with a bow---and much less weapon than that and cant comprehend that a 3,000 fps bullet will do it? What am I missing? Seems obvious to me that a .223 will work.

Broadheads kill with cutting action. 3 razor sharp blades punching a 1 1/2" diameter hole through the chest cavity and vitals causes a lot of hemorrhaging instantly. I've seen videos of bow shot elk (Bulls of San Carlos) that have blood pouring out of them like you turned on your garden hose.

Bullets kill hydro-kinetically. Energy is important. That's why there are tables matching bullet weights, velocities, and game weight. Funny how we've come full circle huh?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
 
[QUOTE] Very neat! So neat that I'm sure you won't want to hear how neat it really is!

I'm posting on an iPhone right now.

When I hit the "quote" icon, it shows yours and Butch's posts but without the pictures. It only shows the photobucket tags with Butch's labels.

Those hogs are labeled "Lapua hogs"

Shame on you Butch!

The bottom photo has a very inconveniently placed 6X47 Lapua cartridge laying on it....

Hmmmmm....

WOW!! All of this and then phoney pics???

Guess things are never what they seem on the internet.

RC, Your a freaking idiot. The second photo shows a 22x47 Lapua. Check the tag again!
Butch

Hey, hey, hey, take it easy buddy.

No need to get nasty.

I checked and you're right; sorry. I just saw the "Lapua" tag and assumed it was the 6X since that was the cartridge along with the .223 Remington that was being discussed.

Still the pics are phoney. Shame on you for labeling them ".223 one-shot kills" when you confirm that they are not

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
RC, Your a freaking idiot. The second photo shows a 22x47 Lapua. Check the tag again!
Butch

At least this idiot knows how to spell "you're"

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
 
rcamuglia,
Did you see these 2 posts by Mr. Lambert by chance ?
Kinda neat eh ?........

Very neat! So neat that I'm sure you won't want to hear how neat it really is!

I'm posting on an iPhone right now.

When I hit the "quote" icon, it shows yours and Butch's posts but without the pictures. It only shows the photobucket tags with Butch's labels.

Those hogs are labeled "Lapua hogs"

Pretty neat, huh

Even if he had shot them with the .223, I would have no doubt about its possibility as I have established and said this entire thread. They look like 3 labs laying there.[/QUOTE]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are not telling the full story on your "Lapua hogs" iphone story are you rcamuglia..You are doing the same thing that you accuse others of doing eh? (right click photo and click properties).. I am not sure but isn't the 22X47 Lupua similar if not the same as a 22-250?
Then there is the little thing about Mr. Lambert friend shooting many hogs (up to 100) per year with a .223AI using a 45 TSX..
You know rcamuglia I am glad that you have kept this thread alive.. Had you not done so I wouldn't have given much thought on the .223 Rem. as a small to medium game rifle although years ago I did shoot/kill a nice muley buck (28") and a moose with .22 cal. rifles..
I am thinking now that the .22 cal. center fire just might do as a all around small/medium game rifle just like Dr. Ed Ashby suggests on page 65 in Barnes #3 reloading manual.. BTW he shot that zebra with a Ruger in .22 Hornet.. Look through the pictures section on pg. 37 and you'll the warthog shot by Brownie Tuke using a .22 Hornet and it goes on to say that she made 6 one shot kills with the Hornet.. Then on page 38 we see that Adam Goinz took a Impala with a .22 Hornet and on page 48 we see that little Lindsay Michael took a Impala with one shot at 140 yards after a one hour stalk..
My question and maybe you can help me, do you think that there is much difference between the .233 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. as I have both.. Keep in mind that these are factory rifles and the .223 Rem. has a 1:9 twist and the 22-250 Rem. has a 1:14 twist..
Awaiting your reply..

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
223 one shot kills.


I have a lot of others if you want to see them.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Kabluewy, I just wore out your email with stories and pics. Pat Byrne uses a 700, a Stiller receiver, and an AR. He is a killing machine. He probably kills 100 a year. His 223AI uses 45grn TTSX bullets. He uses 68grn BR bullets that he makes in his 6x47 and different sizes in his AR. I wish that I knew how to put all his emails and stories together in one area. I could also do that with his bow kills with his recurve.
Butch

rcamuglia,
Did you see these 2 posts by Mr. Lambert by chance ?
Kinda neat eh ?........

R
I bet you had a big block muscle car in high school and got consistently beat by small block Chevys.

Later in life you bought a SBChev and then got waxed by a Subie with too much boost.

Then you built the ultimate Subie and after breaking it in, some gray haired guy smoked you with a Duramax upgraded with a simple computer chip.

Can't you just be happy with what you have?

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
I am not sure but isn't the 22X47 Lupua similar if not the same as a 22-250?
Then there is the little thing about Mr. Lambert friend shooting many hogs (up to 100) per year with a .223AI using a 45 TSX..

My question and maybe you can help me, do you think that there is much difference between the .233 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. as I have both.. Keep in mind that these are factory rifles and the .223 Rem. has a 1:9 twist and the 22-250 Rem. has a 1:14 twist..
Awaiting your reply..

Amazing that you think the .223 Remington, 22-250, and 22X47 Lapua are identical.

There is at least 500 ft/lbs difference firing the same bullet.

quote:

You know rcamuglia I am glad that you have kept this thread alive.. Had you not done so I wouldn't have given much thought on the .223 Rem. as a small to medium game rifle although years ago I did shoot/kill a nice muley buck (28") and a moose with .22 cal. rifles..
I am thinking now that the .22 cal. center fire just might do as a all around small/medium game rifle just like Dr. Ed Ashby suggests on page 65 in Barnes #3 reloading manual.. BTW he shot that zebra with a Ruger in .22 Hornet.. Look through the pictures section on pg. 37 and you'll the warthog shot by Brownie Tuke using a .22 Hornet and it goes on to say that she made 6 one shot kills with the Hornet.. Then on page 38 we see that Adam Goinz took a Impala with a .22 Hornet and on page 48 we see that little Lindsay Michael took a Impala with one shot at 140 yards after a one hour stalk..
My question and maybe you can help me, do you think that there is much difference between the .233 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. as I have both.. Keep in mind that these are factory rifles and the .223 Rem. has a 1:9 twist and the 22-250 Rem. has a 1:14 twist..
Awaiting your reply..

Thank you for posting all of the names of your relatives and the rediculous things they've done. I had no idea the Pyle family was so extensive and the members were so proud of their moronic feats.

Anybody who would attempt to do the things posted above is a complete moron.

Moose with a .22 caliber and African big game with a Hornet! In the words of Hot Core..."PITIFUL".

quote:

R
I bet you had a big block muscle car in high school and got consistently beat by small block Chevys.

Later in life you bought a SBChev and then got waxed by a Subie with too much boost.

Then you built the ultimate Subie and after breaking it in, some gray haired guy smoked you with a Duramax upgraded with a simple computer chip.

You're doing much better, gunmaker! Almost creative! Not even close to my "Wayfaring Stranger" short story!

quote:

Moose with a .22 caliber and African big game with a Hornet! In the words of Hot Core..."PITIFUL".

Actually rcamuglia that moose dropped in it's tracks at the shot and didn't move a muscle.. I made a stalk with in about 15'-20' and shot it right between the lookers.. I wasn't hunting moose at the time but figured if I could get close enough for the above said shot there would be no problem as I had shot close to a doz. 1100lb.+ steers at that range using a .22RF when we were selling beef by the quarter..
Yes I know the difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. I have a lot of experience with the 22-250..Not so much with the .223

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:

quote:

Moose with a .22 caliber and African big game with a Hornet! In the words of Hot Core..."PITIFUL".

Actually rcamuglia that moose dropped in it's tracks at the shot and didn't move a muscle.. I made a stalk with in about 15'-20' and shot it right between the lookers.. I wasn't hunting moose at the time but figured if I could get close enough for the above said shot there would be no problem....

It just keeps getting better with you guys!

The .22 cals, big game, and ETHICS.

Thanks for admitting to the entire board that you are a poacher.

I'm sure you'll come back with "Of course I had a tag!", but if you weren't hunting moose in the first place, it's gonna be tough to make us believe that you bought one "just in case".

Thanks for the ammo!

Hilarious!!

You all fit right in with the poster child of the devastating .223 Remington deer rifle

A poacher?
Well you can think what you want I guess..
You sure seem to be grasping at straws eh?..

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
Yes I know the difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. I have a lot of experience with the 22-250..Not so much with the .223

Amazing!

A proxymoron who has LITTLE EXPERIENCE with the .223, but has an OPINION!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
A poacher?
Well you can think what you want I guess..
You sure seem to be grasping at straws eh?..

Killing game animals without a license is called "poaching".

u no rc, i ain't smart, but whar did he say he ain't got no lisense

Nice post butch!

quote:

I wasn't hunting moose at the time but figured if I could get close enough for the above said shot there would be no problem...

I'm waiting for the explanation as well....I guess it's gonna take a while to remove his foot from his mouth.

The silence is deafening.

Might be a good subject for a poll thread:

"How often do you kill big game when you are not hunting for them?"

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
Yes I know the difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. I have a lot of experience with the 22-250..Not so much with the .223

Amazing!

A proxymoron who has LITTLE EXPERIENCE with the .223, but has an OPINION!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Well compared to using a 22-250 I have less experience with the .223 Rem. I started out hunting coyotes with 22-250 and pretty much stuck with that cart. I have shot around 6-10 coyotes with the .223 Rem. and well over a hundred with the 22-250 along with some wolves..BTW if you want some real excitement you should try calling wolves sometime.. They come in to the call like they own the place.. I understand that you have wolves down in Montana and Idaho.. That's not good as we had a major problem with them killing our cattle..
If you recall I asked you in one of my posts above which cart. would be better..
Does that sound like someone who has a opinion on the .223 for hunting medium game?
So I'll ask you again in a different way.. Do you think that there is enough difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. to chose one over the other for hunting med. game (deer in this case)..

---------------------------------------------------------------
Killing game animals without a license is called "poaching".
----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes that is correct... I thought that was common knowledge..
I won't defend myself against your allegations that I am a poacher as you have already made up your mind about that.. And we have all seen what your mind produces when you get angry, eh?..
Try not to get angry.. Life is to short for that.. I speak from experience on that.. Still a student myself..

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
And we have all seen what your mind produces when you get angry, eh?..
Try not to get angry.. Life is to short for that.. I speak from experience on that.. Still a student myself..

Not one of my posts on this has been in anger or the result of it. To the contrary, I haven't laughed so much and had so much fun as I have had with this topic!

Sorry if they've come across that way!

When you see my posts, just picture me roaring with laughter and doing some knee-slapping like this guy...

But really, what were you doing shooting moose with a .22 cal when you weren't hunting moose? There's been plenty of time to get a story straight..........

I figure I'll have as many posts as Homebrewer by the end of this!

OK, since you won't tell us a story, I'll come up with a believeable one for you:

"I always get my moose tag every year, and one day, while I was hunting sod puppies during moose season, in moose country , I saw him. He was B&C and I couldn't waste the opportunity for a shot; I might never have had seen him again. Well, even though I only had my prarie dog gun, I made the stalk of my life resulting in a 15 foot brain shot. Of course I carry my moose tag with me at all times during potbelly shoots".

How's that?

quote:

Do you think that there is enough difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. to chose one over the other for hunting med. game (deer in this case)..

Intelligent, ethical folks with even a little knowledge of ballistics, would choose neither.

r

Is there enough difference in .223 and 22-250 to choose one over the other? In my books there is. To me a big plus for the .223/.222 is the reduced blast and recoil. The 22-250 has enough more of both to be right there with a .243, and I do choose .243 over 22-250(I have both--my .243 is my go to). An exception to this is using cast bullets. I shoot the 58 grain RCBS mold cast bullet about 2000-2200 fps in .222, and 22-250. I would in my .223 as well but I cant get the thang to shoot cast----but it is very accurate with jacketed. The cast load is great on jackrabbits. With reduced velocity, blast is greatly reduced which makes it more comfortable shooting from inside a pickup.

b,

It's my first one!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Is there enough difference in .223 and 22-250 to choose one over the other? In my books there is. To me a big plus for the .223/.222 is the reduced blast and recoil. The 22-250 has enough more of both to be right there with a .243, and I do choose .243 over 22-250(I have both--my .243 is my go to). An exception to this is using cast bullets. I shoot the 58 grain RCBS mold cast bullet about 2000-2200 fps in .222, and 22-250. I would in my .223 as well but I cant get the thang to shoot cast----but it is very accurate with jacketed. The cast load is great on jackrabbits. With reduced velocity, blast is greatly reduced which makes it more comfortable shooting from inside a pickup.

I'm with ya'!

I have no idea how folks take that unbearable muzzle blast and heavy recoil of the .243

Ah fahnd that shootin the 223 in the pickup is reely the bast cuz i donave to put down my beer cann..shoots reel eesy lak...an if I holt down the trger, tham litl shels dont take up so much spase wen thay strt ejectin all over the truk.

mabel laks it cuz them shels is cheep..we gonna get her sum teeth with the savins.

rcam---Get off your keyboard and go out for a night of heavy jackrabbit shooting and then you'll understand the blast comment.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
rcam---Get off your keyboard and go out for a night of heavy jackrabbit shooting and then you'll understand the blast comment.

Try some earplugs.

I shoot about 500 to 1000 12 gauge loads every weekend in practice. I can't imagine the pea shooter being unbearable.

In England they drive you around at night in the back of a pick-up to shoot literally hundreds of rabbits with shotguns.

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
Ah fahnd that shootin the 223 in the pickup is reely the bast cuz i donave to put down my beer cann..shoots reel eesy lak...an if I holt down the trger, tham litl shels dont take up so much spase wen thay strt ejectin all over the truk.

mabel laks it cuz them shels is cheep..we gonna get her sum teeth with the savins.

one more post to 1000 lifetime!

Now, iffin' I can keep this goin', only 12,092 to catch Homebrewer!

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Is there enough difference in .223 and 22-250 to choose one over the other? In my books there is. To me a big plus for the .223/.222 is the reduced blast and recoil. The 22-250 has enough more of both to be right there with a .243, and I do choose .243 over 22-250(I have both--my .243 is my go to). An exception to this is using cast bullets. I shoot the 58 grain RCBS mold cast bullet about 2000-2200 fps in .222, and 22-250. I would in my .223 as well but I cant get the thang to shoot cast----but it is very accurate with jacketed. The cast load is great on jackrabbits. With reduced velocity, blast is greatly reduced which makes it more comfortable shooting from inside a pickup.

Thanks for your reply carpetman..
I was a dumb cluck anyway for asking rcamuglia if there is enough difference between the .223 Rem. and the 22-250 Rem. to chose one over the other for hunting med. game (deer in this case)..He seems to enjoy belittling people and insulting them for sport, but in time he'll probably grow out of it..
I am a cast boolit fan myself and after not doing any serious hunting the last 17 years due to work and a bad back I am looking forward to hunting elk, moose, black bear, and deer with cast in a 9.3X74R rifle I just acquired.. Deer season up here extents into Nov. after elk and moose has been closed.. While I should have a deer by the time when I start predator calling I want to have a TSX load that will shoot close to the same point of impact as my 50-52 gr. HP and BT's in case my deer tag isn't cut and I see a legal animal..
Now regarding your RCBS mold.. How fat is the boolit out of the mold, and what is your favorite powder for cast in the .222/.223? .. I have never casted something that small.. Sounds like a challenge..

I miss your avatar over at castboolits! What a honey..
Guess that makes me a dirty old man as well as a poacher eh?..

rcamuglia,
What I was hunting at the time I saw that moose will have to be a mystery to you..Lets just say that your wife or girlfriend has one..
If I was going to poach anything I would use a 420 to 500 gr. pure lead HP out of my long barreled Buffalo Classic (45-70) at subsonic levels..
And yes I have enough ballistic knowledge to come up with such a load..

OK, How is this?


I've got a handfull of cows in the woods... A few days ago I left the gap open to try and trap them out on the prairie. I drove down this evening and saw most of the woods bunch out in the open country with the others.. I left the truck about 1/2 mile from the gap and went on ''afoot''... Went through the gap and was closing it thinking, ''I got 'em trapped.'' About then I looked down the creek about 600 yards and saw 3 or 4 cows, shit !! So I laid the gap back open and decided to loop around those 3 or 4 and see if I could get behind them.. I struck out through the woods intent on getting back in a few hundred yards so the cows wouldn't see or hear me. After making a loop of maybe 3/4 of a mile I started edging back towards the creek.. When I got to the opening I saw a few bucks come out of the creek, they'd been watering in a pothole.. One of them was pretty fair, the others just mullets. Didn't see the cows but decided to walk on up the creek another few hundred yards thinking I might see a pig in another mud hole farther up the creek.. When I got to the spot where I thought the mud hole was I eased up to the edge of the bank so I could see down into the creek bottom. Immediatly I saw where some hogs had been laying up in the slurry. When I scanned the creek bottom up towards where I was standing I was shocked to see a hog laying in the mud directly below me! From the bank I was standing on down to the pig was about 20 yards. I stood there thinking, ''that sob died right there in mudhole''.. Almost instantly I thought, no, and stood looking for an ear to twitch, anything that would tell me he was alive.
About that time he exploded out of his muddy bed and hooked 'em up the creek bank. I had the .223 slung on my shoulder so grabbed it and tried to get on the scalding hog. He was just too close to see through the 14 power scope so I just swung on him like I was shooting a shotgun. When I pulled the trigger he rolled but I was working the bolt to chamber a fresh round not having a clue where it hit him.. He regained his footing and took off for the woods again. This time I was able to find him in the scope and popped him behind the shoulder, he went down for the count !
Yep, the .223 with the 45 grain TSX's running 3,850 is hell on wheels !!!!!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

quote:
"A hunter should not choose the cal, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong"
Bob Hagel

Nice quote I found on the American Big Game hunting forum.

quote:

)..He seems to enjoy belittling people and insulting them for sport, but in time he'll probably grow out of it..

Not at all. Just pointing out all the self-belittling posts by you all.

quote:

What I was hunting at the time I saw that moose will have to be a mystery to you..Lets just say that your wife or girlfriend has one..

You hunt those with a .22 cal and a moose tag in your pocket?

This is getting weirder by the minute.

Ha!!..looks like a Lab to me Butch!

Lets us try one more and this is a 22X47 Lapua

Been working on some tax issues and started to loose my vision, looking at that crap... Decided I needed a break so I loaded up the 4 wheeler and went to the woods...

Was just riding around looking at cows and marveling at how wet it is... For the most part I was riding in several inches of water. The ground is rotten and even when walking you sink a couple of inches and for my killdee ass that's saying something!!

As I was going down a right of way I was mostly looking off into the woods. I happened to glance down the road and there were some pigs about 500 or 600 yards away. The wind was hitting me at about 5 o'clock.. I killed the buggy and cut off through the woods, trying to get out in front of the wind so I wouldn't spook them. I was paralelling the right of way about 200 yards back in the woods. When I thought I had gone far enough I started slipping back towards where I had last seen the group of pigs. I had about given up thinking they had slipped away when I happened to see them through the brush about 75 yards out. Started easing out the the left trying to find an opening and finally held my ground. In a moment the one on the right gave me a shot. Hit her in the neck and worked the bolt. The rest scattered but since I had the wind on them didn't really know which way to go. Several started circling me out to the left. They must have caught a wiff as the stopped in the high alert. The little spotted sow in the middle was broadside and in the clear. Smacked her in the neck at about 50 yards. The rest took off for higher ground. Had worked the bolt and was not moving, just looking. Then I spotted the black one off to the right. It was about 100-125 yards off and running through the woods, about broadside. I looked ahead of it and saw a small opening. Got the rifle up and was swinging on the hog as it ran through the brush. As soon as it entered the opening which was about 6' I shot. The crosshairs were out in front of its head by a few inches and I thought to myself, you missed but the pig cartwheeled... Hit it in the eye....
.223 Ackley, 55 NBT's @ 3,550...
Got lots of them, do you want more? Got several with the AR15 also.
Damn., I'm mixing up the 22x47 and 223AIs, sorry.
Butch


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
OK, How is this?

Yep, the .223 with the 45 grain TSX's running 3,850 is hell on wheels !!!!!!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great story butch. Sounds like it was fun too.

At that velocity it sounds like the AI version of the .223, right?

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
Ha!!..looks like a Lab to me Butch!

Took the words right out of my keyboard!

quote:

You hunt those with a .22 cal and a moose tag in your pocket?

This is getting weirder by the minute.

The hunting lic. is a small booklet slightly larger than the size of a credit card..When you buy your tag they stick it on one of the pages in your Hunting lic. book.. If you are out doing hunting season with a rifle it is best to have your hunting lic/tags with you... Even if hunting only you know what.. but then you have to have a separate Trappers Lic. for that..

Butch Lambert,
Great posts! It has been a long winter and to see green grass and read your hunting stories is a treat.
In 2 1/2 months it'll be so green here that it hurts your eyes..
Now you have me wondering if the little 45gr. TSX would lose its petals inside a coyote and exit with only a .22 cal hole at the vel. you are shooting them.. Have you ever shot a coyote "broadside" with a 45gr. TSX and if so how large was the exit wound?

Damn,
PM an email and I'll send you some coyote pics.
Butch