The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Wildcats And Their Development 300 Win Mag to 375?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Is anyone aware of any prior project to take a 300 Win Mag and neck up to a 375? I currently have a 300 Win Mag that needs a new barrel and I am looking for ideas to take it up to a 375 caliber. I know that the 350 Rem Mag has been changed to the 350-375 with some success. Any history, ideas, thought or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks. SD Hunter | ||
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look up the .375 taylor it's nothing new and it's a spectacular wildcat /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, Thanks for the info. I will chase that down. SD Hunter | |||
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SD Shooter, You are talking about the .375 Epstein. Mike Epstein was a Pro Baseballer who necked up the .300 Win Mag to .375. It was discussed on live TV nationwide in 1972 during the World Series coverage from Oakland, California, with Curt Gowdy chit-chatting with Mike Epstein. Read all about it in "Big Mike's .375 Epstein" pp. 505-510 of Vol. II WILDCAT CARTRIDGES by Wolfe Publishing Company. | |||
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Rip, Thanks for the info on the 375 Epstein. I will try to get a copy of the Wildcat Cartridges article. Do you happen to know if anyone has tried this recently? Or perhaps, why has no one tried this idea? SD Hunter | |||
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my friend larry has one.. matches the 375 HH at higher pressure... good round, but not worth the trouble over an HH jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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If your action is long enough I would just go with the round that the others try and copy. Hard to beat the 375 H&H. The Epstein and Taylor get close with higher pressure. If you don't mind the higher pressure then the H&H could be loaded to the same pressure increasing the gap between them. I would only use one of the two shorter cases if my action wouldn't allow the H&H case. Just my $.02 before morning coffee. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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You're probably $'s ahead to simply sell it and buy a 375 H&H, but I know such factors hardly ever factor into our gun buying/building decisions  __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I guess I am convinced. I won't sell the Husqvarna but I will buy a 375 H&H, probably a Remington 700. I really appreciate all of the input from everyone. You helped me make a better decision. Thanks! | |||
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Hold on there lads ; I was doing some reloading for my 375 Ruger this afternoon . there was a couple range pickup 300 Win cases on the bench. So I lubed them up and ran them thru the sizer die. I was impressed with how it looked. So I seated a 250 gr Sierra Game King in one and a 250 gr TTSX in the other. Both at around 3.320 " Really nice looking round. If I do another wildcat. This would be it. I seriously doubt we'll ever have a shortage of 300 Win mag brass. At least in Alaska.  The neck is close to the same length as the 375 Rugers neck so I don't see any problem with it. I imagine that from a 22" barrel it would push a 250 grain bullet @ 2750-2800 fps . Maybe a bit more. Main reason for the cart is an extremely reliable and inexpensive source of brass. And hopefully enough bullet diameter and weight to keep a guy from getting chewed on when general purpose hunting or for bear hunting. Will fit well in any standard action . Would be an easy and inexpensive rebore for any Ruger M77 Mk2/Hawkeye in 300 Win mag. They tend to have fat barrels. A crafty gunsmith could just run a 375 H+H reamer in far enough for the neck and leade. The only real expense would be a custom set of reloading dies. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Why neck up a 300WM when the 375 Ruger is already available, more capacity, and has readily available inexpensive brass?  +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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It's available as long as you have 375 Ruger brass. As long as a guy is all stocked up for long term . It's great. But, the 375/300 Win can be made from all kinds of belted brass. That's why I got a 375 Whelen AI. Can make brass for it from lots of different 06 base brass. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Back in the day, before all the non-belted magnums were available, a gunsmith friend of mine said that the 375/300Win Mag was one of his most popular conversions. virtually nothing was changed but the new barrel. | |||
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And if a guy Had a shot out 300 Win mag with a thick enough barrel . it could just be rebored and rifled. The 425 Express was just a necked up 300 win case. It seems to work superbly. For most things up here the 375 is totally adequate. And, it's not like I'm getting rid of my 458. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The belt causes problems if you reload. Normal resizing dies don't go all the way to the belt making chambering difficult after about 3 loadings. Unless you have one of the $150.00 resizing collet dies from Innovation Technologies. IMHO the conversion to 375 Ruger would be preferable. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Huh? Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Where did u hear that ? I've got belted brass that has been reloaded a dozen times and it still chambers just fine. Of all the questionable things I've ever heard against belted carts, That is close to the top for silliness. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Your barrels must have very large chambers. I've been reloading belted mags for almost 50 years. I have shot out the barrels and replaced them on two rifles. I CURRENTLY LOAD FOR A .300 MAG, .338 WIN MAG , 375 WEATHERBY 9RECHAMBERED FROM 375 H&H AND A 458. I DIDN'T HEAR THJAT FROM ANYONE. I LEARNED IT FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Edited because I forgot my 7mm RM. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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If the barrel had a very large chamber wouldn't the case expand more than the diameter of the sizing die? Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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YES IT WOULD BUT THE BELT AND WEB WOULD NOT EXPAND EXCESSIVELY UNLESS THE LOADS WERE OVERPRESSURE. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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The last time I was in Alaska the WalMart store in Kenai had a good selection of 375 Ruger ammo. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Yup, in a big city like Kenai. I don't know about your 50 years of reloading . But in my 35 years of reloading belted mags. I've never run into the problem you described. From 7 mag thru 500 A-2 . Ya , that just don't make a lik of sense. I've backed the size die out a full turn so I wasn't work hardening the case body , neck sizing. And gone 6 reloads . then full length resize then keep loading. With belted brass. For years and years I didn't own any non belted carts aside from handguns. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I have had lots of brass that I've discarded after many reloads because I was concerned about case head separation. But, I've NEVER experienced a case head separation personally. I want to apologize if my reply seemed rude. And I don't want to be disrespectful. But, neither myself nor anyone I know has experienced what your describing. And I don't know many people that buy high end reloading dies. Belted carts are just the cats meow for the bush Alaskan. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Innovative industries wouldn't make the investment necessary to produce that collet die if it didn't solve a real problem. After using the collet die my 375 Weatherby chambers rounds as smoothly as it would factory 30/06 if so chambered. I would really suspect that you have to push your bolt handle down against substantial resistance to chamber your reloads. Due to the shell holder the resizing die doesn't resize all the way to the belt. This collet die resizes that portion of the case right in front of the belt that your standard resizing die can't reach due to the shell holder and the chamfered mouth of your resizing die.. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Nope. Lots of guys love spending lots of bucks on fancy dies . No doubt that was the market II felt they could tap into. Apparently they were successful at it. I've never had a need for it So I spent my money on brass powder bullets and primers. Since the dies I had worked great as is. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I will say tho, that if someone had a need for that die . It sounds like a well thought out peice of reloading gear. However, The Bush Alaskan in me thinks that If it was a problem. The least expensive solution would be to troll up something like a 300 Win or Whby sizer die , and cut a bit off the base of the die and the whole top of the die. Just use about 1.5-1.75" section. Often dies can be picked up for 5-10 bucks on trades or hawk shops ect. That is the imho inspiration for this wildcat. Getting the most for the least. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Just an FYI. A 300 win case run into a 375 Ruger die will form it to the Ruger. Trim the case to the max case length and load 375 Ruger data. It irons out the Win case and leaves only a slight crease where the belt was formed and you have a 375 Ruger "Case". It would work as a substitute for the 375 Ruger brass if brass were not available. I've done it to see if it would work. It does. Not my first choice for brass, but it does work. Just a thought. | |||
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Really????? Do you have a pic of one of those cases ? Sounds good , having spare brass. ( a bit later) So , I took one of the .300 cases I had necked up and trimmed it. And it chambered up. I'll load one up And give it a try. I've got a bunch of old 300 Win brass laying around somewhere here. If it works it would at least make great blasting ammo. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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There are some pics and comments on the Africa Hunting site about a similar activity- making 404 Jeffery cases (no belt & slightly larger diameter) from belted cases. Although not as good as cases originally made for the 404, they do appear to be workable. | |||
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I can't understand why anyone would choose a 300/375 Wildcat over the factory available 375 Ruger. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Easy availability of less expensive, plentiful brass. That easily becomes a good all around cartridge. The fact is, 300 Winchester magnum brass isn't going away anytime soon. Reguardless how many beltless 30s get invented. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I did a half dozen cases years ago. I could dig around to find them, but I don't remember if I kept them. I just know it does work. Sorry I cannot provide the visual at this time. | |||
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That's fine. I still haven't found my stash of 300 brass. By and large I'll always use properly headstamps brass in my 375 Ruger. But it's nice to have options. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Dudes-- 375 Ruger brass is not going away! The 375 Ruger is growing, not retreating. On the other hand, Ruger Basic Brass might only have occasional runs, because that is for the wildcatting crowd. I'm not even concerned about the more stagnant sister, the 416 Ruger. When and if I get one of those, I'll probably get 200 pieces of brass. What would be nice is if Ruger ever decided that their RCM's in 300 and 338 are unnecessary good cartridges. Then they might do a real 338 Ruger. Meanwhile, I'm happy to shoot the 338WM and save $1500 of tooling costs.the wildcatters can always use 375 Ruger and Ruger Basic. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I still think the 375/300 WM would be a good wildcat. I should have built one 30 years ago. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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If Ruger came out with their case 60 years ago we wouldn't have all these skinny, less-efficient, belted magnums. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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In point of fact the only reason for the 375 Ruger cartridge was the M77 Mk2 Hawkeye Alaskan rifle. Had they made it in 375/300 Win Mag when they brought it out I would be just as or more happy. The fact is that the 375 Ruger won't do a thing that either the H+H or the 375/300 will do. Same as I've said for 10 years. All that matters is a 375 caliber cartridge that pushes a 300 gr bullet at 2500 fps plus and a 270 gr bullet @ 2700 fps plus. Same as the H+H has for a hundred years. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Actually, the Ruger will do about 100fps more than a 375/300WM with its 12-14% greater capacity. In many situations that doesn't make a hill of beans. But physics are physics, so why throw away a 100fps advantage? The 30-06 vs. 308 debate might be similar, where 100fps are given up for a smaller package, lighter carry, and allegedly more accuracy in the shorter powder column. But a 375/300WM wildcat gives up all of those potential advantages and also gives up the velocity. To each her own. (My attempt at PC  )And a PS: a 2.5"-2.6" belted 375 might benefit from 338 WM brass. The shoulder of the 300WM is too high for a good 375 neck. It needs to be pushed back at least to the 338 height. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I don't think so. With book loads the Ruger gives very similar velocities to a 20" barreled H+H or the 9.ex64 that I had. If a person stays with Sane loads the Ruger doesn't really get with the velocity program until a 23" barrel length. And keeps going the longer the barrel goes. And , you are greatly mistaken on the neck length of the 375/300. The neck is actually LONGER than the 375 Ruger. I had to trim a fair amount to get to 375 Ruger case length !  Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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