I hope this has not been hashed to death before. if so sorry. I would like to hunt with the AR. The parameters I would accomplish is a 100 grain bullet at better than 2500 out of a 20 inch barrel.
The case would have to be a necked up 223 , I refuse to chase cases.

Simple neck up operation.No head space change. Open neck , seat bullet, fire and forget.

The 7 tcu looks perfect but I don't know if it would fit into the magazine.

any design gurus worked this out...
Thanks

Thanks. Will the 100 grainer fit in the mag with out using up too much powder room in the case?

One I have posted about is neck up the 223 to 6.8 and trim to the 6.8 SPC length of 1.686". It will get you within 10% of the 6.8 SPC but carry the same amount of rounds. Easy to form and a more efficient round with shorter barrels. The 85 grain TSX would be sweet at 2,800, 100's at 2650 and 115's at 2400
I called it the 6.8 CQC I think. I'll have to check. The only issue it seems would be to file down the inside ribs of plastic mags to accomodate the fatter neck. You only have to do that once. Same headspace, Same taper just a tad shorter length case and bigger bullet.

Thanks boom stick. can you expand necks in one pass, trim, chamfer, load and go.

interesting article on winipekia on the 6/223. Looks like that gets a lot of use in Africa??? and black hills loads ammo.

That is the idea. Simplicity. Two stage necking up might be best or fire forming the neck, trim and load. One of the great aspects is lots of new bullets that are light and designed for this OAL and velocity envelope.
Maybe expand to .243" first then to .277"
The 6.8 bullets will be a bit better performer with a 20" over the 6mm barrel. I would think this could be good in 18" barrels.
The 6mm has advantages too obviously but better designed for cases with the shoulder moved back on the 223 case.
The 6.8-223 1.686" would be a nice cart without having OAL issues and moving the shoulder out to 300 yards and the thought was a better CQC round than the regular 223 but the 6mm would be better out past that. Past 300 yards you want a different rig IMHO longer barrel and all.

I had a 7 TCU in a Contender once upon a time.

It was easy to load for and very accurate.

I would think in a 20" barrel it would be ossible to get 2500fps with a 120gr bullet.

You could just get a 6.8 SPC, or the new 30 Remington AR, or what ever thay call it.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
You could just get a 6.8 SPC, or the new 30 Remington AR, or what ever thay call it.

Yeah but this is the Wildcat forum

Then the 7 TCU would be a good choice. Cases are in abundance and it is easy to load for.

critical issues for me is military case that I can fire once and leave in the grass.
It also has to be easy to load for. Every one has different shooting styles and when I get to shoot I tend to shoot by shooting the first few shots off a bench to check zero then the rest of the shooting is from all kinds of positions, moving etc and I'll run through 100+ rounds pretty quick. That said I need a cartridge that I don't have to spend a lot of time loading and the cases are gone into the weeds and grass.

Well this seems to fit that criteria pretty well. And getting 100 grain bullets to your desired velocity in a shorter barrel seems great.
Like I said, neck up, trim and load. No firefirming shoulders or fireforming out the taper or any taper feeding issues. The SPC bullets do not have the long ogive issues to fit in the neck with the OAL limits and the SPC bullets will open up at lower velocities. If you lose some brass, no biggie. Easy to form more.

Boomy

What about 6.5???? Any reason not to play 6.5?

Michael

Same problem as the 6 mm
Ogive too long. That is why the Grendel is so so short.
The SPC bullets are what make this idea work.
A 6.5 BR would be cool

here is the pic I did of what it would look like.
223, 6.8-223 1.686" and the 6.8 SPC
I think the case length will almost be about right just by necking up.


Here is a link to the original thread
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6521043/m/5311091421

Boomy

OK, but I have lot's and lot's of 6.5 bullets! I don't have any 6.8 or 6mm anythings. I guess I am out, I don't need to start any other bullet collections!

Michael

That is about perfect! The short ogive on the 6.8 is brilliant. Now to find some to do an upper in that cal. and get dies.

Thanks boomstick!

Glad you like!
Might want to neck up sone 223 brass and load up some dummies to play with for exact dimensions and getting that magazine to stack right. Should be fun!
Michael, the 6.5 Grendel is good to go. Kinda small for you isn't it

Boomy

Yeah, you are right, must be the 577 or when Sam slapped me yesterday, have not got my head on straight??? I would be bored before I got the rifle in hand.

Back to reality!

Hey, Sam is going to make me a quick set of dies for the 458 Super Short!!!!!! I can get started before getting the Hornady Dies in!

Yippie

ELS
For the reamer dimensions maybe just copy the same throat dimensions from the SPC.
Would be interesting to see if anyone wants to join now and pitch in for dies and reamers. I think it would be hard not to love this cart for simplicity, power increase and efficiency.

If you have a 223 rifle that swaps the barrel easy you will pretty much have 2 guns in one with a barrel swap. You will only be out the cost of the barrel and dies ect.

ANY caliber from 17 to 30 cal will work well in the 223 case or 222RM case and ALL have been done at one time or another.

ALL the calibers have at least one bullet that will work well for hunting game upt to deer/antelope size and maybe a little larger depending on just how well you can shoot and keeping the ranges within energy limits of the cartridge.

I've played with or now have rifles/pistols in 17, 20, 22, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm and 30 cals using the 221, 222, 223 and 222RM cases...not to mention the BR, 300 Savage and the larger cases...

I haven't played with the new 6.8(277) yet tho', never saw the need to split the 6.5/7mm any finer, but for the military and their forcing things into nice little pigeon holes the 6.8 wouldn't have happened...although it WAS a wildcat early on called the 270 Ingram that was just a 223 necked to .277 cal.

Wasn't there a 14 cal also...14 Walker????...something like that.

Any of those would just be a barrel swap for tha AR...

Luck...and FUN.

Yes the 270 Ingram came out before the SPC and was designed for handgun use right? Now with the SPC bullets it makes sense to shorten the neck to get the right OAL with the SPC bullets.

I have been thinking about the same issue. One promising option is a 25-223. Using 87 to 100 grain bullets. One guy on another forum is making barrels that are a simple neck up and 2 thousands trim. The dies are available for $70.

I am like you in wanting to use the cheap military brass and not worry about finding it. This round would make a nice varminter/predator and deer round.

You might want to stay away from the TCU cases (6-6.5-7) as they have 40 degree shoulders and don"t feed well in bolt actions less alone in a AR. Hodgodon shows 6x45 with 100gr Hor sp over 2500fps with 2.34" oal

quote:

Originally posted by Fat_Albert:
You might want to stay away from the TCU cases (6-6.5-7) as they have 40 degree shoulders and don"t feed well in bolt actions less alone in a AR. Hodgodon shows 6x45 with 100gr Hor sp over 2500fps with 2.34" oal

Bingo!

I'd say neck up to 25 cal, and have kinda a poor mans 257 Kimber, on a budget.