Has any one made a a 38-55 (.380) or .375 on the full length 3.25" 30-30 basic Bertram brass? A single shot 9.3x74r is out of my range but i have a couple of 38-55 single shots.... I was thinking of converting one if it is feasable....

That would be pretty interesting...

A 4" long cigarillo

i have no idea about ballistics but it would go plunk when you dropped it in the chamber....

quote:

Originally posted by eskimo36:
Has any one made a a 38-55 (.380) or .375 on the full length 3.25" 30-30 basic Bertram brass? A single shot 9.3x74r is out of my range but i have a couple of 38-55 single shots.... I was thinking of converting one if it is feasable....

I haven't tried that particular one, but I have a very beautiful Ruger No. 1 which uses the full-length 8x57-R case opened to .375". It is a very nice field rifle, and with the Ruger extractor/ejector works fine with either the rimmed cases for which it was built, or with the FL rimless 8x57 cases opened up similarly.

I prefer it with 235 gr. Speers for deer, or 270 gr. Hornadys for really big deer (like elk or moose).

If you do the calculations, you will find that a .375-40 is very doable on a .30-30 case. The shortened factory version is called the .375 Winchester. Leaving it the full 3.25" length is equally workable, but one would have to be careful which action was used. For instance, in the Martini or a rolling block it might be too long to work...or at least to work easily.
It should work with no glitches on either a Ruger or a Winchester Hi-Wall/Browning '85.
You can do the same with 30-30, .32-40, or.38-55 brass blown out with a slight taper to hold .375"bullets. There has been another thread here within the past few days on that very subject. (thread on the ".40-30").

I doubt you would get greatly improved ballistics out of the longer case, but you certainly could get "somewhat improved" ballistics at considerably lower pressures, I'd think.

I got some basic 30-30 brass (bertthun 3-1/4) and was thinking about a wildcat .375. If I remember corectly, at full length it has about same case capacity as a .375 H&H. Might be a good single shot caliber!

quote:

Originally posted by IOWADON:
I got some basic 30-30 brass (bertthun 3-1/4) and was thinking about a wildcat .375. If I remember corectly, at full length it has about same case capacity as a .375 H&H. Might be a good single shot caliber!

It might work fine, but I'd be very cautious about working loads up for it. The case web may not be nearly as beefy as that of a .375 H7H Mag, and I suspect the wall thickness may be .003" or so thinner than H&H brass. If needed, I could run down to the shop and measure some H&H wall thicknesses at various points in the brass...I know .30-30 basic is somewhere around .010" at the neck end. On the other hand, many of the non-magnum rimless cases for bolt actions run .013"-.014" at the neck, and I wouldn't be surprised if H&H mags were that thick or even thicker.

(That may not sound like much, but it means the .30-30 Basic may be right around 25% thinner than the H&H.)

My thought process was to turn the rim off of a 38-55 reamer and ream the chamber to 3.25. I would then use 38-55 dies to reload using a 38-55 or 375 win sizer die with the top cut off to size the web area. Any flaws in that? I thought I would start with a 38-55 H&R Target Model that i have before i looked at more expensive rifles...

No flaws in that idea pop to mind immediately. In fact, I think that would be rather neat. Might want to lay the full length brass up against the side of the barrel before deciding how deep to run the chamber. (Don't want to risk having the barrel too thin right at the end of the chamber and start of the major "dip" in the outside contour.)

Mark the outside of the barrel with a felt tip pen at that point, then measure the barrel's outside diameter there with a mic or calipers. Then subtract the outside diameter of the neck of the loaded round from the barrel diameter figure to see what thickness of barrel steel you would have left after re-chambering....

Probably no sweat, but its a lot like carpentry, i.e., it's better to measure first, then cut, not vice-versa.

For two years I have been shooting the 2.925" long original specs Winchester 38-90-217. The germans just necked it down .012" to creat the 9,3x74R. I just neck it back up. My barrel is a Krieger 375, .367x.375 bore and groove.

It would be a really nice smokeless cartridge in a single shot.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I have a 28" .380 barrel and a 24" .375 barrel so i could go either way. The lack of jacketed .379 or .380 bullets leads me to think that the 375 Winchester barrel is where to start.

I wonder what ballistics would be in a 28-30" tube with that round. I was looking for .284 basic brass when I saw the .30-30 basic. On a single shot like the Ruger or the NEF a 30" barrel wouldn't make for too long a gun. In .375" I guess ballistics would be about like the 9.3X74R? 3500 FPE...would this be about right?

I can think of quite a few reasons why there isn't very many 3.25 or longer cases in ANY caliber or why very few rifles were buit and not so many to be found today.

This doesn't mean your idea isn't a very good idea or it can't be done. In this day and age of CNC equipment there isn't much that can stop you except money.

The 45-120 case would be a very good starting point. You can have ANY reamer made for about $150 and dies for about $100-150, and ingenuity can cut those costs. Plenty of not too costly cases running around if you pick the right one. Case cost and availability are the two most encounted problems I've run into when it comes to my working with potential wildcats.

There are many rimmed cases available that could be used. The 405 Basic also comes to mind and would be a good one to use and not too pricey. There are some rimmless ones that would fill the bill also.

Using 120g H20 case capacity as a rough starting point and a 30" barrel, you could get a 375 cal 270 gr bullet up around 2800-2900 fs at 50 KCUP easy enough, you're basically talking about a Lapua Magnum case capacity.

The only thing I can see about using a 38-55 reground reamer is having a section of straight cut chamber equal to the length of the difference between the 38-55 and "38-120", something like 1.20" and/or maybe a step in the chamber at the end of the original chamber, and cutting the sizing dies like you suggest would leave you a sized secion at the top of the longer case without any taper...whether this would cause any problems would depend on the pressures you develope and might not be a problem at all. I don't claim to be machinist or a gunsmith but it seems there would be something of a "Murphy about to happen" glitch doing it the way you suggest. I think just having a reamer made would save the possibility of problems, and jury rigging can sometimes end up costing more that any savings.

If I were doing something along these lines I think I would go with the 405 or 45 basic case necked down to 375 in your case of a long 0.380" barrel, if you really wanted a SS and had a good action. You would have a strong case, lots of capacity, plenty of different weight bullets to chose from, therefore lots of potential.

I thought about scoring a 38-55 NEF barrel taking it out as far as I could get length wise, then decided a plain jane 405 Win would be better, then decided to do a 416 cal on the 405 or 45 basic case but didn't want to pay the cost of a rebore and finally decided to take my NEF BC out to 45-120. After doing the cost analysis...in recoil, components, energy/velocity results, actual need vs play need and so forth...and taking a look in my gun rack, plus having no want, need or money to go to other continents to hunt...decided the NEF BC 45-70 would do nicely for anything all the other large bores wouldn't do better and just blew it all off...maybe take it out just a smidgeon to 45-90...just in case. Then I got all haired up to do something with a SMLE action and ended up with a 458 WM...down loaded to 45 KCUP of course...go figure.

But it's exceedingly nice to think about all those "strange and wonderful" wildcats still waiting to be built.

Luck on your "project".

The same thought occurred to me, but I decided a 9.3x72R using Norma brass was simpler and close enough.

I think this conversion has occured to a lot of people, many times in the past many years.

Now that Hornady has the 9.3x74R brass and ammo available, maybe it will make a new start.

If I wasn't so cheap and could find a cheap, long 0.366" barrel, I would do a stub barrel for one of my NEF SB2 frames...or maybe an Encore barrel.

I'd like to once again toss in here my support for your original concept....a modertately powered .38 on .30-30 basic brass.

There is no way I would support the idea of loading that case to the same performance as a 9.3x74R. As we all should pretty much know by now, the weak link in any rifle/case combo is the brass. The .30-30 basic brass simply is not dimensioned to be as strong as a .375 H&H Flanged, or a 9.3x74R. It would be what it is...a longer .38-55.

By using slower burning powders, pressures could still be held to .38-55 levels, while getting somewhat more velocity because of the longer burn time and the more total powder energy released over that longer burn time. In other words, it would be a .38-55 with more energy under the curve of a "burn" oscilliscope tracing. That translates to longer push on the bullet and more energy imparted to the bullet, but it still doesn't make it safely and practically capable of full blown "magnum" performance.

It could make it a really delightful woods gun, though. I like your idea. You could easily make your own sizing die using the same reamer you cut the chamber with. As you would be loading a single shot at a time, you don't have to worry about getting enough neck tension to hold bullets in place during recoil. With a break action, you can also have the full length of the barrel as leverage in extracting a fired case.

Together, they mean you can slightly reduce the diameter of the neck area of the chamber, thus eliminating the need to re-size the neck area at all after firing, and still have a good, reliably working gun.

With a 60%+ powder capacity and a 28-30" tube,velocity could far surpass the .38-55 within the same pressures. I wonder if the .30-30 basic brass is like the other basic stuff with a good thick web? Where could a guy go to find a cutaway?

Ask Rich aka idahosharpshooter about his 38-90
basicly the precursor to the 9,3x74r it is a 375 on a 3" case same casehead as the 9,3x74