Is there a cartridge using the 45/70 necked down to 375? I thought this in a lever gun would be one hell of a black bear rifle.
Ballistic tables and all specs if available please.
Mike

The 38-56 WCF or the 38-56 WCF improved is what you are after I think but I like the 348 case better.

Michael, I used to own a TC Encore in .375 JDJ, a necked down .444. There should be quite a bit of date on the JDJ out there. You'd of course get more steam out of the .45-70 case. Could also neck it to 9,3 ...

Someone probably has done one...it is a fairly straight forward neckdown design...but the 348 cased version has more capacity and might be a better way to go.

You can always do a 375/450 M or 375 x 2" belted mag and get away from that HUGE rim...and the 374 JDJ/375 Express/444M cased versions which are even better depending on which levergun.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
The 38-56 WCF or the 38-56 WCF improved is what you are after I think but I like the 348 case better.

The 38-56 Improved looks pretty bad azz to me. Ken Howell has this cartridge pictured in his Custom Cartridges book.

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
Is there a cartridge using the 45/70 necked down to 375? I thought this in a lever gun would be one hell of a black bear rifle.
Ballistic tables and all specs if available please.
Mike

Is this what you're thinking about?

There are no actual cartridges like these that I know of.



Or because it's a lever gun, something like this.

I have the reamer and have done two so far. Both on Martini [Large frame] actions. Work nice and hit hard.
Aloha, Mark

Mich dont you think that would be hell on bears.


Thank you,
Mike

Probably would work just fine on just about any large game...but I would rather have the 45 cal for the really big stuff...

Your design Mick is about as close to a 38-56 Improved as you could get without being one.

Nothing wrong with either design.

I don't like the large rims so I rechambered my Marlin to 458 American. Just run the reamer in and leave the 45-70 rim recess alone. Works great. Could have used a 450 Marlin reamer but I have a BLR 450 Marlin also. Much smoother feeding now. I would do the same with a 375 barrel...maybe.

Luck

Retreever, like Foobar, I like the heavier 45 caliber. I don’t feel comfortable shooting at animals that have big teeth and claws with anything less than a 45 caliber. Partially when they can kill and eat me if I screw up. But your idea looks interesting and probably would work great on black bears.

I think a 40-65 but in .410" and not .400" would be a better compromise of BC and diameter.

Amazing I was going to post about this very case, the only difference being I used a 375/284 Win sizing die. Was looking for a all round project for a spare Ruger #3. Lynn

You know what would be fun is a 375 WSSM rimmed using 348 Win brass.
The 375 WSSM has been done so the reamer should be out there.
Figure 45-70 velocities with bullets up to 350 grains but one hellova BC!
Load out bullets to the max 2.6"
Can someone with the right software see what this could do fps wise with 275 grain bullets at say 38k PSI?
Thanks

Hey Retreever, I had a little time this morning to take your cartridge with 22-degree shoulder and kick it around in QL.

I dropped the P-Max down to 28,000 psi because I assume you’ll be using it in a Marlin rifle. The bullet is a 220-gr. Hornady and the powder is IMR 3031. 3031 only because it’s listed in the Hornady manual for the 38-55 and I use it in a couple of 45-70s I own. I’m sure there would be better powders for this cartridge.

I've been wanting to do a 375 JDJ for many years, but just haven't gotten around to it. Almost did a barrel for my Marlin, but while I was thinking about how, I did the game with the WSSM, WSM, 284 and RCM cases to keep away from rims and get the velocity up by increasing the case volume.

They ALL worked but each case had it's problem areas. I finally settled on the RCM or 284 cases as the easiest to convert. Basically just a neck up. The RCM case has already been taken up to 35 cal and chambered in a Marlin.

Basically on ANY of the larger diameter case you have to drop the pressure a bit and add more powder because of the larger case volume to keep the pressures within Marlin limits. It was a toss between the 284 and RMC case.

If I had a Marlin with the "V" barrel threads I would go with the RMC case and with the square threads I woud go with the 284 case.

But to get the most performance in the Marlin you need to have the action worked on to use a longer COAL. I have fiddled my Marlin to handle 2.65" COAL and you can have a leversmith get it to work with 2.70" cases. The extra length helps in the case volume area.

There are many ways to get a 375 cal levergun, the problem is with the case OD and getting into a thin barrel wall when reaming out to a large case OD. Basically, to be safe with square threads, you need to cut the frame threads larger then do the same with the barrel threads...a set of reamers is available at Mason or PT&G. Even the 50 Alaskan's pressure is dropped.

Lots of information on wildcats for Marlins on many forums.

Luck

What sort of action are you going to use?

Jim

I was thinking of a Marlin or a Browning BLR.

Mike

The 375-348 Ackley Imp or the 375 Alaskan is a great calibre. I built one on a Siamese mauser action. I considered the the 416-348 Imp but decided on the 375.I thought the 300 gr 375 would be ample bullet weight and the 375 would have a flatter trajectory. Also the rather short ogive on most 375 bullets suits the Siamese mauser actions COL of approx 3inches. So far I have had very happy with 270 gr loads.I'm getting velocities within 100fps of the 375 H&H. That is a potent little package !With a low powered scope this is an ideal short little rifle for hunting in timber for elk moose bears and hogs yet has an effective range of 250 + yds. Certainly deserves consideration.

To do a Marlin the right way will be nothing but the price of the new barrel or rebore...and you will be limited to Marlin pressures. Plenty good enough for most big game and real easy to do.

But to do a BLR, which would be my choice(Different case tho') might be a bit more costly...plus you better start out with the take down model...

I have an aluminum framed 450 BLR "solid" I wanted to add a 50 cal barrel to and so far I haven't been able to find a gunsmith who will touch it...EVEN BROWNING. Some will do the steel framed versions but that is still iffy due to the way the barrel is basically "welded" to the frame, and none of the gunsmiths I talked to would guarantee the frame wouldn't be tweaked during the removal process.

The only way to do the solid framed rifle is to rebore/rechamber through the receiver...I wanted to do a 50 cal BLR using a WSM case, but so far I haven't been able to put the combination of reborer/BLR together.

With the takedown model you can have the barrel rebored/rechambered easy enough...BUT...you still have the problem of the magazines...that huge rimmed case just won't work without extensive work to the BLR magazines...IF AT ALL...

I've NEVER seen a large rimmed case used in either the BLR or the BAR...only standard and belted mag cases, so you're back to the Marlin unless you forget about that *&$%#@((* 45-70 case and go with one of the more MODERN cases.

If you can't live without a 375-45/70 then go with the Marlin...it shouldn't cost much more than 4-700 bucks for a new barrel, chamber, machine work to fit the barrel and modify for 2.60-70" COAL...or ~$300 to have a rebore to an older 35 Rem barrel or if you're REAL LUCKY finding a 375 WIN and ruin the antique value by just rechambering...

Lots of ways to get there...some good, some not so. At first glance it would seem like a simple very easy conversion, but when you start working the problem, you can see WHY there are very few of these conversions...there are just simpler and better solutions to getting a nice 375 cal "something" cased cartridge for a levergun, including just buying a 348 Win and having it taken out to 375/348..or 375 "Alaskan"...and it probably would be much cheaper plus already having the action long enough to handle 2.90" COALs.

OR NOT...it's your choice and your baby...just DOIT.

Luck