What is the 323 Hollis? What is the parent case?

Thanks

KB

OK, I answered my own question by doing a search on this forum.

Quote from 323:
"It was a creation of this man Ed Hollis of Ed's Gun Clinic, 108 South 10th St, Boise, Id.
All it is a 308 Norma mag necked up to 323. I have chonographed loads with a couple of chronographs. loaded with 79.0 grs H-4831 and a 200gr part. I was getting no shit 3300 F.P.S. at first we thought it was fluke so my dad got his friends Chronograph and same velocity. According to P.O Ackley this is one of the most efficient cartridges designed. shoots excellent."

Further research shows that CH-4D lists the dies, and I think the chamber could be cut without having to buy the specific reamer.

KB

Perhaps this 323 Hollis case could be made from .338 Win Mag brass?

The 323 Hollis is ballistically the same as the 8mm/338 or 8mm PMM (poor mans magnum).The 8mm /338 would be a better choice as good 338 can be readily had where 308 Norma brass is getting pretty pricey.

OK. I couldn't stand it any longer. Today I made up some dummy rounds using 308 Norma brass and 220 gr Hornady 8mm bullets. Awsome is the word that comes to mind.

My first impression, just looking at it, is that this is a cartridge that should have existed. It looks well balanced, not too long, not too short, not too fat or lean, and the neck looks almost exactly .323 long, and the shoulder looks right too. It looks like what all the 300 magnums want to be when they grow up.

Most certainly, equally important is that I just had to try feeding them through my Ruger, which is now chambered in 300 WM. Slick is just right, but yet too simple a word. The bullet seated to the crimp groove makes the overall length just right to fit into the magazine, with very little extra room, but enough.

I compared this cartridge to some 8x68 brass, and see that it would probably have just a little more capacity, but probably easily be equal.

One could argue that the 308 Norma brass is harder to find, but I don't think so. You could probably buy a truck load of it if you wanted from Midway. 8x68, while available, is more scarce, and only from RWS.

I checked around, and couldn't find a reamer especially made for using the 338 case, but I could find a reamer for the 323 Hollis - several sources including a once-used reamer - and Dies too, from Redding.

I'm going to think about this some more, but it already feels like I'm hooked.

This is the last one - really.

KB

Dear KB:

Please keep me informed as to your 8mm mag./323 Hollis work. I may build a 8mm-338 Win. Mag. myself later this year.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Nils Kvale who made the 358 Norma and the 308 Norma, made also an 8mm PMM (Poors Mans Magnum) it had an rebated rim on the shortened 300 H&H.

I would like to have an 8 mm. 308 NM some day as im an Norma Magnum nut already.

I second Yale's request. Please keep us updated with your progress and findings. I have become a big 8mm fan and am in the early stages of building an 8x68S.

I like the sounds of the Hollis cartridge but the deal breaker for me is that it's belted - . I wonder if there's a non-belted parent case that could serve as an alternative.

quote:

Originally posted by pinotguy:
I second Yale's request. Please keep us updated with your progress and findings. I have become a big 8mm fan and am in the early stages of building an 8x68S.

I like the sounds of the Hollis cartridge but the deal breaker for me is that it's belted - . I wonder if there's a non-belted parent case that could serve as an alternative.

Well I have the reamer for the 8 X.404 X 2.5" and a rifle to boot. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Well I have the reamer for the 8 X.404 X 2.5" and a rifle to boot. roger

bartsche,

Wow, that sounds pretty cool. I'd be interested in hearing more about that wildcat. Any specifics?

I've been wondering about using 30 Newton brass necked up to 8mm - kind of a 32 Newton.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by pinotguy:
I second Yale's request. Please keep us updated with your progress and findings. I have become a big 8mm fan and am in the early stages of building an 8x68S.

I like the sounds of the Hollis cartridge but the deal breaker for me is that it's belted - . I wonder if there's a non-belted parent case that could serve as an alternative.

Well I have the reamer for the 8 X.404 X 2.5" and a rifle to boot. roger

in other words an 8mm howell

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Well I have the reamer for the 8 X.404 X 2.5" and a rifle to boot. roger

in other words an 8mm howell

Could be but I doubt it. I made this one around 1994. Originally it was a 8mm X .425 WR X 2.5" but the available brass was to soft so I opened the bolt face to accept the .404 case. Had there been an ultra mag at the time I would probably have used that brass.

What wildcats have you built, boom stick? roger

im working on it...

i was not criticizing...i like the "8mm bartsche!" although i preffer the 358 version but that is the 358 yukon on the rum brass.

its all for fun.

My, oh my... the 323 Hollis !!! Back in the very early 1970's here in Southern Alberta there was a chap who owned just such a rifle .. It had been put together in the late 1960's in Wyoming and was originally an 8mm x 06. It was based on the left handed Savage action and stocked in French walnut with a Douglas barrel. The rifle was fairly heavy so (I believe) Eric had it redone to 323 Hollis ... He was selling it with ammo, dies, bullets, a K-3 Weaver with a post ... and wanted the high price of $300 Canadian. I was going to University then .. and certainly did not have $300 ... But left handed guns were so scarce and it was so pretty .. I went to the bank and told the assistant manager that I was going into the outside world now and needed to buy clothes .. About $300 worth and that I would pay him back at $100 a month .. He took one look at what I was wearing at the time and didn't for a second doubt that I needed new duds .. He signed the paper work and I have now owned that rifle for about 35 years .. I love it dearly !! It has shot assorted varmints like bull elk, tapirs, kudu, leopards, moose, griz, etc. etc. I take it on all of my hunting trips (where I can bring my own rifle) .. and I intend to use it for the rest of my life ... and be buried along with it way off in the future .. For years I used the Norma magnum brass but for the last 20 years or so I just use 338 Winchester Magnum brass. I am in no way a range guy .. so long ago I started using 200 grain Nosler partitions with a bunch of 4350 powder ... keeps it simple .. I have since bought and sold many fine left handed rifles .. but mostly they are just memories .. When I am back in Namibia in late July that is the rifle that I will have. Whenver I look it at, I remember the big horn ram I shot long ago .. how I nearly blew it with some problems on aiming .. that big lion in the Transvaal at midnight ... the 280 m shot I took at a crouching leopard in Namibia ... memories ... did I mention that I love that rifle ?

I have one it started out as a 8mm-06. Well had it rechambered tothe 323 hollis after I read P.O Ackley book. I will continue later have to go.

The 8mm (.321"-.323") bore size is an excellent one, and one that has gotten short shrift in the English-speaking world. But a number of excellent cartridges have been designed in that caliber niche ever since the Schuetzen days - the .32/40, the .32 Win. Special, the various 8mm's, both standard and magnum.......

On to the story. Like I siad mine started off as a 8mm-06. After reading P.O Ackley book I had it rechambered to a 323 Hollis. My load is 79.0grs of H-4831 with a CCI 250 primer and 308 Norma Mag brass and a 200gr Partition. I buy all the brass I can when I find it. My friend has the other verison the 8mm-338 or the 8mm PMM and he can't get the velocities I'm getting but still it is one heck of a round to. But I have always been partial to the 308 Norma mag. I highly recommend this round with a 200gr part.

Dear 323:

What velocities do you get with the 200 grain Partition, using your 323 Hollis case?

Also, do you have any other load data for your 323 Hollis that you would be willing to share?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

All my load data is in the states I'm currently stuck out here in Iraq... the 2 powders I messed around with were H-4350 and H-4831. I have never been a big fan of IMR-4831. I initially was using 185 cor lokt bullets. Finally for the heck of it I bought some Nosler 2nd 200gr part. I started out at around 74.0gr and kept moving up and at 79.0gr I couldn't get anymore powder into the case and it still showed no signs of pressure. So I settled on 79.0gr of H-4831 cci 250 primer and 200gr part. when we chrono it we were getting an average 3250 F.P.S out of it my dad confirmed it with another chrono as well. I also have a 25 1/4 barrel on it as well. What makes it better I can use the same load with 180 Ballistic tips and it shoots damn near to the same point of aim. This is it what I use when I use it for deer hunting. But most of the time I use it for elk loaded up with 200gr part. When I first had it made up I did a lot of testing with it I have two pages of load data at my pops house. All I can say is it is a very efficent round isn't to hard on the shoulder either. I have owned this particular gun since I was 18 had it rechambered when I was 21 I'm 33 now I have had several people try to talk me out of it to no avail. I would not be afraid to take this to Alsaka and use it on big browns of course using 200gr part. But I alo have a 358 norma mag too. So it would be a hard decision.

Dear 323:

Thank you for the load data and background. 3250fps with the 200 grain Nosler is really impressive.

I support and applaud your sacrifice in serving for us in Iraq. If there is anything that I can do for you or your family, do not hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

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I like the sounds of the Hollis cartridge but the deal breaker for me is that it's belted - . I wonder if there's a non-belted parent case that could serve as an alternative.[/quote]
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The alternative---375 Ruger I have the thought of making one (Talk is cheap) and I have a name The 8mm wapiti.

8mmwapiti

I have two actions to choose from for the 323 Hollis. One Ruger and one FN. They both feed very slick with the belted dummy rounds. The 375 Ruger ammo just does not fees as well.

I would rather have slick feeding, regardless whether it has a blet or not. The 375 Ruger is just fat enough at the shoulder to maybe cause a problem. It's nice to have an action that works well with the chosen cartridge, with no modifications to the magazine or feedrails necessary.

The belt doesn't bother me at all.

KB