not "really" a wildcat, but I'm rebuilding / restoring an old Remington rolling block, converted to a bench gun in the early 60's... I'm not interested in keeping it 225 Winchester ( the barrel is nearly shot out, & "we" ( my builder & I ) feel the pressures are too high for the gun...

... so I'll be chambering it in a 32-40 of sorts... I'm installing an 8mm Shilen Match barrel ( 1 in 10 twist ), & plan on starting out with a 200 grain jacketed bullet, hoping to chamber & throat the rifle to accurately shoot 200 grain jacketed bullets, & 220 grain cast bullets .323, & .325 respectively...

anyone played, or any comments or suggestions ???

If accuracy is your #1 goal, and "fun" your #2 goal, and velocity relatively unimportant, then my suggestions would be:

1. .32-40
2. .33-40
3. .38-55

They have all proved themselves many times over for accuracy in schuetzen competition, shoot cast bullets of over 220 grains, and have very low operatring pressures appropriate for your chosen action. (BTW, if that is the rolling block featured in Precision Shooting about 30 years ago, I'm jealous already......)

If you have already bought the 8m/m barrel with a .323" groove diameter, then I would get a 'smith to chamber it with a .32-40 case (chamber) reamer and an 8m/m neck/throater. I'd make a cerrosafe casting of the ball seat and neck, then I'd have Paul Jones make me a bullet mould to HIS recommended dimensions.

Then I'd go suprise my buds at the range with how well it would shoot.

Well I highly doubt this rifle has that famous a pedigree but I'll post a couple pics from before the rifle got torn down...

the 8mm barrel is already being threaded to the action, & contored to match the 225 barrel so the beaver tail fore end fits... the finished length will likely be 3" - 4" longer than the 23.5" - 225 barrel we took off... it's not chambered or throated yet, as I'm waiting for a back ordered jacketed bullet to arrive to mock up a dummy for the chamber & throat... casting the chamber is a good idea for the bullet mold...

my builder is a buddy thats a retired tool & die guy, thats been building rifles for over 40 years... we are working pretty closely on this... I expect it'll turn out pretty decient when finished

my hands sweat abnormally, & I expect I'll want to shoot this rifle alot, so I'm still "shopping" for a metal finish thats more corossion resistant than standard blueing... I'm thinking I want to keep the metal dark, so I'm looking at black chrome over electroless nickle, or deep blue Diamond Kote... but I'm holding off on refinishing the wood, until the barrel is fitted ( in the white ), in case I decide that I could live with electroless nickle, or that French Grey finish that E.A. Brown offers... any other suggestions in metal finish ???

here are a few pics of the project before tear down...

BTW... I'll be rebuilding / restoring this rifle as well ( making my 1st 600-1200 yard rifle )... so I'm pulling this 15X Unertl off this one, & will replace it with a 20X or 24X Unertl...

so this is the scope that'll be going on the roller...

pics of the next project, & the donated Unertl for the roller...



so original question... anyone chamber an 8mm barrel in 32-40 before ???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magnum Wheel Man:
Well I highly doubt this rifle has that famous a pedigree but I'll post a couple pics from before the rifle got torn down...

the 8mm barrel is already being threaded to the action, & contored to match the 225 barrel so the beaver tail fore end fits... the finished length will likely be 3" - 4" longer than the 23.5" - 225 barrel we took off... it's not chambered or throated yet, as I'm waiting for a back ordered jacketed bullet to arrive to mock up a dummy for the chamber & throat... casting the chamber is a good idea for the bullet mold...

my builder is a buddy thats a retired tool & die guy, thats been building rifles for over 40 years... we are working pretty closely on this... I expect it'll turn out pretty decient when finished

my hands sweat abnormally, & I expect I'll want to shoot this rifle alot, so I'm still "shopping" for a metal finish thats more corossion resistant than standard blueing... I'm thinking I want to keep the metal dark, so I'm looking at black chrome over electroless nickle, or deep blue Diamond Kote... but I'm holding off on refinishing the wood, until the barrel is fitted ( in the white ), in case I decide that I could live with electroless nickle, or that French Grey finish that E.A. Brown offers... any other suggestions in metal finish ???

/QUOTE]


I think you and I would really enjoy some campfires together. Too bad it isn't possible. You seem to like/build the same kinds of guns I have fussed with over the last 60 years.

That wood is certainly worth the time it would take to do a little refinishing too...I hope that stays in your plans. Everyone has their own favorite finishes, but if you are not a highly experienced woodworker, I would suggest G-B Linspeed in preference over Tru-Oil. Does not tend to build the over-heavy "thick" appearance that is so easily the result of Tru-Oil and, I think, shows the "real" colours of the wood better.

For a metal finish, I would recommend a product from a guy I don't really enjoy doing business with...Robbie Barkman in Phoenix,AZ. His Robar finish is outstanding at surviving darned near anything, and his prices are reasonable. He is a busy guy, so try to nail him down with a fairly firm return date before you send him the gun.

With that nice high cheekpiece (in keeping with the sight to be used), I'd be careful about making the barrel too long or it may look unbalanced. But, of course, it's always easy to shorten it later if you end up wanting to, while the reverse sure isn't true.

You are right when you guessed that rifle is not the one shown in Precision Shooting. The one in PS had a number of modifications which left it looking more like an aluminum cane...probably the ugliest RB I've ever seen. But it did shoot groups in the .1s and .2s in registered matches, which is absolutely phenomenal for a RB action-based rifle. I still like yours better, though.

A good project. Can't wait to see the pics of the finished gun.

Best wishes,

AC

so... the the chamber needs a little tweaking in the neck area to fit the cartridge neck, after the 8mm bullets were stretched into the 32-40 case... so does that make it officially a wildcat ???

here is a dummy round of the finished cartridge... ( I'll likely not seat the bullet in the case this far on final loaded cartridges )

8 X 40, sitting next to a 30-30 for comparision...



that bullet is a 180 grain Nosler balistic tip boat tail... the boat tail is a sharper angle ( shorter ) than some of the others I looked at, so I can better seat the bullet out further, should I need more powder capacity... I'll also be setting up a 200-220 grain spitzer cast bullet for the cartridge...

probably start out with 4227, & fairly soft loadings,( I've been researching this for a while, & have between 20 & 30 different receipes to extrapilate load data from ) since it'll be shot out of my Remington Rolling Block... working up to an accuracy loading for 300 yards... once I'm comfortable with my load for the Nosler, it'll be a good rifle cleaning & start on the cast bullet loads...I'll probably do a flat based non gas checked, cast bullet likely .325 diameter or so ??? just in case I wanted to shoot at any competitions with the single shot rifle association... but right now it's just for my enjoyment...

I'll be ordering my loading dies, this next week & my builder buddy will be be making me a taper crimp die, & we'll need to look at adding an 8mm expander plug to the dies, especially for the cast bullets... I think the jacketed boat tails will slide in just fine with standard 32-40 dies, but I don't want to roll crimp the slippery Nosler bullet, & will need to make sure the bullet seating surface can do the balistic tip with out damage...

this project has been coming along way faster than I hoped, the rifle has already been test fired with a conventional jacketed 32-40 bullet... at my buddys shop... I still don't have my loading presses set up yet, as this was supposed to be a winter project...

Well...I got lucky, as my builder had an 8mm neck reamer from an 8mm X '06 wildcat... so now my cartridge dummy easily slips in & out...

I got the fore end inletted this last weekend, so my builder could add the screw hole to the barrel, to attach it( we're using a 1/4" fine thread for a little more beef on this heavy weight... & the Unertl scope is going on this week...

I ordered a 2 die set of Lee 32-40 dies, & we plan on some tweaking of the expander plug, ( might be able to use the stock one for the jacketed boat tails, but will make a new expander that goes to .325 for the cast bullets ) & likely the bullet seater will need to be tweaked ( to fit the pointed Nosler balistic tips )... we'll also be adjusting the dies to taper crimp only for both bullet types

seems this project is progressing much faster than planned... I'll likely have a pet load for the jacketed bullets for this rifle within the next 2 months, & will likely wait to finish the metal until 1st snow... which is about 3 months ahead of schedule... & will decide for sure on cast bullets over the winter...

as far as stock finish... I'm still undecided... I may use multiple coats of some type of uethane, gym seal or similar, that will allow me to wet sand between many coats... there are some inclusions in the burl, that I want to fill with finish, & sand smooth over the top... I'm looking for that mile deep look to the final finish...

I know there are lots of other finishes out there that I haven't tried, which will probably do a splendid job on your wood. Just one more comment on the Linspeed.

The reason I like it is that I can use 8-10 very thin coats of it and end up with a stock that looks like it is made of solid polished marble, either satin or gloss.

When I tried that several times with other finishes (can you say "Tru-Oil"?), I invariably ended up with something that looked like it had been applied with a cheap paint-brush....well maybe not quite, but still looking darker, more "muddy" in some spots, and generally just not near as nice and clear...the "articifiality" of it showed plainly, while the Linspeed just looked as it it had grown there as part of a natural finish to the wood.

Good luck, whatever you choose. Still will love to see pics of your finished work. That's gonna be a classic rifle for sure.

Thanks for the tips... sounds like just what I'm looking for... that walnut wood is so dark, I want as clear a finish as possible... even just wet, it's very dark...

the fore end is getting bedded this week, as my builder lined up the scope bases in the mill before punching the holes to insure they are centered in the bore... the fore end screw hole was added during the same process... there was lots of fill needed in the underside of the fore arm, as the previous builder had used a 2 screw base for the fore arm ( probably because of the attached bi-pod )... we used a 1/4" fine thread screw, which has plenty of meat into the barrel, as we left the barrel so thick, so we are glass bedding the fore arm for even consistant pressure...

next will be to refit & glass bed the butt stock, & clean up some previous boogers from poor inletting along the upper tang

I'm doing some minor shaping to contour the lines of the fore arm to match the reciever, & we'll also contour the bottom of the trigger gaurd, to better match the underside of the fore arm, for a professional looking fit...

we have already filed some "shape" into the loop of the trigger gaurd... there was some battering & thin spots along the edge, from previous use / abuse & since the trigger gaurd is so wide, we were able to even out the edge by narrowing the gaurd loop just slightly for a "new again" appearance...

I'm also doing some steel spacer blocks, & a custom steel butt plate, there will be 2 - 1/4" thick spacers made to conform to the shape of the butt, once they are shaped, then a 1/2" thick piece of steel will be contoured to the shape of the stock recoil pad...the spacer blocks will be attached to the wood, & several threaded holes added to the outer block, allowing me to position the the butt plate up or down, as different shooting positions may require... the added weight of the butt plate & spacers should help balance the extra heavy barrel...

in keeping with the 60's theme, the spacer blocks & butt plate then go to a custom painter buddy of mine & will be painted in candy colors.. one spacer block in red, the outer in white, with the butt plate in blue, with a small red & white bullseye target painted in center of the butt plate, with lots of clear coat over the top... a splash of color for the butt of that dark walnut

BTW... I gleened this from another website, from an author that seemed to know what he was talking about... might have to give this a try ???

"I have a personal favorite that combines the traditional hand rubbed linseed oil finish with the weather proof qualities of the polymer finishes and looks like you spent your whole life working on the stock. It consists of a mixture of 1/3rd Linseed Oil, 1/3rd Turpentine (acting as a solvent), and 1/3rd Beeswax, gently melted together over something other than an open flame (an old-time radiator used to work well). When it is well melted, it should be stirred and left to congeal... It turns into a paste that makes a great (military style) finish that looks like it took a million years to apply. Repairs easily, even in the field. Got this one from an old gent at Perry back in the Mid-50s who looked like he had personally used it on his issued Trapdoor Springfield... I went home and tried it, and have been using it every since."

for a whole write up on the finishes... look here...

link to finishes

I believe I read that formula somewhere about 40 years or so ago. Never did try it. Never felt sure it wouldn't separate as it cooled, and then flake off.

Still, it might work just fine. But, if I was gonna try it, I'd try it first with each batch on some piece of walnut other than one on any of my rifles! I'm not sure all turpentines and all bees waxes are the same, either individually or in compounded form.

Another thing the old-timers reportedly used to do a lot of, particularly with lower grades of walnut (more open-pored grades) was "boning" their stocks. They rubbed the stock with a round hard bone to "close" and polish the grain. Used fairly heavy pressure, and went lengthwise with the grain rather than across it. I never tried that either, but have seen a couple of Springfield '03s with wood supposedly polished that way which looked pretty nice.

Think I would stick with more modern methods and materials myself....just in case we have actually learned something in all these years of trying out "science".

right now I'm tempted to paint it with air brushed clear that my painter will be using on the butt plate... it is crystal clear & 2 part with a hardener ( I'm not exactly sure what he uses )... only question would be adhesion to the wood ???

so the main machine work is done to the rifle, the stock is stripped, but I had to mount up everything for a "mid project pic"

still tons of finish work to do...

btw... I got the 1st test loads loaded, & I'm going to use some Speer 170 grain semi spitzer 8mm bullets for barrel break in & to test powder propertys before loading the Nosler 180 grain spitzer boat tails ( left in the pic )

BTW #2... ALBERTA... I'm already looking at a possible next project... my local toy store has had sitting around for a year or so, a Winchester Low Wall, with no finish on the metal, plain wood ( but a schnabel fore end ), a short barrel, 1/2 octogon, 1/2 round, currently chambered in 44 mag... which is unsafe in normal loads in the low wall... the builder must have been shooting cowboy loads in it... if it's still there by Christmas, I might just have to rescue that one from a life of 44 mag abuse, as a new project, & a Christmas present for me... more on that later if I get it...

mid projct pic of the rifle...



1st expiriements at loads for the rifle...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Wheel Man:
BTW #2... ALBERTA... I'm already looking at a possible next project... my local toy store has had sitting around for a year or so, a Winchester Low Wall, with no finish on the metal, plain wood ( but a schnabel fore end ), a short barrel, 1/2 octogon, 1/2 round, currently chambered in 44 mag... which is unsafe in normal loads in the low wall... the builder must have been shooting cowboy loads in it... if it's still there by Christmas, I might just have to rescue that one from a life of 44 mag abuse, as a new project, & a Christmas present for me... more on that later if I get it...

Hi - Haven't got much by way of immediate thoughts on the Low Wall. Will think on it a bit and post again, if any light bulbs go on upstairs.

Too bad the previous owner didn't chamber it to .44-40 ! You could still do that by setting the barrel back, if you wanted to save that barrel, though it would turn out even shorter, of course.

A moderately careful lathe operator could even do that and make all the sights, stampings, etc. come back to their original positions.

Beautiful gun.

The 8mm version is a great modernization of this cart.