quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
Tanz,

I understand that Hornady/Ruger produced daughter cartridges based upon the full-length .375 Ruger cartridge from very small caliber up through a minimum .458 caliber. This was done to eliminate any potential of a Jamison situation happening with any future factory releases…

So if you’d like a rifle chambered for a Hornady/Ruger specification .338 Ruger (full-length case) cartridge I’d suggest contacting Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge or Dave Manson at Manson Precision Reamers for the appropriate Finish Chamber Reamer and Gauges.

Personally, I’d generate a reamer specification using the .375 Ruger case with the shoulder-to-case-mouth specification drawn from the .338 RCM and I’d specify a .175” parallel-sided freebore to appropriately accommodate monometal bullets. The cartridge would look similar to Paul’s mockups but no idea if they’d be the same – but here’s mine:

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Like this only with longer parralel sided freebore.

CTF,

With the 0.175" noted in the earlier post I was looking primarily at the 3.4" magazine length.

What is the P-S freebore that you specified? And is it designed to accommodate a 3.6" magazine?

That cartridge above looks pretty optimal to me.

I suppose another 0.02" of neck could be justified. It wouldn't hurt for holding some of the long bullets that are coming out to fulfill wishes of the long-range-elk crowd. The .514BC of the 225gn TTSX, the .550 of the 225gn CopperRaptor, and the .575 of the 265grain TTSX/LRX are all serious hunting bullets that would work well in Africa. (We already use the 225gn TTSX in a 338WM at 2838fps. No extra velocity is really needed for Africa, but I hear that it is desirable in the Rockies.)

I wonder about the best platform for such a great round.

If Ruger does build one, they would probably fit it to a 3.4" magazine. That would mean a .8" maximum nose length. The Barnes 225gn would work, but the CEB CuRpt would need to be seated with the seal-tite band inside the case mouth.

Tikka is lightweight and similarly priced to the Rugers. I believe that it, too, uses a 3.4" magazine.

The Winchesters want an extra $300 and should be able to accomodate a 3.6" magazine. Maybe that would be $300 well-spent, if the rifle weight could be kept down close to the Tikka level.

Well, I had a nice.long and ardous post all done up and it disappeared into cyber space somewhere. Almost as bad as a lost sock after doin laundry.
I may want to load long round nose 300 gr bullets or single load 300 gr Bergers or Sierra's. Since RIP proved p.s. free bore doesn't hurt accuracy and it can help with long blunt bullets. I may as well put it in the reamer when I have it made. Plus, it gives more versatility when loading Barnes monos.

Tanz,

The M70 Extreme Weather SS is listed at 7lb 4oz weight in 338 WinMag and that is with a 26" barrel.

Easiest would be to re-chamber one of these and replace the mag box plus the bolt stop with the 375 H&H versions. Don't recollect if anything else is required...but that'd give about 1.0" nose projection capability.

Thanks. The stock looks good, too.

With a MRP at $1270, I expect that a retailer would probably offer at $1100, so that paper and taxes would mean $1200.

It might just need a 1/4" spacer to bring it to 14", or perhaps for the US, a person could just wear a thicker jacket.

Definitely a piece to keep in mind, and probably better chance of accuracy than a 338WM in XPR for about $600 out the door.

What's an XPR?

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
What's an XPR?

The XPR is Winchester's new entry-level rifle, to sell at $450-$600. Plastic stock, newly designed action with fitted lug like a Tikka, and a barrel nut for head-spacing assembly.

Oh, Yuk!! We better buy good actions while they are still being made. . Hopefully the XTP will be a goodun like the Savage Edge/Axis. Not a dud like the Remington 770. Not that I plan on buying one. But for the people that do.

First reports are that it is accurate and a good entry-level rifle. I might think of getting one just to have a 338WM in the States.

As Capo pointed out above, the Win Model 70 is available in a Controlled-Feed Stainless version that comes with a 3.6" magazine [well]. That would seem about perfect for anyone wanting long bullets in a 338/375Ruger. For a classic rifle on which to build a 'keeper' wildcat, it would be a candidate.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

As Capo pointed out above, the Win Model 70 is available in a Controlled-Feed Stainless version that comes with a 3.6" magazine. That would seem about perfect for anyone wanting long bullets in a 338/375Ruger. For a classic rifle on which to build a 'keeper' wildcat, it would be a candidate.

Correction here - it comes with the magazine blocked for 3.4"... You'll need to remove the block and modify the bolt stop or just purchase the 3.6" magazine and bolt stop for the 375 H&H. Seems like one additional item but I just don't recollect right now. Then you're good to go...

Yup. Lost another post into the bowels of cyber space. The 1st one I do will be on a Ruger action but will have the reamer done with the long throat . That way if I go with a CZ or Model 70 I'm still gtg. And I can single load long bullet loads in the Ruger.
.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Yup. Lost another post into the bowels of cyber space. The 1st one I do will be on a Ruger action but will have the reamer done with the long throat . That way if I go with a CZ or Model 70 I'm still gtg. And I can single load long bullet loads in the Ruger.
.

What are you calling "long throat"? A half calibre, a whole calibre, or more? It is always possible to add freebore to am existing chamber and to lengthen the throat with a slower angle like 1 degree or even half a degree, but a person cannot undo that without getting a new barrel and making a new reamer.

From watching others design cartridges and reading a little about freebore from an earlier generation I would be inclined to recommend a one-half calibre freebore (leade) and then add a throat at a slow angle, maybe one degree. For that matter, throats tend to lengthen a tad after hundreds of shots.

For a 338", a .17" freebore should be plenty. It will handle any bullet that is out there.

There is another constraint to consider. The whole point about long bullets is to provide for long range accuracy by fighting winddrift. If the bullet is too long, then a faster twist barrel will be needed. Most 338's use a 10" twist from the factory. If you want to use a bullet longer than about 1.9" then you probably need to think about a 1 in 8" twist and single-feeding the cartridges. As bullets get to be that long they also get to be heavy and they may benefit from more powder than a 338/375Ruger. One starts to think of the Lapua, the 338/378 and even bigger. If one reverses this logic and comes back to the practical considerations of the 375Ruger capacity, then more modest bullet lengths (<1.9") return to the picture.

You might check out the CEB and GSC bullets. GSC has a .338" bullet that is 2.15" long, 285 grains, and with a BC of .842 under 2900fps. You can get a BC of 1.0 with that bullet if you can push it over 2900fps. (A Lapua shouldn't try that.) However, GSC recommends a 7.2" twist for that bullet at ranges shorter than 300 yards, and a minimum of 9" twist for ranges over 600 yards where plenty of time is available for a bullet to 'go to sleep' and to allow a 'nose-up' attack angle to relax.

Sounds like winning plan.

PS: on long throats, people have reported a deterioration in accuracy as throats went over 2 calibre.

At least a caliber length parralel sided freebore.
RIP has proven p.s. freebore of over caliber.length is not detrimental to accuracy .
When I shot lots of 300 gr Barnes Original RNSP .049" jacket 338 bullets from my Stainless Rugers. I had to load them to 3.2"c.o.l. . Because of a standard throat. I want to be able to load similar bullets to at least 3.4" Col. Weatherby always had lots of freebore and I've seen some that were plenty accurate. The 1 in 10" twist will stabilize the 300 gr SMK. The bullet I will probably use for most of my long range ( 1,000 yard) shooting. And with it I will be able to play around with monos using the rifle as a single shot. For long range shooting. But, I don't expect to have any troubles with any bullet loaded to 3.4" oal.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
At least a caliber length parralel sided freebore.
RIP has proven p.s. freebore of over caliber.length is not detrimental to accuracy .
When I shot lots of 300 gr Barnes Original RNSP .049" jacket 338 bullets from my Stainless Rugers. I had to load them to 3.2"c.o.l. . Because of a standard throat. I want to be able to load similar bullets to at least 3.4" Col. Weatherby always had lots of freebore and I've seen some that were plenty accurate. The 1 in 10" twist will stabilize the 300 gr SMK. The bullet I will probably use for most of my long range ( 1,000 yard) shooting. And with it I will be able to play around with monos using the rifle as a single shot. For long range shooting. But, I don't expect to have any troubles with any bullet loaded to 3.4" oal.

I think that the technology has changed for bullets. The new long range bullets have long slender nose projections that do not engage the lands but ride them. For example, CEB has a 225grain .338 with a .550BC and a nose projection of .96". They also have a Lazer series with a .338" 225gn with a .630BC and a 1.024" nose projection. These bullets are not expected to be seated deep, yet they are not supposed to engage even normal lands. both are stable in 10" twists.

As a rule of thumb, the longer the freebore is, the greater the risk of losing accuracy. That must be keep in mind with the whole purpose of a longrange bullet: enhanced, fine-tuned accuracy. I think that you may be putting your 500-1000yard potential at risk with a .4" freebore. Maybe not. But the freebore is not needed with these new bullets. You might want to consult with some experienced long-range enthusiasts. For myself, 400 yards is long-range. And I take a little flak for that sometimes on the "BigBore" forum because 400yards is extremely far for flat Africa.

. Yup. I did. I read a lot about of guys saying that 100 more fps won't matter. Well. I've never been up close to a bear where I wished for less speed. And lots of times I wished for more. That's why I built a 9.3×64 when I already had a perfectly good 9.3×62 . My primary goal is to push a 300 gr Woodliegh RNSP at least 2600 fps from.a 24" barrel without being grossly over pressure. Pretty sure I can do it as I was getting 2500 fps with the Barnes Original RNSP 300gr from the 338 Win Mag. And I had to.load them short. .
Most of the rifles I dream up end up working like a million bucks. So I'm sure this one will. I've been dragging my feet waiting for the 375 Ruger to take a better.hold. now with Savage and Mossberg making rifles in the round. I expect other brass to become available for it. Not that I'm not happy with Hornady. I just don't want a rifle I can't get brass for. Has Brian Lintz confirmed those BC #s . Over. .6 g1 is a real high bc for a 225 gr 338 bullet. Wonder what velocity they set that at or if they list the g7 bc for it.
I'll prolly do lots of playing around with the 300 gr SMK. That's all that the long range shooting is. Just entertainment. Unless I get to be a dead eye dick at 1k . Then I might pop a bou at that range. 500 yards isn't that far away. I've done that with a 375 I built with a 3×20 fixed Leupold. I don't think.I'll ever set foot on African soil. So I don't have to worry about that.

quote:

When I shot lots of 300 gr Barnes Original RNSP .049" jacket 338 bullets from my Stainless Rugers. I had to load them to 3.2"c.o.l. . Because of a standard throat. I want to be able to load similar bullets to at least 3.4" Col.

The 338WinMag SAAMI has "no" freebore, only a 2-degree throat that begins as soon as cutting moves from the case mouth to the .338" bore of the barrel. That adjustment at the end of the case mouth is about 0.02", so I guess that one could say that a standard 338WM has a .02" freebore. If you added your .2" COL wishes you would get a .22" freebore. I would expect that Woodleighs are already tapered to allow a nose projection of .84", which would bring a COL of 3.34", the SAAMI spec. You would only need a 0.06" freebore for 3.4".

The Woodleigh BC is rated a bit high for a roundnose. I shot a few Woodleighs in a 338WM Tikka and I don't remember any special seating problems. (I probably have an unopened box of 50 back in Calif.) The bullets are prettier than the old 300gnBarnes that I had in Africa 30 years ago.

PS: I wouldn't want to shoot a thin-thin-jacket SMK at a bear. It might work spectacularly. Or not.

Plus I've got a 375 H+H mag box for my Ruger and I plan on getting a 375 H+H follower. The bolt stop can be moved back and the longer box and follower installed. . Then I can stick.with Rugers reciever. With all the freebore, I'll be in tall cotton.
The 300 gr SMK will be used for targets. Not bear. This cart is not what I term as a bear round. But I'm confident it will work well if needed to.
This is for ruminate hunting. But if I find a nice bear while it is with me it will be up to the task with the right bullet.

Do you have a Hawkeye? How does that work? I might get me a long box, too.

I got the box a while ago. I was going to turn my Win Mag into a 450 Watts. Then I got to thinking about the 416 Rem Mag. My other favorite cart and couldn't decide. So I left it in the drawer . A good friend is a very good rifle builder back east and I would like to send the whole thing back to him and have him build it. At least 2 members on here have done the conversion on Rugers. Both to 375 HandH. So it can be done totally successfully.

Most of my Rugers are pre Hawkeye. My 6.5 Creedmoor is a Hawkeye tho.

If you want long COL, energy, and long range, and you like the 416 Rem, then you owe it to yourself to handload the 416Rigby to 416 Weatherby levels. It really does it all, and should handle all the bears as well as 'bou.

Oh, I'm sure it would. However I've got spoiled shooting my 6.5 Creedmoor a lot. Just nestle in and hold with light hand pressure with the shooting hand and squeeze the toe bag with my other. . I was looking at the Harrel's muzzle brake and not only are they VERY AFFORDABLE! But from the reports they work very good at reducing recoil. So I'm thinking about putting one on the 338. Also. 338 bullets are about half the price of 416 bullets. And lastly. I don't live in thick bear country anymore. And I really want to build a 400 Whelan. I've still got my 458 . But it doesn't get much use these days.

Tanzan,
Your absolutely right, the .338 could be a bit of a rush in the short rows with a mad buff looking you in the eye..therefore I will shoot my buff with no less than a 9.3x62 unless my hand gets better in which case that will justify my building myself another 404 or take my present 416 Rem off the for sale list..I do like the .416 Rem I have for sale as its on a Enfield action, its a perfect buffalo gun. well of course it is, I built it for myself!

The nice thing about my long throated .338 Win is I can shoot std. .338 Win ammo in it and it shoots them great. I always have the option of the long throat especially with something on the order of a long for caliber 300 gr. Accubond type bullet, that just won't work well in a std. .338..This applies to many calibers out there with the trend to long heavy spritzer bullets with plastic tips etc..Its a good option to have.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The nice thing about my long throated .338 Win is I can shoot std. .338 Win ammo in it and it shoots them great. I always have the option of the long throat especially with something on the order of a long for caliber 300 gr. Accubond type bullet, that just won't work well in a std. .338..This applies to many calibers out there with the trend to long heavy spritzer bullets with plastic tips etc..Its a good option to have.

With the new long long bullets comning out, I would think in terms of a 8"-9" twist besides a longish throat.

In the meantime, I always have to argue with myself about the advisability of spending considerable amounts of money on trying to improve the 338WinMag.The 338 on a 375Ruger would make a natural mountail gun, but so is the 338WM, already.

Gents

I have a rifle up and running in this calibre

Only early days, but very impressed with results so far

I didn't want to spend too much, so I brought a new 338 WinMag in a Weatherby Vangaurd S2 for a throw away price, took it straight to my gunsmith and had him run the 338/375 Ruger (Campfire) reamer in, he did the work in only a couple of hours we headspaced off the 375 Ruger gauge

I picked up the reamer cheap from PTG

I have both 338 RCM dies and 375 Ruger Dies, I have used the 338 RCM dies, carefully set, to neck all the brass down and will use the 375 Ruger dies to resize the case

In my hast my first loads were 84 grains of H4350 with 200g Hornady soft points

This load was way too hot even though it wasn't compressed and still room in the case

The result was a sticky bolt but an impressive 3200 fps from a 24 inch barrel. I only fired 4 shots and stopped as I anticipated the loads were close to 70K PSI, the plunger/extractor mark on the case head was clearly visable

I now believe that H4350 is most likely too fast for the 200g projectile and the maximum is closer to 80/81gr

Today I tried 185g TTSX with H4350 and 200g Hornadys with H4831sc

The results were good, bolt not sticky and easily extracted, NO noticeable signs of pressure to case or primer

results, I wasn't looking for accuaracy just trying to establish my MIN MAX load data

185g ttsx
H4350
24inch barrel

79g. 3089
80g. 3115
81g. 3142
82g. 3172
Loads NOT compressed No pressure


200g Hornady sp
H4831sc
24inch barrel

83g. 2959
84g. 3009
85g. 3046
86g. 3089
Loads not compressed

S&F --
another round I love.. awesome that you have it up and running ..

Tanzan 416
I like your thinking..I built one and I love the gun and it shoots great and does all the things I expected..The problem is I simply shoot std 338 ammo both handloads and factory in it...I guess the only upside is, I know the extra power is there!! but then I never felt undergunned with a .338 to start with..Oh well the only difference in men and boys is the cost of mens toys may be a better way to justify my lovely long throated .338 Win.

S+F:
That's awesome. So they have the reamer and guages in their files so I can just call and order them. !!
Hey, this idea may well become a reality for me. Might have it by next spring and use it on a moose next fall.

this should be interesting. I would question it a little, since it does not seem to be quite as fast as a standard 338 RUM factory round.

The Campfire, (as well as the BOS [little longer neck], reamer at Warner-Tool in New Hampshire) is not designed to match the RUM but to match the 340 Weatherby, and do that in a 2.6" case-length.

Kudos to Short and Fat for a very balanced and nuanced cartridge choice for stalk and carry hunting in a reasonably light rifle.

Not really sposed to be as fast as a RUM ect. Hopefully it will be comparable to a 340Whby.
For my purposes at least.

I didn't see your reply notification in my email 416 T. I didn't mean to duplicate your post. But that's ok. Because it is the goal imo.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
this should be interesting. I would question it a little, since it does not seem to be quite as fast as a standard 338 RUM factory round.

Hey Rich,

Since the 375 ruger is nearly the size of a 375 weatherby, a 33 ruger would be nearly the size of a 340.. in a standard length action...

or a perfect ballistics match of a 338win, at much lower pressure,

3.35 oal vs 3.65 .. some of the most expensive 3 tenths of an inch in the gun world


Rich - you HATE the 375 ruger... why are you even discussing a wildcat based off it ?

I've always loved the 338 ...

because it shoots bigger bullets than the '300's.

But now and then I think that it would be nice to have a little more behind the bullet than the WinMag, but keeping the rifle within a small footprint. That's when I start thinking about how nice a 338 Ruger would be. Short and Fat's rifle looks like a sweet little thing. Laminate or composite, put a medium action, thin barrel with a "338 Ruger" chamber on an all-weather stock, and you have one mean mountain rifle.

I totally agree. More thump and more versatility than the Win Mag in the same rifle with affordable common brass . Short+Fat; did you have to turn or ream the necks?

Gentlemen

Its a straight forward conversion absolutely NO other work needed, 375 Ruger body, 338 RCM shoulder and neck, Its all original Ruger Specifications for both cartridges as far as I can tell

NO turn neck

I like it because I have a power upgrade to Weatherby/RUM levels at substantially less than the cost of a NEW Remington 338 RUM or an original 340 Weatherby

Infact I don't know what you guys pay for a Weatherby Vangaurd Series 2 in the States, but I purchased mine for about 5/8th the price of a NEW Ruger, and in 338 Win Mag Vangaurds are lighter than a Ruger, infact even with gunsmith work I still had change to buy a Leupold VX2 to put on it

I suppose It helps the gunsmith wanted the reamer because he did the chamber job for a straight swap

This is by far the cheapest medium wildcat cartridge upgrade I have ever done

regards Joe aka S&F

Joe; I already have the rifle and a new Ruger barrel. Are you planning on trying any heavier bullets. ?
I would be Real interested what velocity it will get with the 300 gr Woodliegh. Or 275 gr Swift A Frame. . You have already surpassed my MAX, too hot loads with the 185 gr Barnes. By 200 fs.