What ever happened to the 338 on a 375 Ruger case?

Has anyone followed up?
It would seem like a natural.

See pics below from a piece of a previous thread on wildcats in general.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Lozano:
338-375 Ruger.

L - R
338 250 grain Swift A-Frame
375 Ruger case
338 250 grain Nosler partition






The design on the case was not extremely aggressive. I made the neck a bit longer than 'normal' to get a bit better grip on 250 grain bullets. It has more case taper than the parent case. I wanted to make sure it would extract even in quite hot conditions.



(Commercial Mauser action, Bartlein barrel)

Tanz,

I understand that Hornady/Ruger produced daughter cartridges based upon the full-length .375 Ruger cartridge from very small caliber up through a minimum .458 caliber. This was done to eliminate any potential of a Jamison situation happening with any future factory releases…

So if you’d like a rifle chambered for a Hornady/Ruger specification .338 Ruger (full-length case) cartridge I’d suggest contacting Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge or Dave Manson at Manson Precision Reamers for the appropriate Finish Chamber Reamer and Gauges.

Personally, I’d generate a reamer specification using the .375 Ruger case with the shoulder-to-case-mouth specification drawn from the .338 RCM and I’d specify a .175” parallel-sided freebore to appropriately accommodate monometal bullets. The cartridge would look similar to Paul’s mockups but no idea if they’d be the same – but here’s mine:

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Wondering if it's worth the trouble? What would the marginal gains over a .338 WM be?

quote:

Wondering if it's worth the trouble? What would the marginal gains over a .338 WM be?

Just imported it into QL... Here's what I get:
Cartridge - Overflow Case Capacity - Net Capacity w/250gr Nosler AccuBond
338 WinMag - 86.00 grs - 69.85 grs
330 Dakota - 94.00 grs - 76.93 grs
340 Weatherby - 100.00 grs - 84.00 grs
338/375 Ruger - 100.00 grs - 82.59 grs
338 RUM - 110.00 grs - 93.84 grs

So basically the benefit is 340 Weatherby performance in a standard action length case. And of course it can be downloaded to 338 WinMag performance if desired.

Thank you, Capo. It's good to see what QL suggests.

I do have a question, though. The 330 Dakota uses a .545" case head and is based on the 404 Jeffrey. It should have more capacity than a 338/375 Ruger, not less. The 404 has recently inspired a 26 Nosler, and that, too has been suggested for a 338/26 Nosler with a rebated casehead, .534" rim and .550" casehead body. On AmmoGuide, the Dakota gets 2.0 grains over the 340 and the 338/26Nosler gets 5.0 grains over the 340.

As you stated, the advantage of any of these, 338/375Euger or 330 Dakota or 338/26 Nosler, would be to equal or excel 340Weatherby ballistics in a standard action.

The 'dream' would be to see this available in an $800 rifle. At the moment on Gunbroker there is a nickel finish 340 Weatherby for $899 buy-now and a new 340 Weatherby sporter for $1160. If CZ ever chambered the 338 Lapua or 338 Norma Magnum in their field grade rifle, they would also bring a heavy hitter for North America down into the common hunting rifle price range. In terms of bang for buck, the 338WinMag is still at the top of the pile in common rifles, from Rem, Win, Ruger, Tikka, Savago, and Howa. For that matter, Remington could just offer their 338RUM in a Classic and standard price like their 300RUM. I would prefer the action of the Winchester or Ruger, bu push feed is not a deal breaker in North America, nor for plains game sans buffalo. I suppose the availability of the 300RUM has led to the popularity of the 338 Edge (338/300RUM). Until rifle makes get the 338 slot above the WinMag sorted out, the 375 Ruger will stand on its own as a long and short range elk rifle.

quote:

I do have a question, though. The 330 Dakota uses a .545" case head and is based on the 404 Jeffrey. It should have more capacity than a 338/375 Ruger, not less.

I definitely understand and that’s an issue with working with unknowns. I was in a hurry and didn’t pay close attention to the case volume issue. The Dakota case weight and volume would have been set in the program based upon actual spec’ing one or more cases. The 338/375 is an electronic guesstimate based upon necking down and adjusting the neck length of the .375 Ruger case. QL indicates a 99.00 grs volume for the case in .375 caliber so obviously didn’t account for the reduction in volume with the reduction in caliber. A software issue; may have to reinstall software and then reinstall the version update. I don’t have .338 RCM dies or I’d resize a couple of cases and spec them out.

quote:

The 404 has recently inspired a 26 Nosler, and that, too has been suggested for a 338/26 Nosler with a rebated casehead, .534" rim and .550" casehead body. On AmmoGuide, the Dakota gets 2.0 grains over the 340 and the 338/26Nosler gets 5.0 grains over the 340.

The 26 Nosler is a shortened RUM case rather than a shortened 404 Jeffery case; even though the RUM case was predicated on the 404 Jeffery case with a few design changes they’re sufficiently different to cause them to not be easily interchanged. Anyway, the 26 Nosler case just screams to be upsized for larger calibers…

Not sure this helps – but it definitely indicates differences in capture of data.



QuickDESIGN uses the actual case design – basically the maximum case dimensions allowed both internally and externally – a programming algorithm computes the estimated case overflow capacity. Change any of these dimensions and the case capacity also changes.

QuickLOAD will use a case design from QD or with the case design functions (and an internal programming algorithm) within QL to produce the estimated case overflow capacity. Throw in the differences in actual case capacity measurements between new unfired, fired then FLR, and fired then neck resized only and one quickly sees where software programming cannot be absolute. The user can change the case overflow capacity based upon actual measurement of the data, as well as save/create multiple cartridges based upon different manufacturer of brass.

AmmoGuide Interactive uses a programming algorithm to estimate the overflow case capacity of a cartridge; I’m not sure if this can be changed by the cartridge designer/imputer.

Perhaps something of interest…
Excerpted from one of our 12.7x68 Magnum / 49-10 threads:

All brass used was Lapua manufacture with Lapua markings. The Hydraulic formed brass would be very similar shape wise to new unfired commercial brass as extracted from the box.
Case capacity:
Trimmed Case Length: Fire Forming Com: 131.45grs water
Untrimmed Case Length: Hydraulic Forming Die & FLR U/F Com: 123.458grs water
Untrimmed Case Length: Hydraulic Forming Die & FLR O/F Mil: 108.026grs water
Legend:
Com = Commercial (.338 Lapua Magnum headstamp)
Mil = Military (97 headstamp)
FLR = Full Length Resize
U/F = Unfired
O/F = Once Fired

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Wondering if it's worth the trouble? What would the marginal gains over a .338 WM be?

tons .. as it is the case capacity of a 340 weatherby .. this is a case i have kicked around several times, and it almost became the 340 empire .. might should...

you can load to 338win and be low pressure, brass last forever, or to 340 weatherby, in a standard action.

everyone forgets the 375 ruger matches the 375 weatherby, and leaves the HH in the dust

heh, you listed a 338/26 nosler.. run that to .458/26.. should be abour 112gr .. as the "unique" 26 nosler is aweful darn close to the 416/458/470 accrel cases.. AWEFUL darn close

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
heh, you listed a 338/26 nosler.. run that to .458/26.. should be abour 112gr .. as the "unique" 26 nosler is aweful darn close to the 416/458/470 accrel cases.. AWEFUL darn close

Agreed. Principally shoulder angle and neck length...

As a basement gunplumber it behoves me to point out that every time that you start to develop a wildcat and have to have headspace gauges made you start to screw yourself.
Hence all of the cats and things made on the standard 06, 308, and the standard belted magnum cases that utilize the standard heads space gauges.

When you make the neck diameter smaller, like going from a 30-06 to a 6.5-06 the neck gets shorter. In the old 06 case this is alright, but in something like the 375 Ruger your neck becomes too short, and you need to make new head space gauges. With the 358/300WSM, or a 366/300WSM, things just naturally workout if you have the magazine length for the bullet that you want to use.

I just don't think that this one is worth while, but ain't it great to be able to play with it on the great computer with software!

True, but then one just talks to one of the Dave's to tweak a single set of gauges for more than one wildcat cartridge and the world is all rosy again.

But otherwise, yep a lot of fun playing the 'what if' cartridges in the software... Saves big bucks and helps cull the 'not so goods' from the 'oh yeahs...

JIm,

What do you mean in the mock-up at the beginning of the thread ".338 Ruger SAAMI"?

Is the cartridge already listed by SAAMI?
If so, wouldn't someone already have headspace gauges and even a reamer?

One would think that Ruger would allow a factory order. It would be nice to have an inexpensive alternative to a RUM or Edge. Though I must say that the prices for the 340 Weatherby on Gunbroker were lower than I expected.

Tanz,

No SAAMI hasn't approved the cartridge because it hasn't been submitted and only SAAMI members can submit cartridges for approval.

The drawing is in SAAMI format; I also have a chamber specifications in SAAMI format. The alternative would have been a CIP format for each. Just slightly different presentation of the data is all and reamer manufacturers can use either format to generate the chamber drawing specifications that they use internally.

Played with it, got about 75 to 100 FPS improvement?? if you can call it that..I believe if you used a long action or magazine and could seat bullet out .375 deep in the case it would easily duplicate the 340 WBY..

I have seen much in print that the 340 Wby is head and shoulders beyond the .338Win. and recoils much more than the 338 Win..This is really confusing in that the 340 only best the 338 with specific loads and then only by a 150 FPS unless you pushing the string to make the article more interesting...I have a long throated .338 that will do the exact same thing, but I mostly shoot std. 338 handloads in it simply because the additional 150 FPS makes so little difference in trajectory and killing power..

I noticed the same thing some years ago with the 375 Chatfield Taylor (375/338) With it I could duplicate the 375 H&H pretty easily..Quite a case that .338 Win is..

When one builds a new and wonderful wildcat, one tends to go overboard to make them work by loading them really hot, and comparing them to the original cartridge they intended to improve and that's been going on for ions!

I would consider a 338/375Ruger conversion, but only if relatively inexpensive. In other words, renting a reamer to cut a 338/375Ruger chamber and getting the whole package done for under $200 might be enticing. At the moment, though, I don't have a 338 in the USA, where games like this are easier to play.

Hornady's .338 bullet seater with the center-slide/collet ought to work for the wildcat as well as the 338WM, yes?
And a 338 RCM sizer could probably partially resize, yes?

But I will probably wait until thinking about a stateside 338, sometime. And if my wife's 375 Ruger works out like it has started, I'm not sure that we would need a 338 stateside. Maybe we'd get another 375Ruger after hers makes the trip to Africa. We're moving pretty slow on all of this.

There is no flys on the 375 Ruger, its a great round for sure. It's a push between it the 338 Win. until you get to Buffalo and that's a maybe, I have seen some good work done on Buffalo and Bison with the .338.

Ray,

I'm always encouraged by your comments on the 338. Yes, the 338 can do a nice job on a buffalo. It is such a fun, easy recoiling cartridge.

But

There's always a 'but'.

things can go wrong in a buffalo hunt and I would hate to be in a position where I said, 'Why didn't I hit it with a 416 or 500.' My 338 buffalo days are probably over, by choice.

4-D has a floating pilot 30-375 Ruger available. Would probably be "easy" (well, relatively, haha) to chase it with a 338 neck reamer.

The 358 fans could also do the same thing.

30-375 Ruger

I notice that the reamer has a neck of about .253", rather short. It would still be rather short after cutting the neck back to .367" (for .338).

Is there are easy way to 'set back' the reamer, to make a case that is as if it were only going to be 2.5", then follow up with a neck reamer to 2.58" and .367" diameter, for a final neck-length around .34" instead of .26"?

I still have Phil's reamer here.
Ask JGS for a copy of 338 BOS, 338/375 RUGER dated 2/09.

Alan Warner

@416

So using the given drawing for the 30-375 and then shooting lines off using a .367 neck, I get a rim to neck base distance of 2.301. Keeping the OAL constant gives a neck length of .279.

338 Ruger?

Still pretty short. You could grind ~.300 off the bottom of a 338-378 die and start fiddling around with it? To check case length growth vs neck squeeze-down? The parent 375Ruger 35deg neck is tricky to find a "donor" die.

It has always amazed me that Ruger went with the .338 RCM and not a full length .338 Ruger based on the .375 Ruger case? WTH were they thinking?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
It has always amazed me that Ruger went with the .338 RCM and not a full length .338 Ruger based on the .375 Ruger case? WTH were they thinking?

Obviously, Ruger wanted to compete against the 338/30-06, which their 338RCM matches. They must have thought that bettering the 338WM in a standard length case and matching or surpassing the 340Weatherby wouldn't interest NorthAmericans.

quote:

They must have thought that bettering the 338WM in a standard length case and matching or surpassing the 340Weatherby wouldn't interest NorthAmericans.

I reckon that's about right but I wanted the full meal deal!

A question for you wildcat guru's. How do you think a 24 or 23" barrel would perform on a .375/.338 Ruger? Do you think it needs a full 26" pipe to get the performance to make it worthwhile? I am thinking light weight high country elk rifle here thus the shorter pipe...

Well, I'm definiting not a wildcat guru, but I have a lot of old experience loading for 270's with 22" tubes. The concept is quite comparable.

for a 338/375 Ruger, a 22-23" barrel should work great. for the band of powders that work best, the faster ones might be preferred in a 22" barrel. I wouldn't worry about 100fps, just get an accurate load. Reloader 17 might do wonders.

The most practical way to get a 338/375 would be to buy a 338 Ruger 77 Hawkeye African and simply rechamber it with a 375 ruger reamer with a 338 neck/guide. Lots of gunsmiths have done that and the African model is right up your alley my friend, but like my long throated .338 you really won't gain enough to make a hell of a lot of difference, about 100 to 150 FPS, and you might push it to 200 FPS in the winter in Idaho. I have never thought 200 FPS did much for anything, but its there if you want it..I find myself shooting standard max handloads in my long throated .338 win.

Ray,

I've got a .338 with an extra long mag box sitting in the safe. I think I might just punch out he throat and keep it simple. Good advice.

Have you shot any 300 gr bullets in the 338/375 Ruger yet? What twist barrel do u have? What velocity have you gotten with what load?

Anybody have one of these? I'm very interested in the round. Have an action, barrel and stock. Just waiting on inspiration and I think this round gives that inspiration!!

I've consider the 9.3x375 Ruger for severl years but so far I havn't made myself jump off in that trap!

Like the .338/375 or any wildcat, today there are so many calibers that duplicate about everything we can think of, its just money out the pocket, and lots of it.

I know in my heart that the 9.3x375 has nada to offer over the 9.3x64 and very little over a 9.3x62 long throated rifle, same for the 338/375. I built a 338/375 H&H some many years ago and got a whooping 164 FPS over the .338 Win an that was a hot load just to justify my endeavor, I herald it to all, then quitly slipped back into oblivion before the real truth came out!

quote:

I've consider the 9.3x375 Ruger for severl years but so far I havn't made myself jump off in that trap!

Yes, a trap. That would seem to be a silly wildcat, since it would only go down 1 calibre (.01") but would end up with a poorer bullet selection. I mean, by way of analogy, who ever wanted a 29-06, or even a 31-06?

The benefits of the 338/375 Ruger are fairly redily available brass and redily available bullets. People seem to be forgetting the scarcity of a couple years ago. I haven't. But I still want something special. I worked and worked to get a good consistent 300 gr load when I started with the 338 Win Mag. My goal was 2530 fps and I wasn't able to consistently get that. . That's why I went to 275 gr bullets. I could get 2640-2660 from them with 4831 and no over compression of powder.
I know that with the increase in powder capacity using the 375 Ruger brass that I will be able to get 2600 fps with a 300 gr bullet from a 24"" barrel. . That will work. !! With a long throat and a mag box length of 3.660" and a 28-30" barrel it will beat 2700 fps which will keep the 300 gr Berger VLD super sonic to 1 mile and to 1600 yards at my elevation at 40 below. Late moose season tempeture.

PTG is drawing up the reamer print now. I'm pretty sure I will be able to do my reloading, at least to get started with the 338 RCM dies. . When I'm getting ready for the long range rifle to be built . I will have the eloading die reamer made
I'm pretty jazzed about it myself. Even with the 24" barrel I will be able to get the 250 gr Lapua Scenar going fast enough to shoot at 1,000 yards. . And, I'll be able to pick up brass at Sportsman's, Three Bears, Cabela's, Great Northern ect.ect. .

IMO it is a natural upgrade for anyone that has a standard length magnum action that wants the easiest velocity increase. . . Yes the 330 Dakota is a great round but I've never found Dakota brass in Anchorage or Fairbanks.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

I've consider the 9.3x375 Ruger for severl years but so far I havn't made myself jump off in that trap!

Yes, a trap. That would seem to be a silly wildcat, since it would only go down 1 calibre (.01") but would end up with a poorer bullet selection. I mean, by way of analogy, who ever wanted a 29-06, or even a 31-06?

RIP?

quote:

Originally posted by Sean Russell:

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

I've consider the 9.3x375 Ruger for severl years but so far I havn't made myself jump off in that trap!

Yes, a trap. That would seem to be a silly wildcat, since it would only go down 1 calibre (.01") but would end up with a poorer bullet selection. I mean, by way of analogy, who ever wanted a 29-06, or even a 31-06?

RIP?

Ohh.

Cold trigger:

The 338/375 ruger is good. It is a typical calibre spread difference of 10% (.338 is about 90% of .375).

I'm not sure why someone interjected with the discussion on the .366/.375Ruger.

. Ya, try finding a 9.3 bullet with a bc of .65+ that is commonly available. Been there, done that. . Nada.
If I knew then what I know now, I would have kept a Stainless Model 70 338 Win Mag I had and had it reamed to 340 . .
But I've looked at this wildcat from every side I can without actually having the rifle built and in hand. And I can't find and problems with it.
If I find the neck it too short I can have a new reamer and headspace gauge made and have the barrel turned in a couple turns and rechambered. .

So are there any updates on the 338/375 Ruger?

Exactly what dimensions did you use for the shoulder, neck, and freebore?

How long did it take to get the reamer?

Have you thought of a name? Rick Bin called his 338 Campfire.

Not yet. A friend, Matt Roberts " Richardson and Roberts" told me someone from Hornady ordered one of their actions @SHOT to build a 338/375 Ruger on. For his personal use. Maybe he is hoping to spur Hornady into making the round and hopefully Ruger to come out with it in the Hawkeye. .

For myself. Life happened this winter and set me back a ways. My plan/ idea is to top mine with the 338RCM body, shoulder, neck
But with more than a caliber of parralel sided freebore. That way I don't have to worry about migrating bullets with a compressed load. A serious problem I had with the 338 Win Mag.