We're finally going to be able to use rifles for whitetail in Indiana.

Although the regulation is calling them "PCR" Pistol Cartridge Rifles. No specific cartridges are called out, only these specifications

(A) fire a bullet of three hundred fifty-seven thousandths (.357) of an inch diameter
or larger;
(B) have a minimum case length of one and sixteen-hundredths (1.16) inches; and
(C) have a maximum case length of one and six hundred twenty-five thousandths
(1.625) inches.

458 Socom works.

Thinking of shortening a 450 Marlin to 1.625", loading the bullet out long and seeing if it'll still run in a Marlin 1895. Like a 458WM in a Lott chamber.

Just shortened some 300 WSM brass to 1.625, oddly enough the inside diameter is .508. Figure that's enough "neck" tension to hold a Lehigh .510 hunting bullet?

Also interested in the .358 WSSM - wondering if anybody has got one up and running yet?

Any other suggestions?

35 wssm

in an ar15 it can be a tactical moose gun
you never know when moose will try to take over alaska


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6521043/m/111105126

Two of my wildcats fit the bill nicely; The 9(.357)X 41(1.625 actually)and the .375x41. I still have these reamers and go nogo gages. With jacketed bullets they exceed the energy level of the 44 mag. rifle. With 300gr gas checked bullets they equal the energy level of the 30-06. They are formed from 06 or .308 cases. Sounds like a job for a rebarreled Mod. 200 Stevens. roger

A 357 Automag or 44 Automag would allow you to use a donor action with a .473 bolt face.

You could use a 7mm BR Remington to make a stubby 358. Some years ago someone did a .35x39mm (the Russian special ops 9x39 isn't quite wide enough to make book in Indiana) that runs with the 35 Remington.

If you don't mind a rim a 357/44 B&D might even work through a leveraction if you watch your overall length. Likewise I recall SSK working up some similar rounds using 454 brass as the parent case.

There is always the .458 x 1.5 if you like big slugs.

If you must make an absolute effort how about shortening a 416 Rigby? A fella might put together an interesting rulebeater on a CZ without going bankrupt.

Keep coming back to the .358 or .375 WSSM or the 510 WSM as mentioned earlier.

Will be using in a bolt rifle...sounds like a good use for one of the WSM/WSSM's that are laying around for a bit of nothing.

look how cute that 35 wssm is...

the 35 has the versatility thing down...110 to 310 grains of bullets!

Thinking of ordering a reamer, unless you've done it already.

If Midway or anybody else had 25 WSSM brass in stock, it would be done already.

the 35 wssm has been done...check around with the gunsmiths to see who has one. good luck and most of all fun

Think I'll just order a reamer. Less headaches.

CH4D now lists a 357 SSM wonder if that's it???

that 357 should be it but be sure to throat for rifle bullets

My understanding of the new indiana law is that it must be a straight wall pistol case...bottle necked cases are not allowed.

shortgun

Nope, no restriction on case shape or parent cartridge.

what about also the 357/358 6.8 spc.
use it in an ar15.

Not interested in a gas gun, the local DNR seem to get a little excited when they see them.


The 358 WSSM is probably going to take a back seat right now, but will likely be built before the end of the winter - I'll have all next spring to play with it.

Here's what IS being built:

Through talks with Neil Shirley, Dave Manson and Dave Davidson - I've ordered reamers and dies for a shortened 500 Jeffrey to 1.625", necked for .510 projectiles, and throated for surplus bullet use if desired.

Neil is estimating case capacity between 82.5 and 87.3g of water. The Jamison brass is sitting here, waiting on dies and a reamer.

For all those with twist on the mind....I've got both a 1/10 twist Brux barrel here, a 1/14 Pac-Nor, and a Lawton 1/12 on the way too.

http://www.teppojutsu.com/



so a tad longer 500 phantom. .1" to be exact.

it would be cheaper to go with the phantom and load .1" longer.

the 308 sabot should give 30-06 performance in a pistol length cart

I tried to get Phantom brass for nearly 18 months, and the reamer is proprietary.

Not that the reamer couldn't be re(verse)-engineered, but I'd just as soon maximize the case capacity if I have to form my own brass anyway.

well there is something to be said for being the master of your own destiny and to be in control of the whole thing.

next you will have to do the 510 on down to the 308

I'd have been all over the Phantom if I could have got brass....can't even get the fellow to respond to my emails(not Marty, the fellow who is handling the brass).

With 500 Jeffrey Jamison brass being readily available right now, it was a pretty easy decision.

Fireball
A buddy of mine at the other reloading site advised me to check out this thread. Being a fellow Hoosier I am working on the "Ultimate Indiana deer rifle" now. It's already half finished and waiting on a new Pac-Nor barrel and the reamer. It is a 358 WSSM only with a 40 degree shoulder. Dave Manson is grinding the reamer and it will be finished in August and the barrel will be ready about September. I will have CH4D make up the dies since they have taken very good care of me in the past. If you pick up a little single shot like one of the H&R Handy rifles and forward the barrel I will be more than happy to ream it out for you when the reamer is finished. You can fire form some 25 WSSM brass in the chamber then just pick up a set of dies. Here is a picture of my actual rifle being made and a little info on the round. http://www.capehunts.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page47.html

If you've got a copy of Dave's reamer print, could I talk you into forwarding it my way??? I'm interested in how you throated it, and what you're calling the cartridge.

If you're interested in renting the reamer, I'd be glad to help offset the cost. I'd build the 358 for myself either on a Model 70 WSSM action or a Ruger #1.

If you haven't ordered the dies yet, ask Dave what he'd charge for another sets while he's at it.

My 500 BFG reamer on the 1.625" Jeffrey case should be here in August. Dies are on order from CH4D now.

Until then, I'm playing with the .458 Socom, and a .510 Socom reamer(Hornady dies already arrived) is on its way from Kiff as well.

fireball168@yahoo.com

Fireball,
I made some changes to the reamer print and will get a new, updated copy in the mail soon. It is throated for 200 grain Hornadys to be seated flush with the case neck base. I will loan you the reamer with your promise to return it in good conditon. After I pay the up front fee CH4D will charge 72 bucks for a standard set of FL dies. They carry my .408 Baumann and .34 Lite dies already. Where in Indiana are you?

the 458 SOCOM is also indy legal, ballistics as very simular to the 45/70. mine runs a 300 gr hornady at 2200 fps out of a 20" barrel, a real hammer to approx 200 yds.
RR

Reamer print is finished and I can send it too anyone who is interested. Dave Davidson from CH4D is making up the dies and they will be listed as "358 indy express". By the way, the water capacity of the un-fireformed case is 47 grains to the base of the neck. Rekin' it will do the trick.

Glad to hear you've got progress too.

Kiff just shipped my .510 Socom reamer yesterday. Still waiting on the shortened Jeffrey reamer from Manson.

Since they have made this new ruling, at least for me anyways, the 357 Maximum has been the most popular chambering, with the N.E.F. single shot being the most popular gun followed by the T/C Contender in 357 magnum, a simple rechambering is all that it needed to produce a gun with ample power for taking shots up to 150-200 yards. The ballistics performance nearly equals the 35 Remington with a much higher degree of accuracy. The picture below shows a 357 magnum round on either side of the 357 Maximums in between. Chambers are throated for either jacketed or hard cast bullets. If anyone is interested in this chambering, just let me know. Turnaround time on this rechambering option is 1-day....

D-A

I have the brass but cant find a gun to rechamber. As far as my research is showing the T/C is only in the Encore and N.E.F. never made a single in 357 mag.

There are a couple of NEF barrels on Ebay right now.

I don't find 357 Maximum terribly inspiring myself, but to each their own.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEF-NEW-ENGLAND-FIREARMS-HANDI-RIFL...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEF-H-R-New-England-Firearms-barrel...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Big Earl,

N.E.F. makes runs on the 357 magnum a couple times a year. I own two of them and have rechambered both of them to the 357 Maximum. On one of them, I cut the barrel back to 16 1/4", added a brake and scope to the gun and that one only sees a handload with Remingtons 180 gr. JHP bullets. This gun will keep 5-shots around an inch at 100 yards. In the second gun, I only shoot 200 gr. hard cast bullets since this is my "hog" gun. I've got a picture of the "short" N.E.F. if you'd like me to post it...

D-A

Good post and great timing. I am building a 357 using a BR case. 1.540 is the finished case. My thoughts are based on the 30 BR and my design 30BAS BR case. I took the BR case necked to 30 cal and moved the shoulder forward .125 to .175 for powder. What I have discovered is velocities are great while accuracy is mind blowing. In managed testing beside a standard 30 BR, the BAS BR would shoot inside the 10 ring when a twin built 30 BR would move into the 9 ring. Mant test and viewed by many shooters. The same design in .357 is being tested at this time. I will be a few months before the results are in. Good luck.
Bill

Well, I finally got the new cat loaded for. It holds 50 grains of BLC-(2) unfire formed and I will expect it to handle 52 grains after the 40 degree shoulder is blown out. That's Hornady's Max load for the .358 Win. so It should be a big buck stomper! Have some 200 grain Hawks on order that should go 2500 f.p.s and will get the barrel from pac-nor shortly. Mines the squat one in the middle!

If you're looking for a big bore option, why not the 500 S&W mag? It's a pistol case, 50 cal, capacity about 65gns H2O and 1.62"

For something more moderate, maybe a 1.62" version of the 357 Herett and put it in a Win94 or Marlin 336 action?
Or the 375 SuperMag? 1.6" 375Win case. You could probably shoot it in a 375 win M94 as is. Don't know how accuracy would be with the long chamber. It would better with a new barrel though. Maybe cut a long throat so you could seat bullets out far to use as much of the 2.55" cartridge length that the lever guns will handle.

The idea is the smallest pill with the fastes vel. This will be my backyard deer rifle and proably nothing else. It will take half a dozen deer a year and thats pretty much it. I did pick up a set of T/C dies in 357 Herret and already turned .100" off the base and they will work well for a future wildcat. I arlready have a .357 Mag. in a Marlin (my very first deer rifle I got in the late 1970's) so now I am just building for bolt and single shot actions. Thanks for the advice. Earl.

I've heard of guys doing wildcats on TC barrels by chopping off the barrel at the end of the lug and boreing it out to use as a mono-block.

Extra shotgun barrels for the NEF Handi-Rifles are pretty cheap. What would it take to chop one off, thread the chamber area and screw a new barrel in? You'd need a new ejector of the right size. Does NEF or Brownells sell them?

The 20 ga frame might be better for something with a little lower pressure like the 357 Herret x 1.6 ? Smaller frame, light and handy?

Well, I got my new wildcat up and running. Still have a few things to do to it but it did take meat in it's first season. Still in the white and I need to rub out the lumber but it will shoot into an inch with those 200 g. Hawks @2475 f.p.s. without pressure signs.

I have used a 6mm BR and 7mm BR alot, and you might check this out....

http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_all.asp?CaliberID=389

7mm BR bumped to 338 doing 180's at 2400-2500, but a 35 bore would do a little more, really putting the hurt on deer w/in 200 yds if not more. BTW, is that drop of blood by the trigger guard an exit? Did you shoot from a stand down into the right shoulder/chest? Good eating it looks like for you! Congrats.

Yep, thats the exit. Deer's laying a bit skewed so it looks off but the bullet went strait thru where the heart was (soup now) and didn't ruin an ounce of meat. Wish I could do that every time. Have 7 pounds in the crock pot now as bar-b-que for the families Christmas dinner. Yum! Life is good.

Very nice Big Earl....

I am so friggn jealous...I only have a 358 wssm dummy round and to see such a pretty rig (I am a stainless guy even though that one is in the white)

its all about the rig and caliber...

congrats!

Mr green with envy.

hey...try some heavies single loaded as far out as you can...hope you have some freebore.

Well she is finaly a "buck" rifle and not just a meat maker!