I'm in the thinking stage of a future project. I've been wanting a 375 something on a Mauser action to use purely for a beat around gun in the farm truck, but mostly "just cuz" gun. The action is just a factory sporterized BRNO. I've narrowed it down to either the 375-06(375 Whelen) or the 375 Hawk/Scovill. If I go with the 375 Whelen, I'll stick with the standard/unimproved version. If I decide I want to be able to get headstamped brass, I'll go with the Hawk/Scovill. I'm assuming that if I go with the Hawk/Scovill I'll only be able to fit 4 rounds in the mag. It doesn't really matter I guess, but I'd like it to hold five if there is a way to do it. The downside to the 375 Whelen is that I've not seen a source for properly headstamped brass. Maybe I can electro pencil 35 Whelen brass to say "375/35 Whelen". I have a 9.3x62(CZ 550 and zastava mauser), a 35 Whelen(FN Mauser), and a 375 H&H(Winchester) so the purpose of this gun is purely redundant other than the fact I just want one. I would like your thoughts on these two cartridges as well as your thoughts on barrel length. I'm tempted to do a 20" or 21" barrel for ease of handling, especially if it's going to set in the truck all the time. I'm not a velocity hound so I'm not sure if I'd notice the loss in velocity compared to a 24" barrel. Speaking of which, what kind of velocities would one expect using 235gr and 300gr pills with these cartridges? Your thoughts are appreciated.

P.S. Have a Safe and Happy Fourth!

The original was named the 38 Whelen not 375 Whelen so you can turn the 5 in 35 Whelen and make it into an 8 to be the correct nomenclature and easy conversion to 38 Whelen.

38 Whelen... Awesome! See, that's why I joined this forum... To get un-ignorant... Thanks boomstick...

Don't worry. I am still ignorant of so many gun things still. It takes a lifetime to be a true gun know it all. Most of what I have learned has been here.

My gunsmith stamped the barrel with 375-06. The die maker,Redding, has 375 Whelen on the dies.
I had my 375 made on an Interarms Mark X Mauser action with a medium varmit/target barrel 22 inches long.
My intent was to have a test bed for working up cast bullets at jacketed bullet velocities.
Bought bullet molds from Lyman, RCBS, NEI and Saeco. I used 35 Whelen load data with the same bullet weights and used SWAG for the rest.
My original idea was that large caliber rifles are more accurate then smaller caliber, if the shooter can stand the recoil. I got some mighty accurate loads using cast bullets.
Some of my shooting buddies thought it was fun to watch me get stood up by that rifle, from the bench.
The Saeco and the RCBS proved to be the best balance between recoil and accuracy and still the power to stop most anything on this continent.
For sheer power and penetration the NEI 300 grain is the bullet to use. If you wear dentures use the heavy duty Poligrip.
Never have fired a jacketed bullet thru the barrel.
Have fun.

Jim

I had JES reboring take my old Sedgley Springfield out to 375 Whelen last year. The bore wasn't any too good in the original rifle and it had been bubba'd by some past owner with side and top mount scope base holes.

I've done quite a bit of load development with it and have had pretty good success with bullets from 235-300 grain.I haven't used it on game yet but it has turned in some good groups. I haven't been turning the volume up too high on my loads in deference to the old rifle and the fact that it is fairly light for a 375. With 300 grain bullets it leaves little doubt that it went off.

I have been able to run 2250-2300 with 300 grain bullets, 2400 with 270 grain and 2550-2600 with 235 grain bullets. I would expect the old Hornady 270 grain roundnose, of which I have a few hundred, to really be a good critter stomper in this round.

For brass I used unfired LC match brass, all the same year. I have a 35 Whelen and a 400 Whelen so didn't want to use the same headstamp to avoid confusion. I annealed the necks and shoulder and formed 200 cases with an expander die and only lost one case. My CH4D expander die takes it out to 35 caliber in the first push and 416 in the second. After that it's into a CH4D FL die set to where I get a case with a snug fit in the chamber.

As for powders, H4895 has been a good performer. I haven't been able to do much testing with RL 15 but have done a little. It turned in good accuracy and velocity. I am not near my loading notes currently but can share my data with you next week. I posted some of my early data some time ago in the big bore forum.

I have read the data on the 375 Hawk/Scoville and it bests what I have been able to achieve in my 375 by a fair margin. I expect they were running on the high side for pressures. I have tried to keep my loads in the 50-52,000 psi range, using Quick Load as a reference.

Boom is correct about the 38 Whelen. It was the original 375/06 or 375 Whelen and actually preceded the 400 Whelen in development. Colonel Whelen stopped work on it when Winchester dropped their 275 grain bullet and the 38-72 cartridge. He subsequently moved on to work on the 400 Whelen, my favorite of the three Whelens.

Good luck with your rifle. I'll be happy to share my data with you if you would like.

Mart

You are wrong on the magazine capacity of the 375 Hawk/Scovill. It is also based on the 30-06 round, only blown-out and formed forward. Therefore: it would have the same magazine capacity as the 375-06 Whelen.

Dies are available from Huntington's for the Hawk/Scovill.. I had them make a set. The reamers and headspace gauges are rentable. The print That I have is marked Loon Lake Precision. That is Dave Manson's shop. I had my reamer and gauges made by JGS. I have been too tied up to get to making up the rifle. Have parts, minus a stock. Load data is available vie the Hawk Manuel via Amazon.

quote:

You are wrong on the magazine capacity of the 375 Hawk/Scovill. It is also based on the 30-06 round, only blown-out and formed forward. Therefore: it would have the same magazine capacity as the 375-06 Whelen.

That depends on the mag box. Because the case in blown out and more or less straight you start getting a issue in the tapered mag box.

I shoot my own wildcats based on a blown out shoulder forward 280 case. I often need to take a file to the shoulder area of the mag box to give me just a touch more room to allow me to still get 5 down in something like a M98 box.

Seems to get worse on something larger than a 338.

I have a 375/06 imp on a 54 Winchester with a 25" cut rifled barrel. Using N540 and 300gr Barnes originals, 2440+ avg with no pressure signs. An extra grain gains 45fps. Recoil is brisk but not severe.

quote:

Originally posted by swarf:
You are wrong on the magazine capacity of the 375 Hawk/Scovill. It is also based on the 30-06 round, only blown-out and formed forward. Therefore: it would have the same magazine capacity as the 375-06 Whelen.

Nope... You're wrong... I have a 338-06 Improved on a Winchester 70, a 35 Whelen Improved on a Mauser that PO Ackley built, and a Zastava mauser in 9.3x62(which could be considered an "improved" 30-06 case). In each of those rifles, 4+1 is all they hold. You can force 5 down if you really tried but your going to put a big dent in the top cartridge of you try to close the bolt. The cz550 in 9.3 will hold 5, but the action I'm building this 375 on is a Mauser 98...

Mart and Jim, thanks for your input. I'm definately going to stick with the "38 Whelen" chamber. I see no need for the improved case for my purposes. Mart, I'll be hitting you up about your data in a PM. Thanks!

.429, that is SMOKIN from an '06 based case! I bet that would be a lot of fun for plains game. How much does your rifle weigh?

quote:

but the action I'm building this 375 on is a Mauser 98

Templar. Since you say you are staying std then you will get 5 down. If you want to get 5 IMP cases down in a Zastava it just takes a "little metal removal right at the shoulder. Takes about 5 minutes.

Yeah, that's part of the reason I'm staying with the plain vanilla version... Plus, I get tired of fire-forming. I may try that on my Zastava, I haven't even had it apart yet. I was thinking about widening the shoulder area on my FN Mauser to get five down, but there isn't much material on the sides of the commercial magazine box.

(+Templar+one of us
.429, that is SMOKIN from an '06 based case! I bet that would be a lot of fun for plains game. How much does your rifle weigh? )

Very ugly rifle. Original stock (rough) the barrel is a Dan Pederson blank contoured as a medium H+H might be. Williams receiver sight. Haven't weighed it but best guess is about 8lb.

I played with that idea for quite a long time and the best of them was the 9.5x62 (375X62) Its and easy wildcat, brass is available, and you can run a 9.3x62 case into the 9.5x62 die and presto you ready to load..Velocity will equal a lot of 375 H&H book listed loads..My pet load was a 300 gr. bullet at 2350 to 2400 FPS in a 22 or 23 inch barrel in one of the guns I built. Max load pressure started showing at a tad over 2500 FPS. One rifle indicated 2450 at max and another was 2540 FPS for max..I used Lothar Walthar barrels exclusively...

A great wildcat and easy to load. The 9.3x62 case is about perfect..The 06 case can be used but like using it in the 9.3x62 its an abusive practice, you get a bulge in the rear of the 06 cases and case life is shortened and it won't give you the same velocity. I have no idea why the 375 Scoville, or Hawk/scoville was modified, and don't remember the difference, but recall it was very little and just added an additional step in the forming process ???

I have always had an idea that the 9.3x64 case would be just a bit better necked up to a 375. It would duplicate the 375 H&H and without a belt, so I was in the process of putting one together, about that time the .375 Ruger came out and I couldn't see any reason to continue along these lines and made a .375 Ruger out of the project..

I also liked the 375 Brown Whelen,but that was some 50 years ago..It was a barn burner for sure. The short neck was never a problem as far as I could tell.

The 375 Ruger voids the rest IMO.

Actually I still prefer the old 375 H&H and I have had the same one for 50 or so years I guess. Belt cartridges are taboo to some, I write that off as a perceived problem in the mind of the beholder.

The differences in these cases are minimal. I'd say KISS and go 375-06

A picture is worth 1k words, so . . .

First 2 times I looked at that drawing I missed there were both the Whelen and AI.

The center two with the coated black bullets in this picture are the 375 Whelen and My 380PDK. I used 280 Length brass and my shoulder is just forward of the Hawk.

While my case will push 260gr bullets "almost" as fast as my H&H the basic Whelen will do pretty much what you need. Yes I could have stuck with my H&H but then what fun is that. Just call me different.

Scovill claims the loads he lists in his findings fall within the 50,000 cup or 60,000 psi that the 30-06 is rated for. .001 case head expansion shown for his loads.

Got the .375 barrel ordered today... Also, I may have "accidentally" ordered a .411 barrel while I had Shilen on the phone. These Whelen's are addictive...