Just been told by a gunsmith to use

Carbon out KG for first pass with jag followed by literally brake and clutch cleaning product from motoring outfit

Any mileage in that before I try it on my own barrels

From his demo

It certainly look squeaky clean in a few pass and quite effortless

Brake cleaner (not brake fluid which fills the lines) is an outstanding cleaner and degreaser. That being said, I'm not sure how it compares to "gun scrubber" type products, but I do think it is similar and much cheaper.

Don't forget that any such product will take all oil off your metal (meaning instant rust potential) and may harm or even shatter some plastics......

Cheers,

Dan

Definitely not brake fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic.

Brake cleaner has trichloroethylene -- carcinogenic. Gunscrubber used methylene chloride or trichlor(?). KG 3 has no CFC's.

Brakleen brand (and most others, I presume) are non-chlorinated, and non-carcinogenic. http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/5088.pdf

Brake fluid and brake cleaner are entirely different things.

Brake cleaner is an excellant spray solvent but every one I've ever used will destroy any plastic or painted surface it hits. I've used Walmart's cheep brake cleaner to spray clean my dies but I also spray oil them immediately afterwards.

Only time I've used brake cleaners to clean bores is with the wood and plastic parts off and scopes off or well wrapped to keep anything from touching those delicate lens coatings and sealing O rings.

Again, I am sold on FROG LUBE! I picked up an Arisaka for parts that had been in a flood and been buried. It was covered in dirt,grime, and about 1/8 inch rust from top to bottom. So far I have about 4 hours into it. A lot of that is hurry up and wait time. I have managed to get the dust cover off, the bolt out the magazine out, trigger group out. The bolt and trigger group have been completely torn down and cleaned. No rust left at all. The barrel inside is clean and believe it or not the lands and grooves ar damn near pristine. It is a last ditch so the outside milling is rough and the rust took a stronger foothold there. That said the majority of the rust is off 95 percent of it. All I have used is my hands and some paper towels. I will use some steel wool on the tough stuff. At the end of all this instead of parts I may keep this one intact. Frog lube is great stuff. The best CLP product I have ever tried. I have used maybe 1/4 a jar on this. At $12 a jar regular cleaning and lube becomes extremely cheap. Last it is non petroleum, based on plant material and smells like mint so the wife does not complain when I clean the guns in the family room. Only real catch if there is one is you need to heat the metal up to about 125 degrees F for it to work best. A hairdryer does just fine.
I know I sound like a bloody salesman but I just cant say enough good things about this stuff.

DO NOT get any brake cleaner on your wood finish!

Don't ask....

Do not use brake fluid in your bore! It is a hygroscopic medium which attracts and holds water. I can't think of any good reason to put it into a gun - anywhere in a gun.

There are very few oils that will mix with brake fluid - it turns gummy and eventually into a clay like mass.

Brake parts cleaner is great for removing oil, varnish,and carbon but it will also quickly remove the finish from any wood parts and dissolve most plastics readily.

Use it with appropriate caution.

Automatic transmission fluid is the best for lubricating parts to omit friction according to an artical by Whites lab in the American Rifleman many years ago. Some high ranking gunsmith still agree with that..I use it to lubicate parts.

Back in the late 1960's we used Marvel Mystery Oil to lube our Bullseye semiautos....

In todays world, just use BreakFree, Ballistol, or in high dust/sand environments Prolix.

For barrels use Shooters Choice, one of the copper disolving foams, and J&B Pore Paste...

I always said if it says for guns it is ok.

The rest of you can play with the other things out there

I couldn't agree more. ATF is designed to stay on the metal and not dry out. Dry transmission gears are not a good thing. If you want it to smell good, add a few drops of Marvel Mystery Oil or 3 in 1. That makes an ideal clean, lubricate, and protect product.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Automatic transmission fluid is the best for lubricating parts to omit friction according to an artical by Whites lab in the American Rifleman many years ago. Some high ranking gunsmith still agree with that..I use it to lubicate parts.

It is really very, very simple to me. Kroil penetrating oil for carbon, Wipe Out foam, or Bore Tec Eliminator for copper.

I always get a chuckle when reading about the various "miracle gun lube" formulas...some look good enough to pour on your ice cream sundae's.

Jeffo's looks especially tasty...I LIKE Royal Purple oil, but I think you need to add a qt of Marvel Mystery oil also, to make it smell right.

6 qts if gunslik...that should keep a Marine garrison well supplied for a couple of years.


ATF is anti foaming also but not so hot in the temp department...so you need to keep the cyclic rate down on your full auto's or it will burn just like in a hot auto tranny.


I have my OWN secret sauce but NO WAY will I divulge it to the unwashed masses.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Automatic transmission fluid is the best for lubricating parts to omit friction according to an artical by Whites lab in the American Rifleman many years ago. Some high ranking gunsmith still agree with that..I use it to lubicate parts.

It is also an exellent penetrant; some wet patches down a hot barrel or soaking that rusted-up bolt on your trucks suspension-perfect!

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Brake cleaner has trichloroethylene -- carcinogenic. Gunscrubber used methylene chloride or trichlor(?). KG 3 has no CFC's.

Barry, considering the air you and I breathe, does it matter?

Off topic a little BUT - Most of the cleaners, de-greasers, solvents, penetrants, etc we use for cleaning firearms not only do a wonderful job of removing fouling, they all penetrate and migrate easily to your liver via skin contact. The chemical components do not have to be labeled a potential carcinogenic constituent to cause serious damage.

Nitrile Gloves do wonders to protect yourself. How many use them during firearm cleaning?

Harry, on top of everything else I'm asthmatic.
Yep, the Gulf Coast is killing me slowly.
Wish I was back in Aggieland...

I made a gallon of Ed's Red for cleaning rifles and revolvers.
At the range I'll pop the lid on the gallon pail put the muzzle of the rifle in and use the cleaning rod to pull the cleaner up into the barrel. When the jag reaches the chamber to fluid runs back into the bucket/pail. I do this several times, set the rifle on the bench muzzle down to drip dry so to speak.
I run a few patches to dry it out and case the rifle.
On our hot Virginia days at the pistol range I pop the lid of the pail and drop the revolver in the pail to cool the revolver and start the cleaning program. When the pail gets full of model 25s I take a break and finish the cleaning.

Jim

Ignoring my better judgement, I'll throw this in for good measure. I've tried just about every gun oil product there is. Some work pretty well... others not so much. The best I've found (for my particular purposes) is the oil used in jet engines (MIL-L-23699). It's about the same viscosity as 3-In-1 (mainly because most light oils or spindle oils are repackaged turbine engine oils), doesn't attract dust or evaporate in the desert heat like a lot of gun oils I've tried, and does an outstanding job as a rust preventative, as you might guess being formulated to protect the innerds of a ten million dollar engine. The best part is: it's available where I work (one of the plusses of being an aircraft mechanic).

23699 comes in several different flavors, but I prefer EXXON 2380. Unlike most like MobilJet II, it's clear and doesn't have a nasty smell. Nothing but the best for my 100+ year old guns!

Porosonik.

2023699

I shot Hunter Class Benchrest for four years in the early nineties. The gunsmith who built my rifle told me to just use Top End Engine Cleaner. It was an aerosol foam sold by GM for cleaning outboard engines. He told me to run a patch down the barrel, and let it sit about a minute. Another patch, and a minute wait. Dry patch and back to the line to shoot. This was just 6-10 rounds, but a full powder 308 load.

After every match, a wet patch of Sweet's 7.62, soak a minute, and a dry patch followed by one of the old Hoppes #9. Put the rifle away. I shot about 1000 rounds that year in the course of 19 matches. He told me to NEVER put a brush down that stainless barrel. I did not. After 20 break-in rounds I did my loadwork with a Leupold 36X scope. I went from 40gr of 4895 up to 43.5gr when I quit. That load, with 150gr Sierra MK's shot in the low twos. Like .260"+/- depending on the conditions. At the end if four years, it would still shoot under half-an-inch consistently for 5-shots at 100yds. I sold it to a newbie, and had a new 30 HBR built on a Hall action.

The guy did not listen to me about the cleaning, and within 800 rounds he had shot be barrel out.

Rich

PS: if you do not think a brush will harm a barrel, just drag one across the outside of your barrel and look.

The OLD GM top engine cleaner is the classic one.None left on dealers shelves any more.A friend bought the last case from a dealer here& is still on the prowl for more.

quote:

ATF is anti foaming also but not so hot in the temp department...so you need to keep the cyclic rate down on your full auto's or it will burn just like in a hot auto tranny.

Full synthetic 2-stroke oil wont burn!

Brake cleaner gave me a chemical burn. Took about a year before the skin on my hands stopped peeling.

Brake fluid, use it for brakes, keep it off your body.

If you want a homemade, cheap, decent cleaner, look for the receipe for "Ed's Red".

I agree with Slamfire. Brake cleaner is hazardous. Ed's Red does everything you need and it won't poison you as long as you don't drink it. Ed's Red with lanolin might even be good for your skin.

Rich, back in the day, a lot of us used Quicksilver Engine Cleaner, a Mercury Marine outboard engine cleaner...

A few years later, it smelled just like a new product on the market, Shooters Choice Bore Cleaner...

Shooters Choice has some rust preventive in it as well...
It is good stuff...

To hell with brakes and transmissions, and even clutches.

The best mixture is fresh, no more than day old, cat piss and rendered to mustard yellow black bear fat, mixed with Kroil and Hoppe's No. 9.

I have already told too much, and I will not share the precise proportions. These have taken me too many years, too many cats, and too many bears, to figure out.

I'll be damned if I'll share them for free on the Internet!

NE,

big surprise there. Same stuff, but priced by the 8oz bottle like the Quicksilver or Mercury outboard gallon. Both carbon dissolving magic...

Rich

Bombardier, formerly OMC, Engine Tuner cleans the heck out of carbon deposits as well. It is probably the same product as offered by Mercury Marine.

I've used brake cleaner to wash out parts like triggers, but wired them to the end of a dowel so I could hold the part away from me while I sprayed it down. I still wore gloves for safety's sake too.

Old time recipe: Called Blue Goop, got the name because some or the bench rest boys dropped a penny or bullet in it to "activate it"

All that said is works and its potent and it cleans bores in a hurry with or without the penny. Not to mention its cheap to make.

One quart of 20% commercial ammonia, one cup of Hydrogen Peroxide, the penny is optional..

Swab the barrel liberally, wait no more than 20 minutes and run dry patches down the bore. cleaning the bore when finished with hot soapy water isn't a bad idea at this point, dry and oil profusely..Done properly it really works great, done sloppy guts your bore...

The hot soapy cleaning is my idea, the old benchresters just dried and oiled the bores.

Don't breath the fumes and best to do it outside.

Um, Ed's Red (with or without lanolin) is just as toxic as brake fluid, marine engine tune or the other carcinogenic poisons folks here have (unbelievably, IMHO) suggested to clean a barrel. A brass bore brush won't hurt a barrel if said brush is used properly (news flash: brass is softer than steel). Since I want to enjoy my grandkids I use non toxic chemicals to clean barrels. Ballistol, Frog Lube and Prolix make products than ensure your personal longevity.

Un-Chl brake cleaner is Acetone in a spray can.

At $5 for a big can, works to remove oil but does nothing on carbon. I tried the 3M product this week.

The original question was whether a "spray brake cleaner" can be used to clean firearms. Yes indeed, for cleaning off accumulated grease, oil, and burned and unburned powder. It does nothing to remove copper fouling and I wouldn't use it in a bore simply because it evaporates very quickly, thus having no chance to do any cleaning to speak of. A standard bore cleaner is ones best options for cleaning the bore, and they all work about the same in my experience.

When using brake cleaner (or a similar product) it is best used in the action, after removing the grips or the action from the stock. As mentioned brake cleaner can damage many wood finishes, and some plastics, though not all plastics. The newer polymers and rubber stocks are pretty much impervious to solvents such as brake cleaner.

As for "gun oil," they all work about the same also. I myself use "CLP" and have for about 20 years with no complaints. It also makes an adequate bore cleaner, though some folks don't think it does well with copper fouling.

The issue of "toxicity" has been mentioned, but in my experience that is a "crap shoot." At 16 I worked in a meat packing plant as a janitor. We used a very powerful industrial soap called "Kelite" to clean the cutting room five days a week. I worked there for two years pretty much bathing in that soap each night, which was later determined to cause cancer in some people. I have also used spray brake cleaner off and on from about the same age without using rubber gloves. During the 1980s while working as a machinist I worked in plants that used Methyl Ethyl Keytone (MEK) as a solvent. We basically washed our hands in it while using it. It too causes cancer in some people. And I've smoked pretty much since I was 18 and went into the Army. I encourage anyone to use as much protection as they feel necessary, but all those chemicals are not going to kill everybody. Life is a crap shoot, so one either plays or watches, and each person has to decide that on their own.

All this advise is just too complicated, I'm going back to bear grease, besides it makes great biscuits, tortillas, and pie crusts. but then why would I waste it on my guns! decisions, decisions!

Wait I just remembered my dad had a barrel of old oil from draining the tractor, and when his 30-30 got hard to cock, he just swished it around in that barrel and dried it off with an old towel, and stuck it back in the saddle scabbard..it worked for him for over 80 years and I'm not kidding!! but it was a little rough on the saddle scabbard, he, went through several of them.

Brake fluid is not a gun cleaning solvent, that is why it is call brake fluid. It is hydraulic fluid used to put pressure on cylinders that actuate your brakes.

I would get another gunsmith if he is that ignorant.

Use one of the tried/tested gun cleaning fluids out there. There are many to choose from...

Hell white bread is toxic, or soon will be recognized as such if we don't get the liberals out of the USA, they done ruint most of my good eating habits and put a kibosh on my drinking habits and my favorite stock finish has tuanal in it and that will give me cancer, BTW don't drink the water unless its out of bottles they fill up behind the service stations at night.

About the only thing I think you guys left off the list is Seafoam Have no idea what that would do!

I will have to admit the ATF mixed with Marvel Mystery Oil does sound worth a try but I am afraid to use for the first time of what it will or won't do.