Am I the only guy who cleans his firearms with products made for cleaning firearms? I use such silly things as Breakfree CLP, Hoppe's No.9, Rem Oil, Shooter's Choice, and my favorite, Holland & Holland Nevarust. I have never had to resort to using anything that was made for cleaning automobile brakes, carburetors, or engines.

So far me to Grenadier but does sounds interesting.

you figure that you are finding two types of deposits in the barrel, carbon and copper.

What I am going to tell you is based on several years of shooting both Hunter Class, and LV/HV/SP Bench Rest matches all over the NW, and once at the Super Shoot. Not just my idea, but one I learned from people like Steve Kostanich, and Tony Boyer and Ed Shilen, and Alan Hall.

Based on that background; a lot, a L-O-T, of people who shoot competition use a bore mop soaked in carbon dissolver (I used Quicksilver Engine Cleaner)that is used for cleaning two-stroke outboard marine engines.

As for the copper, a swab of the carbon remover, followed by a clean one or two patches is preferred. Swab it, then patch it dry.

Tell me you AREN'T still sticking a copper or other metal wire brush down a good barrel...?

If you are, polish a piece of steel with something like Flitz, and then drag a bore brush over that nice shiny surface. All those minute scratches you see are the same thing that bore brush is doing to the interior of your barrel; as well as providing hundreds of minute grooves for carbon/copper to fill.

My first year of shooting Bench Rest I bought some fancy (read expensive!) bore cleaning chemicals. Then the gunsmith who built my rifle told me to just buy Quicksilver Engine Cleaner at the auto parts stores. Nice aerosol foam spray can for about $6 a 16 ox can. Then, a gentleman who beat my socks off at a big Hunter Class Match in Tigard (Tri-County), Oregon told me to just shell out $32 for a gallon of the stuff.

I would shoot 6-8 rounds in a relay, and when I got back to the bench I had a cleaning/reloading procedure. I would deprime my cases, run a swab soaked in the QS down the barrel and leave the rod in it. Reprime the cases, then unscrew the swab and pull the rod back thru (using a boreguide). Powder charge the cases and seat the bullet, all this done on an Arbor Press and Wilson dies. Run back to the line and shoot my next target. I would repeat the process six times (including the sighter target, at each yardage. 100/200//300.

At the end of a match, I would run a patch wrapped around a wire brush soaked in Sweet's down the barre and leave it 5-8 minutes. Then, run a swab of OLD Hoppe's #9 down the barrel twice, and leave it until the next match. I shot over 2300 Sierra 150gr Matchkings in a tightneck (take a .308 Win reamer that cuts a .340" neck, then turn your cases to a .010" thickness. That is referred to as a tight-neck Turkey or TNT full length 308 case), over a spring/summer/fall in nineteen registered HBR matches.

The TCL, TransContinental League held matches all over the country. It was a neat program, everyone who showed up at a match was on that club's team that week/month. They took the top five scores and turned them in. Each competitor also had each score recorded for a total at the end of the season.

Not to brag, because the Lord guided me, but I made the Top Five every match that year. Out of over 250 competitors who fired at least five matches, I finished 7th overall. Actually, a four way tie, but I won on X-count. HBR targets have a half-moa 10-ring, with an eighth inch dot (X) in the center. The 6X scope limitation and a minimum 6mm and 30-30 case capacity makes it challenging. You cannot actually see even the 1/2" 10-ring thru your scope, just thru your spotting scope.

To make this long story short(er), nearly all of the top competitors used the same procedure.

We pretty much all used contact cleaner before every match to clean the barrel.

some information you may find to be of assistance in maintaining barrel accuracy...

Rich

I use brake cleaner to blow all the gunk out before I starting using gun cleaners. 1/4 the price of the gun blaster type stuff.

I also use it to degrease. For example, I got stuck in a bad storm last weekend - a ground lightning strike about every minute. Thought I was in an Old Testament story or something. Left my rifle and shooting sticks on the ground when I headed back to the truck - don't carry a lightning rod in a storm. Came back later and retrieved it. Covered in mud and gunk. Cleaned the rifle with clean water - including down the barrel - then wiped down with CLP and ran a few patches through the bore. Shot great btw on the critters the next day. When I got home, I took the rifle apart, degreased with the brake cleaner, lathered it with Rust Inhibitor, including all the inner bolt and trigger workings, then degreased again with brake cleaner (eliminate any pooling oil) and then reoiled carefully. Works great.

Jose Cuevo is an excellent gun cleaner, but you must combine it with a boresnake, a couple of good friends, and lots of conversation.....

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
I can't think of any good reason to put it into a gun - anywhere in a gun.

Actually DOT5 brake fluid is silicone based and does not absorb water. If you coat the internal parts of a suppressor with it, the carbon is much easier to clean off. Of course plain silicone oil does the same thing.

But yes, regular brake fluid will eat paint and absorb water...

quote:

Originally posted by Eric:
The original question was whether a "spray brake cleaner" can be used to clean firearms. Yes indeed, for cleaning off accumulated grease, oil, and burned and unburned powder. It does nothing to remove copper fouling and I wouldn't use it in a bore simply because it evaporates very quickly, thus having no chance to do any cleaning to speak of. A standard bore cleaner is ones best options for cleaning the bore, and they all work about the same in my experience.

When using brake cleaner (or a similar product) it is best used in the action, after removing the grips or the action from the stock. As mentioned brake cleaner can damage many wood finishes, and some plastics, though not all plastics. The newer polymers and rubber stocks are pretty much impervious to solvents such as brake cleaner.

As for "gun oil," they all work about the same also. I myself use "CLP" and have for about 20 years with no complaints. It also makes an adequate bore cleaner, though some folks don't think it does well with copper fouling.

The issue of "toxicity" has been mentioned, but in my experience that is a "crap shoot." At 16 I worked in a meat packing plant as a janitor. We used a very powerful industrial soap called "Kelite" to clean the cutting room five days a week. I worked there for two years pretty much bathing in that soap each night, which was later determined to cause cancer in some people. I have also used spray brake cleaner off and on from about the same age without using rubber gloves. During the 1980s while working as a machinist I worked in plants that used Methyl Ethyl Keytone (MEK) as a solvent. We basically washed our hands in it while using it. It too causes cancer in some people. And I've smoked pretty much since I was 18 and went into the Army. I encourage anyone to use as much protection as they feel necessary, but all those chemicals are not going to kill everybody. Life is a crap shoot, so one either plays or watches, and each person has to decide that on their own.

I go along with your idea. I have long used brakcleen for cleaning action parts on disassembled guns, especially autoloading rifles and pistols. It does evaporate quickly, and if you don't oil it up, will rust in a heartbeat.

For bore cleaning, I use wipe out, followed by break free, which I leave in the bore, and have nothing but mirror bright bores.

I have used practically all the foaming bore cleaners and they really remove the copper and leave the bore shinning.
After that I run some Hoppes #9 on a patch down the pipe and my patch is black. Clean all that residue out and then a light coat of Kroil oil.
My experience is that the foaming cleaners do not remove all the powder or carbon.

I have used brake cleaner, Ed's Red and Hoppes #9 for bore cleaners and general carbon and grime removal. All of them work fine. Ed's is a little better in the plastic removal if you have been shooting sabots.

Copper fouling is a Sweet's 7.62 matter as far as I am concerned. It has never let me down.

I like to end the session with a little Kroil.

Black Powder is another matter entirely.

It took years to develop but my secret method is grandchildren.

Rich, Thanks for the info on Quicksilver Engine Cleaner. I have never heard that but it sure makes sense. I am going to get some. I wonder if it will help much with cast bullet leading. Brian

I've used Quicksilver for about 20 years. It does a good job. I buy it by the gallon. It use to smell exactly like Shooter Choice until one or the other changed the formula. I often wondered if somebody bought Quicksilver by the barrel and sold it a couple of ounces at a time.

Dave

Brake cleaners that are non-chlorinated are clearly labeled as such, because the nn-chlorinated type have another unfortunate characteristic... they are highly flammable...

Typically they contain Acetone and/or Toluene in a larger quantity of methyl alcohol.

The Chlorinated types make good fire extinguishers, the non-chlorinated kind make gasoline look like a great firefighting compound.

And while Brake cleaners used to use Trichloroethane this chemical has been banned for this use, instead they use tetrachlorethane.which is about as good a degreaser....

DECADES ago they used a compound known as Freon-TF, which was both harmless to most plastics and pleasant smelling, but that chemical was banned before Trichloroethane.

Trichloroethane
Tetrachloroethane
Methylene Chloride (aka DiChloro Methane)
are all very effective degreasers, but will destroy most plastics and wood finished on contact...

Dichloro-Ethane should you come across is anywhere is both highly flammable and is also a CONTROLLED precursor Chemical for several Chemical warfare agents.


But in general "Brake parts cleaners" are the most accessable quick evaporating degreases.
AAvailable at any autoparts store...

AD

Im now wondering how many years I knocked off my life using all this poison, Im now 82 and if Id been told sooner I would probably be 92 by now, damn! Anyone ever use brake cleaner in your coffee??

I always heard brake cleaner to take off the Krylon, carburetor cleaner to clean your bore.

What I really like best is Barnes CR10 and Hoppes #9 for the banana oil smell. I even add Hoppes to my home barrel lube concoction which is mostly full synth 5-40 rotella and some #1 heating oil.

Guy says something about using brake fluid up above. That stuff is bad juju for barrels as it attracts water.

Nothing beats CR10 for getting out copper and fouling in my experience.

I've probably posted this before:
I make my own a gallon at a time: GM TEC, White Ammonia, and Kroil. The good GM TEC has not been available for a few years, but I still have about 15 cans left. Mercury Quick Silver is very good on carbon, but I've heard the formula has changed.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
It is really very, very simple to me. Kroil penetrating oil for carbon, Wipe Out foam, or Bore Tec Eliminator for copper.

A bore scope won't lie.....this works.

All the commercial bore cleaners and metal perseritive work just fine, I used Hoppes for two lifetimes without a problem or ruined barrel..I use hot soapy water with a hot water rinse on a bad bore black powder gun or and old English double rifle and works as good as any bore cleaner out their...

This is the most OCD post Ive seen on AR, but hey knock yer lights out!! I doubt if any barrels will suffer from any of these componets, the cheap jointed cleaning rods will get'em first.

I use products made for guns on guns and products made for cars on cars.

Pretty simple really

quote:

Originally posted by npd345:
I use products made for guns on guns and products made for cars on cars.

Pretty simple really

Have you priced your choice of your gun solvent by the gallon? Some of us have many weapons that need to be cleaned multiple times during the year.
I think you are a pretty good guy, but off base on this topic.

Well Butch you bring up a good point.

I have never bought more than a quart at a time so the cost is spread out over time.

I suppose if you are comfortable mixing up your own stuff go for it.

I am sure you would never use anything you were not 100% sure was safe for your guns.

To each his own I guess!

Seafoam with a shot of good whiskey works! or just a shot of good whiskey if your into health products...

How in the hell have I lived to be 83 in 10 days. I spent a life time of bathing in all this bad stuff. All us old timers did before we knew better, some made it and some didn't but most fell off the roof or went head on into a mac truck, many of my friends drank the stuff because the ran out of sipp'en whisky..If Id a known I was going to live this long, Id of taken better care of myself (Gene Autry)

I prefer carburetor/injector cleaner for carbon. There are loads of products for removing copper, but patch-out or KG12 work well, as does KG4 bore polish. Finally, either KG3 or iso-propanol (in preference to brake cleaner) to remove excess solvents/grease/oil etc. Eezox is a good oil to use.

That's it, Im going back to Hoppes #9 and soap and water with a scalding hot rinse, it worked on all my guns 70 years ago, and the smell of Hoppes in the process brings back so many good memories of guns bein cleaned in camp, sipping whiskey and eating meals cooked in iron skillets, that is something many of you may never be privy too, so much the shame.

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Yep, the Gulf Coast is killing me slowly.

How so? Isn't the gulf coast a good place to live?

I've followed this thread since it's inception, and just keep shaking my head. Not only from the quips but from the effort placed on making some kind of "witches brew" that somehow trumps what the gun cleaner makers have come out with using MUCH more scientific methods to test the effectiveness of their products.

By the way...carbon cleaners have been used by benchresters back 40-50 years...a VERY "not so secret" secret...and I've been using carbon removers on 2 stroke motorcycle and boat motors and 4 stroke diesel truck and gasoline car engines since the late 50's...AND MY GUNS. NOT the same brand product, that has changed over the years but most likely the SAME ingredients...it's been well know in industry for God knows how long...just took a long time and the invention of the 'net and a lot of loose tongues for it to come out.

YEAH...this gun cleaning sh** cost a ton by the gallon and I use up a couple bottles(and several packs of patches) of several brands per year cleaning, but the cost of the "gun cleaning product" is a hellofalot less than the cost of some of my guns, the cost of a rebarrel, not to mention the change in accuracy.

So if you want to end up with a rotted out, piz-poor accurate, carboned up, POS garbage...then keep using all that "other cleaning stuff"...more power to you....I wouldn't want to burst your bubble with "the REST of the story".

Tranny fluid is EXCELLENT for keeping slush-boxes working smoothly...non-foaming, excellent lubricity, good heat carrier and heat transfer, but just get the liquid over temp a few times or even only once, then tear one down and see all the carbon build-up....many of you know that specific smell and the sinking feeling when you realize you are stomping the hell out of the fuel petal and you are slowing down...quickly.

Oh...if you believe all that "witches brew" krap...I have some ocean front property in eastern Oregon with tall trees, wide streams AND lots of fish and game I would like you to buy...just send cash to P.O. Box .....

Good Hunting

I suspect Dr. Frankenstein to post on this thread shortly, most of his followers have!

I now have the Bald Eagle 9 liter ultrasound cleaning machine.(From Grizzly) Now, what to clean first? Probably the used 10 gauge BPS I recently bought. I think the original owner just fired it and put it away wet. Need to clean it and then get it dirty again. Straight from the Packrattusnongratus Ranch. Be Well. Packy