For the Wipe Out foam, I found a straw that just fit the nozzle. On the other end, I just put a few wraps of electric tape to make a tight fit to the chamber neck. Then I just take a quick shot in to the bore and make sure the muzzle is over an old trash can. If it drips, I don't care.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
shootaway

I have been shooting rifles since the mid 1960's.

Some barrels have more problems with the first round out than others...

I freely admit, that I stumbled upon this Prolix "treatment" by accident.

I have tried it on several barrels, now they have been quality barrels, but still it has been 100% effective in causing the first round out of a clean barrel to hit with the following rounds.

I have also used it alone to "punch out" a barrel I am shooting quite a bit at the range. Again there is no shift in zero of the first round.

Give it a try.

What I do is, after whatever I use to clean a barrel, I use a very wet patch or two of Prolix, for several strokes in the barrel then I make sure to dry out the chamber and barrel before I shoot again.

Result, no wild first shot...

I run quite a few dry patches through my bores. Good quality barrels will put the first shot right on the money. I think concept of a "fouling shot" is more like a "get the residual cleaning fluid/oil out shot."

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Yes that kind of acid will also remove the vanadium, cadmium etc from the barrel steel and leave the bore pitted and rough.

Bullshit! First of all there is no cadmium in barrel steel. Secondly, many helicopter parts are made of very similar steel. If it was harmful in any way its use would not be tolerated by our engineering department.

Do you know what the addition of Vanadium does to steel? It allows the steel to maintain its hardness when red hot. If you are shooting your barrels red hot, the last thing you need be concerned with is fouling.

Ooops! Here we go .... someone who has to get stroppy and let off ....

Let us get out of the technical scientific world and speak about the same in common school boy language. I am a sociologist & not an engineer! But social sciences also use very sound logic and facts ....

Ok, barrel steel does not have cadmium - my ignorance. Sorry .

But the logic of what I said still holds - using acid or ammonia in a rifle bore will dissolve or react with the micro elements in the metal. Is that right? Just be careful - I did not say weaken.

So if some of the tiny micro stuff gets dissolved by acid or ammonia, what is the surface like? Is it not rough & pitted - micro pits? Again - note that I am talking of the surface & not the structural strength.

Now helicopter parts - can the surface not get rough? Again - note - I am not saying it will be structurally weak. Is it absolutely necessary for those parts to be smooth like a rifle bore?

Now back to the barrel bore - will a strong and solid bore with rough surface made worse by acid or ammonia removing micro elements not become a "bad" barrel in terms of shooting accurately?

Back to rational logic 101 ....!

quote:

Now back to the barrel bore - will a strong and solid bore with rough surface made worse by acid or ammonia removing micro elements not become a "bad" barrel in terms of shooting accurately?

Back to rational logic 101 ....!

Many a Mauser rifle with horribly pitted corroded bores need only to be re-crowned to make them good shooters. Not going to win any benchrest competitions, but good enough for the average hunter.

I guess we also need to define "shooting accurately".

Almost all the surplus Mausers I ever bought, I could hit a pie plate at 100yds. No guarantee where though. Install scope only slightly better. Cutting a new crown however made them an entire different class of rifle.

I didn't mention the strength of the copper strip solution I work with. It will not remove your skin and it is at ambient temperatures. The chromic will turn your skin orange though. A quick dip in a sodium hydroxide rinse tank will usually remove the chromic acid from your skin. I wear PPE religiously, but sometimes shit happens.

The question I have yet to get an answer for though is with heavily fouled/corroded bores are we trying to dissolve the metal that has fouled the barrel or the products of galvanic corrosion between the bore and the metal fouling? I hope there is a metallurgist out there that can answer that one. METE where are you when we need your expertise?

Andy B

Nakihunter,
I can't even get 0000 steel wool to remove blue and your telling me it will remove metal!! Maybe you were using some other kind of wool, lots of sheep in neck of the woods! Ive used it with oil on some bad bores for 60 years including black powder without damage.

Ray

I am no expert. Just a DIY hobbyist.

I wanted to try rust bluing & so I started on my old Rem 521 .22LR Rim fire.

It hs a fair bit of rust and even a few shallow pits spread out evenly - the previous owner was a farmer who did not look after it.

I have scrubbed the outside of the barrel & found that that 0000 steel wool is very fine and does polish the metal and remove the blue but takes time. I used 600 & 1000 grit emery paper and that was a lot better. Then I got an idea to use the small fine wire brush on a dremmel tool. That really worked in getting into all the tiny pits and also scratching the metal. Further 600 grit & some steel wool improved the surface a lot. It is still not as good as it should be. I can still see the fine spots of the old pits but it is no longer so ugly.

6 years since I started this project!

The other one I tried was to polish the bore of my 6.5 MS greek, which is very dark and pitted with pre 1940s military ammo / mercury primers.

The bore now has a very dull dark shine but the rifle now key holes on target. It used to shoot 3" groups open sights at 100 meters. Now it shoots 12" groups with a scope!

I wonder if I screwed up the crown.

0000 steel wool does not remove metal, when you use it to rust blue it removes the oxides that form on the surface and allows the blue to remain, same as a fine wire wheel. If it removed metal you would be polishing the metal to white and never get it blued.

In many cases when one keeps getting a gob of blue on the patch, its because they are using a copper wire brush wipeout eats copper brushes!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
shootaway

I have been shooting rifles since the mid 1960's.

Some barrels have more problems with the first round out than others...

I freely admit, that I stumbled upon this Prolix "treatment" by accident.

I have tried it on several barrels, now they have been quality barrels, but still it has been 100% effective in causing the first round out of a clean barrel to hit with the following rounds.

I have also used it alone to "punch out" a barrel I am shooting quite a bit at the range. Again there is no shift in zero of the first round.

Give it a try.

What I do is, after whatever I use to clean a barrel, I use a very wet patch or two of Prolix, for several strokes in the barrel then I make sure to dry out the chamber and barrel before I shoot again.

Result, no wild first shot...

I found this to be true as well when using prolix. That is how I leave my clean bores. Wet patch of prolix followed by a dry.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
shootaway

I have been shooting rifles since the mid 1960's.

Some barrels have more problems with the first round out than others...

I freely admit, that I stumbled upon this Prolix "treatment" by accident.

I have tried it on several barrels, now they have been quality barrels, but still it has been 100% effective in causing the first round out of a clean barrel to hit with the following rounds.

I have also used it alone to "punch out" a barrel I am shooting quite a bit at the range. Again there is no shift in zero of the first round.

Give it a try.

What I do is, after whatever I use to clean a barrel, I use a very wet patch or two of Prolix, for several strokes in the barrel then I make sure to dry out the chamber and barrel before I shoot again.

Result, no wild first shot...

Some of the comments you made with regard to cleaning tell me that you lack some shooting experience.

Oh, that is rich. Ya, Tony has hardly any shooting experience....

I shot mt Searcy yesterday and just as I thought only one pre-bore condition will make the first and all the following shots strike in the same place.You people can believe anything you want.This pre-bore condition I use will also reduce all fouling.I also noticed that shooting in very cold or below zero winter weather will lower the POI by about a couple of inches(50yds).This is because a dry winter bore has less pressure.

On Prolix-I see it is a dry lube.Molly is also a dry lube.Any lube can present issues.It could work fine on bolts but not on doubles.It could work fine with some chamberings but not others etc...You cannot control the quantity of lube that is in the bore for every shot.Complicated stuff if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:

---Hmmm...you've peaked my interest on the Rem Clean stuff. What kind of product is it, a paste or a liquid? ----

The renamed and weakened product is now "40X Bore Cleaner" after previously being renamed Remington Bore Cleaner-- all the same stuff(relatively)--

Spartan Chemical made/makes it--

Spartan Peroxy Protn Rem/Clean/White

Sodium tripolyphosphate
Sodium dodecyl benzene sulfonate
Ammonium hydroxide (ammonia)

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

Oh, that is rich. Ya, Tony has hardly any shooting experience....

Hilarious, isn't it

I cleaned my double over the weekend and used both Wipe-out and Break-free bore foam.I found that the Break-free foam stayed a foam and stuck to the walls much better or longer than Wipe-out.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I cleaned my double over the weekend and used both Wipe-out and Break-free bore foam.I found that the Break-free foam stayed a foam and stuck to the walls much better or longer than Wipe-out.

The foam was probably some beer that dribbled out of your mouth and into the barrel.

I am on record that I like old Hoppes No 9. I still like the smell.

I have tried several different cleaners; JB bore paste and foaming something or other, among others. I have had Wipe Out for a couple of years, tried it once and didn't like it

I put it in the barrel and went at it in the morning. Didn't work much better than old No 9, and stunk, too.

There is a Model 7 CDL here in a 7-08 that is a copper fouling machine, I almost hate to shoot it.

This year I put Wipe Out on a patch and scrubbed the bore. An hour or so later I repeated etc. In less than a day there was no copper (blue) showing. I did not count the patches, I pushed them through until clean. I never dried it, just kept putting clean in. After the patches came out clean, I dried the barrel with several patches and put a No 9 patch through and left it a day, I dry patched the next and the barrel was clean.

I am sold on the stuff. I do not believe there is a set number of patches, just go until clean.

I will remain on record as liking the No 9 smell.

There is nothing wrong with Hoppes no. 9, it has been serving shooters and hunters for several decades..

Sometimes I think some folks get annal about cleaning a bore, Its just not that critical if the barrel is a good one...A grey patch suits me fine, and mostly I run a boresnake down my bore 3 or 4 times that equates to 240 or 320 patches, that in itself will clean a bore sufficiently IMO..but I do add a dab of Rem Oil to the brushes....

I clean my rifle once, sometimes twice a year with Wipe Out and get them fairly clean, the rest of the year with boresnakes..too many throats are ruined with cleaning rods, and no animal has ever been killed with a clean bore. My guns shoot small groups and barrels last forever...So many things in my shop are more important than a squeaky clean rifle gathering dust in a cabinet.

Why are you trying to remove every bit of copper fouling?

I have a Win 70 that after every shot has copper streaks in it. From day one it has copper fouled and I used to drive myself crazy trying to clean every bit of it out after every shooting session. Then I figured out that clean or not, it had no difference in accuracy. It's an honest sub MOA gun with the copper fouling or without.

Now I use Wipeout, let it sit for a few hours, scrub it with nylon brushes and clean it with patches. Then I use shooter's Choice powder solvent and scrub it again and patch until clean. Then I oil it and put it away, it always has a little copper streaking in the grooves and it doesn't matter to me in the least.


I also have a SS Ruger in 7 Mag that if I clean it to bare metal, will not shoot less than a 3" group until I shoot at least 20 rounds through it, then it will shoot into 3/4" after 30 rounds. I only clean it about every 300 rounds or so.

Naki,
In all respect and as conversation only. As hard as Ive tried to scratch bluing and steel with Steel Wool, I cannot make it scratch so were doing something different..In the blueing process many folks use steel wool as opposed to cording with a fine wire wheel..They use 0000 steel wool as I do...Many stock makers use steel wool on delicate wood stock finishes, a practice I do not recommend simply because it leaves micro particles of steel imbedded in the wood during the finishing process, BUT you can use it to level off the surface of a wood finish once the finish has cured for a week or two and cured completely..I have seen this done to no ill effect..

Perhaps you are using a different brand or grt of steel wool than I, dunno??? You are spot on using SS one piece rods, its the only way to go with a rod..I use a boresnake more than anything else, and a rod only once or twice a year.

Sweets btw, should not be left in the bore more than 20 minutes as per instructions..

Resurrecting my old thread.

Now the issue is with my 470 NE. Same issue of slogging away cleaning 4 or 5 times - 3 over night soaks of Wipeout + Accellerator in a cotton patch.

I was forced to use JB to get the fouling out.

I then started noticing that the boar did not show any suds after application with a cotton patch. So I decided to try a black bristle brush. Same amount of the solvent as in cotton patch but I scrubbed it a few times to foam up inside the bore. After over night soaking - one patch of cotton brought out a thick blue sludge. After another patch and a spray of CRC, the bore was clean. I tried another round of Wipeout & Accellerator but the bore was clean!

I am surprise that just using the brush instead of the patch made such a BIG difference - a lot more of the solvent stayed inside the bore and reacted with the fouling.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
What they explained to me when I first bought this product was to use the wipeout and about 1/2 the drops of the accellerator on the same patch. Use a loose fitting patch and briskly scrub the bore so as to create a foam inside the bore. Let it sit for 10 minutes the first time and then repeat the process every 5 - 10 minutes until you get no color on the patches aat all. Then just use dry patches to clean the bore. Works for me.

The Boys at Wipeout recommended that I use a Nylon Bore brush to initially apply wipeout and the accellerator instead of loose fitting patch the brush helps arreate the mixture

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Resurrecting my old thread.

Now the issue is with my 470 NE. Same issue of slogging away cleaning 4 or 5 times - 3 over night soaks of Wipeout + Accellerator in a cotton patch.

I was forced to use JB to get the fouling out.

I then started noticing that the boar did not show any suds after application with a cotton patch. So I decided to try a black bristle brush. Same amount of the solvent as in cotton patch but I scrubbed it a few times to foam up inside the bore. After over night soaking - one patch of cotton brought out a thick blue sludge. After another patch and a spray of CRC, the bore was clean. I tried another round of Wipeout & Accellerator but the bore was clean!

I am surprise that just using the brush instead of the patch made such a BIG difference - a lot more of the solvent stayed inside the bore and reacted with the fouling.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
What they explained to me when I first bought this product was to use the wipeout and about 1/2 the drops of the accellerator on the same patch. Use a loose fitting patch and briskly scrub the bore so as to create a foam inside the bore. Let it sit for 10 minutes the first time and then repeat the process every 5 - 10 minutes until you get no color on the patches aat all. Then just use dry patches to clean the bore. Works for me.

The Boys at Wipeout recommended that I use a Nylon Bore brush to initially apply wipeout and the accellerator instead of loose fitting patch the brush helps arreate the mixture

I just try to get most of the copper and powder fouling out. A waste of time to try to get it all since it's right back in there after the first shot or 2. About a year ago I got introduced to the wipeout accelerator cleaners. been using them exclusively ever since. For .25 and .26 caliber barrels my "loose" patch is a 1 1/8 inch square and my tight patch is the 1 3/4 inch square. A rod guide and Dewey coated rod is used along with the Bore Tech Proof Positive jag. first I run a loose patch with accelerator thru the bore followed by a loose patch with wipe out/patch out. Let work for 15 minutes or more then run a tight path with some hexane on it, then a second tight patch with hexane. Xylene or charcoal lighter fluid will work too.
I keep this up until it's clean and usually doesn't take more than 3 tries or so. Usually most of the powder fouling will come out in the first couple of treatments and after that you could just use the wipe out/patch out by itself. Last thing is a dry tight patch. If the barrel is chrome moly a loose patch with a bit of oil is used while nothing is used on SS barrels. If I don't get all of the copper, it's no biggie. I understand that there are additives that can be put into powder to reduce or eliminate copper and powder fouling.

The use of a Nylon brush is imparitive with any copper remover IMO..a brass brush or bronze makes for blue patches regardless of the bore condition!! A good hour or two soak with Wipeout then scrub with Nylon brush has worked for me with some very dirty old barrels..Copper cleaners need time to get under the copper and do their job..some more than others, so read the directions to get an idea, but a few hours doesn't seem to hurt, overnight is risky IMO..

Consider this, you cannot remove blueing with 0000 steel wool, how could it remove metal? Perhaps your steel wool is differenct from ours on this side of the pond..I use a lot of steel wool with hot blue or rust blue..My bores are mint, but I only use it on really bad bores like some double rifles Ive owned that were real bad cordite refugees or South Texas Winchesters. Maybe its the method of use, I wrap a bit of 0000 steel wool around a Nylon brush then use whatever bore cleaner, mostly Wipeout, and scrub being very carefull of the throat and crown, 25 passes, and a glob of blue, black brown crud follows, repeat as necessary, then hot soapy water and a scalding wash of clean hot water, repeat as necessary, or until it just won't get better, oil profusely..you can dry with clean patches but scalding hot water dries well indeed...

Anyway best of luck to you on your endeavor and let me know how it goes, Im open minded at times!!