quote:

So for his sake, I trust he did NOT get paid directly or indirectly, and I also trust that rifle in the photos was a loaner and not a rifle imported by him ...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd,

Simple question.

Do you not see that Shawn has promoted hunts with Mark Sullivan, with several clients, when Mark is not licensed to conduct these hunts??

When you read Cal’s hunt report, do you not get the impression that Mark Sullivan is the man conducting the hunt?

I understand some professional hunters in South Africa are most definitely not happy about this!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Njati:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Let's be real here. Saeed's hatred for Sullivan is long established. His vitriol on this particular thread to that end demonstrate nothing short of a loss of personal composure, regardless of whether you are a fan or a foe of Sullivan.

Cal listed the name of the licensed PH. I'm sure the paperwork is all in order as such and the PH was present in the field and with the hunting party the entire time.

But the real point I'm making is that when the man who runs one of the, if not THE No. 1 hunting forums, and specifically African hunting forums, starts using his position of influence to possibly induce a trumped up (pardon the term) charge against Cal, a charge that could irreparably ruin the man's life for good, solely based on his hatred of a man in camp, with no proof that any violation actually occurred, well I say that has a chilling effect.

So Saeed has broached the subject of a Lacy Act Violation. My question is, is that all he's done or intends to do? I'm sure he knows people of influence that could cause this issue to go further than a simple post on Cal's thread. What are his intentions along those lines? From his responses on this thread so far, I'm not sure the level of vindictiveness to do so is beyond him.

I think it’s safe to say that he didn’t take well to being called a midget

I'm not sure why you would quote me in your statement. I never called Saeed a midget.

In fact, I stated the opposite. I stated that it is a cause for concern when a man of his stature, as administrator of the premiere African hunting forum lets his hatred for one person (Sullivan) drive a level of vitriol that would insinuate that a well respected member (Cal) is guilty of a Lacy Act violation simply because they hunted out of the same camp at the same time and Cal purchased a hunt based on the fact that Sullivan would in fact be present.

Before the righteous indignation gets even further out of hand, let's consider a few things, shall we?

I've brought this up numerous times in these discussions where the claim is that Sullivan always shoots his clients' animals for them. Yep, in his videos, he often does shoot first in the follow up or at least at the same time as the client. And he's vilified for it. My good friend Dave Fulson, along with his partner, Tim, of Safari Classics, produce what I consider to be some of the best African hunting videos around. Some of their footage has some interesting comparisons however.

Check out the Boddington on Buffalo video. In it, you'll see highly respected PH Andrew Dawson do exactly the same thing. The video has several wounded buffalo follow up sequences. You'll be surprised by the number of times in that video where Dawson fires the first shot at the wounded buff during the follow ups. You'll also notice the number of times he fires a split second after the client does on the initial shot, as "insurance". In fact, it's been awhile since I watched it but I believe he does this on every hunt he guides on the video with the exception of the 2 buff taken by Boddington himself. Has anyone here accused Dawson of shooting the clients' animals for them?

A little more. Ivan Carter. Highly regarded on this forum. Yet on Boddington on Elephant, there is a very bizarre sequence where he is guiding a fellow who wears a tin foil lined ball cap. That in itself is strange but the bizarre part is right after the client drops the bull with a close up frontal brain shot, Ivan leads the client as they run and jump up on top of the downed elephant's head whereby Ivan instructs the client to shoot straight down, between his feet, into the elephant's head for the insurance shot. Then they congratulate each other while standing on the head. Is that abhorrent hunting behavior? Anyone called Ivan out for it? How many episodes are there where Ivan presses tuskless cows to the point of inducing a charge so as to get good video footage? I do know for a fact that that little tidbit has been discussed here before but I don't remember it being directed toward Ivan personally.

Many of the same guys who claim Sullivan's method of immediately walking up to a wounded buffalo to see if it will charge have absolutely no objection to the time tested and approved method of sitting down for a 30 minute smoke break to allow the wounded buff to "stiffen up" prior to going in after it. Sullivan has argued that his method actually dispatches the animal quicker. Truth? At least plausible so I give him a pass on this issue. I understand others may not. It's debatable.

Here's some hard truth boys. Most of us who have been inspired to take a rifle to Africa have been influenced by flawed men who embellished the story or somehow found a way to be noticed above and beyond their contemporaries. Hemingway - a drunk who committed suicide. Ruark - a drunk who died of liver failure. Surely no one here would ever contemplate that Ruark embellished his stories? Right? I mean, when is the last time you owed a Buffalo money? Do you really think a buffalo looks at you with contempt? To do so would insinuate that the animal is capable of rational thought! As in "Choosing how he is to die"! Capstick? A fraud? It's been debated here many times. But he sure captured the fancy of many with stories with intriguing names like "Death in the Long Grass".

Many of the ivory hunters we all admire were poachers, pure and simple. Either by today's standards and often by the standards of the day in which they operated. Foran, Nyschens, Taylor, even Bell. Yet we give all of them a pass, even Nyschens who practiced poaching relatively recently. None of them embraced the Conservation through Hunting mentality.

The fact is that like Sullivan, all of these men were responsible for generating interest in hunting the continent and also like Sullivan, they all had less than perfect methods by which they accomplished this influence.

These Sullivan threads are always a source of great entertainment for me. It's entertaining to watch the level of hysteria the anti Sullivan crowd generates as they spool up in their righteous indignation and claims of moral superiority by standing against Sullivan's so called "repugnant" hunting methods. Entertaining that is, right up to the point that the vitriol causes a highly influential man to make false insinuations of legal violations that can ruin a good man's life. I will also say Cal went over the line with some of the insults, even "said with a smile" as a parody. I would hope both parties, and respective camps for that matter, would take a couple of steps back and cooler heads would prevail.

quote:

Originally posted by Njati:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Njati:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Let's be real here. Saeed's hatred for Sullivan is long established. His vitriol on this particular thread to that end demonstrate nothing short of a loss of personal composure, regardless of whether you are a fan or a foe of Sullivan.

Cal listed the name of the licensed PH. I'm sure the paperwork is all in order as such and the PH was present in the field and with the hunting party the entire time.

But the real point I'm making is that when the man who runs one of the, if not THE No. 1 hunting forums, and specifically African hunting forums, starts using his position of influence to possibly induce a trumped up (pardon the term) charge against Cal, a charge that could irreparably ruin the man's life for good, solely based on his hatred of a man in camp, with no proof that any violation actually occurred, well I say that has a chilling effect.

So Saeed has broached the subject of a Lacy Act Violation. My question is, is that all he's done or intends to do? I'm sure he knows people of influence that could cause this issue to go further than a simple post on Cal's thread. What are his intentions along those lines? From his responses on this thread so far, I'm not sure the level of vindictiveness to do so is beyond him.

I think it’s safe to say that he didn’t take well to being called a midget

I'm not sure why you would quote me in your statement. I never called Saeed a midget.

In fact, I stated the opposite. I stated that it is a cause for concern when a man of his stature, as administrator of the premiere African hunting forum lets his hatred for one person (Sullivan) drive a level of vitriol that would insinuate that a well respected member (Cal) is guilty of a Lacy Act violation simply because they hunted out of the same camp at the same time and Cal purchased a hunt based on the fact that Sullivan would in fact be present.

Before the righteous indignation gets even further out of hand, let's consider a few things, shall we?

I've brought this up numerous times in these discussions where the claim is that Sullivan always shoots his clients' animals for them. Yep, in his videos, he often does shoot first in the follow up or at least at the same time as the client. And he's vilified for it. My good friend Dave Fulson, along with his partner, Tim, of Safari Classics, produce what I consider to be some of the best African hunting videos around. Some of their footage has some interesting comparisons however.

Check out the Boddington on Buffalo video. In it, you'll see highly respected PH Andrew Dawson do exactly the same thing. The video has several wounded buffalo follow up sequences. You'll be surprised by the number of times in that video where Dawson fires the first shot at the wounded buff during the follow ups. You'll also notice the number of times he fires a split second after the client does on the initial shot, as "insurance". In fact, it's been awhile since I watched it but I believe he does this on every hunt he guides on the video with the exception of the 2 buff taken by Boddington himself. Has anyone here accused Dawson of shooting the clients' animals for them?

A little more. Ivan Carter. Highly regarded on this forum. Yet on Boddington on Elephant, there is a very bizarre sequence where he is guiding a fellow who wears a tin foil lined ball cap. That in itself is strange but the bizarre part is right after the client drops the bull with a close up frontal brain shot, Ivan leads the client as they run and jump up on top of the downed elephant's head whereby Ivan instructs the client to shoot straight down, between his feet, into the elephant's head for the insurance shot. Then they congratulate each other while standing on the head. Is that abhorrent hunting behavior? Anyone called Ivan out for it? How many episodes are there where Ivan presses tuskless cows to the point of inducing a charge so as to get good video footage? I do know for a fact that that little tidbit has been discussed here before but I don't remember it being directed toward Ivan personally.

Many of the same guys who claim Sullivan's method of immediately walking up to a wounded buffalo to see if it will charge have absolutely no objection to the time tested and approved method of sitting down for a 30 minute smoke break to allow the wounded buff to "stiffen up" prior to going in after it. Sullivan has argued that his method actually dispatches the animal quicker. Truth? At least plausible so I give him a pass on this issue. I understand others may not. It's debatable.

Here's some hard truth boys. Most of us who have been inspired to take a rifle to Africa have been influenced by flawed men who embellished the story or somehow found a way to be noticed above and beyond their contemporaries. Hemingway - a drunk who committed suicide. Ruark - a drunk who died of liver failure. Surely no one here would ever contemplate that Ruark embellished his stories? Right? I mean, when is the last time you owed a Buffalo money? Do you really think a buffalo looks at you with contempt? To do so would insinuate that the animal is capable of rational thought! As in "Choosing how he is to die"! Capstick? A fraud? It's been debated here many times. But he sure captured the fancy of many with stories with intriguing names like "Death in the Long Grass".

Many of the ivory hunters we all admire were poachers, pure and simple. Either by today's standards and often by the standards of the day in which they operated. Foran, Nyschens, Taylor, even Bell. Yet we give all of them a pass, even Nyschens who practiced poaching relatively recently. None of them embraced the Conservation through Hunting mentality.

The fact is that like Sullivan, all of these men were responsible for generating interest in hunting the continent and also like Sullivan, they all had less than perfect methods by which they accomplished this influence.

These Sullivan threads are always a source of great entertainment for me. It's entertaining to watch the level of hysteria the anti Sullivan crowd generates as they spool up in their righteous indignation and claims of moral superiority by standing against Sullivan's so called "repugnant" hunting methods. Entertaining that is, right up to the point that the vitriol causes a highly influential man to make false insinuations of legal violations that can ruin a good man's life. I will also say Cal went over the line with some of the insults, even "said with a smile" as a parody. I would hope both parties, and respective camps for that matter, would take a couple of steps back and cooler heads would prevail.

Sorry Todd, I didn’t mean to say that you had referred to him as a midget, what I meant was that maybe the fact that he was called a midget in an earlier post by Cal has brought about his desire to bring up the Lacy Act and it’s violation. Maybe it touched a nerve somewhere for him to actually mention the lacy act and it’s violation.

I can speak from my experiences in Zambia and there are a lot of operators who have hunts booked in their areas by clients and PHs from abroad that use local PHs to ‘sit in’ and conform with the law. I feel that since this is Mark Sullivan involved it has been blown out of proportion just as everything else is with regards to him.

This issue of foreign PHs without licences who hide behind local PHs and hunt in their areas should not be brought up as it is a seriously smelly can of worms and a lot of people would get exposed who are reputable outfitters and PHs on this forum.

I feel as though it is justified when other PHs do it but anything that MS does, right or wrong, takes a different meaning and is blown right out of proportion!

quote:

Because it specifically said HUNT WITH MARK SULLIVAN!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Because it specifically said HUNT WITH MARK SULLIVAN!

Saeed you must be a lot different than some folks, but many people when describing an activity they were involved in such as hunting or fishing or whatever will include everyone in the party, even if that person spent the whole time sitting on their ass in camp.

They were considered being on the hunt/fishing trip, even though they never left camp.

Lora has been with me on several of my elk hunts with me but with the exception of one time when we put in for her a cow tag. she never left camp.

I am beginning to think the whole report with the inclusion of Mark Sullivan being along was designed to see you go totally ballistic.

Everyone on here knows of your hatred of the man, I just don't think they knew the level of that hatred.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Because it specifically said HUNT WITH MARK SULLIVAN!

Saeed you must be a lot different than some folks, but many people when describing an activity they were involved in such as hunting or fishing or whatever will include everyone in the party, even if that person spent the whole time sitting on their ass in camp.

They were considered being on the hunt/fishing trip, even though they never left camp.

Lora has been with me on several of my elk hunts with me but with the exception of one time when we put in for her a cow tag. she never left camp.

I am beginning to think the whole report with the inclusion of Mark Sullivan being along was designed to see you go totally ballistic.

Everyone on here knows of your hatred of the man, I just don't think they knew the level of that hatred.

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gentlemen:
Here is my buffalo hunt with Mark Sullivan. However, you will get a slightly shorter version as a new magazine, Africa’s Sportsman, wants me to be a regular contributor in all things double. (Rifles, guys, not breasts).

I spent five days at Basie Kuhn’s Haakdoorn Safaris ranch/farm. It was a living stage play with the actors being:

Mark Sullivan—PH and SA tour guide.
Cal Pappas—hunter from Alaska.
Basie Kuhn—owner of Haakdoorn Safaris.
Angela—Basie’s lovely wife.
Basie and Angela’s three daughters—Chene’ (17), Shayla (14), Sheena (10).
Johann Biewenga—farm manager and SA PH registered for both plains and dangerous game.
Joey—Johann’s lovely wife
Stefan Fouche’—1/3 owner of the African’s Sportsman magazine, there to get the story.
Andrew Tolmay—camera man and 1/3 owner of the AS magazine, there to video the hunt.
Clarence Voyles


Do you have a problem reading? if not read read this again,maybe you missed it the first time around,Cal clearly states that Mark was the PH on this hunt!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Because it specifically said HUNT WITH MARK SULLIVAN!

Saeed you must be a lot different than some folks, but many people when describing an activity they were involved in such as hunting or fishing or whatever will include everyone in the party, even if that person spent the whole time sitting on their ass in camp.

They were considered being on the hunt/fishing trip, even though they never left camp.

Lora has been with me on several of my elk hunts with me but with the exception of one time when we put in for her a cow tag. she never left camp.

I am beginning to think the whole report with the inclusion of Mark Sullivan being along was designed to see you go totally ballistic.

Everyone on here knows of your hatred of the man, I just don't think they knew the level of that hatred.

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gentlemen:
Here is my buffalo hunt with Mark Sullivan. However, you will get a slightly shorter version as a new magazine, Africa’s Sportsman, wants me to be a regular contributor in all things double. (Rifles, guys, not breasts).

I spent five days at Basie Kuhn’s Haakdoorn Safaris ranch/farm. It was a living stage play with the actors being:

Mark Sullivan—PH and SA tour guide.
Cal Pappas—hunter from Alaska.
Basie Kuhn—owner of Haakdoorn Safaris.
Angela—Basie’s lovely wife.
Basie and Angela’s three daughters—Chene’ (17), Shayla (14), Sheena (10).
Johann Biewenga—farm manager and SA PH registered for both plains and dangerous game.
Joey—Johann’s lovely wife
Stefan Fouche’—1/3 owner of the African’s Sportsman magazine, there to get the story.
Andrew Tolmay—camera man and 1/3 owner of the AS magazine, there to video the hunt.
Clarence Voyles


Do you have a problem reading? if not read read this again,maybe you missed it the first time around,Cal clearly states that Mark was the PH on this hunt!!

No, he does not state that. I read it very clearly.

Cal clearly states Mark is a PH and SA tour guide.

Does not say he's a SA PH. He is in fact a Tanzania PH. Fact. He's a PH. Doesn't mean he THE PH for this hunt.

He also states Johann is the registered SA PH.

I do not see where it states Mark is the PH conducting the hunt. You are reading something into Cal's post that simply isn't there.

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
I am surprised he doesn't sell his dirty safari shirts too...sorry...could not keep myself..

quote:

Originally posted by 2PIPE:
I’ve read the thread with interest.
MS is a PH and was in attendance. He was also nominated as the SA tour guide.
The SA PH was also noted as Johann Biewenga.
The ranch owner was there as well.

I just don’t see any issue of illegality in this at all......

Either in the hunt offer or the way it was run.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Yeah I'm afraid I don't go for the hero worship stuff. I mean take a photo with him if you want. The photo's I have of Dylan, Walter, the crew and I around my buff are ones I'll treasure for the rest of my life. But to use a photo of MS with your trophy, and framed no less, (I do hope the hunter is in it as well ) as a selling point makes me laugh.

Now don't get me wrong, if MS started pissing bourbon and shitting gold nuggets I'll worship the hell out of him, but until then.....

ps.....do you get to pick the frame or does MS do that?

quote:

Originally posted by AR MAN:
What do you mean by using two id’s regarding “2PIPE”?
Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think Saeed has a point as well.It would be unfair for other safari companies if they had to play by the rules and only use a PH from SA.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AR MAN:
What do you mean by using two id’s regarding “2PIPE”?
Thanks

2pipe and nickh is one person.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I think Saeed has a point as well.It would be unfair for other safari companies if they had to play by the rules and only use a PH from SA.

It is a lot worse in this case.

Shawn advertises hunts with Mark Sullivan right in the open, on the Internet, knowing full well Sullivan is not licensed to conduct hunts in South Africa.

The farm owner is right there with him, as he allows him to do so.

It does not get any lower in business dealings than this.

It is just plain disgusting!

What is more, this was brought up by me before, but Shawn continues to ply his illegal trade!

Who would want to do business with an individual who blatantly sells illegal hunts??

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AR MAN:
What do you mean by using two id’s regarding “2PIPE”?
Thanks

2pipe and nickh is one person.

Good to know,now maybe he will no longer post hunt reports under both names,the term slime bag comes to mind