I have been a Professional Hunter and Outfitter in the Eastern Cape of South Africa for quite some time now. It would be very interesting if you guys could elaborate some more on tipping of Professional Hunters. Do you as clients feel that it is neccessary to tip your PH or does it depend on how you were treated on your hunt. I recently guided a client and we managed to harvest some trophies scoring quite high in Roland Ward and I feel that I was a bit screwed when it came to receiving my tip. It almost feels that the amount that you received was worked out well in advance. Is my assumption correct, What bothers me is that you might have a client that harvests good representative animals and he will tip you more than the client that took a couple of Roland Ward animals. Another topic that has come to my attention is the moment when you receive your tip, it is a very uncomfortable for us as PH's and I don't know if it is uncomfortable for you as clients. What makes it even more interesting is that the foreigh currency is always rolled up and handed over through a hand shake. I really don't know how you guys feel about tipping but is there no other way of handing your PH his tip, perhaps put it in a envelope or something like that. I know PHASA wants to implement a system where the client hands the Outfitter the tip and he hands it to the PH after the client has left. I don't agree with this system as not all PH's are very good friends with the Oufitter concerned so a matter of trust will then come in the effect. The Outfitter might have not made as much money with the particular client and he might just help himself with a portion of the tip that he has to give to his PH. Guys I am not saying that this is or will happen, this is merely an assumption. Obviously it is always great to receive a tip from your client because it does help to pay the bills or maintain hunting vehicles which take a hammering in ten days of hunting. I think I will leave it at that but I will appreciate your feedback regarding the above, I think there are alot of guys(clients) out there that often ponder on the above.

What a volitle subject this tipping business with as many opions and ideas as there are hunters and outfitters and PH's. Personally I hate tipping for anything, whether it for hunting or even going to a restuarant for a meal. No one is ever is ever happy with the amount of any tip, whether its the giver or the receiver. Personally if you think more money is needed/desired and the tip is relied upon to make ends meet, then charge more for the service (reasonably mind you now) and forgo the tip and various levels of a tip. High tipping costs the average guy more because then more is expected and disapointment is keen whhen the previous level of tip is not given/received. Having said that I do tip for services, but still hate the idea because everyones idea of the "right" tip amount is different. If Im paying for a service I should receive the full agreed upon service without consideration of how much of a "tip" Im going to give someone for that service. I suppose this doesn't answer the question posed here, but it only my 2 cents worht.

uzingela,

Welcome to the forum.

I am sure you will get quite a few different views on this subject, as it seems to crop up quite regularly here.

You have mentioned a number of points, which are so rediculous as to defy comprehension; at least as far as I am concerned.

1. Why should the amount of money given as a tip be tied to the size of the trophies taken? After all, in South Africa most outfitters probably know all the animals by name.

2. Why should you consider a tip as being requirement because your car has been used for the hunt?

I know many PH in South Africa use their own trucks, and they get paid for that in the daily fees they have agreed with the outfitter.

On all my hunts, whatever tip I have allocated is given to the man I have been dealing with right from the start - The Big Boss. He can decide who gets what according to what he has seen from their performance. This ammount is given to him at teh same time as the final bill is settled, so there is no embarassement of a few rolled up bank notes in a handshake.

At teh end of teh day, you have to remember it IS a TIP. This means whatever I consider is appropriate.

If at any time during my hunt I feel the subject of a tip gets brought up as a reminder, I can assure you I will leave no tip at all.

Luckily, all the people I have ever hunted with, being the gentlemen they are, have never, ever brought this subject up.

In fact, at one camp where 8 of us spent a week hunting, where the service was far better than any 5-Star hotel I have ever stayed in. I asked the PH how much tip I should leave for the staff. He said anything I deemed appropriate. I mentioned a some of money, and he very politely told me to cut that in half, and that would be more than enough.

Hello uzingela and welcome to the forum.
I agree with saeed, a tip is just that a tip, and should not be expected or included. If I am happy with the services rendered then the tip is commensurate with that, if i'm not then the tip or lack thereof reflects that.

As for your previous hunters some people are just more appreciative than others, or they interpreted thier hunts differently.

Tips are a personal choice. I know there are guides based on % of cost and such...but I tip based on my current financial position, and how I feel the hunt was conducted. I realize that tips are very important to a PH but feel that they should not expect a specific amount at the end of a safari. My close friend in Africa tell me that most of the time he is tiped very well but sometimes people leave him nothing. He does admit that he prices his hunts to make money and a tip is extra.

I agree with Saeed. On my two trips, I left the money with the guy running the operation or the lead ph.

I tip based on service, effort and attitude. I do not care about the trophy size.

As far as amounts - I tipped as high as $1000 and as low as $50 (the $50 was to a ph that was lazy and arrogant in his dealings with my sons, who were each paying a full rate for a ph). That guy lasted one day, was asked to raise his attitude, said he thought he was fine - then I fired him via the Safari company owner. The PH that doubled up with my son and I got the extra big tip.

Tipping is a topic that brings out strong emotions and opinions.

Here is a link to our most recent discussion on this matter:

Tipping of PH and Staff

Regards,

Terry

If a guy is happy and overall has had a good safari, is 10% considered a decent tip? Please excuse the naive question, I am just a first timer who's trying to figure a budget. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by fairchase:
If a guy is happy and overall has had a good safari, is 10% considered a decent tip? Please excuse the naive question, I am just a first timer who's trying to figure a budget. Thanks.

Go to the link in my post above.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

I recently guided a client and we managed to harvest some trophies scoring quite high in Roland Ward and I feel that I was a bit screwed when it came to receiving my tip.

Did you put extra effort in locating this client's trophies or was it just the luck of the draw?

Did the client specifically request that he will only take R&W animals?

If you expect a bigger tip when you take R&W animals, will you be happy with a smaller tip when you take below average animals?

As there is no definitive standard, you will find hunters who over tip, regardless of the quality of the animals, and some who will under tip, regardless of the quality of the animals. You are going to have to just average it out and see if you are satisfied, if not, perhaps look for another line of work.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by bisonhunter1:
What a volitle subject this tipping business with as many opions and ideas as there are hunters and outfitters and PH's. Personally I hate tipping for anything, whether it for hunting or even going to a restuarant for a meal. No one is ever is ever happy with the amount of any tip, whether its the giver or the receiver. Personally if you think more money is needed/desired and the tip is relied upon to make ends meet, then charge more for the service (reasonably mind you now) and forgo the tip and various levels of a tip. High tipping costs the average guy more because then more is expected and disapointment is keen whhen the previous level of tip is not given/received. Having said that I do tip for services, but still hate the idea because everyones idea of the "right" tip amount is different. If Im paying for a service I should receive the full agreed upon service without consideration of how much of a "tip" Im going to give someone for that service. I suppose this doesn't answer the question posed here, but it only my 2 cents worht.

Amen, I agree with you 100%. Tipping is way out of hand as far as I am concerned whether it is the hair cut, dinner or a hunt.

quote:

, it is a very uncomfortable for us as PH's and I don't know if it is uncomfortable for you as clients.

I agree with this even though I think I probably over tip (some outfitters may disagree ). This is why I always tell the PH at the airport "Hey, there is something extra for you in your gun safe" or "be sure to look REAL close in your glove box when you leave the airport". I left my last tip in the PH's knife sheath that was sitting atop his fridge. I dislike tangible monetary exchanges anyway but particularly in the realm of hunting as they seem to devalue the experience. As an aside, I don't think TIPs are automatic and, ESPECIALLY in South Africa, shouldn't be tied even loosely to the size of the trophies. I hunt for the experience, NOT horn length. I might take premium B&C or RW trophies on a hunt but if the experience sucks or the PH is a jerk, NO TIP!

JMHO,

John

Personally, I find the concept of linking the tip to the size of the animals disturbing. I value the quality of the hunt - and that isn't dependent on the length of the horns.

I took a job years ago guiding upland bird hunters. The owner told me on the first day that he didn't allow tipping - that the practice would only insure that the repeat customers who tipped the most would get preferential treatment (best dog, best vehicle, best area, etc.) on return trips. That really let the wind out of my sails as I took the low paying job with the anticipation of making up the difference in (even average) tips. Looking back on it, the policy was not a bad one - just the practice of paying the help so poorly!

It would sure be great if there were some hard and fast rules on tipping. I usually go 20% or more at a restaurant cause in my youth I worked at restaurants and know how hard those people work.

I always try to tip about 10% of the hunt cost IN CASH. I also make sure to pick up the tap if we go for dinner or drinks. If I leave a gift, it is in addition to the cash. Lets face it, a guide can only use so many knives, but cash is always needed.

When I do tip, Ive done it in an envelope or by shaking hands, it doesnt matter to me.

I do some guiding here at a game ranch and get tipped on occasion. Generally I find the tips I'm getting are about $20-$50 on a $600 hunt, less than 5%. And I make $100.00 a day guide fee. Sure I grumble quietly if a group of 10 guys shoots $6000.00 worth of animals and leaves me a $50.00 but that's life. Especially when its -20 and we have to field dress, skin and quarter the things while the client sips a beer. (hmm maybe Im not too good of a guide?)

Im headed to RSA in 07 and my daily rate and trophy fees should be near $8,000.00, so my ph will probably get $800.00 or so.

Hugh

My observations on tipping are only mine. Having said that I think as others have stated that tipping based on trophy size is just wrong. In my mind if the PH and crew have obviously worked hard, the area is a good one and the camp fine I should leave a nice tip.

I do think in reality what happens too often if a safari has been a struggle and the animals are not getting in the salt regardless of how hard the PH worked his tip will often be less. Too many of us are goal oriented and a great experience is not enough

I also am in agreement that when people unsolicited suggest a tip amount I'm apt to give less. I once was presented a list of camp help 23 strong and asked to write down how much each one should get. I had a number in mind for the camp staff but when I saw the list I reduced the amount and gave the tip amount to the PH to distribute. Another time it was recommended that I leave all money other than the game scout's tip at the safari office and work out the crew tip once the safari was over and I was back at the office. When I got to camp the PH talked about extra tips for the trackers etc. and when we left the camp it was obvious the hunting crew expected something more which they didn't get.

I tip well but I don't expect to hear stories about the camp crew revolting over tips or any other discussion about tips period unless I ask about it. I like tipping but it should be a gift given and not an expected supplement to wages.

Mark

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by fairchase:
If a guy is happy and overall has had a good safari, is 10% considered a decent tip? Please excuse the naive question, I am just a first timer who's trying to figure a budget. Thanks.


Go to the link in my post above.

Thanks Terry...

Hi,

Out of interest, do any South African hunters who use your services tip?

Does anyone know if the old-time hunters left tips? No mention in my books, although they had a thing about leaving guns behind...

uzingela

Tipping is not a cultural thing in Australia. It is virtually unknown.

I never even considered tipping to go with the term "Professional" as in Professional Hunter. Never tipped any other sort of professional before.

I have and usually do give some sort of gift and almost always some cash to the staff.

If I think what I give will not be appreciated I won't bother. It is bad manners to show ill feeling for a gift and no black staff member I have tipped has ever not been thankful. The best ones don't even look at what they have been given (till afterwards. )

If "tipping" is to be subsitute wages the outfitter should have told me before hand so I could book with someone else who pays his staff fairly.

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
..... and some who will under tip .....

I've never understood how can under-tip when there are NO hard and fast rules. It is what the individual wishes to give and not up to the subjective judgement of some Mr Money Bags.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by T.Carr:
..... and some who will under tip .....

I've never understood how can under-tip when there are NO hard and fast rules. It is what the individual wishes to give and not up to the subjective judgement of some Mr Money Bags.

It's the same as going to a restaurant in the US and, upon receiving adequate service, one leaves a 5% tip.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Does anyone know if the old-time hunters left tips? No mention in my books, although they had a thing about leaving guns behind...

In a 1956 article in Field & Stream, Robert Ruark said that "the cost of liquor (for the entire safari), hotel expenses in Nairobi ($6.00 per day including meals), clothes bought in Nairobi and tips should add about $200 to the safari cost. You do not tip your white hunter."


Regards,

Terry

You PH's should realize that the average american hunter in africa is NOT rich, and has probably saved up for years for the trip.
Here's my advise...be humble and give me your best effort, and I will give you a great tip. You don't have to kiss my ass and wait on me hand and foot, but be a good companion. If you ask me for a tip I will be really put off. Your vehicle is your problem...I have my own problems back home, don't cry to me about yours!

quote:

You PH's should realize that the average american hunter in africa is NOT rich, and has probably saved up for years for the trip.
Here's my advise...be humble and give me your best effort, and I will give you a great tip. You don't have to kiss my ass and wait on me hand and foot, but be a good companion. If you ask me for a tip I will be really put off. Your vehicle is your problem...I have my own problems back home, don't cry to me about yours!

Well put Wolfgar...that not only sums up the boat I'm in, it also very much states my outlook on the subject.

quote:

Tipping is not a cultural thing in Australia. It is virtually unknown.

Having lived in Oz for 2 1/2 years I would have to agree EXCEPT in Sydney and Melbourne when a cab driver or waiter in a high end restaurant hears an American accent.

quote:

Originally posted by uzingela:
Do you as clients feel that it is neccessary to tip your PH

Yes, 10% of the daily rate for a good safari.

I struggle with the amount on every hunt I go on. I was at a deer hunt in Michigan last fall and it was a major topic of discussion. General consensus was there was no general consensus. I try to put myself in the PH's shoes and imagine what I would think is an appropriate thank you for an enjoyable time. When I feel it is an obligation, I'll stop tipping.
Since I view it as a "thank you" I take a card for the PH and write some thoughts down and include the money. I always ask what is appropriate for the staff and let the PH do the division. I include this in a card marked "staff" and write a few lines of appreciation.
I don't believe in a gift item. These guys have bills just like the rest of us. I have given personal items for extraordinary service but it was in addition to cash.
I tend to give more more when I have a young PH working for the Safari Company. If I am hunting with the owner of the company, I tend to be a little more demanding, and my thank yous are a litle less generous.

I feel that around 10% of the daily rate of your trip is a good estimate. When I was in RSA, I gave my PH a new Leupold scope that I brought along as an extra. He had an older scope that was giving him problems, I asked him if he would rather have cash or the scope. He took the scope without question. The scope was worth about $450, and I was going to give him a little more than that in cash. I had a great hunt with a few animals that made high up in the books so I was happy.

I love reading this thread! How about Hughiam, who is gonna tip 10% of TOTAL HUNT COSTS(including trophy fees)! Man, your PH is gonna LOOOOVVEEE YOU! Conversely, we have people asserting the impossibility of "under-tipping". Look, whether we like it or not, tips are built into the wage structure of waitresses and PHs alike and there are unwritten rules of proper behavior. Someone who tips a waitress 5% on a $10 breakfast tab is a total dick plain and simple. Similarly, if you tip a PH $1000 USD on a 21 day elephant hunt then you'd better plan on hunting with another guy if you ever go back for lion.

JMHO,

John

Sorry John but i have to disagree. To me the PH is the same as the outfitter, and i don't tip the outfitter. Will tip the remainder of the crew accordingly.

This is a much bantered about topic which has no real end in sight. The tip in my humble opinion should be directly from hunter to PH, and never through a middle man... talk about hard feelings! WOW what a recipe for disaster. It is always the descretion of the hunter based upon his experience and ability to give what he feels is proper, and Lord knows that is a wide area as well. To a man who has quite litteraly scrimped and saved for years for a once in a lifetime experience to cough up a major amount of dollar gratitude is not the same as Daddy Warbucks laying some sunshine upon the masses. The PH is not the only one who may be trying to put kids through the university. Sometimes I have felt like I gave too much, and sometimes I know that I did. Once I gave my all and felt as though I would not be welcome back... I didn't have any desire to return after the greed display. If the PH is counting the hunters networth and figuring he's due a portion of that number he is way wide of the target and the concept of gratitude.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Look, whether we like it or not, tips are built into the wage structure of waitresses and PHs alike and there are unwritten rules of proper behavior. Someone who tips a waitress 5% on a $10 breakfast tab is a total dick plain and simple.

Interesting to see the Communist still hasn't understood the need for an adequate wage system rather than the a "slave"/servant based system of inadequate ad-hoc remuneration based on a "voluntary" service payment. Something done away with down here in the 1930's.

So if the "US waitress" serving a $10 breakfast is crap, I suppose you still "tip" her? She might yell at you and make you embarrassed otherwise.

***

dbltap

Tipping waiters, and taxi drivers in Sydney or Melbourne? My God man you are brain washed! Most of them have only been in Australia for a few years anyway and want to make a million to import the rest of the 'tribe' in a few short years. BTW I've seen people in Egypt ask for "tips" for a ferry ride across the Nile, because a bus load of Yank tourists got on. They each handed out a dollar or two, even five bucks to the joker who positioned himself at the gang plank. Because it was "expected". He hadn't actually done anything the whole trip. The joker made a killing . Funny thing on the way over in the morning, no one asked for any "tips", I guess there were only Aussie, French, Italian, British accents in the morning . I do remember saying "thank you" to "joker" on the way off the ferry after the Yank tourist bus load had finished emptying their wallets of small notes.

Tipping is such a good system there seems to be a permanent thread asking about it on AR somewhere all the time.

I never use a booking agent .When I book with the outfitter I tell them to expect NO tips.Just tell me what the total cost is. If I can aford it fine if not I will find another outfitter. I am not a cash cow to be milked

NitroX

I tipped no one! But damn some of them got surly as hell when they figured the Yank was not going to part with a tip!

On the other hand I probably over tip in the states and to fishing and hunting guides with whom I have enjoyed their company. If they are a prick then I don't care what the result, they get no cash.

I have an interesting survey put out by The Hunting Report that I posted a link to a while back. I have the survey on my computer but can't find the link on the net. If anyone wants to see it PM me.

Personally I wouldn't tip by shaking hands with someone and giving them a wad of cash in the process. Either an envelope or just hand them the money if no envelope available.

I definitely agree that if a tip is brought up by the PH it can be quite off putting and would definitely reconsider the amount afterwards.

People should give what they feel is fair and deserved while at the same time being affordable for the hunter.

Nitro,

I am a labor economist for Christ's sake so YES I understand it. However, the need for an employer to pay adequate wages doesn't eliminate the fact that waitresses make SHIT right NOW. Very recently in Utah, the minimum wage was like $2.50 for waitresses while it was $5.50 for everyone else. How good does the service have to be to warrant giving the girl $2 tip on a $10 breakfast tab. As they ask in Reservoir Dogs, do you want her to get under the table and suck your d(CK?

As for Egypt...I now know what things SHOULD cost and sometimes pay only that. Other times I consider paying the "gringo tax" to simply be charity. Sometimes I pay cab drivers 10x what I should just because I like the guy and wanna make his day. Its a good feeling but simultaneously sad that one can do that for less than $4. Anyway, I am surprised you would think Americans are silly for tipping the guy a few bucks when he makes MAYBE $100 US per month. Did these people get ripped off? Is the $1 or $2 of any real consequence (other than to the felluca driver for whom it was likely of significant consequence?)

JMHO,

John

quote:

Originally posted by two canoes:
To me the PH is the same as the outfitter, and i don't tip the outfitter. Will tip the remainder of the crew accordingly.

SERIOUSLY?!?!?! wow.

Thanks to everybody that has replied so swiftly, I appologise if I have offended anyone with my post. Thanks Saeed for the welcome and Terry the Roland Ward animals that the client managed to harvest was purely the luck of the draw. It is always great to have lady luck on your side. I have noticed that alot of the members are stating that you do not have to tip a professional (doctor, dentist etc.) I however feel that there is big difference between pulling a tooth, medical checkup and finding 12 respectable animals in 10 days. Maybe the term Professional Hunter should be changed to Hunting Guide. I have never brought up the topic of tipping whilst hunting with a client, I am quite dumb founded that some of you have experienced this. I think in this case the outfitter should be informed on the behaviour of the PH, beleive me I don't think that the particular PH will ever be used again by the Outfitter.

Quote:
"You don't have to kiss my ass and wait on me hand and foot"

I know I am going completely off the topic but what do you as a hunting client expect from your PH? I know there will be alot of mixed feelings on this.

As some of the other members said: view a tip for what it is - a TIP (i.e. a voluntary gratuity based on the service that the client received). If you have a bad relationship with your Outfitter and don't trust him to give you the full tip you shouldn't hunt for him.

When clients ask me about an appropriate tip for PH's that hunt for me my advice to them is to give what they think is fair - and give it to them directly. Should they prefer to give it to me; I'll be sure to give the PH what was given to me and even more if in my view the tip was small in relation to the cost of the hunt. (I feel that 10% of the daily rate is fair)

The size of the tip should however never be related to the size of trophies taken but rather to the experience that the client had during his hunt with his PH - linked to the client's financial abilities. It does seem out of place if a client spends $10K on a hunt and then leaves a $20.00 tip for the PH though.

I believe that it is fair to leave something for the camp staff and when asked I recommend an amount of up to $25.00 per day. Due to the nature of the business, clients interaction with staff is often limited to the tracker and lady cleaning their rooms so they do not realize that there are other staff members who works as hard to make the safari successful. For this reason I recommend that clients give anything they want to leave for the staff to me so that I can equally distribute this to the staff in camp. The only reason for doing this is to prevent animosity between workers and to be fair to everyone.

Some of the clients whom I've personally guided did not leave anything for the camp staff but did give me a tip equal to 10% of the total hunt. In these cases I have always distributed the relevant portions of the tip to those who played a role in making the hunt successful.

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:
As some of the other members said: view a tip for what it is - a TIP (i.e. a voluntary gratuity based on the service that the client received)...(I feel that 10% of the daily rate is fair).

...so anything bellow the 10 % would be unfair? Now we are puting a tag on a client fairity regarding it on behalf of a tip - thats not fair.

I have been guiding clients here in EU - I have always put a price on me by myself - never let a tip to set my price - nore did my staff - I also let my clients know in advance that tips are not expected and that staff is my concern not theirs. Client is a client not a tip giver. Gentlemen behave like professionals.

Mouse 93
Well said