Finally convinced my wife to join me on a hunt. Went to Namibia and hunted with Frank Heger. She became interested in shooting a bit, then after some time in the bush, she wanted to hunt. She ended up hunting 3 half days (full days?....too much work!).

She used the PH's heavy 8mm off sticks for a nice big gemsbok bull, scored 87.4 inches total, about 44 a side.

Weird, when she was stalking this bull, I sat near the truck with a tracker for about an hour - then heard the shot. The feeling was odd- a little nervous for her, a little excited. After the shot, we roll up and she is all proud and calm and excited and a little uneasy, and I recognize the exact feelings I have had myself after a successful stalk. Very cool.

Now she is hooked!




A happy girl who now loves Africa:

Great Gemsbuck. I wish my wife would have tried hunting while we were ther. Congratulations.

404Jeff: Your lady is far too attractive to be referred to by the male gender of "hunter," but she is definetly a "huntress!" great pictures. My wife went with me also, but she is not a huntress. Take care, jorge

Thanks Jorge

I enjoyed your published article and photos as well.

Well, thanks also, she is a babe.

Ok, so I am an overachiever in the wife dept. But seriously, she was tons of fun to travel with and sit around the fire with, and I saved lots of $$$ in telephone calls.

We have 3 children so getting them set so we can go off and have fun is a bit of a chore, but that is the plan next year.

She was anti-hunting until she got out and tried it, so that is settled.

Hoping for 21 days in Tanzania with her next year!

404: just launched a PM your way. We also have three children ( twins!) and they both start college this year. The oldest is just about done with nursing school. I'm pretty proud of my "babe" also, so in that regard we are both very fortunate! jorge

Congratulations, that is one big gemsbok, and a fine moment for both you and your wife.

What's the rifle?

Congratulations! It is so good to see the African experienced shared!

My wife doesn't hunt, however she was more than eager to share my African hunt with me. All I have to do is mention Africa and she's got her bag packed!

Great to see my sisters, "huntresses", out there. As I tell other women, "It really is a lot of fun" and we can't let you guys have ALL the fun!!!!

Congratulations on the Gemsbok!

Best regards, D. Nelson

404

You've been pulling my leg all this time. What happened to my wife is afraid of this, that and everything? A metamorphesis in progress I suspect.

Tanzania for 21 days? Hmmm! I know a luxury operation that your wife would love.

Mark

Hey Mark

Send me the info on Tanzania.

She WAS afraid of everything: bugs, long airplane flights, snakes, witch doctors...but a few things happened. All her girlfriends chastised her for not going with me on my trips to Africa. Then she got on a Namibia site and loved the travel reports and views of the desert. Then she realized she did not want another 7-10 days alone with me off hunting.

As you may recall, we were working up a trip with you and Allan for leopard in Namibia, but the house sale came up. We had tickets already purchased, so we opted for a shorter trip, with the intention of it being a half hunt-half sightseeing trip.

Once we got there, she was smitten, and decided she did NOT want to leave hunting to go the Estosha to "see" animals. She wanted to hunt them.

She was quite the perfectionist. She was depressed when she did not hit the bullseye at 100 yards while sighting the rifle. She was p/o'd when she made any extra noise while stalking. She wanted a BIG bull, etc.

Unfortunately, the first two days were an absolute disaster, as we booked short notice with a guy who gets some nice reviews here. He turned out to be a total ass, for reasons including, but not limited to:

1. His failure to tell us that he had another hunter in camp and would not guide us, despite assuring me that he was "absolutely free" due to cancellations

2. He did not have a PH for us to hunt with the for three of the first four days of the hunt

3. Excessive drinking on the PH's part, as well as his harassment and boorishness toward my wife.

We left after about 35 hours in camp- and after he basically extorted exorbitant fees from us before he would transport us back to Windhoek.

I contacted NAPHA immediately and spoke with Volker Grellman, who, I later learned is a legend of Namibian hunting. NAPHA gave us four choices of outfitters, and we ended up spending 3 days with Frank Heger, Past President of NAPHA for 8 years and an SCI Honorary Director for Africa.

He and his wife Goody were absolute dreams, very professional and Frank exhibited great with patience with my wife as a first time hunter.

I did meet with Ben Beytell, who is the Director of Parks and Wildlife Management Office of the Ministry of Environment and Tourism. He read our formal complaint.

He pulled my hunting license and advised me that the PH and not taken out a license for leopard or cheetah for me, despite offering them in emails, and hunting them while I was there (see below).

Ben also blew his top when I advised him the PH sent us out with hounds to look for cheetah and leopard spoor, with instructions to turn the dogs loose and call him on the radio, with only with his black tracker and a young man, not a PH to guide us.

Apparently hunting cheetah with dogs is verboten in Namibia, and akin to "trying to assassinate the President" as Mr. Grellman put it.

Ben Beytell also noted that the PH violated another rule when he sent us out to hunt without a PH, when, on the only full day of "hunting", I shot a warthog.


Ben Beytell told me he would bring the issue to the personal attention of the Minister of Environment and Tourism.

This ass clown PH has a great following here, and the other hunter in his camp posted here, sung his praises and said he could not wait to go back. Several others chimed in and said the guy was great. I booked with him based upon previous hunt reports and two conversations with people who hunted with him.

I guess the issue is, you have to know who you are talking to about references. In the day and one half we were there, the "hunting concessions" were full bore cattle farms, with multiple gates, fences and cattle around.

Pretty thick stuff, and the "concessions" were reached after about 30 minutes of driving on roads. He does have some land where his lodge is, but I did not the "loads" of game that others posted about.

I just think the other guys were first timers and impressed with everything, including the non-edible cooking.

The last straw was when, at the end of our first full day there, I asked him when he would have a PH. Wednesday, he says. What time? Wednesday night. Oh, so this is Monday and you will not have a PH until Thursday, says I? Well, it is not working out, we are leaving, says I. He then started raving at my wife at the fire, saying : "your husband only is leaving because you don't like hunting. Why can't you be a better wife and support him" etc. At dinner the second night, after we informed him we were leaving, he stated to all there "he and his wife are leaving because she does not like hunting" then he said something in Afrikaans to the young man and they both laughed heartily.

My wife stood up and left the table, and I followed.

So this is Monday evening, and I tell him to total up our bill as we were leaving.

His bill was for one day full hunting, one non-hunting day, and five days full booking. He stated that although his PH was not available until Thursday, he had booked him for me and I had to pay. I asked what we were supposed to do until Thursday, and he said "sight see in Windhoek" or go off to the mountains with him and his other client- where he said he had a PH for us.

Well, we were not interested in any more of his BS promises, that there "will be a PH for your tomorrow". Nor were we interested in hunkering down in tents in the mountains.

I told him I would not pay the "PH" fees, and he said fine, they were leaving at 6 am the next morning and we would be alone in his camp. I paid just to keep my wife calm and things as non-confrontational as possible.

Then the complaint to NAPHA. We are waiting for the outcome of the Ministry's investigation
Yes, I am pissed. It took my wife two days in Windhoek to calm down. So we blew 4 days of our trip, by the time we sorted out a new PH.

II won't "name" the clown. I will happily post his name in the results of the Ministry's action- which looks to be suspension of his outfitter's license and PH license, when it occurs.

To all others, I recommend you only book with Namibian PHs who are reputable with local agents (MARK!), or on the highest referral, eg thru NAPHA.

Man, I am still pissed off about this, if I were alone, ok, no problem, but for this to happen with my wife with me.....oh well, she recovered and we had a nice time.

Sorry to vent, but not everything is peachy keen in Africa.

I did turn around and go back for a leopard hunt in early July, as I posted earlier, and that was a nice hunt.

404: Wow, that was a harrowing tale! what a nightmare! too bad you can't tell us who it is but I respect your privacy. I'm glad things worked out in the end . jorge

Who is this guy? If you are so pissed-off at him, why do you care about posting his name? Are you afraid of his reply? I'm NOT trying to pick a fight, but, let us know who this PH is so nobody else here will get screwed!

404

Obviously you and your wife are a ‘Class Act’ glad it worked out for you.

I hope the idiot i.e. PH is named at some point so others don’t have to suffer the same treatment.


Ian

yeah, no kidding.. If this guy is such a jerk off, why not let all of us on here be forewarned about him by letting us know WHO THE HELL HE IS!!! I sure as hell don't want that to happen to me if I was to book with this turd from the advise of others and then get stuck with that kind of doushe bag.. let the world know who he is!!

Wolfgar & Scottyboy

Two reasons I have not named him.

One, the discipline is ongoing and will grind its way to its conclusion, then there will be an independent fact finding undertaken and conclusions reached. I gave a sworn statement, and stated I would return at my own expense to testify at any hearings required.

Second, I see you two have been on this forum for a while. Don't you recall similar posts to mine about a PH, where all his minions pile on, and the whole thing disintegrates into mudslinging? I think it was Sheephunter, and another time JJ Miller, posted negative reports about somebody's favorite PH or some booking agent's favorite, and in the end, both the posters ended up getting maligned, bar-B-qued and hounded no end for all their "shortcomings".

The first, JJ Miller, who I do not know, but through a mutual friend who has guided him, is said to be a peach of a guy. Nevertheless, after he posted a negative report, he was shit on by all comers, accused of being a drinker, unreasonabale, etc. See the link:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=323104603#323104603

The second was re Pierre Van Tonder. God help you if you fart out loud about someone else's favorite PH. Seems Sheephunter should wiped his ass with Charmin, and all would have been well. This particular thread went 42 pages and eventually was closed by moderators. See that thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/837102853

And this is only in the last 6 months.

So why bother? Are you, Wolfgar or Scottyboy, planning a hunt in Namibia? Are you not sure of your PH? If yes, reconsider and find someone you are sure of. If not, then I think it is purely entertainment value and "sport" for voyeurs.

I choose to post that there was a problem. It is being investigated officially. When the official inquiry is completed, and findings made by impartial entities, then all will know his name, and I won't have to have my name, reputation or woulda shoulda couldas bandied about.

If it doesn't suit you, please avoid this thread. But just look already- my thread has been up....2 hours...and already somebody is implying I am "afraid" of his response.

I have learned there are terrific guys on this forum, and there are assholes that just stir shit. I don't want to sink down into it. If there are some guys that are happy with him...fine. But there are quite a few, according to the Department of Wildlife, that have left his camp and filed complaints. Did it stop him? No, he is still operating.

Please see this thread for what it is, a near disaster and very unpleasant time for my sweet little wife, and the day was saved by NAPHA, Volker Grellman and Frank Heger, gentlemen who are recognized by all as being top notch, involved, ethical outfitters who have legion of satisfied clients and impeccable reputations.


Name him?....no thanks.

Jorge and ilw, thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate them. We had a few slepless nights in Windhoek, and I have had a few since then, getting wound up about this.

Short of knocking the guy out, my only recourse is to pursue things the slow, sure and proper way.

In the end, it is best.

404,
Please don't take my reply the wrong way...I understand your reasoning now, after reading your last, and you make perfect sense in the way you are going about it. I am not planning on Namibia this year, but did hunt there last year, and I definetly plan on going back. Just like to know what's going on with the PH's there, that's all.
Sorry for your bad experience, especially with your wife around to see it all.
Again, please don't take me the wrong way.

404:
I agree. If you trash a "Favorite" PH here, you will be beat severely about the head and face, by the old timers. I've been in a similar position you are in, and did the same thing you are doing. Wait.
Paybacks are fun!
It may take 2-3 years for the truth to come out, but eventually it will.
I've dealt with NAPHA before, and they are a good outfit. I'd be surprised if you do not receive satisfaction.
Good luck! Nail the sumbitch.

Sounds like a legit reason not to name names.. I respect that. There can be some world class shit slinging on these sites when names of "Godly" guides get mentioned in a not so glamorous light. I understand that. Lord knows most of them can do no wrong!
No worries, though!!!

Not in the "voyeur" sports so much.. I could care less who slings shit on who..I just wanted to be forewarned about someone that I could end up potentially being told to hunt with cuz he's such a "great PH" and all that jazz and end up getting the shit end of the stick on a hunt that I skrimped and saved to go on... I have been considering a Namib hunt to do in the next year or 3..

What a nightmare!

It is nice to see, though, that NAPHA came through for you. I met Frank Heger at SCI, when he was NAPHA president, and he seemed like a nice enough guy. I'm glad he did such a good job for you. Your wife killed a remarkable gemsbok.

As for the fallout from filing a negative hunt report, I say do it. Name names, and let the chips fall where they may. Just because some here feel the need to trash those who tell the hard truth doesn't mean that the rest of us don't appreciate it.

Are you a member of The Hunting Report? Negative reports are filed there all the time, and Don Causey gives all involved a forum to state their case and file rebuttals. It can be a very useful resource.

Bottom line is that this "PH" is a disaster waiting to happen to the next guy, and/or his wife. If I were you, concern for my fellow hunters would weigh heavily on my decision. I understand your reluctance, though. It was pretty ugly watching everyone pile on sheephunter and attempt to undermine him in every underhanded way imaginable.

I can understand why you do not to post the PH's name. But I too would like top know, so I can make an informed decision about him. I like to see the good and bad reports. Then I can make my own judgement from all the reports. I for one would never jump on someone for giving a negative report, because what happened is informative to everyone even if it is a PH I personlly like, because in all businesses one can not make everyone happy.

By the way nice gemsbok your wife got. Or any of those friends (babes) of hers single?

Excellent gemsbuck! I'm glad to hear you and your wife turned lemons into lemonade. I might regret saying this, but I wish I could talk my wife into coming to Africa with me.

George

Congrats to your wife, and for you in helping her not only come to terms with, but embrace, your passion for Africa and hunting.

I am sorry to hear about the initial part of the trip, and respect your resistance to divulge the outfitter at this point in time. However, with due respect, there are many reports filed here by members who hunted with reputable Namibian outfitters/PH's, and I'd urge you to consider what impact the shadow of suspicion might have on these innocent parties. Too, if I were booked on a hunt with a Namibian PH this year or next who was mentioned in the report archives, or was looking to book, I'd be pretty nervous wondering if it was my-guy. Not an easy situation for sure, but the only other option to clear the air would be to name who it is NOT, which would be a little bit silly. The dynamics of that one long (and unresolved) controversy that you referenced above was a bit unique, and unlikely to be repeated anytime soon.

In any event, glad you were able to salvage the balance of the trip. I am sure you and your wife will share many more adventures in the years to come (like Tanzania).

I'm glad to hear that you have converted your lovely wife into a huntress, despite the hardship you both had to go thru. It definately wasn't the optimal situation in which to introduce her to our favorite hobby. Still, it looks like she came thru with flying colors!

I would agree with several of the posters above that the PH's name should be made public, in order to warn off potentially unknowing hunters here from booking with him. I can understand that you feel this might become uncomfortable, due to the past experiances you provided links to, but wouldn't you agree that it's better to take some crap from his "groupies", rather than see the next innocent guy get burned? Never let anyone intimidate you into silence when all you want to do is tell the truth! Especially when it is in order to help others. JMHO.

Hope you get to bring your wife back to Africa ASAP. It's certainly addictive!

404WJJeffery,

Glad to see you and your wife had some good luck.


Maybe you should tell the whole story about your bad experience. You basically threw this trip together in a day.
The PH when you booked told you it would be difficult to find another PH because it was during the middle of the season. I saw the emails that went back and forth. Plus the PH sent his assistant into town a day early to pick you up because you gave the wrong arrival day.

There was a PH in camp for your first day if your arrival time would have been correct. The main PH scrambled like hell before you arrived trying to find you a PH. I was there he worked the phones for hours trying to find someone.

I do not want this to become a pissing contest but I was there and no, I was not privy to the conversations. Just please be honest and tell the whole story. If you had waited one week to book this hunt there would not have been a problem.

This may have been my first trip to Africa but I definitely know what good food taste like, and it was far from inedible.

You knew full well I was in camp, you even stated in an email that you knew there was another hunter in camp. You even knew my AR name when you came into camp.

The PH expressed much regret and I think chatised your PH for the drinking.

I know you had an unpleasant experience but I know it was not all the PH's fault. Please be honest when you run another man's business down.

I will definitely book with him again, I had a great time.

Wayne

For Christ's Sake, could we please know which PH we are talking about here???
We are not talking about national security!

do the names Boet & Karen ring any bells

Wayne

I find it Interesting you are willing to weigh in on this. Anyone can see your posts about your hunt, put two and two together and see who the PH was. I stated I would not make any direct accusations, and as you said “run down a man’s businessâ€. First to avoid a war on AR, and second, to let impartial fact finders sort it out, which in the end will be far more credible and valuable than my bare statements.

In fact, I did not relate the story to “run his business downâ€- I know how important one’s reputation is. You, by posting, have accomplished this. The purpose of my post was to a) vent and b) talk about how the hunt with my wife on her first trip to Africa started out as a nightmare but was saved by Volker Grellman, Frank and Gudrun Heger and NAPHA.

You are a nice guy Wayne, but I think you are in here over your head.

I was content to let things take things take their official course, but since you have let the cat out of the bag, so be it. You have some interesting points, and I can only assume that you have been in communication with the PH, and that he has provided you with information to fight this as his proxy.

I think we can all take this as a fact because he has apparently provided you with access to all my email correspondence with him (you stated you have read my emails to him).

I am curious as to why and under what circumstances the PH had you reading my emails to him? Please respond.

How is it that you know so much about my problems with the hunt? I did not disclose anything to you in camp, out of discretion and frankly concern for you- you were obviously happy, your hunt had been planned for years, and I did not want to interfere with your experience. Common courtesy. Funny, you do not find the reciprocal toward me?

True, is was a short notice hunt, but this was obvious to all - my first contact with the PH was May 31. (The hunt began on June 10.) In May, he responded that he did not have availability for the dates I requested.

I then contacted Mark Young, trying to sort out a hunt with another PH, but the dates didn’t work in the end.

In the interim, I received an email from the PH stating he now had availability.

I telephoned the PH in question and he said he had some cancellations and that he was “absolutely free†for the dates I wanted to hunt. I was later to learn that this, in his world of bullshit, didn’t actually mean HE was absolutely free, it only meant that he was absolutely free to book me into his camp and collect my money but not provide the service he promised.

Whether it was a day, a week or a a year in advance, the issues I raised still apply. He was free to tell me it would be difficult to accomodate me, and tell me the reasons why, and I could make an informed decision. He did not, hence the result. When we were left high and dry in Winhoek, I did manage to sort out a great hunt with Frank Heger.....in a day.

Yes, I had confirmation there would be another hunter in the camp…..on the morning we left, ……literally as our bags were packed and loaded in the car. I only learned this after I saw your posts one day before our departure about the dates you would attend his camp, and thought something didn’t add up. Initially, I thought you were one of his cancellations and that is why he was free. I may even have sent you an AR PM about it.

I wrote him by email (because of the lateness of the hour for him) asking him about this, and the reply came the morning of our departure.

Interesting that neither you nor the PH are troubled by the fact that this was not disclosed to me at the time he offered the hunt. This is 180 degrees different than what you are representing as fact, and you are wrong.

The first I heard about his difficulty in finding a PH was when I was sitting on his sofa in his lodge on the day of our arrival, and after waiting for him for two hours. Did the PH tell you I was very firm with him that I was not at all happy about this revelation and that I told him unequivocally that if he did not have a PH in camp the next day for us to hunt with the hunt was off? Hence his "scrambling for hours"? This doesn't add up either- when was he doing this? When we were in camp? Before we arrived? Did it cut into your hunting time? Was this fair to you? Please respond.

You are correct about the arrival date mistake. I emailed my complete itinerary to him and in the body of the email, I wrote our arrival date as a day early. His wife emailed me and pointed out this error, presumably found very easily by simply reading the itinerary. Shame on me.

It is, however, an absolute mistake to imply that this caused him problems. I know this because I apologized about it to the young man who picked us up, and he stated yes, he did come a day early, but it was no problem because he had planned this as the outfit needed a day in Windhoek to see to some repairs/additions to the hunting cage on the back of the Land Cruiser, which he did the day before our arrival.

I do see that you have admitted that, being in camp, and by the PH’s admission to you, Gert, the Sunday PH hunt for 2 hours but charge the client a full day PH fees, was absolutely shit-faced and talking annoying nonsense at the fire Sunday night.

Wayne, in fairness, do you blame me for assuming that this would be the quality of PH that would provide for me on the rest of the hunt, and for me to be concerned?

You were not present for all of our conversations, but you were sitting opposite me at the dinner table when the PH boorishly stated we were leaving because my wife did not like hunting. You were also there when he immediately said something in Afrikaans to the boy, and they both laughed heartily. I do not know what he said, but it is fair to assume that it was related to my wife.

Wayne, don’t you think this is inappropriate and unprofessional? Boorish? Ungentlemanly?

Did you see my wife immediately leave the table in the middle of dinner? Do you think this is an example of a pleasant hunting camp?

My wife was already wary of him. On our day of arrival, she presented his wife with a gift. Immediately after, I went to the tent, and my wife stayed in the lodge. My wife heard the PH, who was with his wife in the kitchen in the lodge, scream at his wife for quite a while, until his pregnant was was in tears and very upset. The conversation was in Afrikaans, so who knows what it was about…..NICE GUY!

Ok, all these issues…no PH…drunk Sunday PHs, lousy food, boorish behavior, the principal PH’s own drinking (4 large scotches that I saw at the fire Sunday), loading me and my wife in a cruiser with a hump in the middle, a true two seater, for a two hour plus drive to camp, crappy hunting areas, - these are examples of bad service, and perhaps a matter of opinion and varying degrees of interpretation.

In my opinion, these are unprofessional, and illustrate a low level of service, and in the case of the no disclosure/no PH issue, ethically suspect.

I see you do not address at all the PH’s extortion of excessive fees from me under threat of abandonment in his camp. No pleasant, but again a matter of opinion based upon one’s expectations of professionalism, integrity and simple human decency.

On the other hand, opinions aside, Wayne, or perhaps the PH himself, please respond to these facts:

Is it not a violation of Namibian law to send a client hunting without a PH, as he did on Monday, when we went out with the boy, and two blacks, and tracked a gemsbok and shot a warthog?

Is it not a violation of Namibian law to send me hunting, again without a PH, to hunt cheetah with hounds on Monday morning?

Is it not a violation of Namibian law to offer me cheetah and leopard and to hunt them, when the PH has not taken out licenses for the hunter to do this?

I saw my license in Ben Beytell’s office- there was no license for leopard or cheetah.

The short answer is yes, these are violations.

You see, if I book a hunt and get bad service, shame on me- but I can report and pursue hunting violations, which get me to the ends I need (see below).

Wayne, you are satisfied with your hunt, This was your first. Great. This was my sixth. I have a little more experience, and perhaps higher standards. Opinions and personalities and expectations aside, I think anyone should be wary of a PH who violates hunting laws and does not take out proper licenses for his clients. Period. Where there is smoke, there is fire, my boy.

But don’t take my opinion for it, just google Frank Heger and Volker Grellman. They are the types of people I want to associate with, and they provide what I consider a quality hunting experience in Namibia. Or Johan Pieterse, J.P. Lochner, whom I have posted about. Gentlemen all, highest integrity, very professional and pleasant people.

So, in my OPINION, the PH you praise is a bullshitter and an ass. A poor PH, a weasel and a very unpleasant person.

As to being honest when “running another man’s business down“, I in fact think this man should not be in business at all.

I will do everything in my power, and with the resources available to me (and thank God I have considerable resources) to put him out of business.

This ol boy is in my crosshairs.- For the things he said to my wife, and for his extortion of money from me, which I forced to pay to keep my wife calm (had I been alone I would have said forget it, I’ll hitch-hike to Windhoek and let the authorities sort it out).

I am a little older now, and being a lawyer of 17 years vintage, the majority as a litigator, and with more tha 70 trials to verdict as a prosecutor and in private practice, I prefer to turn the knife slowly. In fact, that is what the "civilization and law requires. I would prefer to knock the little asswipe out, and if I could understand Afrikaans and he said what I think he said about my wife, I would have, but.....

The NAPHA/Ministry actions for hunting violations are just the beginning. Once the findings are made, I will institute litigation in Windhoek against him for the money he extorted, and he will spend quite a bit, I am sure, to defend himself. I also believe I can assert jurisdiction over him here in the US, so when he shows up at SCI, he will have a nice summons to respond to, or ignore it and I will enter a default judgment against him.

Now, let the games begin. All his minions will post, and in the end, the thread will be closed down.

To the impartial reader, I say just wait and see what the Namibian officials do, and when they make their findings, you can decide if you still want to hunt with him, or if perhaps you prefer someone with a few fewer stains on their napkin. Your money- your hunt.

One last bit: Wayne, is this the water hole you hunted at on Monday your hunt while we were still in camp, where you wrote you sat until 2:30 pm it the large waterhole on the PH’s property?:

from the blind:



and the waterhole:

Sorry about your expiriences on the hunt, there is bad apples everywhere but thanks to AR they get out in thr open. since iam planning (saving up cash first) for my first african tour it is learning to get to know whom not to book and use for a safari.

404WJJeffery,

FWIW, a friend of mine here in Norway went hunting in Africa for the first time last year. It was set up by "Sparta Hunting Club" and was with Boet Nel.

Although I don't recall the details, I do know that he was terribly disappointed with his experiance. In fact so much that I fear he has been cured of the African bug for good. Which of course is a great shame.

So know that you are not alone in experiancing a far from optimal hunt with him. Even though others have had a good time. Were they lucky? Were you and my friend unlucky? I don't know, but it is clear that the experiances had with this guy are at least very inconsistant. Which in itself brings up warning lights IMO.

404WJJeffrey

Sorry to hear about your and your wife's unpleasant experiences.

Good to see you managed to do some good hunting though while there and even better to hear about your wife's new interest.

I think you have stated your 'case' pretty well in your posts and it will be interesting to see how the "other side" responds.

Hopefully it will be above the pathetic character assasination that was tried by the Pierre van Tonder / Atkinson 'groupies' in the absence of any real evidence. Real evidence is always more convincing, hey?!

As you are probably aware but maybe some readers are not, it is a common tactic for unscrupulous outfitters/agents to use apparently "independent" members to post their advertising on this website. Often these members are booking agents, friends, "psuedo-bankers" for the outfitter in the USA etc etc. Or get freebie or discounted hunts to tell a "good" "story".

I've seen it and experienced it personally.

Good luck and I hope the result is the appropriate one for the actual evidence.

PS I am hunting in Namibia (and Zimbabwe) in a couple weeks time so was interested and relieved to read whom you actually hunted with.

My PH invited me to come and hunt with him, no doubt to show me what he has to offer, and get an honest report, photos, stories, etc for in return.

PS (edited to add) - my comments above about secret "advertising" were not aimed at anyone on this thread, or this outfitter. Just to clear that up in case of miscomprehension.

404,

I knew full well posting would let the world know who the PH was if they did a search.

I do not want to, as stated before get into a pissing match and also as stated in my first post said I was not privy to all conversations. I just stated you were not, in my opinion being 100% fair. Being a lawyer by training, you should know there are three sides to every story, with one being the truth.

No, I was not given the emails nor have I been contacted by anyone to do anything.
The emails I mentioned were your first ones, Karen brought them out and asked me was it possible to come from the US on Friday morning and be in Windhoek at 7 am Saturday thru Frankfurt. I told her I did not think so.

All I know is in your email you stated you would arrive around 7.30 am Saturday morn. Boet sent Irvin into town Friday afternoon. Irvin waited all day Saturday for you and then I was told you were mad Sunday morning when your plane came in early and you had to wait 40 minutes.

As you stated you have considerable resources, and as you stated in camp not being there six hours yet, that you have all these custom guns and how much they cost, plus you own a Mercedes and your wife complained about not having her hot tub. You also made fun of the way I talked, it got so bad even your wife told you to stop.

No, that is not the waterhole I was at; in fact I do not remember seeing that one.

404, I do remember your name and your lovely wife’s name but have not used them out of courtesy since you have not posted them.
I would imagine that in your lawyer days you had some clients who were unhappy with you and the service you provided. After all in 17 years you must have lost some cases. I feel that if you would for a moment be honest with at least yourself you would realize that this is not all Boet’s fault. I was there before, during and after your visit and saw how upset Boet was about your early departure, but I guess he was just acting.

Anyway, I had a fantastic time on my first African trip hunting with Boet Nel and will hunt with him again.






This will be my final post on this subject and I will not answer any PM’s. As 404 stated let NAPHA sort it out.

sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with the ph... my sig other is the hunter in this family.... she grew up in a ranch town in west texas... and is a great lady to be around... she's a terrific shot, lots better than i am with a long gun... we've had bad experiences with several busineses when looking at firearms, like a national chain located in buda texas... while in the gun library there, the library manager competely dissmissed her as a potential customer.... she left an broused the other parts of the store, i should have noticed, but didn't....we were looking at nice double rifles there... krieghoffs big 5, merkels and a rigby... while i will continue to shop from the floor, the library is forever off my list....we will be purchasing a double in the next year, and have a trip to oz or zim in planning for the next 5...the 1 good thing about all this, is i get to look at GUNS.... lotsa GUNS....and to remeber.. if mama ain'thappy, ain't nobody gonna be happy.....best of luck with your future hunts...

Montana

My impression of you from our short time together was that you were a very nice guy, pleasant and a pleasure to be around.

I do think that you have skirted the issues I addressed and instead decided to portray me as some kind of world class ass.

You mentioned the lawyer thing- here is a saying:

If you don't have the facts on your side, argue the law;
If you don't have the law on your side, argue the facts;
If you don't have the facts or the law on your side, argue about your opponent.


So this is what it has come to-----just like JJ Miller, who was portrayed as an ass and a drunk, and Sheephunter, who was portrayed as an idiot, I am being presented as some kind of Thurston Howell the Third, with all my personal character flaws observed by Montana in our hours together pointed out as an argument as to why the hunt went wrong.

Just what purpose do they serve? I am an ass therefore .... I don't deserve a PH to hunt with? Don't deserve a license?

Ummmm.....I think the discussion about "custom guns" came up because we were talking about our rifles and the Blaser I had, and I think I mentioned some of my guns, but that is because I am a gun nut, and love to talk guns, not because it is any great shakes to have them. Sorry if it made you uncomfortable. Did I really talk about “all my custom guns� It must have been a short conversation - Let's see, the only custom guns I have would be my Dakota traveler, if they qualify, and I think a 404J I have on an FN action may be considered a custom, but that is it.

Did it in fact come up because I was sorta bad mouthing expensive guns, because I was actually a bit disappointed in my Dakota?

Yes, I did make fun of your accent. I apologize. i felt very comfortable with you and giving you a little shit was your invitation to give a little back. I do recall we were also razzing the Afrikaaners about their accent, and my wife about hers. Sorry man.

Mercedes....is that a big deal? To me, it is not. Sorry Montana, but I think you may have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Who on earth brags about having a Mercedes? Yes, my wife drives a 2 year E series..but that is hardly something that rates in our book. If my intention was to be an ass-braggert, why didn't I tell you about my BMW 645, a far superior vehicle, or my Porsche Cayenne S....a better car the the MB?

But I didn't, did I?

About her hot tub...uh, didn’t I mention this because I ws kidding her about being out in the “bush†away from the comforts of home. Montanta, I don’t think having a hot tub is any kind of status symbol, and it certainly wasn’t meant to convey that.

Weird that this is the stuff you remember about us……..

What does any of this have to do with my complaints, other then pointing out that you didn’t like us? No facts? No Law? Attack me then?

Look man, I am sorry that you didn't like us. You were there alone and I think we went out of our way to engage you in the lodge and at the fire, to be friendly and to draw you out a bit. You are a reserved guy, and that is great. I suppose I did not realize that you sensitive about some of the issues you raised.
I am very sorry. Again, prior to your involvement in this post, I had a very positive opinion of you and would gladly have shared a camp with you anytime.

I do think that you are trying to pull out all the stops to make me look like an ass with these comments you have posted.....I dunno.

Ok, so you will not post anymore, but really, you are engaging in a bit of hit and run, aren't you?

I must also point out that you obviously were engaged heavily in this issue, for you to know that I was a little pissed off at being kept waiting 40 minutes for our airport pick up- I mentioned this to the PH in our heated discussion about his fees, and I know you were not in the lodge for that, so he must have engaged you in these issues.

Here’s another little problem with your postings:

First you wrote in your post of July 29:

“Maybe you should tell the whole story about your bad experience. You basically threw this trip together in a day. The PH when you booked told you it would be difficult to find another PH because it was during the middle of the season. I saw the emails that went back and forth. Plus the PH sent his assistant into town a day early to pick you up because you gave the wrong arrival day.â€

When I ask why you were reading my emails, and state categorically that the PH DID NOT tell me he would not guide me personally, nor that he would have to scramble to find a PH because of the late booking. You don‘t respond, in fact you pull a 180:

When I call you on it, today you write:

“No, I was not given the emails nor have I been contacted by anyone to do anything.
The emails I mentioned were your first ones, Karen brought them out and asked me was it possible to come from the US on Friday morning and be in Windhoek at 7 am Saturday thru Frankfurt. I told her I did not think so.â€

So did you see an email where the PH told me he’d be scrambling or did you not? I have the emails, as does NAPHA and the Department of Wildlife, and ther eis nothing in them about this.

Tell me that you saw an email that advised me he would have to scramble to find me a PH because of the late booking. You can’t because it didn’t exist.

And did Erwin really “wait all day for us†the day before our arrival because I wrote the wrong arrival day? I originally emailed, mistakenly, that we would arrive on June 10, at 7:45 am from Frankfurt. Yet Montana, I have in my email box the email from the PH’s wife, dated June 9 at 15:39 local Namibia time, pointing out my error and telling me I was wrong that we would in fact arrive on June 11. So how is it that they were confused and sent Erwin to collect us on June 10, a day early when in fact they emailed me on the 9th pointing out my error?

I think it was just a bullshit argument the PH came up with when I pointed out my problems with his service. He needed his Cruiser fixed and sent the boy in a day early to do it.

Most importantly…..
You asked me to be honest and accept that I shared the blame for some of the problems. Please identify which problems I am responsible for and how I could have altered the outcome of these:

The drunk PH?
The primary PH’s drinking?
The late airport pick up?
The transportation in a two seat vehicle?
The PH screaming at his wife?

Sorry man, but I do think it was entirely the PH’s fault. How in the name of God do you think it was my fault for

-Not having a PH for us to hunt with for 3 of the first four days of the hunt?
-How was I at fault for not obtaining proper licenses?
-Was I at fault for sending my self out hunting without a PH?

Montana, why don’t you answer me when I ask you if you recall the scene at dinner with my wife? Did it bother you? You do seem to be sensitive to things, were you sensitive to this?

This may be over for you, but it is not for me. I gladly solicit all horror stories from previous clients of this PH, and will forward them to Ben Beytell, who specifically asked me to do this if I came across any.

Well, this is probably getting pretty boring for people to read, so I will end the post.

My 2 cents FWIW:

404 has hunted 4 times already with me this year - the last hunt as recently as 2 weeks ago. No, we aren't going steady and no I am NOT on his payroll, but he is a friend of mine and I can vouch for his integrity.

The facts (as I see it) are that:

By law, a licensed PH must accompany a client on all hunts.

An outfitter should therefore not accept bookings from a client if he doesn't have a PH available to guide the client and he cannot book a client for a hunt under the presumption that he would find a PH in time.

So it is irrelevant whether 404 booked his hunt a week, a month or a year in advance. The point is that by taking the booking, the outfitter implied that he was all set for the hunt and that there would be a PH available - whether he himself would be guiding the client or whether he would be paying another PH to guide the client. An outfitter should NOT scramble to try and get a PH for a client if he has already accepted a booking from a client - period.

A comment was made that there was a PH available on the first day but that 404 arrived a day later than what he said he would. So where did the PH who was supposedly available on the first day disappear to? Was he only available for 1 day then and where would that leave 404 for the remaining days?

The facts seem to indicate that all the paperwork (licenses etc.) was not in place at the time of 404's arrival and he was sent out hunting for animals that weren't on license without a PH. He was therefore hunting illegally as per the definition of the law. Question is: "what would have happened if they ran across a nature conservation official while they were hunting?" Guns confiscated, being arrested, etc. etc?

Or even worse: What if 404 did come across a leopard and cheetah and shot it? How would the trophies legally have gotten back home without the required paperwork?

And to then demand that full payment is made on account of the fact that a PH had been booked! For goodness sakes, the PH wasn't there - how could he have been booked?

Yes, taste differs and personalities clash and if this was about the quality of the food in camp or a "personality" thing I would have said: "Good riddance" or "Go to a steakhouse".

Being a "good" PH / outfitter is about more than finding animals on the client's wishlist, being able get along with clients or feeding them well. The point is that the rules were not followed and misrepresentations were made to the client. So whether 404 drives a Volkswagen or a Mercedes, whether he has 3 hunting rifles or 30 and whether he is an "ass" (which coincidentally he is not) or a true gentleman is not relevant.

It is great that some members here have had outstanding experiences with the same PH - clearly he is doing some things right and I don't want to knock him as I don't know him. But the value of forums such as this is that different opinions are aired which enables members to make informed decisions about who they hunt with.

Regards,

Chris Troskie
Tel. +27 82 859-0771
email. chris@ct-safaris.com
Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA
www.ct-safaris.com
https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4

I know I stated that I would not reply to this thread anymore. My reason for that was I did not want this to turn into the sheephunter thread but there are some things that need a reply here. This is mainly for third party knowledge.

First, NitroX I am sure what you stated does happen. Let me assure I am not receiving anything from Boet Nel. I paid Boet over 14K for my hunt, they only thing I received at discount was, the Blue wildebeast I wounded Boet knocked off about 50% from the trophy fee, he also knocked off $150US from my second Kudu, he did not say so but I felt it was because the horns were a couple inches shorter than he said. It was still a 50 incher. This to me does not sound like someone that extorts money, but to me a nice guy.

Chris, you know 404 way better than me but I want to take the time to tell everyone what happened. This is based on what I saw, heard or was told to me. If someone lied to me this I can not help. As stated before the only two people that really know are Boet and 404.

Friday morning after breakfast Boet said he thinks someone else is coming in from the States to hunt. He had a telephone call at midnight from someone wanting to hunt. Boet thinks the guy is from San Diego because he had asked about another guy named Corey from San Diego.

We return from the morning hunt and while eating lunch, Karen brings out a copy of an email. She hands it to me with the question do you think the arrival time is correct. I looked at it and there appeared to only be about 30 minute’s connection time in Frankfurt. I said if this is the same day he will never make it. No dates were printed so it was hard to tell it did however clearly state 404 would be arriving around 7:30 Saturday morning. This email also stated that 404 knew I was in camp and asked for certain foodstuffs for him and his wife and was confirmation of his booking. I went and took a nap. About 2:30 we were loading up for the afternoon hunt. I asked Boet where Irvin was he said he had sent him already into town to secure a license for 404 and to be ready to pick them up in the morning. I asked Boet would he have another PH to hunt 404. He stated that he informed 404 that most likely there might be a day a PH was not available because of the short booking time and the fact it was mid-season. Boet also said 404 only was interested in 3 animals a Cheetah, Warthog and Gemsbok over 40â€.

Saturday we get up go hunting, I learn that 404 is not coming into camp until Sunday which makes sense and what I figured all along given the travel time.

Gert, the second PH is in camp when we return from the field. Gert goes with us on Sunday morning and when we return for lunch, 404 and his wife are in camp. We all shake hands and introduce ourselves. We all eat lunch and take a break for the afternoon hunt. About 3:00 we load up and head for the rifle range to check 404’s zero, I also wanted to check mine again. I fire one shot and clear the way. 404 shoots his, it is off we get it back on target and everyone is off. No game was taken that evening.

That night there is a BBQ outside around the fire pit, with adult beverages being poured. Gert had a couple to many and was speaking in Afrikaans, he was funny to me as I could not understand him, but his speech was slurred. During dinner everyone was talking about each others accent and it was mostly good natured. I did feel that 404 carried on a bit much regarding mine and so it seems did his wife who at least twice asked him to stop. Now I am not thinned skin and did not let it bother me. I chalked it up to 404’s personality besides I was here to have a good time and was not going to let anything stop that. We sat around the fire pit and talked and had a good conversation with 404 and his wife and how they got together. I got up and left for bed as all seemed to be well, but not before being chided by 404 for the early bed time. I owed him no reason and offered none. But I had 9 days of hunting left and did not want to be worn out the last few days. I had never hunted 12 days in a row before.

Monday everyone is up and at breakfast both land cruisers are out front and being readied for the hunt. Gert had left early that morning and there was no PH to hunt 404. I do not know Namibian law about hunting with or without a PH. I had hunted with Irvin Friday and felt he was fine plus he is taking his PH lisc. in Sept or Oct I think.. If this is against the law then it should not have happened and that is all the judgment I can render. Call me blissfully unaware. I do know that while I was out with Boet we stopped many times looking for Cheetah and a fresh track on 404’s behalf, I know he is unaware of that and at this point does not care but it happened.

When we came back in for lunch all seems well to me we head off for our separate quarters. We group back up around 2:30 and head off again. That evening I shoot a Blue Wildebeast and when we get back to camp 404 has shot a huge bodied warthog with a broke tusk. I took video of it out at the skinning shed it was huge. Came back and congratulated 404 on the warty and he said well it only had one tusk but I wanted to shoot something. OK by me his trigger and wallet. Later I was told his wife almost puked when he shot the warthog, this I can understand as my wife would have too. Now this became the reason for their leaving as 404 said to me she does not like the bugs, dust or the killing aspect of this. This to me showed a different side of 404 than what I originally had thought, he cared enough about his wife to break off the hunting trip and go sightseeing to make his wife happy. I know I most likely would not have done this, I would have told her to sit in camp and watch the DVD player. Again I went to bed early as I saw that 404 and Boet needed to settle up. 404 I have no clue what you paid Boet so I can not answer your question about this.

Tuesday morning we left for the mountains after Leopard and Zebra. On the way Boet said 404 showed himself the night before. Boet was upset over the events and did tell me that 404 was not charged for Monday since no PH was present but since Boet had contracted another PH that was to show up and was obligated to pay, he felt 404 should pay these cost. This to me sounds fair based on the knowledge I have, I do not have a clue about Boet and 404’s original agreement. That was the last discussion we had other than when Irvin dropped off 404 and his wife at a hotel in Windhoek. Irvin said they did not even acknowledge him with a goodbye.

Now I would like to address some of the points 404 would like addressed.


1. His failure to tell us that he had another hunter in camp and would not guide us, despite assuring me that he was "absolutely free" due to cancellations

404 knew I was in camp as stated in the email on Friday that showed his arrival time, I think we have a mis-communication somewhere.

2. He did not have a PH for us to hunt with the for three of the first four days of the hunt

Again I do not know the original agreement but myself was concerned about finding a PH on short notice. Boet then told me he had informed 404 that there might be a day or two with no PH but he would work it out and would not charge for those days.

3. Excessive drinking on the PH's part, as well as his harassment and boorishness toward my wife.

Gert did get drunk, but was just sitting in a chair talking I thought telling old war stories. Boet expressed much regret to me the next day. Boet should have put a stop to it that night. Regarding 404’s wife again I was unaware of anything as this may have happened after I left for bed

Pretty thick stuff, and the "concessions" were reached after about 30 minutes of driving on roads. He does have some land where his lodge is, but I did not the "loads" of game that others posted about.

I was told Boet has 1000 hectares on his main ranch which is the Morgan farm, maybe someone can look it up. I am almost positive 404 hunted an area that had not been hunted in awhile. I know we had been over the land pretty well right around camp. Also there was a full moon, the wind was blowing dreadfully. Later in the hunt the wind died down and the moon was not so full the animals were everywhere. I remember sitting on the couch when 404 came in and I asked him did he see much he shook his head no. I told that I had not either but felt that the full moon was the reason.



The last straw was when, at the end of our first full day there, I asked him when he would have a PH. Wednesday, he says. What time? Wednesday night. Oh, so this is Monday and you will not have a PH until Thursday, says I? Well, it is not working out, we are leaving, says I. He then started raving at my wife at the fire, saying : "your husband only is leaving because you don't like hunting. Why can't you be a better wife and support him" etc. At dinner the second night, after we informed him we were leaving, he stated to all there "he and his wife are leaving because she does not like hunting" then he said something in Afrikaans to the young man and they both laughed heartily.

I believe Boet had a PH lined up to hunt on Tuesday whose name was Bryan, his wife called and said he could not make it until later. The other things I can not attest to because I was not there.

You have some interesting points, and I can only assume that you have been in communication with the PH, and that he has provided you with information to fight this as his proxy.

I have in no way been contacted by Boet or Karen regarding this, the only communication I have received is regarding dates for next year.


I am curious as to why and under what circumstances the PH had you reading my emails to him? Please respond

As stated to try and make sense of your arrival time,


True, is was a short notice hunt, but this was obvious to all - my first contact with the PH was May 31. (The hunt began on June 10.) In May, he responded that he did not have availability for the dates I requested.

I then contacted Mark Young, trying to sort out a hunt with another PH, but the dates didn’t work in the end.

In the interim, I received an email from the PH stating he now had availability.

I telephoned the PH in question and he said he had some cancellations and that he was “absolutely free†for the dates I wanted to hunt. I was later to learn that this, in his world of bullshit, didn’t actually mean HE was absolutely free, it only meant that he was absolutely free to book me into his camp and collect my money but not provide the service he promised.

Whether it was a day, a week or a a year in advance, the issues I raised still apply. He was free to tell me it would be difficult to accommodate me, and tell me the reasons why, and I could make an informed decision. He did not, hence the result. When we were left high and dry in Windhoek, I did manage to sort out a great hunt with Frank Heger.....in a day


I was only aware of the fact that you called at midnight inquiring about a hunt and asking about another hunter who I assumed had hunted with Boet in the past that you knew. Also the fact you were getting on a plane that day to come over because another hunt somewhere had not worked out. My understanding was you were booking with Boet because you already had plane tickets purchased; the rest is a misunderstanding as I see it. Did you ask Boet if he would be your PH? I did and it was specified in the paperwork.


You were not present for all of our conversations, but you were sitting opposite me at the dinner table when the PH boorishly stated we were leaving because my wife did not like hunting. You were also there when he immediately said something in Afrikaans to the boy, and they both laughed heartily. I do not know what he said, but it is fair to assume that it was related to my wife.

As I have stated many times no I was not privy to all the conversations. Yes I was sitting there and remember it, at the time I did not relate that to something about your wife. If my wife had been in camp I most likely would have been a bit more sensitive to these things. Second, if someone chooses to talk about me I for the most part let it go and chalk it up to that person’s problem. Which I have noticed is most of the time some kind of inferiority complex. I am in NO WAY SAYING THIS IS YOU. Just a few things I have learned in this life to keep me from killing a few people along the way.


see you do not address at all the PH’s extortion of excessive fees from me under threat of abandonment in his camp. No pleasant, but again a matter of opinion based upon one’s expectations of professionalism, integrity and simple human decency.

I was not there for this, I had left for bed.



Is it not a violation of Namibian law to send a client hunting without a PH, as he did on Monday, when we went out with the boy, and two blacks, and tracked a gemsbok and shot a warthog?

Is it not a violation of Namibian law to send me hunting, again without a PH, to hunt cheetah with hounds on Monday morning?

Is it not a violation of Namibian law to offer me cheetah and leopard and to hunt them, when the PH has not taken out licenses for the hunter to do this?

I have not clue about the law in Namibia, if what you say is true then it will be taken care of.

Would you rather have set in camp all day Monday?


404,

Maybe I was too quick to judge you but I think I have you down now.

If everything you state is the truth and you can not think back and see how maybe something was misconstrued in either yours or Boet’s mind and that there was a miscommunication. Then you have every right to be pissed as hell and take all the action you have stated.

Here is what I think happened you called Boet looking for quick hunt with 24 hrs to go before your plane leaves. Maybe since this was your sixth trip you felt confident you could pull this quick trip off. I know myself after having done it only one time even if all my stuff was packed would be uneasy about trying to book a hunt with someone I have never hunted with before and get on a plane with 24 hrs notice. It took me six weeks to get all my dates and such worked out.

Did Boet mislead you on having someone available? All the other problems arise from this point. What I do know is Boet came out of his office either having just talked with you or an email and said you were on your way. My immediate question was how difficult will it be to find you a PH. He said quote “I told the guy there might be a day or two I don’t have a PH but we will work it out, I won’t charge him for those days.†And you showed after that so I assumed it was okay, then you shot the warthog I was told your wife had a problem with that. You even told me that was the problem. I saw no problem in camp except Gert getting loaded.

From my point of view this hunt was thrown together to quickly and the details were not worked out. That is the one thing I learned from T. Carr’s posts, details make sure you know what is what.

404 I am truly sorry you had a bad hunt I would not wish them on anyone. I have had my share and feel the blame is mine for not working out the details. I guess we all trust the other man to always do the right thing. My original reason for posting to your thread still remains the same Boet Nel is not 100% responsible for this mess in my opinion.
.


404 I called you a pompous ass in a pm I will publicly admit that and now I would like to apologize for it.


May the wind always be in your face,

Wayne

Good thing Ray didn't book this hunt.

I do not know what happened or who did what to whom, but these are supposed to be the rules.

From the Namibia Professional Hunters Association:

Hunting Guides

Hunting shall be conducted exclusively in company of a registered hunting guide , master hunting guide or professional hunter.
Hunting guides (HG) may only conduct hunts on their own farm(s), duly registered as a hunting farm(s).
Master hunting guides (MHG) may only conduct hunts on their own farm(s) duly registered, plus two additional duly registered hunting farms.
Professional hunters (PH) may conduct hunts on all farms, provided they have written permission from the owner of the property independent of whether the farm is registered or not.
P H with big-game licence.Only these PH's may conduct hunts with guests for elephant, rhinoceros, buffalo and lion.
Bow hunting. Only hunting guides/ master hunting guides/ professional hunters in possession of a valid bow hunting licence may conduct bow hunting and guide bow hunters.

Hunting permits

A hunt shall only commence if the HG / MHG / PH has obtained a valid hunting permit (trophy hunting permit) from Nature Conservation prior to the start of the hunt.
For cheetah and leopard an additional hunting permit has to be obtained prior to the start of the hunt.

Montana

I think everything has been covered.

I do not know why you are involved with this, and I do not know why you persist is shooting spitballs at me about my character, as you perceive it.

BUT:

You seem to stick to the PH’s line that we only left because my wife did not like hunting. Please see the title of this thread: My Wife the Hunter.

We didn't leave to go sightseeing as you wrote, but to go hunting, which is not what we were doing in the camp you were in.
Not only did she hunt on this trip, she took a nice gemsbok, loved it and wants to go back for more.

I think it was easier for the PH to tell you this story so he would look good to you. He would not have to tell you that he cocked up our hunt. Yes, my wife was a little queasy at the warthog kill, but so was I on my first big kill- never mourned squirrels, rabbits or birds….

The outfitter never told me there might be a few days without a PH. Until the morning of our departure, I did not have confirmation that any other hunters would be in camp. The PH’s response below was received at 11:45 am on June 9, my time. We were packed and leaving. Please note the time of my email to him, which he is responding to, is 5:53 am my time, also the morning of June 9. I was up early, and went on AR, searched under the PHs name and saw the possibility that Montana would be in camp.

[Response to my inquiry of June 9 by the PH, the PH’s responses are in quotes- in the original response they were typed next to my questions and highlighted in red, but I add the quotes for ease of reading.]

"Hi
Hope this is still in time, I'm struggling to get connected to our server this morning. Answers below."
----- Original Message -----
From: JH
To: Karen
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Hunt Inquiry
Boet

I do need to ask, I checked on AR for posts about hunters with you, and it seems you have another hunter in camp from June 9 to 20? If so, who will be our PH? “We get a free-lance PH, so some days you will hunt with the PH and some days with Boet.â€

[end of email quote]

So where is the notification that there would be a few days without a PH? If what the PH told you, Montana is correct i.e. that he would struggle to find us a PH and that there would be days without a PH -Why, when the outfitter was answering my question-do you have another hunter in camp and who is my PH, did he not say “like I told you, we will struggle to find you one, you may not have one for a few days, etc? Because the PH never disclosed this to me.

At the time I wrote this email, I was still under the belief that the PH I booked with was “absolutely free†and expected him to respond/confirm “of course, I am free, I will be your PHâ€.

Had he disclosed to me in the beginning that he had another client and that he would have to find a PH, or been truthful and said well, I have one for Sunday, and one for Wednesday on, does anyone really think I would have proceeded with him? No, I probably would not have gone, or would have decided to go to Etosha, etc. until Wednesday.

I did not know until I was sitting in his lodge that he did not have a PH for me, as stated in previous posts.

I reiterate what I said previously: I had been in email contact with the PH for at least 10 days prior to the hunt about coming. I did telephone him to confirm details. He stated he was absolutely free because of cancellations. No- my bad, I did not further say “ok, now you say you are absolutely free, does that mean that you are free as in you will be living it up in Windhoek when I come, or free to sit at the boma all day, or does that in fact mean you will be the one to guide me?†Perhaps I should have, but in the context of his statement, that would be non-sensical, in my opinion.

Seems to me that whether I had booked a day, a week or a year in advance, this PH would have accepted my booking, told me he was “absolutely free†and then fobbed me off on a free lance PH without a second thought.

I think this is a perfect example of a bullshitter- someone who tells you what you want to hear to get what he wants - another hunter and cash in camp.

Another valid question is, ok, you were there and discovered the true state of affairs, so why didn’t you just wait it out until Wednesday, or take the PH up on his offer to be driven to Windhoek to sight see until Wednesday, or as Montana put it, hunt with a non PH, which is better than sitting in camp?

The answer is that I had lost all confidence in this PH producing what he promised to me in camp, a PH on Wednesday, and the way things were progressing, even if, as the PH told me, we were allowed to hunt on his land without a PH, as he said we were (a lie), even that experience was unacceptable.

I lost confidence in him as I saw his demeanor, and listened to him talk about hunting. “You will go to the waterhole tomorrow with your wife. You will see all kinds of animals, probably a leopard will come to drink and you can shoot himâ€. I knew this was BS- who can predict what animals will come in, and whether we will see a leopard to shoot in daylight?

Two other issues contributed to dissatisfaction with the hunt, and my attitude. Sunday night, at the end of the PH drinking fest, which I and my wife did not participate in, the PH said ok, tomorrow- cheetah, we will have breakfast at 5 am and be out at sunrise. My wife and I were at the lodge at 5 am. A ghost town. We went to the fire and started it again, and waited until 6:15 am for the cook to arrive. We were locked out of the lodge until then. The PH rolled in at 6:25 am, one hour and 25 minutes late.

After looking for cheetah from 7 am, we arrived back at the lodge at 11 am because, as the boy said, the PH wanted to talk to us. He did not show until 12:15, so we sat around and looked at each other for an hour. No hunting, just sitting around.. At 12:40, after lunch, the PH sent us out to the waterhole. I asked if we could walk, he said no, it is about a 20 minute drive. Here is the second issue: We did not arrive at the waterhole until 2:40. When after an hour of grinding around, I asked why we were not at the waterhole, the young man said he and the tracker got lost on the property. We rolled around for 2 full hours looking for the waterhole. We did stop and stalk a gemsbok, which took all of 20 minutes, but the rest of the time we were just meandering around. I told the boy to call the PH and figure out how to get to the waterhole, but I think he was afraid to call. I was pretty irritated by this .

After all the problems we had in just 30 hours of camp, my wife looked at me and said this place is crazy, what are we doing here?

The PH did drink a lot, and I was not referring to the free lance PH, I am referring to the primary PH. I did not like that. I did not like sitting around a fire with two very drunk PHs talking shit and nonsense. Not my style, not what I like, and not when my wife is around.


Enough of this- I just didn’t like the guy. I pegged him as a bullshitter from our first meeting. Sunday it is I don’t have a PH set, but I will find one by Monday. Monday it is “ok, I don’t have one this morning but I will have one tonight. Monday night it is “I won’t have on until Wednesdayâ€. What time? Well, Wednesday night. “OK†says I, “so it is Monday and you won’t have a PH until Wednesday NIGHT? “Why don’t you just tell me Thursday? What were you going to tell me Wednesday when I was ready to meet my PH? -that he will still be here Wednesday, just at night…you can’t actually hunt with him until Thursday?†He had no resposne other than to say, I told you he would be here Wednesday and he will be here Wednesday. I then said, "look, that is a statement designed to be deceptive- to cause me to think I will hunt Wednesday, when in fact I can’t hunt until Thursday."

Ican remeber this conversation like it was 5 minutes ago, and here a month and a half later it is still actually shocking to me- the level of this guy's duplicity and deception. Total Bullshit from this guy. I then said “It is not going to work, we had better just move on, total up the bill and we will leave tomorrow morningâ€.

His “billâ€, after about 30 hours in his camp was $2280.

$95 airport pick up
$95 return to Windhoek
$100 non hunting day
$350 hunting day
$390 warthog
$1250 PH fees, $250 a day for five days

Had the PH graciously said, ok, let us part well and not charged me for Thursday thru Monday for the PH he booked at $250 a day, it may have been better. I asked him- “look, we leave Monday, why are you charging us a full day for a PH on a travel day?†He said “Well, he will be here if you need him, and maybe you want to hunt before breakfast on the day you leaveâ€. Crazy.

I did not think it was appropriate to expect me to pay $250 a day for a PH that he “booked†for us that would not arrive until Thursday, leaving us two more days in camp, for a total of three days without a PH. Just unacceptable. Montana was not present for these conversations, but the PH was swearing and stomping around like a crazy man. My wife was literally scared white, but soothed and calmed this maniac with her voice- everything is ok, everything is fine, calm down, she kept repeating to him

Does anyone really think this is the type of behavior one should be subject to on a hunt?

He also had one full day of hunting at $350 per day on the bill. I asked what day is this for? He said today (Monday), you went to the waterhole and shot a warthog. I said, well, technically, I don’t think you should charge me for a PH, because you restricted us to hunting your property, and it was without the services of a PH, and our hunting suffered a bit for it, for example the boy getting lost on the property for 2 hours.

Bullshitter that he is, and without taking a breath, he said, ok, that is for your arrival day when I had a PH for you. I didn’t like this either: a full days charge for 2 hours of hunting on an arrival day, especially when I arrived at 10:30 and we did not begin hunting until 3:30, because I was waiting for him and his staff to “rest�

Montana, you did confirm that the PH was looking for cheetah sign for me. We were in the other truck looking for sign with his blacks and blue tick hounds. Like Chris Troskie said, what if I shot a cheetah without a license? If I shot a leopard without a license I could not bring it back. (cheetah cannot be brought to the US regardless).

This is how this clown PH operates. Fly by night.

Weird about Erwin saying we did not tell him goodbye. We had a nice time with him. I had a very nice impression of him. I just asked my wife her recollection, and she confirmed that we had a very nice goodbye, and we asked what he would do the rest of the day, he told us a haircut and that he would try not to see his friends because he wanted to rest that night. We most certainly said goodbye.

When I complained to NAPHA and the Ministry, I expected to hit a stone wall- the buddy system in place. Quite to the contrary, every person I had contact with confirmed that this was a problem PH, that they had tried to bring him right and that they had many other complaints about him. I felt better about this because it confirmed to me that I was not alone in my misfortune.

This PH is an ass, vulgar, a bullshitter and a weasel, and I encourage all to stay away from him.

Glad you had a nice hunt Montana. I strongly urge you to book next time with someone else, if for no other reason, to have a different experience, see how other PHs operate. Then, I think you will look back on your first hunt fondly, but you will only then see the deficiencies in it.

And how in the name of the living God Vishnu did you manage to pay FOURTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS for your hunt. This PH’s 10 day hunt package is only $6000, animals included!

NBN 2.

From his site:

10 - DAY PLAINS GAME - 8 ANIMALS
US$ 5999 1X1 US$ 5799 2X1 per person
NON-HUNTER US$99 per night - MAX 4 HUNTERS IN CAMP.
1 GREATER KUDU, 2 GEMSBOK, 1 HARTEBEEST, 2 SPRINGBOK, 1 STEENBOK or DUIKER, 1 WARTHOG

Did he charge you $8,000 for the leopard? YOWSA!

I think I am wearing out my bandwidth welcome on this forum, and even I am getting a little bored with this topic, so let me be the first to say - I’m done. I am happy to respond to questions, but the facts are what they are, and I stand by my presentation of them as the way they occurred.

I wonder if the PH got any of the $1250?