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Tanzania 2 Lion hunt
21 September 2012, 18:34
Safaris Botswana BoundTanzania 2 Lion hunt
A few months back I posted a report on 2 brothers on a 21 day full bag hunt to the Ugunda area in western Tanzania and was unable to post photo's , I have now worked out how to do so please see the pictures which correspond with the thread on the Farris Brothers hunt to Tanzania , to recap we hunted the Ugalla river open area adjoining the Ugunda Park.
Dallas Texas = Tony Farris and Lloyd Farris collected two of most of the east Tanzanian species : Lion Leopard , Hippo , croc, Sable , Buffalo , Topi , Defassa waterbuck , warthog , East African kudu , Hartebeest, Roan , Zebra, Impala, oribi, reedbuck, Duiker , Dik Dik , hyena , bushbuck and small cats such as Genet , Civet , and Serval.
The hunt started in Dar Es Salaam and we flew to Ugalla where PH's Dylan Cloete and John Martin Venter joined us. The hunt was 21 days but we finished up on the 18th with Tony taking 16 trophies and Lloyd 23.
Tony Farris hunted elephant and Buffalo with us and Kalahari plains game in 2000 where he booked a Lion hunt which we had to postpone many times until he finaly came with his brother and their good ladies. The hunt was filmed by Steve Scott's productions and was screened on the Versus Channel : Big 5 African Dangerous Game. Below are some of the trophies the rest can be viewed on my Facebook page - Graeme Bruce Pollock.
http://i1223.photobucket.com/a...%202010/_MG_8629.jpg
21 September 2012, 19:01
Bwana BundukiGreat Trophies!
The Farris Brothers should not use Doxycycline as an antimalarial!
Jeff
21 September 2012, 19:08
D. NelsonGraeme;
Another fantastic collection of trophies. Well done to the hunters and PHs.
Best regards, D. Nelson
21 September 2012, 19:14
chilcotin hillbillyAwesome trip, what success!
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21 September 2012, 20:12
gerrybcongrats on a great hunt
21 September 2012, 20:47
Safari2Very nice..is this a 2012 hunt?
21 September 2012, 21:29
shotgun46Congratulations outstanding collection of animals
21 September 2012, 21:53
Frostbitquote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Great Trophies!
The Farris Brothers should not use Doxycycline as an antimalarial!
Jeff
Or perhaps consider Metrogel for the Rosacea.
Jokes aside, nice bag!!
22 September 2012, 02:29
retreeverWow, what a fantastic safari.
Mike
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22 September 2012, 09:31
jdollarquote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Great Trophies!
The Farris Brothers should not use Doxycycline as an antimalarial!
Jeff
amen to that
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22 September 2012, 19:30
ledvmHi Graeme,
How about a pic of the other lion?
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23 September 2012, 02:40
bcolyerGraeme: It's the weekend. Just got home from a little trip down south. And.......just saw the pictures and story. GREAT. CONGRATULATIONS. Brennan
23 September 2012, 07:08
NakihunterWow! That look s like a safari from the 1970s!
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
24 September 2012, 05:08
Safari2[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Wow!
That look s like a safari from the 1970s!
Yes it does..minus an elephant.
25 September 2012, 13:46
Safaris Botswana BoundHave added the second Lion which was shot on the second day , hyena , serval and Sable.
26 September 2012, 22:32
Bwana338Great Safari.
Some very nice trophy's and your PH's and trackers worked hard for you.
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27 September 2012, 05:00
PD999Thanks, great report!
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13 December 2012, 23:20
mboga biga bwanaA very nice Bag of Trophys. Congrats to all involved.
Nec Timor Nec Temeritas
13 December 2012, 23:28
Bob KeelerWow!! What a trip. You did outstanding and congratulations!!!
14 December 2012, 15:20
BwanamichThx for the report.
The first lion in the sequence is the one "we" knew as the "Isimbira male". His pride consisted of at least 6 adult females and 2 sub-adult females and he owned the territory between our block in the Ugalla Game Reserve and Ugunda Open Area. We had been observing him for the previous two years, apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot. Unfortunate circumstances.
This is a typical example of the importance of maintaining large enough hunting blocks or a cluster of smaller adjoining blocks to viably manage lion hunting in a sustainable way.
I note a tiny roan and a young kudu and waterbuck trophy in the one photo. Unfortunate because that ecosystem really has outstanding trophies of those species!
"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa
hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
14 December 2012, 15:44
OrvarDream safari!
14 December 2012, 16:13
mboga biga bwanaquote:
The first lion in the sequence is the one "we" knew as the "Isimbira male". His pride consisted of at least 6 adult females and 2 sub-adult females and he owned the territory between our block in the Ugalla Game Reserve and Ugunda Open Area. We had been observing him for the previous two years, apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot.
Bwanamich
There is always somewhere a Boundry... Dont tell me this Lion is not a Shooter !!!
Nec Timor Nec Temeritas
14 December 2012, 16:27
Bwanamichquote:
Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
quote:
The first lion in the sequence is the one "we" knew as the "Isimbira male". His pride consisted of at least 6 adult females and 2 sub-adult females and he owned the territory between our block in the Ugalla Game Reserve and Ugunda Open Area. We had been observing him for the previous two years, apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot.
Bwanamich
There is always somewhere a Boundry... Dont tell me this Lion is not a Shooter !!!
Did I say that? We did not shoot it because we knew he held a pride with sub-adults. That was our internal decision, that's all.
"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa
hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
15 December 2012, 04:20
FjoldWow! That's a full bag!
Frank
"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953
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16 December 2012, 22:21
Peter BarnardWell done,great hunt there,JM and Dylan are great guys.
27 December 2012, 00:51
Safaris Botswana BoundOriginally posted by mboga biga bwana:
quote:
The first lion in the sequence is the one "we" knew as the "Isimbira male". His pride consisted of at least 6 adult females and 2 sub-adult females and he owned the territory between our block in the Ugalla Game Reserve and Ugunda Open Area. We had been observing him for the previous two years, apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot.
Bwanamich
There is always somewhere a Boundry... Dont tell me this Lion is not a Shooter !!!
WOW Bwana Mitch , do you really want to go into this debate , frankly I must question why you would attempt a loosely veiled ethical stand point which loosely questions the ethic of the hunt, after 35 years of wildlife conservation which 10 where with National Parks Service and involved lion monitoring we could start a long rehash of Lion Population dynamics , to avoid this I point out one critical and veery salient point - the male was old his genetics were passed on and his time was as close to up as possible - conservation in action is harvesting a trophy that generates tangible benefits to wildlife conservation and the harvest is before the trophy dies or disappears with no benefit to conservation. My problem with your post is that it epitomizes what I call disease marketing, this is when a competitor comments on another outfitter in order to attempt to strengthen their market share by discrediting the competition. That said please can you send me a photo of the lion from your research data for our records so we can be sure we are speaking about the same Lion. Thanks Graeme
27 December 2012, 05:58
pagosawingnutVery Nice trophies. Congratulations on a successful hunt.
27 December 2012, 10:43
fairgameFirst Lion is a beauty. Great Croc and well done on the Leopards.
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27 December 2012, 17:55
fujotupuquote:
....apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot.
Bwanamich's comment only confirms that the lion is fair-game once he leaves his "home" ground.
The he led a protected life by virtue of the fact that he was a known pride holder in one hunting area reconfirms that the hunting ethics for lion are rigorously observed by some outfitters.
28 December 2012, 08:06
TexasTrophyHunterNice lions!! And great hunt report.
28 December 2012, 09:55
Bwanamichquote:
Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:
Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
quote:
The first lion in the sequence is the one "we" knew as the "Isimbira male". His pride consisted of at least 6 adult females and 2 sub-adult females and he owned the territory between our block in the Ugalla Game Reserve and Ugunda Open Area. We had been observing him for the previous two years, apprehensive of the fact that as he roamed beyond our block boundary patrolling his territory he could very likely be shot.
Bwanamich
There is always somewhere a Boundry... Dont tell me this Lion is not a Shooter !!!
WOW Bwana Mitch , do you really want to go into this debate , frankly I must question why you would attempt a loosely veiled ethical stand point which loosely questions the ethic of the hunt, after 35 years of wildlife conservation which 10 where with National Parks Service and involved lion monitoring we could start a long rehash of Lion Population dynamics , to avoid this I point out one critical and veery salient point - the male was old his genetics were passed on and his time was as close to up as possible - conservation in action is harvesting a trophy that generates tangible benefits to wildlife conservation and the harvest is before the trophy dies or disappears with no benefit to conservation. My problem with your post is that it epitomizes what I call disease marketing, this is when a competitor comments on another outfitter in order to attempt to strengthen their market share by discrediting the competition. That said please can you send me a photo of the lion from your research data for our records so we can be sure we are speaking about the same Lion. Thanks Graeme
Hello Graeme,
What I posted was very simply another example of the challenges facing the management of lion hunting.
What you describe in terms of a desired lion trophy for hunting is, generally speaking, correct. I personally disagree with your conclusion(the 1st and last point) that that lion "...was old his genetics were passed on and his time was as close to up as possible." To fit that description, he would have to be 10+ yo which IMHO (Note I say IMHO) that lion is not.
As requested, below are two images of the male in 2010.
"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa
hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
28 December 2012, 14:02
Safaris Botswana BoundFrom the photos it is possible these are the same lions but i am unable to count the follicle on the left side of yours , also the right rear leg scar is not evident on our lion , the mane crown is very similar. Our estimate of the Lion was between 6 and 8 based on dropped jowl , sway back , well worn yellow teeth , no canine ridge at all , mane hair rough course carpet like , large testicles , warrior scaring, nose colouration , our field criteria matched the 6-8 year profile. That said lions generally commence mating from 4-5 and hold a territory (generally ) for 3-5 years , in Tanzania this may be less , this Lion was both a shooter from a conservation point of view and a sport hunting point, the hunt took 18 days of looking at a bunch of Lions and many were turned down which were not suitable , it was shot in daylight from a blind , it was a one shot kill , it was an adventure 10 years in the making , it was a hunt by two brothers out of Texas who shared 21 days of fantastic hunting in the Tanzanian bush , I simply think your comments are in bad taste and would have best been sent in a PM so as not to look like disease marketing.
Graeme
29 December 2012, 10:10
BwanamichThx Graeme,
I apologize if my post came across to you as "disease marketing". Note that I have NEVER marketed our product or services here on AR.
The easiest distinguishable feature in recognizing this lion is the scar on the nose. If your lion had that scar, then its the same one; no need to count follicles.
I agree that from an age point of view, that lion was "old enough" to be sport hunted. Our choice to not shoot it was simply based on the fact that it had sub-adults in its pride. Obviously, you did not see the pride when you hunted this lion which again is an example of the practical challenges we are faced with in managing sustainable sport hunting of lion. Had any of our PHs observed this lion without its pride long enough, they might very well have shot him.
"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa
hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
Very good hunt specially buff, Lion and I am sure the alligator must be over 15 feet in length, congratulation for full bag of trophies and photos.
04 January 2013, 04:01
IndiBwanamich & SBB
You are two gentlemen , congratulations to you both !
The first for the wise and difficult but correct decision not to shot that lion.
The second for the wonderfull safari you had with your clients and the magnificient trophies taken.
16 January 2013, 13:32
Safaris Botswana BoundThanks Indi ,
I think based on the photos by Bwanamitch we would also have turned the lion down based on conservation and trophy criteria at that time , but from our picture posted our PH made the right call at that time as this lion is at the end of his reign and would not have been the dominant male for much longer , so his harvest was conservation in action. He was utilized before becoming worm food with no contribution to the wise use of our natural resource. The first lion shot was on the marginal side in terms that although it was mature and most likely nomadic at the time , he was not past his prime. These are the dilemmas that the PH must encounter in the field and must make a decision , both in my mind were correct. That said we were very impressed with the lion population of the open Ugalla area.
16 January 2013, 21:32
BaxterBVery nice...I have always liked the pictures with the hunters sitting and the trophies surrounding them...Victorian-style...
19 January 2013, 10:58
fujotupuquote:
Wow! That look s like a safari from the 1970s!
More like the hunters themselves being from the 70's
19 January 2013, 22:32
L. David KeithJohn Martin Venter is a fine PH, several of my clients have hunted with him. Great looking safari for those guys!
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Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......
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