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Originally posted by G L Krause:
I think sometimes we need to adopt the “imaginary face to face†rule here on this board. That is, pretend that you met the poster in a casual situation and they were telling you the story in person. We might not agree and we might remain silent or indifferent or even disagree, but seldom would we blast someone as we have done here.

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Originally posted by Brett:
I use my real name in posts as well.

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But I will give Bwana this credit: he didn't come off infering that his hunt was a free range hunt.

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Originally posted by Bwana91:
Hey guys:

I just got back from a fantastic hunt with Dr. Peter Harris, Dirk Faul and the crew at Ntshonalanga Safaris. www.ntshonalangasafaris.co.za

Here is a quote from their testimonial page: "PeterHarris is a man who speaks only the truth, no false promises. Professional staff, first class equipment with exceptional accommodations and food. All game is hunted fair chase, Peterconsistently harvests only mature trophies. My first choice in South Africa."
Phillip DuBeau

I wonder who's lying?

I went with two friends of mine and we took 3 Lions and 3 Lioness' in one day in the Kalahari Desert. (I think that was some kind of record.) We then moved to another camp and took numerous plains game and a Cape Buffalo. If I ever figure out how to post pictures, I will add them.

I just want to tell everyone that if you want to hunt Lion, or anything else for that matter, at super prices and best-quality service, give them a call or send them an email. Tell them that 'Jeff Osment' sent you. It is the most fun you can have with your pants on!!!

Best regards,

Bwana91

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Originally posted by Jim Manion:

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But I will give Bwana this credit: he didn't come off infering that his hunt was a free range hunt.

I agree. I can certainly understand people's feelings on the subject, but it would appear that there are more than a few assumptions being taken as fact. Unless I missed it, no one knows how long the lions were in the 12,000 acre enclosure. Could have been a week, could have been a few years. No one knows with any degree of certainty whether these were "feeder" lions or game that was left to kill on its own.

There is also a huge difference between "bred in captivity" and "raised in captivity". It seems that a lot of folks are using the terms interchangeably.

Many of these game ranches offer the last best hope for many species in terms of a diverse gene pool and creating a supply sufficient to prevent some species from going on an endangered list.

Take a look at the ranges of game in Africa at the turn of the last century, then take a look at their natural ranges today. If we were looking water supply instead of animals, it would be certified as a drought. Unfortunately, the trend is for further reductions in natural areas.

Game ranches can and do have a role in the protection and propagation of a species. But they are not charitable organizations - they are businesses that must be self sustaining. The hunting community rails against hunting bans and export restrictions. And one of the primary arguments we make in support of our position is that game must be viewed as having some economic value to the local population to survive.

With human populations growing in Africa, there is direct competition between man and beast. Game animals can decimate carefully cultivated crops, pose an immediate threat of death to local populations, and compete for water with human needs. To the extent a local population sees no value in preserving the "competition", than game becomes nothing more than a unwanted guest. Add the protein value of game in areas where malnutrition or even starvation is a reality, or the black market value of animal parts (with no legal market value), and you have a formula for mass elimination of game.

We can look down our noses at game farms, or we can acknowledge that these operations may well indeed be the future of hunting in Africa. At least if we have some realization of the potential the future may hold, we can work to ensure the continuation of game farms while working toward a set of standards that preserve the hunting heritage in Africa to the greatest extent possible.

I think we would all agree that shooting a drugged animal is highly unethical, as would shooting an animal pushed out of its cozy pen a day or two before a "hunt". Shooting game dazed from drugs or game confused and bewildered by the great outdoors does not even warrant debate - it is just plain wrong.

South Africa is certainly on track to address this issue. But the action of any government points to a major issue some here have already addressed - if hunters do not take a stand on the issues, governments will do it for them.

But, in the process of setting standards or guidelines, we must be careful to do so with all of the facts. And one of my biggest concerns with discussions like this is the lack of any real appreciation of what game farms can do for a species. We also need to appreciate that to breed (not necessarily raise) species in captivity, there has to be some economic return to fund those operations. Just as we argue that hunting in general provides economic incentive to encouorage local populations to promote the preservation of game in their areas.

Would I rather hunt on a game farm or on a pure fair chase basis? I would opt for the latter. But I also understand that while that is an option today, it may not be an option in the future. And if we are at all concerned with our heritage, we need to do what we can to first recognize what they future may hold, and second to agree on some standards for game farms in general. If we do not, shooting big game in the future will be done with a camera at a zoo.

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The hunt was in RSA on a 12,000 acre game farm. Trust me the lions were very wild.