Just to let everyone know, Mike Bellm is a jerk and you would be better off not to consider him for doing business with. Below is an email conversation I had with Mike in which I quickly determined that he is a JERK.

Mike,
How long would the wait be right now if I sent my 10 inch contender barrel
in for a rechamber ?

Mike speaking ---I have one other one here from the old back log yet, plus another like yours
I am sliding in. If you want to send yours now, go ahead.

No promise on delivery time, but should not be too long.

I have heavier and heavier demands on me on the domestic side.... better
half's health.... that is the reason I stopped taking custom work for so
long.

Mike

Mike,
Sorry to bother you again with questions but what is your definition of
"should not be too long" ? The reason I ask is because I have had work done
in the past with other people that said the same thing but everyone's time
frame for (not too long) can vary greatly. Thanks for getting back to me. I
know you are a very busy man.

Mike speaking----Don't send it if you have to know when. Easy as that.

I have spent too much of my 24 years harranged about time and have zero
tolerance for it.

Thanks, Mike

Mike,
All I wanted to know was an estimated time frame not an exact date. I
thought you would have been able to say if it would take a month, two
months, 4 months, or whatever.

Mike speaking----Look, the main reason I stopped taking work was because I had a large
backlog when Dee landed in the hospital. While she has had some good days
when she has been pretty independent over the past year, right now she is on
a down swing that has required a lot of my time taking her to doctor
appointments and generally looking after her.

I go half nuts as it is trying to sandwich in work in fits and jerks between
having to take care of her.

She nearly died last year, and is still in poor health.... worse than before
the week on the lung ventilator. How many days she has left, I do not know.
But I do know that SHE is the ONLY one that is going to jerk my chain. You
won't.

If I tell you it will be three weeks and a major turn of events takes place
tomorrow, then I am the bad guy for you to chip your teeth over. It ain't
going to happen. Don't send it if I have to worry about it. How much
clearer can I make it?

Better yet..... like I said before..... don't send it. You made your point.
Time is an issue. That is enough for me to know I don't want it.

Mike

Mike,
How was I supposed to know what you have going on in your life ? What makes you think I am trying to jerk your chain ? If you have to be an a**hole to your customers because of what you have going on with your wife then I believe you should stop working because it's not doing your reputation any good to be a jerk.

If your planning on staying in the business after she is gone, don't you think it would be a good idea to keep your customers or potential customers satisfied ? Being a a**hole will not help things. I was warned not to do business with you because of your lack of concern for your customers but I had also heard that you did good work. I decided to take a chance but now I see I should have stayed clear of you.

F*** YOU and your work. I'll do business with someone else and I'll make sure I let anyone asking about you on any of the many talk forums I participate in that they would be better off never contacting you.

[ 06-27-2003, 08:31: Message edited by: apollo ]

Yup. You're some sort of wizard aren't ya. Can't deal with someone that has enough integrity to let you know he can't give you a date of return.

He told you three times that he didn't want to commit because he had problems at home. What else would it take? Do you need a note from his wife's doctor or a death certificate?

I think we know who the JERK is. It isn�t Mike.

steve

apollo,

Perhaps because of my age I understand Mikes situation. The man tried to tell you that he couldn't give you a completion date and you kept pushing. I agree that your transcript shows there was an ass in the conversation, but I don't think it was Mike. Please let me know what his email address is so I can send him Kathy and my good wishes for her health.

1buba,

You beat my post by one minute. Glad to see my opinion supported. Have a good weekend.

1buba, If you read the email you would see that I never asked for a return date. I only asked for a general time frame. Some folks definition of (not too long) can be very different from others. I only asked for his interpertation. If he wants to be a ass and not answer a simple then screw him.

Apollo,
Looking at the e-mail I don't think you should be slamming Mike at all! He let you know that he was backed up and health in his family was not the best. He also told you that if time was an issue to go ahead an have someone else do the work.
You wanted Mike to do the work because he is good. When you want something bad enough you will wait for it.
Right now I'm having a custom knife made by
Bob Crowder of Thompson Falls Montana, it has taken longer than I had wished for, but you don't see me slamming him on the (Knife Site). I chose Bob because he is a wonderful craftsmen and I respect enough to not hound him over time.
I think you might be wise to relook at the e-mail and try to look at both sides. Mikes personal life and his wifes health problems is none of my business or anyone elses.
I also think Mike was right when he said if he gave you a time frame and did not meet it, you would be slamming him for that too.
This is all just my opinion, but I would hope that it is most other peoples opinion aswell.

I like to think I'm pretty objective so lets see,Party 1 wants to have Party 2 preform a service,#1 wants #2 to give a general time frame for completion, #2 doesn't want to give an estimated time frame because of more important commitments,family(love of his life), especially unforseen emergencies that he feels will come up sooner or later. #1 askes repeatedly for a general estimate of time, #2 finally says he doesn't want to do the job at all, which I'm sure he reserves the right to refuse service to any or all persons he see's fit. #1 resorts to name calling when he doesn't get his way. #1 could state his opinion without name calling, grow up and remember opinions are like as$#^%es everybody's got one and this one is mine.

Everyone that has responded to this subject needs to read the email again. I never pushed him for a exact date. He did not say he had a backlog at the present time. He said that he had stopped taking work but speaks now as if he is taking work. He never said up front that if time was an issue then let someone else do the work. He said it would not be too long. When I asked for an explanation of his (not too long), he then came back with the a-hole attitude. If I was in the business he was in, I would have simply answered the question with something like 3 months if nothing important comes up. It would answer the question and still not put a return date in stone that the customer could throw in my face if the date wasn't met. I can fully understand his situation with his wife but it does not exuse him or give him the right to be a jerk to a potential customer. I was polite in my emails to him and he came off with comments about me trying to jerk his chain. Where the hell did that come from.

What part of "Don't send it if you have to know when. Easy as that." did you not understand?

contendernut, How would you like it if you sent me a barrel to work on but you forgot to ask a time frame for when it would be finished and then 1 year later, you still had not gotten your barrel back. I have seen this happen to several people dealing with various custom gun smiths. I can only assume that by not wanting to even give a estimated general time frame, that I'm probably better off not sending him anything. I may not have ever gotten it back.

Apollo:

Read between the lines: the guys wife is dying and you get your panties in a wad when he is unwilling or unable to give you a firm commitment on time. Give us all a break here, ok. Alright, maybe his first post [regarding when he could have the work done by] was a little short. Geez, based on what we've subsequently learned about the guy's situation, isn't it perfectly understandable? And instead of understanding, you continue to force the issue. The fault is with you my friend---for being a completely insensitive cad. Sorry.

Jordan

Having had many, many guns submitted to smiths over the years for one thing or another, I only wish every one would be this straightforward.

I admire blunt honesty, personally. I've never sent anything to Mr Bellm but I may now!

Redial

And one more thing...

To top it all off, you have to be the complete ass and publicly disparage the man for no better reason than your thin skin getting your feelings hurt feelings. I don't know this Bellm fellow from Adam. But I do know you owe the man a public apology and retraction.

Jordan

Sounds to me like a man with a great deal of love for his wife. I'll bet he gets a mite short with his kids too. The pressure must be horrific. Mike I hope things work out for you. derf

I agree if he is having family sickness he should be given a large amount of consideration.
But lets have a poll on the length of time he takes to do a job and see if anyone ever received his work anytime close to the date specified.
I know I had to wait 9 months for a barrel from him back when he went by Dennis Bellm.
Lets be fair and only consider the time frame before his wife got sick in the poll.Not during so we can be fair.
I still have the barrel he made for me.
Also that is the problem when dealing with a one or two man shop. Any burp and things slow down dramatically.
I hope that his wife will pull out of it and they have many more years together. I can't begin to imagine how I would feel if my wife were seriously ill. It scares me just to think about it.

[ 06-27-2003, 10:04: Message edited by: Meat Plate ]

Apollo,

I've waited for close to two years on barrel work before. If you want it now, order factory barrels or buy it off ebay. If you want custom anything and can't afford to wait for it, you need a different hobbie.

You asked for an approximate time and he told you not to send it if you wanted a time frame. You then asked the same question again.

I don't blame you for asking for a time frame, but he gave you an answer. The answer wasn't what you wanted to hear so you asked the same damn question again.

Apollo,
You are the person we hear about that thinks there is an I in team. Mike is being honest and you want to pin him to the wall. If he said 4-6 weeks and his wife had more problems and he didn't get your job done for 8 weeks you probably would be suing him. As a cancer survivor I can assure you the best intentions can go south in a hurry. Some people understand and then there is people like you that want your stuff done regardless of the situation. I agree Mike was very up front with you and can't commit to any kind of guesstimate. Lighten up as it will take less strain on your physical and mental state.
Orygun

Jordan, Again, I never asked for a firm commit date. Also, it's not that I do not understand what he is going through or not giving a explanation of his statement of "not too long" that has me pissed off about the whole situation. I'm the type of person that does not let my personal life dictate how I will react to or treat other people. Mike must be the type of person that comes home and kicks the dog because someone cut him off at the stop sign on the way home. I asked him to simply define his comment of "not too long" and all of a sudden I get accused of trying to jerk his chain. He also accused me of making a point about time being an issue, which I never did and that I would give him crap for not meeting a date if he gave me one. I never said any of those things. He assumed several things about me all on his own that was never said by me nor intended. He decided based on his incorrect assumptions that he no longer wanted my business. That's his perogative but it's no way to do business or treat people even if he does have a family crisis going on. If he had told me it might take 2 months but if something with my wife comes up then it would be longer, maybe a year. I would have been completly understanding of that. I also feel that several of the people that have responded to this post have also read the part of the email where Mike was making assumptions of what he thought I was doing and believed his assumptions to be true so therefore I'm at fault and now they can't see my side of the story. I still say Mike Bellm is a JERK and it's fine with me. I do not have to do business with him. It's a good thing that I found out how he is before sending my barrel to him.

Orygun Mark, You are also making assumptions about me. What makes you think that I wanted my work done regardless of the circumstances ? I never said anything like that. You made an assumption of what you thought I would do based on something you pulled out of your ass. Now other people will come along and read this post and by the time they get to the end, they will only remember the negative parts and many of them will be statements made by people like you making assumptions about what you thought I was thinking or what I would do in a certain circumstance.

Hmmm, this is one person's opinion and you all know what is said about opinions. He has every right to his OWN opinion. I, on the other hand, think Mike is a friendly, concerned, gentleman. He has leaned over backwards to do a few things for some of us. He has also disseminated information that he well could have charged for, for free. I hope that if his wife is to make a recovery, it be a speedy one. If The Lord sees fit to take her, may her passing be speedy and painless as well. God Bless, Mike. RKBA!

The answer to yur question was "not too long". Don't like the answer go elsewhere. Feel he was short or rude, go elsewhere. Want to post because of it, well everyone has an opinion. But to post the contents of a private conversation about his wifes health, whats wrong with you? I don't know him but I don't think he would want his family business posted on a website. I know some guys take a long time to do work, but they keep getting business because of their reputation not in spite of it. If you ever wanted him to do a barrel for you I think you just lost your chance. Whos loss, his or yours? Mr. Bellem, my best wishes for your wife.

Apollo, Mike gave you an answer and you didn't like it so you ask again and still didn't like his answer. Well the only JERK is the one who kept asking the question over and over. Its to Mikes credit that he gave you an honest answer and that should have been the end of it. Period. He doesn't have to explain his reasons and he did.

Apollo
Any one who has done business with Mike Bellm recently knows that his wife is sick & has caused him to take on work the way he does.

If you want an exact time frame he wasn't going to give it to you. If time is an issue than you would have been better off going some where else.

Mike does very good work. I can tell you that form experience.

I don't think you are correct in posting about him as you have. Hopefully you never have to deal with a sick spose in your life time.

I think you should step Back & rethink things.

Rich Jake

Apollo,
I don't appreciate the way you do business.

Please make a mental note...
In the future, if you are ever tempted to purchase something from my shop, please save yourself some aggravation and go somewhere else, We don't have time to deal with you.

Please tell all your friends too, you can just refer them back to your original post here, that way they will all be able to see what an asshole I really am.

I apologize if this is too difficult for you to understand.

Wes

Apollo, If no one else I understand where you are coming from - with one exception, I don't feel calling someone an a** or jerk is high on the maturity scale. That said, a clarification of time is not too much to ask for. i probably would have told you two(2) years under the current circumstances, then if you get your barrel back early, we are both happy. (Don't we all go back to the resturant that shaves 20 minutes off our wait time?)

I can't speak directly for you apollo, and I've never dealt with Mr. Bellm; but if you listen to him, you would swear T/C should have went out of business 20 years ago (nothing is correct that comes out of their factory).

So, both party's involved may have handled the situation differently. If in your shoes, I'd drop the issue and give Virgin Valley or SSK Industries a try. Good Luck!

Apollo,

I have ordered three barrels from Mike. Yes they took longer than expected or that I had hoped. However Mike was always upfront and honest with me about that. Mike is in a difficult situation with Dee's condition and I believe he attempted to be as honest with you as he could. If you don't want to buy his barrels then don't but get off his back. Your email and post were uncalled for and I think you owe him an apology.

I certainly see where both sides are coming from and I am afraid it has come down to this. I'm afraid using the internet as a connection let to many of the problems, its the wave of the future.

I've never done business of any kind with either man...can't speak to that, but I have had a gunsmith tell me 4-6 WEEKS for a project that took over a 1.5 YEARS!

I truly believe you are both good people, and could have/can work together, just met at the wrong time or got your wires crossed! That's life!

Must be a Troll from the Pond! Mike has taken more time to answer my questions on his own nickle than anyone else in the contender business. I think he has his priorities in order.

Gents,
I have not done business with mike,yet,I will.
He has opened my eyes to sides of contenders I never would have imagined,he gives his opinion freely and tells you up front He will not send your barrel to a forgotten corner. I have been waiting for about a year for him to fit in a rechamber...no biggie either < I have more barrels available> When I get a reply from him to send my barrel I will. Heck I waited 3 years for one smith to get a rifle back to me. If Mike says he is busy I will take his word for it, Not withstanding his other-halves health, I think he is worth the wait. 45nut

Hmmm appolo...

Looks to me like one poster just wants us to get along, and sorry - didn't understand the one about a poll.

However, it also looks like 22 folks think you are an idiot of the greatest order. Grow up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you and what you want. Find someone else to do your work - and to listen to your drivle.

s

Apollo:

Mike may have been abrupt, but he told you the situation and you were not willing to accept that answer. Instead, you resorted to cussing a man who you have never met when he told you TWICE, that is TWO (2) times that he could not promise a delivery date, and you kept insisting that he give you an estimated time for the work. Finally, it became obvious to him and to almost all of us who read your post that he doesn't want your business, and he told you so. So, instead of doing what any normal person would do, which is go to the next smith or shop in line, you cussed him out and THEN had the extremely poor taste to post private emails in public.

I hate to join the crowd on this thread, but it is not Mike (who I don't know and have never done business with) that is the jerk, it is you. I truly understand your time concerns, what I don't understand is your inability to read plain English. If you are that concerned about delivery times, as you obviously are, then the second reply from Mike should have ended the matter. "Don't send it if you have to know when. Easy as that." It should have been as easy as that. Unfortunately some people's ego can't seem to understand why their needs can't be met immediately. ( fade....with sound of baby crying in background)

Apollo,
The man's got alot on his plate right now, and if he wants to be alittle kurt and upfront with you he has the right. I sent Mike a barrel to be rechambered a year ago last February with a 6 month return date, I received it 2 months ago---thats about 15 months. Sure I wanted it for deer season last fall but he had some other pretty important matters pressing. You know what else, I emailed him a couple times asking the status last fall, and he gave me the same answer he gave you---want a firm date I will send the barrel back and you can have someone else do it. Of course I knew his wife was very sick and I have other barrels to use for deer season, and I wanted a barrel rechambered by Mike, cause he does a fantastic job---which he did. The .358 Bellm is a class "A" barrel and most importantly a great shooter. A one man shop with a backlog of work with very few dissatisfied customers---thats the guy that will get my work. Need it back in two weeks send it to SSK and pay the extra money. If you want someone to feel sorry for you, post your first message about this on Graybeards site you may get one or two positive responses to make you feel better. Compassion and understanding goes alot further in dealing with people.

Anyone who would post such a discourse is a cretin of the first order.

All my barrels have come from Mike. Most of them were when he was making customs from scratch. If I wanted a barrel, I would order it well ahead of when I knew I really needed it. I new from past experiences, custom work takes time, if you want it done right.

Some barrels I got in 2-3 months, one took almost a year.

People need to understand, especially with family health problems, a sympathetic attitude can get you a whole lot farther in life. In dealing with health, as I can attest to, you don't know from one day to the other what will or will not happen. This affects your profession/work, and allowances must be made. Mike can not pin down an exact time, nor will he be able to give you an approximate time, until the good Lord decides what is to be.

Mike is one of the best at what he does, and I think you should reconsider your stance.

Just my .02

HBL

I don't think that either party handled this correctly. I don't blame a man for wanting to know a time FRAME, but on the other hand, I would have just walked away after the second or so e-mail. Go to Virgin Valley and never look back.
Boltgun

To everyone here that seems to think that I kept asking for a return date after getting an answer. You are all idots. I guess you can't read. You all must not be reading the email that I posted. Mike was the first to get short and rude. I never asked for a return date. Only for a simple explanation of what his "not too long" meant. Imagine going to the doctor and the doctor teling you that you are going to die. You ask how long have I got. The doctor says not too long. Would you want the doctor to describe a little better what his definition of not too long statement was ? How woud you then feel if the doctor got short and rude with you and told you to go somewhere else if you wanted to know anything else and started telling you that he is not goint to let you jerk his chain. This is all I have to say on this subject. There are people that have read this and agree with me but are afraid to post saying so out of fear of getting slammed by dumb asses that can't read. I have received PM's stating such. Mike Bellm is a JERK and I'm sure some that have read this will reconsider doing business with him.

Name calling is totally uncalled for. If someone emailed you, respond to them by email. There is no need for slander on an open forum. My guess would be that if you met face to face, words would not be that strong.

I think most here were just trying to give Mike the benefit of the doubt. With health problems being an issue, he would be hard pressed to give someone an approximate time frame, much less a due date, which you say you never asked for. He doesn't know from one day to the next what his schedule is like.

You just need to understand what he is probably going through. I do, because I have. If you haven't, you are one lucky man.

Rember...Family always come before anything, whether it be fun, work or whatever.

I can tell you one thing. You won't find better workmanship in a barrel, anywhere!

I have yet to get custom gunwork done when the smith estimated it, and I never got my panties in a wad over it. Perhaps I simply more understanding of people, and realize there are more important things in life then getting my custom gunwork done as soon as possible.

Bullberry took twice as long as they estimated on my barrel, Virgin Valley was about 50% longer then estimated, and my 500 Jeffrey took over 2 years.

I really find it the depth of human depravity to kick a man when he's down, especially when he's down because his wife is terminally ill.

Mike Bellm had the curtousy to reply to your requests repeatedly, despite much more pressing issues on his mind. You simply didn't like his answers, and now want to share with everyone how you were "wronged." Must be tough making it through the day with everyone out there trying to wrong you.

Many folks don't like Mike for various reasons, mainly how willing he is to express his opinions on contenders. Then again, many of us know Mike as a fine and selfless man who will gladly answer your questions about contenders, and even has personally instructed several folks how to chamber barrels, taking his own time, and with nothing in return for him. I've never had Mike do work for me, but have corresponded with him many times, and have gleaned alot of knowledge from him about gunsmithing, and contender barrels in paticular.

No, Mike isn't perfect, and certainly can take awhile to get one's work back. But, he does do fine work, and is honest about his capabilities, and his limitations.

APPOLLO you have a PM