The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Personal Defence And Concealed Carry Which caliber?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Just wondering the most popular choice. | ||
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The .40 S&W is the way to go! The .45 ACP is a dinosaur! | |||
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Choosing the 40 S&W is like choosing the 22 Long vs 22 Long rifle. | |||
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The personal defense expert  "Earth First, we'll mine the other planets later" "Strip mining prevents forest fires" | |||
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9mm is NOT "380" -- They're the same diameter, but then again they're nearly the same diameter as 38 Spl and .357 Mag. I notice that 38 Spl. and .357 Mag. have separate headings. 40 S&W stinks. Hacks me every time I bend over at the range to pick up "45 ACP" brass and discover it's 40 S&W. I don't see 32 ACP or 22 LR on the list. I know of people (know OF them, not close associates) who pack these. Winston Churchill favored the 32 ACP, but then he wasn't exactly in the trenches with the troops. 45 ACP a "dinosaur" ? -- I got yer dinosaur right here, little girl.  | |||
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I agree, I just cannot get into the 40 S&W [Short & Weak]. Truth is IMHO, unless you are carrying some kind of "miniature" gun, a 45ACP LW Commander is as easy to carry as any 9mm/40cal. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I know, that the 9mm and 380 aren't the same, but they are so close that... There is a significant difference in knockdown capability of the 38 spl and 357, hence the separation I didn't think the 32 would show up at all and didn't think it prudent to try and list every available caliber, I don't have the 25 or 10mm on there either or a great many others. Lighten up and vote already, Geez. If you think I mucked this one up start another. I'll probably do another thread, but this is my question: Is the 9mm "enough" to carry and depend on? I don't think so. You can add a few more rounds to the mag, but aren't those first couple the ones that are probably gonna count anyway. I think the 45 is Time Tested and a great many soldiers that are forced to carry the 9mm today are not happy with its performance. Personally, I'm a revolver man, and I wouldn't want to have to depend on anything less than a 38 spl. I also wouldn't want to discharge my .44 with hunting loads in my home and shoot through 4 walls. A Balance is Sought. What is it? | |||
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Originally posted by Wm.S.Ladd: 40 S&W stinks. Hacks me every time I bend over at the range to pick up "45 ACP" brass and discover it's 40 S&W. Amen to that. Originally posted by Wm.S.Ladd: I notice that 38 Spl. and .357 Mag. have separate headings. .357 used to be the top dog on one shot stops. Originally posted by DaMan: The .40 S&W is the way to go! The .45 ACP is a dinosaur! Ignorance is bliss.  ________________________________________________ Never met a Colt I didn't like. | |||
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daniel77 If you are a revolver guy consider the following. In 38 Special the 158gr lead HP has a pretty good track record. In 357 Mag the 125gr [usually Federal] has a pretty good track record. However I am a BIG bore kind of guy.... So I would recommend a 45ACP revolver, or a 44 Mag revolver. In the 44 Mag there are several 44 Special loads that would work, that have little recoil. Also if you are really comncerned with over penetration,then loads like Glaser Safety Slugs or Mag Safe, etc. are an option. There is NOTHING wrong with being a Revolver Guy. Get some speed loaders, and know how to use them. Also if you think you are in REAL danger take a lesson from Josey Whales, carry several revolvers. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Please don't take my being a revolver guy for my thinking I'm taking a back seat to the semi's. I can hit you in the head at sixty paces with my 41 or 44. I don't think I'll need 17 rounds with that kind of performance. In reality, if I'm at home and hear a noise, the 12 gauge gets the nod, with the 41 in my waistband. I believe in having enough gun, which is why I hate the 9mm for Personal Defense. Don't get me wrong, for practicing I think they are fine, and definitely cheaper to shoot than a 45. I love the 38/357 set up for the same reason. I must admit that I've never shot or loaded down for 44 spl, but I do load light for target practice. I also have a brother in law who had a near death experience with shooting through a wall, so I am leery of firing off a cannon. I think the hand holding it has a lot more to do with the outcome than the caliber, make, or model, but I still like  I would also add that if anyone does look down on revolver guys, you should google Jerry Miculek and see what a revolver can do in properly trained hands. I'm not at all claiming his level of competency, so don't send shit my way, but I don't think anyone would stand a chance against his kind of skill. | |||
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Revolvers have become sort of a stepchild in "modern law enforcement". Sad thing is, hits per round fired have gone down. So having 17 rounds does not help you if you miss 17 times. However being able to miss 17 times is seen as safer than being able to miss only 6. I prefer a semiauto for defense for ME in most cases. But I feel the revolver is better if you are in a contact situation. Many times I will carry a revolver if I am on a hunting trip [44 Mag] while traveling, just to cut down on the stuff I am carrying as I know I will be carrying the 44 when in the field. As I said, nothing wrong with being a Revolver Guy. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The handgun was never made that was superior to a pump shotgun for actual "home" defense, and it's a rare intruder indeed who will make you apply a second dose of #6s at inside-the-house range, and they won't blow through many walls. And no criminal anywhere will fail to recognize the sound of that action being cycled. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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While my carry gun is a 9MM, I don't claim it to be ideal under every circumstance. The main advantages are that it has a high capacity and the gun itself is small enough to be easily concealed even with summer clothes. For strictly home defense, I agree with Jefffive, a shotgun would be hard to beat. ______________________ Age and Treachery Will Always Overcome Youth and Skill | |||
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I can exceed the power of factory 357 mag with hand loaded 38sp, 9mm, and 380. I can exceed the power of factory 44 mag with hand loaded 45acp and 40sw, but not with 10mm. I can shoot double powder charges in 32acp, but that still does not exceed anything. | |||
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You can exceed the power of factory 357 with reloaded 38 spl, 9mm and 380? No freakin way! I don't want to be holding onto that gun when she blows. A 38 spl isn't designed to handle 357 power. You can shoot 38 spl in a 357, but you should NEVER shoot 357 load in a 38 spl gun. You shouldn't even shoot 38 spl +P in one unless it is labeled as a +P gun. That includes reloads. I won't even get into the 9mm or 380. I can't see a 40 s&W competing with a 44 either, (btw a 10mm has more juice any day over the 40, no question, look at the cases side by side and you'll see the 10mm is a fair bit longer, the increased recoil is why the FBI didn't choose it over the 40 s&w). You may find a hot 45 that competes with a light 44, so I won't go there, but the 40 doesn't get there for sure. I'm not trying to be confrontational, or come across as some supreme expert (I sure have a lot yet to learn), but I must call BS. The only "exceeds the norm" situation I know of that you can always get away with is the .45 long colt in Ruger revolvers. Only in the Rugers can the 45 be loaded to exceed 44 mag. Other than that, you are asking for trouble. Once again I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I see that you stated can, maybe I'm saying you sure shouldn't. | |||
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.380 because the KelTec is sooooo small and easy to carry. But I am upgrading to a Walther PPS. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I have Hot Rodded the 45 ACP a fair amount [before I know better] and could not get it near the 44 Mag. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Back when I had the Firestar 40 S&W and Black Talons were first out the 180s were the cats ass. That little gun shot exactly where I pointed. Notice I said pointed. Don't think I ever aimed it. It was one of only 3 handguns I've ever owned that were good point shooters. The other two were old plum colored Ruger blackhawks in 45 Colt. One a pre-warning. Andy B We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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The max load for 357 mag is 8 gr Power Pistol 158 gr. M1903 [Husqvarna 1907 9mm Browning bushed to .380] old blow back pistol 1) Winchester ammo 95 gr. 805 fps 2) WSP, 8.5 gr. Power Pistol, 158 gr. XTP, seated to 1.090", 1158 fps, 1187 fps The max load for 44 mag is 15.5 gr 800X 200 gr When I shoot 15.5 gr 800X 200 gr in a 40sw, the volume for the powder is smaller, the pressure is higher, and the velocity is higher. You can't do that with a large primer 10mm case, because the case design is too weak. What does it all mean? I have been overloading guns to see what happens for a long time. What have I learned? What can't be found in books. ------------------------ | |||
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I have been carrying a P3AT for a few years. I can only get 1100 fps 90 gr Gold Dot 6.2 gr Power Pistol, is the most power I can get, because of the poor case support. I have just started a week or two ago carrying a Kel-Tec PF9. If I carry it just like a P3AT, it still feels light. It has allot more power: Kel-Tec PF9 1) 124 gr FN Honady bullets and 10 gr Power Pistol. 1336 fps. 2) Hirtenberger +P+ 1275 fps 100 gr 3" barrel It also kicks harder too with the handloads, but carrying for protection, not comfort in shooting. | |||
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you seem to be comparing admittedly way over max loads on the one hand and factory loads on the other. I'll refer you to this link. I don't think you are comparing apples to apples, and I still can't see how your comparisons are possible. I sure don't see what is to be gained by learning what isn't in books. What will you say when the worst case happens? And these are all strait walled cases. Not a design change like the WSMs versus standard mags. With a strait walled case, more capacity = more power. A 380 isn't even close to a 357. A 9mm is closer, but there is still quite a gap. Another poster said he'd been trying to get his 45 acp closer to 44 mag and never could. Look at the ballistics and the 45 acp has a good bit of ground to make up. Case capacity means a lot, and it seems to me you are claiming to get more performance out of cases that are 20-30% smaller, I can't see it. I sure wouldn't advise it. Best of luck. I hope you keep both your hands. http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm | |||
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Joe Waldron is a pro gun debater who presses the flesh. When he sees me, he asks if I have all my fingers. He has been doing that for 10 years. I have no use for Chuck Hawks, but not all gun writers are bad. I like De Haas and Ackley. | |||
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The bigger hole you blow in the target, the better chance you have of slowing him down. I call your attention to this FBI report on handgun wounding effectiveness... http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm | |||
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A good friend of mine is a general surgeon who did his residency at Parkland Hospital in Dallas. He's not a shooter at all, but based on his many hours in the emergency room, his view is the 9MM is somewhat lacking as a lethal man-stopping round. He said the 45 seemed to do the job most of the time. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Someone else quoted a warden who said a bunch of his prisoners had scars from a 9mm, but the only 45 caliber holes you see are in the morgue. | |||
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Its hard to argue with big heavy slow bullets. A 230 gr jhp or even hardball out of a 45 acp works pretty good, even up to 300 lb opponents.....  This guy was wounded by the young man in the picture. I was showing the boy how to follow a blood trail when this guy charged us from about 8 feet away in a cedar thicket. I pushed the boy out of the way, the hog went between my legs and knocked me over. Lucky he didn't hook me or come back to finish the job. The boy said he didn't want any more of this. I followed a ways further with my glock 36 in my hand this time. When he charged again I put 7 hardball rounds into him and he dropped at my feet. Talk about puke factor. GWB | |||
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Well done. That had to be fun.  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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You are correct. I know of a lot of people shot with a 9mm, many from a MP5, that lived. The few that died were shot mostly in the face/head. Every shooting I know from a 45 ACP resulted in death. Same for the 44 Mag. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I voted for the 45acp but i also carry most of the others. Don't care for the 40, it's neither fish nor foul. Ain't much better them a 357 Mag and ain't no 45acp. " If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand which feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countryman " Samuel Adams, 1772 | |||
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As much as I love the .45 ACP, someone ought to design a .50 ACP on a 1911 action. | |||
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Ditto! Argghhh! | |||
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Agreed on the .41. I have two 57's, one too fancy to shoot, but I carry the other in my truck most of the time loaded with JSN's. Shot placement is everything. Spray and pray and miss. Carefully take one shot and hit. I'd carry the .41, but it's just too big to hide in Florida with our normal wardrobe. Mine, anyway. T shirt and shorts. Second choice is one of my .45's. It conceals cleanly in an IWB. I watch these newbies banging away with their 40's at the range and missing at seven yards. I guess they've been watching too many movies. | |||
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 It is kinda fun to watch isn't it?________________________________________________ Never met a Colt I didn't like. | |||
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Lavaca, Guncrafter Industries makes a 1911 in .50 GI with a 300 grain bullet @ 860 fps. | |||
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Don't underestimate the stopping power of a 9mm. I like 45 ACP, 44 mag., for sure 12 gauge, 7.62 X 39mm, and "rifles" for defense. But I have a Kahr MK9, and it gets carried, because it's small enough. Same, same for the Smith Mod. 60 in .357 mag, and even the NAA Guardian in 32 ACP. The hand cannon won't do you any good if it's so big you won't pack it around. And on that note, I'm a fan of having the "big gun" as backup in the vehicle. | |||
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http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm Handgun stopping power is a myth. Suggest you click the link and read the FBI's report. | |||
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lots of good info above. I pack ultralight weight 38spl +P for my personal--very concealed gun. It is so lightweight and concealable, you place it in any pocket and be comfortable. I also will use some times a 40 Keltec. it is one of the most concealable semi-autos on the market (in 9mm, 40, 45) home defense is another matter, short barreled (but legal length) shotguns are great, also, I like my Glock 40--mdle 35 comp gun.nothin sweeter than the smell of fresh blood on your hunting boots | |||
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tnekkcc, there was a fellow named "Clark" here on AR a long time ago. He also posted a lot of very dangerous reloading data. Are you and "Clark" related? I think he got kicked off after a while | |||
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IMHO, having done multiple gel test, having hunted for many years, I think anything 9mmLuger or above will do. CISSP, CISA, CRISC looking for a IT Security/Audit Manager spot | |||
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