The Accurate Reloading Forums
"Cute" engraved messages on your guns....something to consider........
21 March 2016, 18:29
Gatogordo"Cute" engraved messages on your guns....something to consider........
I'm not taking any position on this, so don't shoot the messenger.
quote:
Can Gun Inscriptions Be Used Against You in Court?
BY: Daniel Xu + POSTED: 3/18/16
Thinking of getting an inscription or engraving on your firearms? One of the first questions that many gun owners often ask is if these inscriptions could be used as evidence against their character in court. Since many people purchase firearms primarily to protect themselves, this can be a big concern—and as one case in Arizona shows, those inscriptions can certainly be used against you.
Mesa police officer Phillip Brailsford is currently charged with the second-degree murder of Daniel Shaver, who was involved in an on-duty shooting earlier this year. According to Tuscon News Now, the shooting happened in a hotel room after police received a call about an armed man on the fifth floor of the La Quinta Inn. Prosecutors say that the weapon was actually a pellet gun used by Shaver for his pest control job. Officers found Shaver at the inn and ordered him onto his belly, during which he reached for his waistband and Brailsford shot him five times. The shooting was recorded on a body camera worn by the responding officers.
In court on Tuesday, Brailsford pleaded not guilty to the charges, but a new piece of evidence may may hinder his defense. A police investigation following the shooting turned up a service rifle used by Brailsford that had a inscription on the inside of the rifle’s dust cover. Officials say that Brailsford personally purchased the rifle and used it for police duties. It is believed to have been the weapon used to kill Shaver.
“Inscripted on the officer’s gun, and I hate to use profanity, but it said, “you’re f*****,”’ Laney Sweet, Daniel Shaver’s wife, said.
Sweet’s lawyer argued that the inscription implied that Brailsford “was enthusiastic” about using the rifle to kill people.
“He executed Daniel Shaver. He murdered an innocent man,”attorney Marc Victor told KPNX. “The victim wants Officer Brailsford treated like everyone else.”
The Mesa Police Department said in a statement that the inscription was against the department’s policy and that an investigation is underway. Mesa Police Chief John Meza also expressed his concerns over the situation and recommended that Brailsford be fired from the department. This is in direct opposition to a previous statement by Brailsford where he said Chief Meza supported him and agreed that the shooting was justified. Brailsford, who is the son of a veteran police officer that once served in the same department, said he was shocked by the charges.
“It’s just a really tragic situation,” the officer’s lawyer, Craig Mehrens, told The Arizona Republic. “my client is not guilty.”
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When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.
NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.
I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
21 March 2016, 18:44
p dog shooterThe very same can be said for signs, bumper stickers or any thing else that might be used to show that one is trigger happy.
Or statements made on the computer remember anything you put on line can be used against you.
21 March 2016, 20:14
Big Wonderful WyomingI am a retired military NCO and former Federal Agent and Alaska Police Officer.
Bad decisions with a firearm will make you or someone else dead.
It is unfortunate to say the least that this happened.
You are accountable for every bullet you send down range, this is a terrible tragedy.
As far as "cute" statements on a firearm, I don't have anything like that on mine. Probably wouldn't, but if a guy wants to do that it is up to him.
21 March 2016, 21:58
Idaho SharpshooterI think that "five times..." is what's going to hang him.
The ejection port door motto isn't going to help things.
21 March 2016, 22:13
p dog shooterquote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I think that "five times..." is what's going to hang him.
The ejection port door motto isn't going to help things.
Five shots in a defensive shooting really isn't that many.
It is all about if the shots were justifiable.
21 March 2016, 23:56
butchlocjust think if it had blaser engraved on it
22 March 2016, 01:24
crbutlerquote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
just think if it had blaser engraved on it
Then we wouldn't be having this conversation, as he would have missed the target altogether.
23 March 2016, 09:57
georgeldRich:
A friend and local Swat cop here faced a guy opening the door with a gun in his hand. Cop buried 12 or 16 rounds from his clip in the guy. His partner put a few more in at the same time. DA: "Man was paid for when he opened the door to face the cops with a gun in his hand".
George
"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"
LM: NRA, DAV,
George L. Dwight
23 March 2016, 21:13
MacD37Different but one other thing is the use of hollow point defense loads in your firearm. This is a sensible ammo for self defense, but if you use them, and I certainly do, if you are in a conflict, the first thing you need to tell your lawyer is,
"
My licenses instructor told me that the use of hollow point ammo is to avoid a shoot through hitting another parson, because a hollow point rarely shoots through the target perp hitting some innocent person!"
This is so the lawyer can contest a the prosecutions statement in court that the hollow point was an indication that you wanted to kill the Perp, rather than just stopping him!
Courts are ruthless when they want to prosecute someone, and will use anything they can find to make you look bad for the jury.
...................................................................
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982
Hands of Old Elmer Keith
23 March 2016, 22:28
Texas KillartistALL you need to know if you unfortunately have to shoot someone "I feared for my life".
24 March 2016, 00:07
Gatogordoquote:
Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
ALL you need to know if you unfortunately have to shoot someone "I feared for my life".
and "I want a lawyer".
xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.
NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.
I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
24 March 2016, 01:42
Macs BI know a Tanzanian gentleman who saw fit to engrave his classic Krieghoff double with opposed scenes of bunny's doing the nasty! I believe he refers to the rifle by its proper name "Bunny Lovin'". I can not imagine the difficulty he had convincing Krieghoff he was serious when placing that order.
Macs B
U.S. Army Retired
Alles gut!
24 March 2016, 04:09
Beretta682Equote:
Originally posted by Gatogordo:
quote:
Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
ALL you need to know if you unfortunately have to shoot someone "I feared for my life".
and "I want a lawyer".
And no stupid postings on Facebook or any social media sites.
Mike
24 March 2016, 06:37
lavacaMac is absolutely right on hollowpoints. Overpenetration is not your friend and is a source of potential liability even if the shooting itself is totally justified.
17 June 2016, 10:53
tasco 74quote:
Originally posted by Gatogordo:
quote:
Originally posted by Texas Killartist:
ALL you need to know if you unfortunately have to shoot someone "I feared for my life".
and "I want a lawyer".
this is the advice i got a long time ago from an old friend of mine who is the county sherrif here.........
First - remember that jury members learn all about
guns from TV and anti-gun media !!! They " know " that HPs are to kill !
09 December 2017, 20:13
MarkAs a follow up, I guess it is not that bad if you can afford a good lawyer as the officer was found not guilty, he did get fired though:
https://www.azcentral.com/stor...r-killing/927052001/ The engraving was not allowed as evidence as it was considered to be prejudicial. Also interesting to note that one of the other officers has retired and moved to the Philippines.
for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
11 December 2017, 19:12
Gatogordoquote:
moved to the Philippines.
Because Philippine women can be incredibly sexy and that's just the start of the problems. When he runs out of money, he'll be back.
xxxxxxxxxx
When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.
NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.
I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
13 December 2017, 07:32
DCS MemberThis came up while watching a CLE titled “What Every Texas Lawyer Needs to Know about Firearms Law.” Masaad Ayoub (the former cop/gun writer) is an expert witness now. He had a few stories about the engraved messages.
I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.
Marcus Cady
DRSS
19 December 2017, 05:15
Fjoldquote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
Different but one other thing is the use of hollow point defense loads in your firearm. This is a sensible ammo for self defense, but if you use them, and I certainly do, if you are in a conflict, the first thing you need to tell your lawyer is,
"
My licenses instructor told me that the use of hollow point ammo is to avoid a shoot through hitting another parson, because a hollow point rarely shoots through the target perp hitting some innocent person!"
This is so the lawyer can contest a the prosecutions statement in court that the hollow point was an indication that you wanted to kill the Perp, rather than just stopping him!
Courts are ruthless when they want to prosecute someone, and will use anything they can find to make you look bad for the jury.
...................................................................
I use the exact same ammunition in my carry gun that the local sheriff (my issuing authority) uses.
Frank
"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953
NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite
10 April 2018, 16:04
tiggertateEven if you're not arrested you still face a possible civil suit from the next of kin. In that arena those more aggressive customizations can cost a whole lot of money if they contribute to a judgment.
13 April 2018, 08:07
NormanConquestAlso by Massad Ayoub's advice as well as others,that do NOT carry handloads in your defense pistol.The tales of the DA talking about how factory ammo was not powerful enough so you loaded your own intending to kill , ad nauseum ,are legion.Carry the factory loads + keep the box + the extra rounds in it.When it goes to the lab,that info might save your bacon.Also,I carry a Kimber 1911 + not my Les Baer because one thing that you can be sure of is that you WILL lose that pistol.Maybe get it back,maybe not.
Never mistake motion for action.
09 July 2018, 04:06
boom stickSooooo with this line of thinking, you should put "I only use in self defense when I cannot retreat" on all your guns. If they are using flair as intent, then why not flair as a defense?