quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Bill, did you ever chance to see an unedited manuscript from Elmer Keith? I have always wondered.

A friend, James Watts, had a box of letters from Elmer. Most early elementary kids can write better.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Military experiences very quite a bit. I am guessing that you have not been in the military with millenials?

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not, but I served in the 80s. I do employ a lot of millennials, but frankly, don't see why they are criticized so much. The ones that work for my software company are all hardworking and don't act entitled at all.

Wasn't mean to be derogatory, you have a lucky bunch if that is the case.

quote:

When I was in Officer Basic the Army had a program called "The Army Effective Writing Program." It seems too many officers were writing in the passive voice.

USAF had the same thing in the 80s. Many seemed to think writing in the passive voice was sophisticated. It wasn't.........just wordy and slow.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by INTJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Yes, I had to copy edit a lot of white papers for our staff of Air Force and Army Colonels and Navy Captains. We had a Marine Major, that had taught as a Navy ROTC Commander at some college in Virginia. He was exceptional, I never changed a word.

One of the O-6's was a F-14 pilot, one a artillery officer, one was a B-1 pilot, and one was a nuke missile commander. O-6 fighter pilots are probably about the cockiest people in the world.

I have known quite a few of them, and all of them have been amazing people and some of the smartest people I have ever met. Everyone of them spends a lot of time telling you that they are in charge, and walking around with a measuring stick that shows them as the tops.

I met a couple of SPECWAR Navy SEAL and Green Berets O-6's and O-5's in my day. Drastically different group of men.

I have worked with a lot of O-6 and higher fighter pilots. Every damn one of them treated this crusty old Major with respect. Worst attitudes I saw tended to come from high ranking enlisted and wannabe fast burner field grade officers.

As to writing, from day one of AFROTC they taught us to speak clearly and plainly. That always works. However, I didn't know anyone still subscribed to a print magazine.

When Precision Shooting went away, so did my interest in print magazines. Rifle and Handloader quit having useful information for me in the early 2000s. I do get American Rifleman electronically, but I rarely read it anymore.

I never said they weren't respectful.

You are right about Senior NCO's toward officers. I have seen it a thousand times when I was enlisted. As a civ, I have seen it a lot more. They seem to be getting worse.

One of the USAF Big Mouth F-16 pilots I worked with was a cool cat, he loved enlisted but had similar stories of the BS he went through with senior NCOs in the USAF.

I found enlisted aircrew to be top notch. I think the issue some senior NCOs and fast burning wannabe officers had with crusty field grade officers, especially pilots, is that we did not let decorum get in the way of results and it was impossible to baffle us with BS. We had no issue pushing back and that would often blow up their carefully contrived plans that didn't make sense.

I have this philosophy that if a job in the military is officer centric (like fighter pilots), then the senior enlisted go out of their way to crap on the junior enlisted for power. That was the way the EA6B community was. I was a civilian in a F-18 squadron, it was the same way.

In P-3's the senior enlisted were better, and didn't stab one another in the back to get ahead as much. We also deployed to the warzone for over half of the time I was in those two commands. They were the best commands I was in (well in Aviation anyway).

My non squadron jobs were a mix. A couple of intermediate maintenance depot full of enlisted on shore duty and 1-2 officers were the two worst tours I ever had. Too much time on their hands for BBQ, special projects (painting the school, cutting grass) and some shops had tons to do for the mission while the others worked on special projects.

Embassy duty was mostly good, but it trained me to be a civ when I ended up getting hurt and retiring. I worked for four O-6's, and an O-4 Marine. All of the O-6's had their ups and downs like people do. The pilots were all fighter pilots, except for one who was an Army Draco pilot. He was true gentlemen.

My problem with the current batch is with the editing, not necessarily with the writing. Any editor worth their salt will know "We seen them deer cross the valley but one of them was acting different" is horrid in it's grammar, but most would just let it slide. That is why I do not buy written publications. I would dump the NRA garbage, but the label is required once a year for membership proof at the range I belong to. (Or, at the range to which I belong)

Also, the word 'up' should be deleted from most people's vocabulary. It has become a useless filler word. One does not start up, meet up, grow up, etc. They simply start, meet and grow, along with all of the other iterations and bastardazations of the word. (Yes, I made that word myself).

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
(Yes, I made that word myself).

And you misspelled it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
(Yes, I made that word myself).

And you misspelled it.

Well, since you said it, let's not forget he spelled "its" incorrectly as well when he complained about horrible grammar.

But Larrys, I hear you on using extra words - often, but not always, driven by the passive voice.

I agree with Cal and Arizona Gun writer..Todays scribes have very little actual hunting experience by comparison and some claim more than they actually have..They impress the beginner and youngsters perhaps and that's a good thing..

I am personal friends with some of todays and yesterdays writers, I knew Bill Jorden well, I met Atkins a few times when I was in law Enf in El Paso, I knew Finn Aagard well, George Hoffman was a very close friend, Phil shoemaker is a very good friend and one of my favorite gun scribe of all time. Jack O'Connor hunted on our ranch for Mule Deer and Coues Deer and tried to eliminate our population of Javalina without success, in the Big Bend area of Texas..He was the best off hand shot Ive ever seen to this day and my mentor so to speak, Have some good stories on Jack..Ross seyfried is a personal friend and the most knowledgable writer I know of, with vast experience in the hunting field including 11 years as a PH in East Africa as I recall..I met Keith on one occasion, after which I read his books. I loved to read his stuff but some of it was pure BS such as riding a bronc until he was bleeding out his nose and ears..been on too many to ever believe such nonsence.

All these old boys had experience and opinnions and I loved reading them all for the most part. Ive worn out Finn Aagards Hunting Rifles and Cartridges, I still wearing out Boddingtons Safari Rifles.Ive only met Boddington on one occasion but he has been around the horn more than once and I like his stuff..Lots of good African scribes also, some not so good.

Todays boys still have to make their bones and get some real experience behind them, and hunting Cape Buff with a pistol and chasing it all over the concession shooting it over and over again to prove it can be done is not a redeeming virture IMO.

Perhaps given time the newbies will aquire some fame and experience, I would hope so and wish them all the best.

I agree on the "it's", but one cannot misspell a word one makes up themselves. Ain't that right? We all seen it before in them magazines that have no clue what them adverbs are and why thay ain't ending in -ly any more.

Besides, this thread is not about my abilities, but the piss poor abilities of the current crop of writers and editors. I will admit that I stopped reading all of them. I get more from this site.

Even the damned beer commercials..."spelled different because we are brewed different". Really???

Keith was born and raised in a place where literacy wasn't near as important than making a living in a game rich time and place..He could spin a story and true or not it was damn good read'en to this young cowboy who wasn't and still barely literate..I loved to read Elmer and Jack..they were icons.

Bill Jorden made a critical mistake in life that all but ended his career, I won't go into that but it happened and was unfortunate...