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Beautiful animals! Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Love the Tahr and Elk  Can we have details on the rifle?"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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Totally agree with you TP, beaut tahr and elk. 375 AI is plenty of power for the job. Can't complain about that. | |||
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Thanks,bullets looked rather big,i was thinking 338 "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | |||
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Sorry Ackley Improved we are not all that nice not when you helihunt anyway. You used Gary Herbert? The deer and elk hunts, thats your business I have no problem with those hunts. You took your tahr by helihunting on public land, I even recognise the valley, Harvey Huttons helicopter is a bit of a give away? Because you used Herbert you supported a guide/ outfitter who is threatening New Zealand recreational hunting access on public land. Money you paid your guide helps pay the legal fees to attempt to install helihunting on public land. When you support Herbert you threaten my New Zealand hunting heritage, helihunting is legal for a little longer anyway but its not welcome in New Zealand, its mostly tourists like you who engage in it. Often the guides dont explain the issues either but have no doubt you are not welcome to helihunt in New Zealand I would remind you that May 2009 SCI outlawed the use of a helicopter to drive animals such as tahr. Maybe you were aware of this maybe you did not know. I dont care either way just know that if you support Herberts helihunting business on public land you are not welcome amongst New Zealand back country recreationalists, or hunters. It is not a real hunt report unless you really know what the locals think, no doubt Gary told you to keep the helihunt details subdued didn't he? Ask yourself why that is? I almost feel sorry for you and I dont even know you but I won't read your post and not comment honestly either. | |||
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 ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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You are correct, it is NZ laws and NZ guides that allow helihunting to be conducted. You are incorrect about the negative attitude of NZers towards animals on public land. Its our own fault helihunting can occur but its supported only by 16 guides and a lawyer at the moment. Its incorrect to imply we are willing for it to happen. NZ hunters are attempting to change the laws in relationship to helihunting and ban it. Every helihunt conducted by guides helps install helihunting a little bit deeper on public land and your hunt supports that happening. So dont be upset when a NZ hunter points out helihunting is an activity we would rather do without. You have encouraged us to change our attitude install hunting seasons and limitations and stop helihunting but you still helihunted and accept no responsibility ? How does that logic work? Only if you consider NZers backward enough in game management to let it happen and you choose to take advantage of that Would you still hunt tahr if there was no helihunting ? You made a choice between a ground hunt and a helihunt, what influenced your choice? | |||
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An interesting take, helihunting is not the majority veiw of how hunting should be in New Zealand, the opposite is the case. Only 16 guides want helihunting Every conservaion Board in NZ is opposed to helihunting The NZ conservation authority is opposed to helihunting Every hunting group in NZ excepting those 16 guides which includes Gary Herbert is opposed to helihunting SCI is opposed to helihunting I hope you did not record your bull with SCI, you might have a little trouble with that. Helihunt flights are tracked and recorded on real time GPS records, its pretty easy to examine the track and know if pursuit of the animal took place, did it? Even the Department of conservation who have only issued helihunting concessions under legal threat from lawyers representing helihunters have grave reservations on helihunting. Its the vocal or in this case the cashed up lawyer supported few who conduct their activity against public will on public land.
Did you know that by taking that bull in the national park you participated in the culling you condemn. 5 nannies will be culled for that bull you helihunted, an agreed deal proposed by your guide to give you that access. You and your guide must take responsiblity for the "rampant" culling you despise.
You choose to believe that 16 guides represent the majority veiw of New Zealanders and New Zealand hunters when thats clearly not the case. You poor scorn on New Zealanders for permitting poor hunting management practises you consider inferior but take advantage of them on your hunt..... Hows that work?
How sustainable do you think the game resource will be if you kill 5 females for every male ? or does the culling need to happen ? do you know ? Mostly Gary is busy shutting down the recreational hunter camps and access on public land if he can, here is a direct quote from Gary Herberts company complaining he has to compete against recreational ground hunters. "(ref applicant comments appendix 10 “ more recreational hunter campsites means more opportunities for conflict, once you bring in concessionaires own mitigation procedures then much of the landscape is ruled out, effectively excluding industry”)" Do you think us recreational hunters in our ground hunting camps are getting in the way of you guys in helicopters too. I dont think we will be getting out of the helihunters way anytime soon. There is more to this helihunting in New Zealand than you have been told and you really don't want to listen do you ? | |||
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In all honesty it is 16 guides of which your guide is one, and a lawyer who have manipulated a loophole in legislation to allow you to hunt your tahr from a helicopter. Here is a link to the minutes of the Canterbury Conservation Boards meeting to determine whether helihunting is a suitable activity to be conducted in Mt Cook national Park. The Canterbury conservation Board also opose helihunting. Canterbury conservation Board Minutes Feb 2010 "In December 2009 when the department started investigating this issue it put out a draft background paper to identify the issues related to heli-hunting for public comment, in order to get feedback and identify any issues it may have missed. This is not an end discussion document it is an initial starting point in an open process to get public comment. From that paper the department received around 102 public comments. All of those, apart from one, were opposed to heli-hunting." I can link you to the New Zealand Deerstalkers association who condmen helihunting, SCI, Game and Forest, The New Zealand conservation Authority, The West Coast Conservation Board the Otago conservation Board as many as you want they are all opposed to the manner in which you conducted your tahr hunt. Find one organisation in NZ apart from those 16 guides who is comfortable with helihunting in New Zealand. Unless you can substantiate your claim of widespread acceptance your argument is poor. | |||
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Its hard when you keep altering the same post, is it too difficult to post consecutively ?
I live here remember?
Unlikely... the threat of the deer and tahr menace is an old saw produced by helicopter operators and ironicaly they are the people flying you around, not the farmers. We produce and export 480,000 to 600,000 farmed deer carcasses a year and about 12,000 to 15,000 more from helicopter shooting. There is no shortage of skidbiters who want to shoot noxious animals from helicopters. There is a significant difference between helicopter shooting for meat recovery and helihunting. Meat recovery has been around for years. Helihunting did not exist as a concession till 2 years ago when NZ hunters requested that the activity be stopped and legal challenge by the helihunters allowed the activity to continue against widesspread opposition. Helihunters asked for 10 year concessions and got 2 instead, till we can change the law and finish it for good and all.
In the matter of helihunting that is exactly the case and no-one here deludes themselves otherwise with any fiction from a visiting tourist like you
If there is one constant in your changing threads and words its condescension (sp) to NZers. You dont like the truth I have laid before you. You could have asked questions I would have explained gently to you some things but you did not. You attempt to fabricate justifications and they turn out to be less than honest. I know their less than honest there are no facts to back them up because the missconceptions you hold and have advanced could only have been formed from contact with guides and no-one else. So I guess its not entirely your fault. | |||
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Disingenous to the end, and still not listening, My idea of comedy is a guy who visits another country and deludes himself he is a hunter by shooting tame stock in a paddock, or tahr after herding them around in a helicopter. The next comedy is when you try to convince someone who lives in in that country with an extensive backround of the issues thats how they want it (the tahr bit at least anyway). Have a nice day  | |||
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 Spot on W. Its a laugh how willing these guys are to advertise their lack of skill's as a hunter with their claytons trophies. Your picture's tells us this is a person not worthy of any respect, your words confirm it AIU. Keep the justifications coming, they are really quite amusing. | |||
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I really dont care either way what happens on private land I actually think the animals are grand. But it is funny, these guys in camo shooting animals that can be stalked by rattling a tin full of grain feed  | |||
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Hold onto that jealousy delusion, its the last refuge of the failed chequebook  Both Shanks and myself could buy better animals anytime from the wholesaler and put them on our own properties to shoot for less than you paid. There is a fire sale on for trophies like that here in NZ  | |||
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Heli hunting   | |||
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Yeah, i'd be a hypocrite to make a judgement on the stag or Elk, hell only a few days ago I myself shot a Steer in the paddock behind my house for the freezer. Shooting a farm animal is just that, it's reared for that purpose. its the Tahr thats the issue. | |||
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I dunno that pig with the .22 was a riot of a video you put up, I shot 3 of my bucks before I yarded the rest of the fallow for TB inspection, kept the master buck, I am C8 now. Went for a walk on the weekend climbed 1600 meters saw 5 reds no decent stag though, 22 chamois which was aswesome and one bull tahr, all on public land took 2 juve chams because there were no big heads and we wanted some meat. With a resource like that to protect why would you not give sickly improved a serve there is a helihunter setting up down near me they wont last long now. | |||
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Ha Ha, yeah the pig was a riot all right. Could use it here to illustrate a point I guess.Yep I wish I lived closer, I often pine for those hills. Got down for a solo trip myself in February. Spent a week clambering round public land just over the hill from where AIS flew round one morning. Took this guy.  First bull with the bow, an old, old battler, not a tooth left in his mouth  I don't have a magnificent veiw in the background because I could hardly move him. Cool Aye. | |||
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But no New Zealander's heli-hunt, it's only travelling shooters who do,so what do you mean "do as the Romans do"? I'm glad you enjoyed NZ but you must know that you didn't hunt anything here, you just shot a few farm animals and killed a tahr in a fly by. You might as well have run it over in your rental car. As much as you'd like to deny it the other guys here are right. New Zealand hunters, and even the general public, do not accept heli-hunting. I'd prefer to be complimenting foreign hunters who visit here rather than critising, but I can't bring myself to condone this practice. | |||
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A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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I thought I would put these up they will help inform Helihunters advance their case Reply to helihunters The outcome and where its leading | |||
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AIU, are you a real hunter or a guy who dresses up in hunting gear and just shoots an animal that has been farmed or hereded by a chopper? I do not claim to be a tropy hunter. But I would be ashamed to claim a trophy that has been shot behind wire or one that has been hereded by a chopper. My only red stag is a mature 3X3 that was roaring when I stalked it. I am very proud of it and show it off to all friends who are into hunting. I shot it in a true fair chase hunt in the Ahimanawas in wet windy weather after 3 days of hard hunting. I was soaked to the skin for 6 hours before I saw the stag and shot it. I then spent the next 4 hours gutting, quartering, removing the head and walking back to camp with the head and one leg. I was so exhaused that I could hardly stand. Yes, I am VERY PROUD of that hunt and that stag. There is no way I will even consider the possibility of claiming that shooting a 20+ point farm raised animal as a better "trophy" or a better "hunt" than my 3x3 stag. Now for the tahr. I am into my 50s and 2 years ago I went to the south island with a young friend and chased tahr. I walked up a rapid stream with a full pack for 4 hours and reached the bivy. My fitness level and ability were very limited. But I hunted hard. I am proud of my nanny tahr because I really hunted them and workd hard for them. They were not hered by a chopper. There is no way that I would claim a "trophy" that was herded by a chopper. Are you a REAL hunter who hunts free range fair chase wild game or do you just shoot penned up anuimals raised on a farm or hered by a chopper?
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I am so wound up about this issue .... I am struggligh to be polite Let us look at some scenarios. In NZ it is illegal to shoot from a vehicle or spot light at night on public land. So how come it is legal to herd an animal with a chopper and shoot it and then claim it is trophy hunting? Second point - Prostitution has become legal in NZ - yes by an act of Parliament. Does that mean that all New Zealanders either become prostitutes or solicit prostitutes? What kind of a man claims fame and boasts a conquest of a sexy beautiful prostitute? What kind of a man earns a living by legally selling such a woman? I have no moral condemnation of the women themselves who make such a choice for their own reasons. Just as I do not condemn the animals that are shot under such controlled circumstances. Makes one wonder .... "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Ahh it aint that bad its a personal choice, guys that hunt big heads on private land they are fine doing that. Personally I was not too bothered. The issue is not the trophies, its the conduct on public land and the scorn for our poor game management while still taking advantage of that same poor management that got a serve. That is an awesome trophy by bow Shanks, very very nice we had some good weather in Feb thats for sure. | |||
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The only reason Gary Herbert doesn’t have a negative attitude about wild animals on public land is that he can make big dollars from “visiting shooters” like yourself from a public resource that he doesn’t have to buy unlike those farmed red stags and wapiti bulls that he has available on his estate hunts. I have no problem whatsoever with visiting shooters that want to shoot animals behind the wire, nor do I have a problem with a helicopter being used to cull animal numbers when animal numbers become too high on public land, but I have major problems with heli-hunting on our public land when it impacts so much on other recreational users including hunters. Check out this petition:- http://www.gopetition.com/peti...ting/signatures.html As for the helicopter operator involved in your heli hunting trip, do a NZ google search on Harvey Hutton and you will see from these articles the type of good law abiding citizen he is. Below is an extract from an email I was sent from a NZ hunter who had just returned from a tahr hunting trip, where he camped up high and put in the hard work looking for a good bull tahr. This type of conflict between helihunters and recreational ground shooters is far too common on our public land. This is why I have nothing but contempt for helicopter operators and guides involved in this type of activity and the visiting shooters who support it. The sooner it is banned the better! Cheers Neil, stayed up on Cloudy Peak Range, so had the best of both sides, big days though!Mainly juvy bulls hanging around the nannies, with the exception to the good bull with 2-3 nannies, would have seen close to 25 good shootable bulls, (still hanging out in 2-3’s)but was after something 13’ or better. Was just getting into a shooting position on a real ripper when Brian Mc Bride just about landed on top of the group of bulls he was in, with helihunters, he soon peeled off when he saw me, but that’s hunting now days, hope you have a good trip.Normally I don’t rain on someone else’s parade, but it’s the attitude of hunters like you and the the helicopter operators and guides who conduct these hunts that makes these hunts continue to be viable in New Zealand. | |||
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Where'd he go?????? | |||
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I think someone is thinking twice about you guys being the nicest people in the world... Lorenzo | |||
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 This may appear cruel to onlookers but its not even close to the dismay that you feel when you have slammed through 12 hours of westland scrub then camped for 2 days in the rain to have the sun break out and have someone like Ackley fly into the basin you are hunting. To make it worse these guys actually display contempt for us because we let them and their guides do what they do. | |||
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I understand you. I hope NZ law changes quickly and ban those helihunts soon. I think that anyone can hunt whatever way he wants if it is legal. But I think that it was not a smart idea to post a picture with the chopper behind the trophy as it is a very sensitive issue for every NZ hunter, but I also believe he didn't know how serious was this thing for all of you and was just trying to share his trip with us. To avoid this things happening you must write the truth involved behind these "hunts" in every possible internet forum to keep hunters away from buying these "hunts". Educating foreign hunters will help to end the helihunt business. L | |||
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So very true Lorenzo. Also thank you to all those hunters from around the world who do understand. | |||
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Why don't you self righteous kiwis look to your brethren who market and sell the hunts of which you are so critical? Ganging up on a guy that booked a hunt with your countryman, spent considerable monies in your country, flew your national airline, and bragged on your country and its people as friendly and accommodating deserves better than the vinegar and venom you local experts have spewed over, across, and upon what was previously a trip filled with good memories of your land and its people. When we ultimately lose the right to hunt it will be because of dissension within the ranks of the hunters and the sportsmen . . . dissension like what we see spread across this thread on this forum. Poor, poor, poor. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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We have and that was acknowledged, the main question was and still is that Ackley had a choice to helihunt or not, why choose to helihunt ? If he was better informed of the issues he may have not have. Helihunting guides are notoriously light on details in regard to their basis for business. Helihunters applied for specific concessions to conduct their business,these have been declined on three seperate occasions 2005, 2007, 2009 I believe. Gary Herbert was SCI International Professional Hunter of the Year in ohh... 2006 was it ? there was not even a specific helihunting concession then. Helihunting was carried out disguised as another activity altogether. And then this tragedy Helihunt resulting in death of American was illegal Under coronial oath the truth came out. We want it stopped but its taking time, helihunters have money, lots of it they hire the best lawyers on the other side is us ground hunters. It would help if ethical hunters visiting New Zealand shunned their helihunting business.
We can do without the tourist dollars if the activity is unwanted by the majority of New Zealanders and it certainly is. Paedophile tours could brag the benefits you just claimed for helihunts but that does not make them right either. Income alone does not justify an activity. I attempted to explain the issue to Ackley and he was just not interested was he ? dont ever try to tell people in their own country how its going to be, you might upset them. I dont think too much venom was used till after Ackley started using the terms "deluded" "naive" "moron" and other such expressions all that for trying to explain how it is. No-one can complain about getting flamed as he was after that.
So its dissension if we point out problems with guided hunting in New Zealand and its cohesion if we sit by silently and let tourists support and conduct a hunting technique we New Zealanders are opposed to. Hows that work ? Uhh I do see now how it works ... so far its only lawyers in New Zealand and lawyers overseas who seem to be the guys supporting helihunting guides | |||
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I think you're confusing us with someone else - don't you know, we're the nicest people in the world!  We are certainly bringing pressure upon those who are marketing and conducting the Heli-hunts and I believe firmly it is only a matter of time before they are stopped, but visiting hunters like AIU who support these guides and helicopter operators are only prolonging the process. Normally, as I said before I don't "rain on someone else's parade" but when AIU proceeded to set himself up as a expert on the hunting scene in New Zealand and tell us kiwi's how lucky we are to have guides like Gary Herbert and visiting shooters who target trophy tahr on our public land, it made my blood boil and still does. The helihunting saga and outrage by NZ hunters toward it, has been well doccumented on this forum and others in the past and there is a post at the top of the Australian and New Zealand Hunting Section on this forum and yet we have another visiting shooter who posts a report with photo's of himself with his "hard earned trophy" on public land with a picture of the helicopter in the background. We genuinely welcome hunters to New Zealand, but not if they are involved in helihunting on public land and I would like to point out there are other hunting guides that are not involved in helihunting that can offer very good tahr hunts on public and private land such as Highlander who posts on this forum and Chris Mc Carthy of Lake Hawea Safaris. But we can all do our part too, by educating and informing visiting hunters that this is not hunting, but shooting and far more likely to cause hunters to lose the right to hunt than the dissension you mention on this thread! "Helihunting is shooting not hunting and is totally unsporting!" Heli Hunting | |||
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Mr Safarilawyer, if the person in question had hunted the thar in a ethical manner this thread would be very tame indeed. He chose to kill the thar in the manner he did and therefore he wears the criticism. | |||
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I disagree. Moral relativism can only go so far. At some point one has to say what's right and what's wrong. I think if we all blindly support any form of hunting, however morally repugnant, we'll be more likely to lose hunting rights. Remember Safari Lawyer, most of us don't necessarily oppose shooting behind the wire which does have a place. It's the encroachment of heli-hunting on the rights of the public that we oppose. Try to imagine if you had a hunting block on public land in Alabama that you'd scouted and put a lot of effort into. You finally see the animal you've been tracking for a few days but then all of a sudden some bloke flies in and pings it from next to the chopper. How would you feel? | |||
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Better get some more popcorn Bakes, I had a phone call last night, a helihunter has been caught with guide and client poaching tahr in a closed area  Probably going to be after easter or longer even before I can mention anything | |||
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Fantastic news! Now let us see who among his friends defend him.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Will, I would like to respectfully disagree with you. As an immigrant of 20 years, I have come to really appreciate the kiwi tradition of hunting hard, wild country even for meat. I started hunting the tough NZ bush at the age off 36 and it has been a steep learning curve. I was 39 years old when I shot the 3X3 red stag mentined in the earlier post. I found the original poster's comment justifying helihunting really offensive because heli hunting is NOT the same as helicopter culling or game recovery. Heli hunting is a commercial exploitation of a public resource buy using elitist methods. This puts the local hunter at a disadvantage and even interferes with our hunting activity as mentioned in one of the earlier posts (where a chopper tried to land a hunter among animals being stalked by a land based hunter). How would you feel if someone landed a chopper among trophy animmals that your were stalking after 5 or 6 hours of hard mountain hunting?
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I don't think this thread has been to bad at all. Both sides have had their say and behaved themselves generaly. I've noticed AIU has deleted his pictures and thats his prerogative to do so. Its a touchy subject with our Kiwi mates and if AIU had only read the sticky thread up top of the forum page then he might of known that he would be "poking the cat" when he posted his hunt report. ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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