[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nakihunter:
You know the answer Nige - zero.

But then I will never claim the Feral Aussie Water buffalo is as wild and dangerous as the true Wild Buffalo (Bubalis arni).

I find it really amusing when people make such claims and then get touchy when corrected!


I suppose the next logical question is how many Bubalis arni you've shot.

Hopefully none as they are endangered.

They are also supposed to be the basis for the
"other" water Buffalo !!!

I have a set of horns on my back porch just like the Bubalis arnee in the photos on the net.

TO KEEP THE THREAD ON TRACK I HAVE REPOSTED THIS FROM THE DISCOUNT HUNT AREA


BEST WAY TO TAKE THIS HUNT

MY OPINION ONLY

Best flight in is Brisbane saves 3 hrs. In flight as opposed to the Sydney entry to Australia option

And at 15 hrs. That is a factor when you may be able to do it in 12-13 hrs.

Allow 3 hrs. to clear your guns and bullets in Brisbane before you head off to Darwin

Then on to Darwin I recommend getting in at noon or 1-2 pm taking a room at the airport hotel and sleeping off the travel



Have your Ph. pick you up at 4.30 am to 5 am Sunday morning drive out its 6-8 hrs.


And you will want to see the park, the rock art, the river systems and the geology of the north end on the way to camp ---

So that burns up Sunday get in to the cattle station and settle in for an early start Monday morning

Take 100 rounds of ammunition and arrange for an additional 200 rounds to be available for pickup in Darwin gun shop by;
THE Ph.

on the way out of town, or you will be crying for bullets and bidding them up to 10 usd a round by Wednesday noon when you are all out of the 11#’s the airline allowed you to bring

Monday you hunt with
a guide Tony the station manager
an aboriginal guy Johnny 55 YEAR OLD 125 pounds real out back native great humor and a movie actor in the movie --10 canoes -- you may want to watch in on you tube before you go it’s all about the 9,000 square kilometers you will be hunting

Then you and your hunting mate, if its 2 of you that go for a fee of $6,500 usd,

you will be riding around in a Toyota small pickup truck and it’s easy to get out of and stock of to kill buffalo Johnny has just spotted for you which none of the rest of us in the truck will have yet seen


--until you learn how to sort out one black ear at 200 yards in a cathedral forest of paper bark trees you will require the impeccable services of Mr. local hunter guide.

the driving on roads and hunting tracks from Monday to Friday will include covering some 1,500 kilometers of road track trail and road less scrub land

[We only got “bushed” up one time in a full week you may not be so lucky]

You will kill as many buffalo as you can hit and knock down so take hard bullets

The 2 man hunt includes 100 cull buffalo the one man I took in 2013 was 75 buffalo 35 to 40 is enough more is full time 5 days of hard work but you can get er done in the last hrs. of the last day of my hunt the cull count was 84 head

DO TAKE A DOUBLE RIFLE AND RELOAD IN CAMP IF YOU AND YOUR HUNTING PARTNER HAVE GOT EM

NEXT YEAR I AM TAKING MY .577 DOUBLE

AND A FRIEND TO ACT AS A GUN BARER


Christ I would have loved to take just one ½ day off to go crocodile egg spear fishing


Ammunition I shot was 270 gn 375 ruger Barnes x bullets I reloaded at 2,500 fps a short 22” barrel Alaskan rifle in and out of the truck is just the ticket

However a cz 375 H&H with 6 down one in the tube and 293 rounds in the back seat would be the best THE CAMP RIFLE IF YOU WANT THEM TO PROVIDE THE GUN

Do get the export permit for your rifle and any bullets or brass you plan to take home before you head back

Barry can do this for you on Wednesday while you are still hunting this is critical export license for your firearm

ALSO the freight on the return flight from camp or the cattle station will be a killer at $10 au per kilo for all wt. over 13 kilo so you may pay 300 usd for the gun box and the travel bag to get back to Darwin and if the light plane cannot make room guess what you ain't leaving without your gun are you mate


So just drive back as well it will take about 1 1/2 hrs. More time than driving over caching the plane and clearing the luggage

Also about the same price

And any way the guys in camp like an excuse to go to Darwin after babysitting you for a week

After all it is a dry camp -- who would not need a drink or two at that point

Good people, good hunting grounds, good shooting, and hell of a chance to get a personal tune up with your go to rifle.

You will learn a lot about killing buffalo in a week and 250-300 rounds of hitting meat


My all in cost was:

2.4 k air Salt Lake City Utah to Darwin au and return
8 k hunt
1k extra bullets
1k tip
1k all the this and that --- before during and after hunt

Gun permits .2K, cigars .3K, hotel Darwin .2K, a splash of whisky .XX K, one night on the town in Darwin .2K, – DO NOT --MISS THAT BAR HOPPING RUN


1.5 k getting from and back to Darwin {in and out of the cattle station}
DRIVE IN .75 K, FLIGHT OUT .6K


So about $200.oo usd PER BUFFALO

Here is what is funny -

Claiming that a feral water buffalo is wild and dangerous like the Wild buffalo (Bubalis arni)

It would be as funny as some one claiming that hunting feral pigs is the same as hunting Wild boar

Or hunting feral goats is like hunting Ibex or markhor

or hunting feral cats is like hunting wild cats or caracal ......

BTW any Markhor on license Matt???

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
You know the answer Nige - zero.

But then I will never claim the Feral Aussie Water buffalo is as wild and dangerous as the true Wild Buffalo (Bubalis arni).

I find it really amusing when people make such claims and then get touchy when corrected!

Well how do youknow any different to the next person? What's so funny?

Perhaps you saw a domestic water buffalo somewhere and are confusing that with what we have in Australia? Not sure where you get your info from?

Are you saying that these arni buffalo in India have never been captured and domesticated... cannot be?

Frank:
I keep getting you mixed up with Mike thinking you're from up north. Both made similar hunts about the sametime this yr I think. Different ranch's though. He went with Matt.

What airline did you ride on? Both ways? Suppose Denver would be any cheaper?

All great info for those of us thinking about making such a trip.
Not a chance of ever having ammo for my rifle arranged for as it's a stray. Only one other .358U/M I've ever heard of. Do plan to use solids of at least 250gr, maybe more IF I can either turn 'em myself or find 'em on the market somewhere. Oh yeah, I got two 13oz merc's in the other day, one will balance it out just right with the 7oz in the forearm. Got the scope in today, Nikon 2-7x32. Should be just right for the range. You guys that have been there, what do you think? Am planning on blowing a wad and getting the spendy Conetrol mounts/rings. Another $200. Still hoping to finish the rifle up for about $1400 or so.

Oh yeah, been going to ask if you brought, or are shipping any of the heads or hides home. IF so, at what cost and hassles?

Matt: come on mate, don't sucker into another a/h distraction. Trax is enough!

Wish you all well, and please continue the good info and more pictures too.
George

I've had skulls and capes shipped from OZ, it wasn't a big deal. Actually it was bigger deal at this end, but now that I have a broker who knows what he's doing even that was easy.

Frank and I are different people, but just to add to the confusion I'm going on his hunt next year and he is at least looking doing mine. We are both members of the "Australia is the new Africa club".

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Only one other .358U/M I've ever heard of. Do plan to use solids of at least 250gr, maybe more IF I can either turn 'em myself or find 'em on the market somewhere.
George

Woodleigh make a 225gn and 310gn Solid.

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:

Oh yeah, been going to ask if you brought, or are shipping any of the heads or hides home. IF so, at what cost and hassles?

Costs about a grand plusclearance in the USA - give or take a couple hundred depending on what it is exactly and weight.

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:

Matt: come on mate, don't sucker into another a/h distraction. Trax is enough!

Long standing dispute. At least Naki hunter has actually hunted something a couple times, unlike Trax.

THE NEW AFRICA

where you shoot your own trophy

ha

quote:

Originally posted by stradling:
THE NEW AFRICA

where you shoot your own trophy

ha

Ya, what's with that?

Must try it sometime

THE NEW AFRICA

where you shoot up all of your own ammunition

and an equal amount of the PH's

just to get to Friday

ha

Did you go with a culling belt, ammo pouches or just stuff your pockets full?

My advice.

Have a belt or ammo loops and have your dump and pump (extraction and reload) sequence down pat and
totally committed to muscle memory.

Trying to get ammo out of a pocket in a firefight can turn into a nightmare.

Especially so when you are trying to keep an eye on the Buffalo which can piss off bloody quick once you open fire.

Jut my HO.

I was thinking that a trap shooters vest would be second nature to someone that has shot many thousands of shells that way. Even get a little recoil protection in T-shirt weather.

Guess no reply from Frank on the flights and horns etc.

Mike: Think I might have it figured out now. You're up north in cold country, he's in Salt Lake. I've been there many times. Even had a couple girl friends there long ago. Hot SOB around mid August too. Try "making a mile" when loaded over 90,000lbs across that desert sometime. Started out in Sacramento with a dozen brand new Michelins 11:00x15. Didn't even make it to Toole with the first six scattered all over the hwy and lakes. Oh yeah, desert fills up with water too. Amazing place.

Wish you all well, and thanks Matt.

George

505:

What's the link to Woodleigh?
All I get on google is bullshit links of ads.
Thanks.
George

I had heavy cotton shirts with Velcro pockets

the ruger had 3 down one in the tube
I had a ammo rack on the stock that took 6

so I went out with 10 in the left shirt pocket 10 in the right 6 on the rifle stock 3 down one in tube so 30 or a box and 1/2

loading on the move we ran out of ammo once and Barry made an ammo run back to the truck and then returned to the killing zone while it was still hot we learned from that and started packing a box plus from that time forward

ammo in the truck --- not much good

I will send you a few pictures of our culling belts for the double rifles that I am planning to take over next year

I have Joe Smithson fixing up a Remington 700 with a 10 round clip and bottom parts to go with it

this will be re barreled in a 375 ruger

as we can get it to feed with the ruger cases quite well and its about the same ballistics as a 375 H&H

a SET UP OF 4 clips of say 10 rounds will run well in a hot spot

as it is a push feed the Remington will also feed the reloads from the top better than a control round feed like my ruger

it will be--- is much smother for the quick shooting --we are well along with the rifle mod now

and it should be a great culling set up

when I get it built tested and running right I plan to import it to Barry for him to own as a camp rifle

that way all you--- left hand shooters-- that want to fly to the north end via Singapore can do just that no guns just show up and shoot

Georgeld the woodleigh bullets can be ordered by one of the local gun shops and you pick them up on the drive out

we are working up a fund to stock presses and dies to load up key calibers in camp

Tony said he would develop a room [space] to set the equipment up if we were to make such a commitment

and we are


that will leave you with the need to have
brass
bullets
primer
and powder

shipped in to one of the 3 gun stores in Darwin and picked up on the way out of town

there is time in the afternoon and evenings to load up 40-60 a day and that's enough to keep a guy running all week

I will just say

it is hard to pick up the brass when you are in the morass of a gun fight

you will get some of it back but you ain't going to get it all

PLAN FOR THAT

Matt

I have said this before and I'll say it again. Please don't risk your good reputation by trying to compare the Aussie buffalo with the Wild buffalo.

The Assam Wild buffalo (Bubalis arnie) can get as big as 6' 6" at the shoulder and up to 3000 lbs! That is bigger than a gaur and much bigger than a cape buffalo or the Aussie feral buffalo.

I am not sure if the Wild buffalo has been tamed in recent times. But I have seen village bulls that are progeny of wild bulls crossing with village cows and they are ferocious! It is impossible to control these hybrids that occur in the border villages.

Wild buffalo bulls are off the tiger's menu but the tiger will kill gaur! Even a 300 lbs tigress will kill a bull gaur. But not a wild buffalo! However tigers and even leopards kill the domestic Water buffalo.

The wild buffalo is really aggressive and ferocious. They kill forest guards and people who go into the sanctuary to cut grass - every year. They charge riding elephants in the National Park & the elephants panic and run.

All these are just NOT the attributes of the Aussie feral buffalo!

Yes I agree that the Aussie buffalo is a great trophy and I am sure it is fun to hunt and can sometimes charge. But they are NOT in the same league as the WILD buffalo!

If I see at a pub I'll shout you a beer and we can debate this some more!

quote:

The Assam Wild buffalo (Bubalis arnie) can get as big as 6' 6" at the shoulder and up to 3000 lbs! That is bigger than a gaur and much bigger than a cape buffalo or the Aussie feral buffalo.

I'd like to see that. 6 foot 6 in and 3000 lbs ?

All the data I have read (since this discussion began) has them up to about 2600lbs / 1200 kgs.

FYI, Big Bull Australian Water Buffalo (for want of a better name) can easily reach a ton
and I wouldn't be surprised if they reached 1200kg.

I was only looking at a couple of photos the other day of two I shot that would push 1000kg.

The rest of it is a discussion that is going round in circles for ever and a day !!!

Nige we are both talking about maximums for the 2 species.

The average feral buffalo will not be 1 tonne & the average Wild buffalo bull is - as you said - around 2600 lbs - standing over 6'2" at the shoulder.

the point is that they are 2 different species - one is domestic gone feral and the other is WILD.

I cannot understand the fuss about this clear & obvious difference!

505:
Kind of like those 1200# bull elk huh?
Naki: Any pics?

Far as 6'6" at the shoulders and 3000#. Dad had a charlais bull that beat that wt and was mighty close to that height. I faced off with him at six feet in brush halfway up my thighs. When he growled at me, I threw my ball cap & hit hit between the eyes hard enough my wife heard it from 50yds. The bull reared up and turned to run right past the herd and Dad going up the road. When we got up to the corrals Dad told me: "watch that white bull, he'll take you". The next week he dressed out 1800lbs. That's about half live wt. So yes, "just cattle can damned sure be that big".

Frank: I'm expecting not to find all the fired brass and will have enough I think, and I plan to take my own dies along.

I have some extra loading presses and would be willing to donate one, maybe some common dies if you'd be willing to do the shipping over etc. And please list what they would like to have. Might even come up with a decent balance beam scale. Let me know by e'mail, ok?

Would it be possible to take a jug of powder and box of primers along too?

Mike: Thank you for the link. Going there now.
George

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
The average feral buffalo will not be 1 tonne

1000kg is a tonne.

For someone who hasn't shot any and probably not seen too many either, that is a big statement.

I hate to think how many Matt has seen, killed, cut up and probably weighed so it will be interesting to see what he says.

When you hunt for meat, be it human or pet,
we quite often weigh what is taken so get a
fair idea of the weight of the animals.

The older bulls with thick, thick necks
and big bodies are not extreme, they are
normal.

Suggest you get out on the flood plains
see 100 - 200 Buffalo at a time then the
big one's (bulls) really stand out.

No George you can't fly powder and primers in with you. They'll need to be picked up locally there.
Airlines maximum for loaded ammo is only 11#.

Thanks Mike:
I learned that 11# deal going to FL in '11.
Had about twice too much, had to call my buddy to come back and pick them up. They cooperated easy enough and he just had to tell them his name and what he wanted. Amazing huh?
That was in CO Spgs.

Matt said powder costs $45/lb in the NT.
From reading about this 358U/m, looks like7828? or whatever that number is, is the one I want. I have a full unopened jug of it here. Along with several others. I had just stocked up on 8 jugs before I got sick last yr.

C ya, thanks.
G

more photos of the hunt

http://s181.photobucket.com/us...20Hunt?sort=3&page=1

Thanks Frank:
That Johnnie sure is a skinny dude huh?
George

What I found about Australian component prices is that for practical purposes I could double whatever I paid at home and it would work out fairly close. I've got powder cans with $50 price tags in Darwin.They come in 1/2 kilos instead of pounds. Its not exact, and I can aggressively price shop at home, but close enough for government work. There are some exceptions, like Woodleigh bullets that are cheaper in Canada than Australia. I also never thought I'd see Norma factory ammo that cost less than blue box Federal.

Gun and scope prices seem to be 50% over Canadian prices and about double what an American would expect.

You may have ask for a tube or bottle of powder, or a packet of primers or bullets but with a local Aussie to English translator you'll eventually figure it out. It's kind of fun.

I'd say you are right about the $50/500g in Darwin. $45 morre likely down south in the major capitals. Darwin is really just an outpost.

Ok, if we'd land somewhere "down south". Could we bring it to Darwin by plane? IF so, why can't we bring from home? Yeah I know, stupid bullshit laws huh?
Thanks for the input guys, do appreciate it.

Matt: sent you a pm the other night asking about Tex's store. I tried to e'm to his addy listed and was rejected. Do you have contact info? Thanks mate,
George

quote:

I understand the concept of rapid shooting groups of running game, did it for good number of years on different crop raiding ferals.

My hunting companion can testify, that I cleaned up small groups of fast moving Emus at like 200yd, with my 300weatherby.

Yes we would 'down' pest animals and continue shooting the rest of the mob, then finish off whats still kicking on the ground.

Even the large boars I took while recreational hunting in Cape york, were properly drilled while fast on the move at 350yd.

Trax,

How does one shoot a fast moving Emus at 200 yds?
Damn, this must be a mean feat?
Show us one of these or the mob that was finished off.
We South Africans do not know what an Emus is other than that it resembels an ostrich.

Shooting fast moving wildboar at 350 yards is unthinkable for me.
This is way out of my skill capability.

Santa Claus

Santa

"How does one shoot a fast moving Emus at 200 yds?"

The same way you shoot any running animal, give it plenty of lead and pull the trigger.

You need to body shoot emus to get them to drop.


350 yards on a running boar is good going and
I know people who could do it, like you, way beyond my capability.

FYI, shooting boar with a rifle like he uses off a bipod on top of the roof of a ute is well within the realms of possibility.

I take shots at moving foxes out to 200 - 250 yards if it is a clear shot and they are moving in a straight line where it is easy to "swing onto and through them" before pulling the trigger.

Stubble fields are a good example for both foxes and running boar.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:



350 yards on a running boar is good going and
I know people who could do it, like you, way beyond my capability.

Not regularly though... Trax was just tooling himself as usual

Matt

Best one I ever saw was Marrakai, I could not hit this pig on the run with a 500/465, he was to my right and behind me and let rip with his 450/400, bang flop, boar rolls over.

Open sights, on the run, I thought 180 yards, !!! It was one hell of a shot.

people need this to be more than it is to help them define self

its a cull hunt, a trophy hunt, or the once in a life time cape buffalo hunt no mater

shoot well pay attention and things will work out for the most part

drivel off and they may not work out

for bell- for me- for you

in Africa- Australian- then- now- in the future

will it help sell hunts at a high price to make it feel more exotic, dangerous, uncertain

yes --- will that change reality

no

if a man wants to buy a green suite, turn on a green light

or sell him a black death hunt in Africa

and tell him he is a real man now that he has killed one

charge him 20k

and by god he will buy in to the religion

yet in his gut he will know it is just another cow

and a cow could kill you too if you give it a chance

thank god its not a Holstein bull- because those bastards are dangerous

and some of us deal with them, every day

gun not included

I'm definitely planning one of these cull hunts!