quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
...But then, how many USA manufacturers load for the 6.5x57R?

None. Not much demand. Maybe here’s why.

quote:

From Sierra’s Reloading Guide:

Although it is a mildly popular cartridge in central Europe, the 6.5x57mm is an all but unknown member of the Mauser family here in the United States.
Of the same basic design as the far more popular 7x57mm Mauser, the 6.5x57mm never served as a military cartridge. This, perhaps as much as any other factor, may explain why the 6.5x57mm waned while other members of the same family (and several other very similar cartridges) flourished.

Despite the lack of popularity, the 6.5x57mm is a good cartridge. It is well balanced, like most of the other cartridges in its class. Giving a good return of velocity for a relatively modest amount of powder, it also delivers moderate recoil and good barrel life. With a case capacity very close to that of the 6.5x55mm Swede, the 257 Roberts (its first cousin) and the 260 Remington, it is suitable for the same types of game.

Even with all of its positive attributes, the 6.5x57mm sits in the middle of a very crowded field.
With so many similar cartridges being more readily available, it is doubtful that the 6.5x57mm will ever achieve any notable success in the United States. Some European arms makers are still chambering it, and ammunition is available from RWS.

I know several people who hunt with the 257 Roberts cartridge or the 257AI; however I only know two or three people who even own double rifles and those are chambered for dangerous game cartridges like the 500 NE. Most stateside hunters I know find doubles overpriced. I can have a couple REALLY NICE bolt guns for less than the price for one double, and the bolt guns will hold more than TWO rounds…

6.5X57 & 6.5X57R

'Tell ya what, Flippy: in between your self-quotations and your pontifications on your preferences, why don't you just tell us what we should shoot so that we can make you happy?

Btw, I do use fountain pens, on occasion. I hope that meets with your approval.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
'Tell ya what, Flippy: in between your self-quotations and your pontifications on your preferences, why don't you just tell us what we should shoot so that we can make you happy?

Btw, I do use fountain pens, on occasion. I hope that meets with your approval.

Sorry if I reiterated myself (do you know what that means???).

I was afraid you could not grasp what I was saying and that you would miss that I already said it once so I “quoted” it, so it would be EXACTLY as I stated it before.
I apologize. Apparently you CAN read…

Are you ready for the comedy?

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Just read an article in a US gun mag that was about the top 10 deer calibres (its been done to death I know)All the calibres were of US origin. No 6.5x55/7x57/whatever, am I the only one out there who thinks most of the common US calibres are boring?

This is the funny part.

You read a US gun mag about the top 10 deer CARTRIDGES (not calibers or calibres, CARTRIDGES), and all the CARTRIDGES were of US origin (not calibers or calibres, CARTRIDGES).
WOW! Shocker…

I suppose if the gun mag had been an AUSSIE publication, the top ten deer cartridges (or kangaroo cartridges) would have been some incarnation of the 303 British necked up or down, a .222 Remington with a 24 or 25 caliber (not cartridge) bullet inserted or a 100+ year old EUROPEAN CARTRIDGE.
WOW! Shocker…

I own some obsolete rifles with their equally obsolete cartridges (not calibers or calibres) and I shoot them and I have even ---GASP--- hunted with them.
Do they kill deer? Yes.
Have these cartridges been killing deer (and ELK) for a 100 years or better? A couple have.

Would any of these all but obsolete guns or cartridges be my first choice for a deer excursion 3 states away from my home? HELL NO!

And if you wish to call doing what the “old timey” cartridges do, all the while doing it faster and more efficiently, boring, so be it.

I suppose that’s what you get for reading a US gun mag.
Maybe you should publish your own?

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Btw, I do use fountain pens, on occasion. I hope that meets with your approval.

I forgot to add, I don't really care if you use fountain pens. I just don't want to know what you use your fountain pens for...

Lets play nice now , boys , or else take your squabble off to the Political Forum.

Its got kinda off topic now and heading for a name-calling spree ......

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
...But then, how many USA manufacturers load for the 6.5x57R?

None. Not much demand. Maybe here’s why.

quote:

From Sierra’s Reloading Guide:

Although it is a mildly popular cartridge in central Europe, the 6.5x57mm is an all but unknown member of the Mauser family here in the United States.
Of the same basic design as the far more popular 7x57mm Mauser, the 6.5x57mm never served as a military cartridge. This, perhaps as much as any other factor, may explain why the 6.5x57mm waned while other members of the same family (and several other very similar cartridges) flourished.

Despite the lack of popularity, the 6.5x57mm is a good cartridge. It is well balanced, like most of the other cartridges in its class. Giving a good return of velocity for a relatively modest amount of powder, it also delivers moderate recoil and good barrel life. With a case capacity very close to that of the 6.5x55mm Swede, the 257 Roberts (its first cousin) and the 260 Remington, it is suitable for the same types of game.

Even with all of its positive attributes, the 6.5x57mm sits in the middle of a very crowded field.
With so many similar cartridges being more readily available, it is doubtful that the 6.5x57mm will ever achieve any notable success in the United States. Some European arms makers are still chambering it, and ammunition is available from RWS.

I know several people who hunt with the 257 Roberts cartridge or the 257AI; however I only know two or three people who even own double rifles and those are chambered for dangerous game cartridges like the 500 NE. Most stateside hunters I know find doubles overpriced. I can have a couple REALLY NICE bolt guns for less than the price for one double, and the bolt guns will hold more than TWO rounds…

6.5X57 & 6.5X57R

The point I was trying to make is that it is horses for courses.
No, the 6.5x57R doesn't do anything that the 260 Rem won't do. However, it had been doing it for the best part of 100 years before the 6.5-08 A-Square came along...

The 270 Win? Now thats a fine cartridge. The 338 Win Mag? Arguably the best Sambar cartridge available. The 7x57R? Most of my deer have been taken with it. The others? A 7mm Rem Mag, a 9.3x62, a 338 Lapua and a 35 Whelen took the rest.

Of all of them I kept the 7x57R. Nothing obsolete about the way it puts deer on the ground.

JMHO.

quote:

No, the 6.5x57R doesn't do anything that the 260 Rem won't do. However, it had been doing it for the best part of 100 years before the 6.5-08 A-Square came along...

It seems to me that among cartridge developers, "improvers", and wildcatters, there is no end to reinventing the wheel.

quote:

Why dont you help establish the Shooters Party in QLD?? There is a group trying to do that just now... while QLD doesnt have a state Upper House the idea is to run a heap of SP candidates in certain marginal seats and put some serious heat on the incumbents.

The Shooters Party has also contested the Aust Federal election in 4 states (in the last Fed election), including QLD and had some major wins, holding out filthy Greens (hack-spit) candidates. I mean ACTUALLY stopping them from winning a seat!!!

In the next Fed election the Federal body will now be called the The Shooters and Fishers Party (S&FP) - hopefully garnering even more 'outdoors vote' in the Senate race... QLD is a hot target for this...

Get in and help folks!!

I don't have enough time to do the things I want to do now Matt

quote:

You read a US gun mag about the top 10 deer CARTRIDGES (not calibers or calibres, CARTRIDGES), and all the CARTRIDGES were of US origin (not calibers or calibres, CARTRIDGES).
WOW! Shocker…

I suppose if the gun mag had been an AUSSIE publication, the top ten deer cartridges (or kangaroo cartridges) would have been some incarnation of the 303 British necked up or down, a .222 Remington with a 24 or 25 caliber (not cartridge) bullet inserted or a 100+ year old EUROPEAN CARTRIDGE.
WOW! Shocker…

I own some obsolete rifles with their equally obsolete cartridges (not calibers or calibres) and I shoot them and I have even ---GASP--- hunted with them.
Do they kill deer? Yes.
Have these cartridges been killing deer (and ELK) for a 100 years or better? A couple have.

Would any of these all but obsolete guns or cartridges be my first choice for a deer excursion 3 states away from my home? HELL NO!

And if you wish to call doing what the “old timey” cartridges do, all the while doing it faster and more efficiently, boring, so be it.

Yes it was a US mag Flippy but surely...SURELYthere has to be a cartridge of European/british/what ever that will do the same job?? The .303 perhaps, I don't think there is a deer alive that it won't kill. I think it shows an authors ignorance and narrow mindness to always pick the common US calibres when they pen one of these boring articles. Now the top ten deer cartridges in Australia would have a fair smattering of US calibres as well but I think there are enough folks out there hunting with different stuff to make things interesting. And sorry mate we can't shoot roo's unless you have a permit. We do have pro roo shooters who cull roos for the export and pet meat trades and the most common cals would be .222,.223,22-250 type calibres.

quote:

I suppose that’s what you get for reading a US gun mag.
Maybe you should publish your own?

Nah I'll just stick to doing what I know best thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I forgot to add, I don't really care if you use fountain pens.

Oh yes you do, apparently. You brought the topic up and that post constitutes the third time you’ve referred to whether or not I use fountain pens. I think you have an unhealthy interest in the topic, Liberace.

Is the 5.6X52R and American or European cartridge?

American of course.
changing its name doesn't change its heritage.

quote:

the most common cals would be .222,.223,22-250 type calibres.

If you're interested in a European equivalent for the above, there is the 5.6x61 Vom Hofe Super Express.
It is a high-velocity .22 cartridge introduced in 1937. It has a .227-.228" bullet of 77 grains with a MV of about 3500-3700 fps.

The popular gun rags in circulation in the U.S. are nothing more than advertising. They are normally trying to convince the average hunter that their old reliable .270 or .44 mag. is worthless and they need the latest short mag that produces 125 fps. more velocity or that their push feed Rem. 700 is unreliable and they need to spend $2,000.00 on a new rifle.

The majority of gun rags ( or any other single interest rag) are generally, as stated, an advertising platform with a smattering of content that is most often aimed at those who have not already come to tearms with thier shooting needs. For those who have the experience and understanding to make thier decisions about what caliber and which of the many cartridges for that caliber, further, which of the many (or the few) factory rifles will deliver said bullet of certain caliber to the intended target,then there will never ( or so rarely as to constitute a never) BE MUCH OF INTEREST IN THE GUN RAGS. That is why we frequent this and other forums, to be stimulated and to be involved in conversations where our EXTENSIVE experience can be freely and generously given to those who have not had the number of toys nor used them in as many situations and therfore could not have reached the definate understanding of everyone elses needs that we have.
When will you all just get a 7x57 and a 404 and leave the rest of the unworthy caliber - cartridge combinations for those who know no better.

Von Gruff.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Nah I'll just stick to doing what I know best thanks.

And what pray tell, would that be? Can’t imagine what you know best…

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
I forgot to add, I don't really care if you use fountain pens.

Oh yes you do, apparently. You brought the topic up and that post constitutes the third time you’ve referred to whether or not I use fountain pens. I think you have an unhealthy interest in the topic, Liberace.

Sorry but I must REQUOTE myself, because apparently you cannot deduce what I was referring to in this post:

quote:

Not disrespect, just facts; imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. These new cartridges do everything the old ones do and add something, too. Advancement is not all bad. To prove my point,
just look at what is sitting in front of you right now.

I am guessing it is not fountain pen, ink, paper, envelopes and stamps…

I was referring to a C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R!

It’s a wonder the Aussies don’t have a space program with all these rocket scientists running around…

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
The popular gun rags in circulation in the U.S. are nothing more than advertising. They are normally trying to convince the average hunter that their old reliable .270 or .44 mag. is worthless and they need the latest short mag that produces 125 fps. more velocity or that their push feed Rem. 700 is unreliable and they need to spend $2,000.00 on a new rifle.

Aint that the truth SS.

Settle down Flippy, all I said originally was that I find the common US rounds and the fact that they are always pushed in magazines a little boring. Your carrying on like I insulted your sister.

quote:

And what pray tell, would that be? Can’t imagine what you know best…

I was going to go into a big speel on what I do flippy but your just not worth it.

Wow Flippy, Argue much?

Your signature should be "JUST A TYPICAL AMERICAN WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS, RELIGION AND HIS OWN OPINION"

I'm a white guy and you sir are not an accurate representation of a white guy.


Now, getting back to the topic at hand, What is the consensus on .260Rem vs 6.5x55 pros and cons if you please.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Settle down Flippy, all I said originally was that I find the common US rounds and the fact that they are always pushed in magazines a little boring. Your carrying on like I insulted your sister.

quote:

And what pray tell, would that be? Can’t imagine what you know best…

I was going to go into a big speel on what I do flippy but your just not worth it.

Bakes,



LOL - ARE WE HAVING FUN, YET?


I'd suggest we really get back to the "topic at hand":

I'd love a top 10 cartridge list based on sales statitics both in the US and Australia. Then comparisons would be at least debatable!

98 replies 1376 views and three pages, I'd say we're having fun . Some people are getting to carried away and think I've declared war on the US just by saying I find some calibres and some articles on them a bit boring however

quote:

I'd love a top 10 cartridge list based on sales statitics both in the US and Australia. Then comparisons would be at least debatable!

That would be interesting but god knows where we'd find that info in Australia. But are we talking general hunting or just "deer" calibres? Because where whitetail drives your deer hunting I think Sambar would be our most taken deer (or one that is more assessable to the most people)Our legal min calibre (in Victoria where most samabr hunting is done) is .270.

quote:

I was referring to a C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R!

It’s a wonder the Aussies don’t have a space program with all these rocket scientists running around…

Hey, Flippopian Tube, rocket scientist, if you could read you would have seen that I wrote on my first post that I am an A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N.

Andyroo,

Actually Flip Flop’s signature should be “JUST A TYPICAL BUTT PIRATE, SPOILING FOR A FIGHT, BECAUSE SOMEONE INSULTED HIS BOYFRIEND…OR SOMETHING”

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Hey, Flippopian Tube, rocket scientist, if you could read you would have seen that I wrote on my first post that I am an A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N.

Dot exactly. This is what you wrote:

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
I'm from the US and I prefer metric calibers, specifically, 6.5x55, 7x57, and 9.3x62. For what it's worth...

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Actually Flip Flop’s signature should be “JUST A TYPICAL BUTT PIRATE, SPOILING FOR A FIGHT, BECAUSE SOMEONE INSULTED HIS BOYFRIEND…OR SOMETHING”

With all that homo talk, you are starting to sound like Daman…

quote:

Originally posted by Andyroo:
Wow Flippy, Argue much?

Your signature should be "JUST A TYPICAL AMERICAN WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS, RELIGION AND HIS OWN OPINION"

I'm a white guy and you sir are not an accurate representation of a white guy.

Now, getting back to the topic at hand, What is the consensus on .260Rem vs 6.5x55 pros and cons if you please.

Apparently I am not the only one with this opinion...
I believe Allan said it best:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
…as for why are American cartridges so popular?
Simple, American gun owners outnumber all other gun owners world wide by at least a factor of ten.
And in all likelihood each American gun owner probably owns as many rifles as you AND your extended family combined.

At last count I owned at least three rifles in 30-06 alone...

"Boring"? if you say so, but it puts meat on the ground.

Why on earth would you expect an ecclectic cartridge like the 6.5x55 to be popular when only two countries, Norway and Sweden, ever used it?

Yeah their surplus rifles wound up all over the world, but the only reason they are well known is that virtually ALL of their surplus rifles ended up in private hands, hell I have one... but if I didn't handload for it, it would be gathering dust above my fireplace.

The 303 brit would likely be "up there" if your elected government hadn't outlawed it...

AD

Hey Flipper, butt pirate, the US is in North America; someone from the US is an American.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyroo:


Now, getting back to the topic at hand, What is the consensus on .260Rem vs 6.5x55 pros and cons if you please.

Too close to call when it comes to shooting critters. Essentially the same performance.
Both good cartridges, if I didn't have a 6.5x55 I'd have a 6.5-308 A-Square.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:


The 303 brit would likely be "up there" if your elected government hadn't outlawed it...

AD

Must have been asleep for that one. When did that happen?

Addit: if you meant NSW banning all military calibers, that was more along the lines of your California ban on .50 cals. One states particular idiocy.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Lets play nice now , boys , or else take your squabble off to the Political Forum.

Its got kinda off topic now and heading for a name-calling spree ......

Bingo.

Pretty sad that I had to add 2 names to my ignore list just to keep one thread clean...

Bakes, what have you done?

Dave - your own Aussie Govt way back in the 1950's or so banned the private ownership of military-calibred rifles . Thats why you Aussies invented the shortened 303 case which was made to suit a SMLE rifle with one complete turn of thread machined off the barrel shank , then the barrel refitted - voila , a short chambered 303 that wouldnt accept a standard military cartridge.

Looks like the game is getting down and dirty again. Lets keep it clean or shift the battle to a forum better suited.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Dave - your own Aussie Govt way back in the 1950's or so banned the private ownership of military-calibred rifles . Thats why you Aussies invented the shortened 303 case which was made to suit a SMLE rifle with one complete turn of thread machined off the barrel shank , then the barrel refitted - voila , a short chambered 303 that wouldnt accept a standard military cartridge.

Looks like the game is getting down and dirty again. Lets keep it clean or shift the battle to a forum better suited.

Ah yes, good old NSW... IIRC the 303 became the 7.7x54 or something similar. Just one State though. The one, backward, ill-informed, retarded bunch of jerks who still can't play Rugby...

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:

quote:

I'd love a top 10 cartridge list based on sales statitics both in the US and Australia. Then comparisons would be at least debatable!

That would be interesting but god knows where we'd find that info in Australia. .....

Hey Bakes, Looky what I found:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/read...rifle_cartridges.htm

1) 308 Winchester
2) 270 Winchester
3) 30-06 Springfield
4) 45-70 Gov't
5) 30-30 Winchester
6) 7mm Rem Mag
7) 223 Remington
8) 270 WSM ??? !!!
9) 300 Win Mag
10) 243 Winchester

Another source: Note other answer No.3 for Australia

http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...0080914142920AAbs1TA

1) 22 Magnum
2) 22 LR
3) 223 Remington
4) 308 Winchester
5) 303 British
6) 30-06 Springfield
7) 243 Winchester
8) 7-08 Remington
9) 270 Winchester
10) 338 Win Mag

Drop the 22s - And it looks alot like the US except for the 303 British

Ray the 7-08 suprises me. I've only ever seen one at a range.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Ray the 7-08 suprises me. I've only ever seen one at a range.

Yeah, That 270 WSM above suprised me over here - I've never seen one!

Both of those are reasonable popular here - 7-08 is ,imho , probably the "new" calibre best suited to all-round NZ hunting. WSM's dont appeal to me , they dont feed overwell and dont do anything that isnt allready done by anu of the other calibres here.

WSM, Ultramags , WSSM etc are all creations of the marketing division of firearms companies and dont add a thing to the ballistic choice out there , 'cept they are new and someone always wants the "new" toys...

Here in New Zealand, as far Deer Cartridges go, it might go something like:

1. .270 Win
2. .243 Win
3. .308 Win
4. .7mm-08 Rem
5. 6.5x55 Swedish
6. .303 British
7. .25.06 Rem
8. .30-06 Spr
9. 7mm Rem Mag
10. .300 Win Mag


Maybe, I've never seen it written so its only a guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Hey Flipper, butt pirate, ....

Maybe you should call Daman. You guys have a lot in common.

Here is a little gem from back in 2008....

http://forums.accuratereloadin...1043/m/149102768/p/1

Why bother,it will only be as boring as this thread has turned out.

Com'om Gryph...got three pages out of a few throw away lines

I'd just like to point out to those less informed that the 303 Brit is NOT banned in NSW, nor is ANY other sporting calibre...

As for flip-top-head .... dont feed the troll!!

After old mate Matt`s reply its not finished for sure.