Can I mention my 358 Norma Magnum Bakesy,now it aint boring cobber haha.

Hasnt had a mention yet in fact till now.

you got that thing up and running Gryph ? Be interested to see how it performs

you wont believe it muzza,the barrel turned up after four months,then my smith tells me its bore diais .346.5 now the barrel mob say "send it back and we will lap a few thou out of the guts...so in a nutshell it aint ferkin running anywhere.

I`m ringing my smith as i type just to get the latest on this shitfight.

Course you can Gryph, as it has Norma in its name.

I'm from the US and I prefer metric calibers, specifically, 6.5x55, 7x57, and 9.3x62. For what it's worth...

...then again, upon further reflection I realised that I learned of those rounds through these hunting chat rooms, so maybe my preferences aren't necessarily indicative of those of the average US hunter. Generally ammo at gun stores around here does tend to have "Win" or "Rem" in it's name. It's a shame that so many don't know what they're missing.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
...am I the only one out there who thinks most of the common US calibres are boring?

Apparently so.
Which Australian calibers do you like?????????

ROTFLMAO

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Just read an article in a US gun mag that was about the top 10 deer calibres (its been done to death I know)All the calibres were of US origin. No 6.5x55/7x57/whatever, am I the only one out there who thinks most of the common US calibres are boring?

Apparently so.
Which Australian calibers do you like?????????

243 MYRA, 25 MYRA, 6.5 MYRA, 303/25, 303 270, 303/35 just to name a few...

Oh, and who could forget the 585 BMF.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
I'm from the US and I prefer metric calibers, specifically, 6.5x55, 7x57, and 9.3x62. For what it's worth...

6.5x55…..260Remington
7x57…..280Remington
9.3x62…..35 Whelen or 375H&H (while not American, it is an “inch” cartridge)

There is a plethora of other cartridges (Roy Weatherby’s line of fine cartridges come to mind) that equal or exceed the performance of just about any other cartridges developed anywhere in the world. Not to mention ALL of the cartridges based on the 404 Gibbs and other large bore INCH cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
...Generally ammo at gun stores around here does tend to have "Win" or "Rem" in it's name.

Every cartridge on the planet has some name attached to it;
Browning, Mauser, Springfield, Colt, Krag-Jorgensen, Holland & Holland, Norma, Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Hornady, Federal, Weatherby, Lazzeroni, Smith & Wesson, Russian, and on and on and on………………….

Just like the European branded ammo is more popular over in Europe, American branded ammo is more popular over here. What doesn’t make sense about that?

Back in the day, when shipping meant “by ship, across the freaking water,” it was pretty expensive and time consuming to get ammo from over there to over here in quantity. It was easier to make it here. And since this is the greatest country on the Earth when it comes to building and designing stuff (well not so much anymore---MADE IN CHINA) it was logical that gun designers would also design cartridges, too and vice versa.
If it wasn’t for Remington, Winchester, Springfield, etc. , we would not have ammo in this country.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
…It's a shame that so many don't know what they're missing.

You talking about them or us?

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

quote:
Originally posted by Bakes:
Just read an article in a US gun mag that was about the top 10 deer calibres (its been done to death I know)All the calibres were of US origin. No 6.5x55/7x57/whatever, am I the only one out there who thinks most of the common US calibres are boring?


Apparently so.
Which Australian calibers do you like?????????


243 MYRA, 25 MYRA, 6.5 MYRA, 303/25, 303 270, 303/35 just to name a few...

Oh, and who could forget the 585 BMF.

Yeah...so there

and the 35 CRG dont forget bakesy

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
and the 35 CRG dont forget bakesy

Is that the same as the 35 INH ??? (insert name here)

You up to your old tricks again matty?

http://www.australianhunting.n...ticles/358%20CRG.htm

I suppose I'm a "citizen of the world" when it comes to the cartridges I've used. Some have been American, some have been European/metric. But I'm also practical. I've finally learned that I want my guns in a caliber which is readily available, regardless of country of origin. "Oddball" or non-traditional chamberings translate to extra expense IMO. A vintage rifle in 9x57 Mauser, for instance, might be tempting, but it wouldn't do anything that a more modern .35 Whelen would do--at far less expense.

But I still don't like to be completely "traditional:" My current rifle is chambered in 8x57 Mauser, and it's all I need.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
You up to your old tricks again matty?

http://www.australianhunting.n...ticles/358%20CRG.htm

Just being silly Johnny!!!

Funny I have never seen that article!!! ... spend too much time away I guess... I had no idea what the CRG is.

There are just a whole heap of 'new' 35 cal wildcats (probably single-chambering) floating around Australia at the moment... it is so cool apparently!!

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
243 MYRA, 25 MYRA, 6.5 MYRA, 303/25, 303 270, 303/35 just to name a few...
Oh, and who could forget the 585 BMF.

I never knew the 585 BMF.

These are all WILDCAT cartridges… (and two of them are based on the .222Remington…lol)

Which, if any, are available commercially?

The 303 based ones were commercially available.

I found this discussion of the 303-375 (375/303) wildcat interesting:

http://castboolits.gunloads.co...wthread.php?p=674833

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
243 MYRA, 25 MYRA, 6.5 MYRA, 303/25, 303 270, 303/35 just to name a few...
Oh, and who could forget the 585 BMF.

I never knew the 585 BMF.

These are all WILDCAT cartridges… (and two of them are based on the .222Remington…lol)

Which, if any, are available commercially?

Not wildcats. Proprietary cartridges of Myra's Sports Store, and available over the counter. IIRC, Riverbrand were also offering them as over the counter loadings.

Flippy,

Of the rounds you mentioned, first off, it is more appropriate to compare the 7x57 to the 7-08, not the 280 Rem. If you’re going to bring up the 280 Rem then the right one to compare it to is the 7x64 Brenneke, which, incidentally, preceeded it.

As did the other rounds you mentioned. The 6.5x55 preceeded the 260 Rem by about 90 years; the 7x57 preceeded the 7-08 by about seventy years, and the 9.3x62 preceeded the 35 Whelen by about twenty years (give or take a decade or two in each case). Of these the metric rounds can outperform their Johnny-come-lately counterparts and do so at slightly lower pressures. However, they made their bones with milder loads, which make them more pleasant to shoot. And I suspect that any one of those particular three metric rounds has killed more animals than all three of their American counterparts combined.

Your argument about shipping has merit regarding the cartridges developed in the earlier part of the Twentieth Century but that wasn’t an issue at the time the 7-08 and 260 were introduced. There’s nothing wrong with reinventing the wheel…just don’t claim to own the design. And, if the original version outperforms new-fangled version, well, what exactly is there to get excited about?

As an aside, I grew up with the metric system and studied using the metric system, but consider the English/Imperial system superior for many reasons. But I like the metric calibers. Oh yeah, I also like the American ones and own several of those and plan on owning more. All I'm saying is to respect those that went before us.

To perhaps belabor the point, I like Led Zepplin's version of "Nobody's Fault But Mine":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwBMVg9L7Q0

but to fully appreciate it you should also listen to Blind Willie Johnson's original version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...SRJrNZZw&feature=fvw

Here's another entertaining version of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...A_oM&feature=related

Well, i'll just come out and say it..... The .270 Win has to be the best allround cartridge invented for NZ conditions.

I'm going to throw a spanner in here with the 7.62x39 and 7.62x54, ah ha go ruskies!

Lets not forget the .625 Jongmans cartridge either - rifles made by Jongmans in their final stages of production in Brisbane during the 1980's/ early 90's

And the multitude of 303 Brit based commercial calibres , from 303-22 up to the 303-375 that were commercially loaded by Super and others - plus the obvious wildcats that appear where ever inventive minds and rifles meet.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyroo:
I'm going to throw a spanner in here with the 7.62x39 and 7.62x54, ah ha go ruskies!

what about an eskimo Andyroo


358 Nukalpiaq

Gidday Shanks,

Mate the 270 is a bit overpowered for you North Island bush hunters and not as flat shooting as the 6.5 x55 for those down this way. The 6.5 or 260 would be a much better allround NZ cartridge I thik you would agree

Happy Hunting

Hamish

To me, the moment something becomes popular it is boring.

So I prefer the classics the "once popular"
8x57 Mauser
7x57 Mauser
.303 British
6.5x55 Swede
7.62x54R
7.62x39R

I still hunt with a .303 ( No4 Mk1 Long Branch)
and A 7.62x39 ( Norinco Bushranger )

I'm not stuck in the dark ages, I have a penchant for 6.5's/.264's I'm impressed with the 6.5/284, .260 Rem, I like the .264 Magnum, much maligned as it has been. A 6.5WSM would just about suit me to the ground.

There are just to many .308's, .270's, .243's, 7mm08's, 25-06's, and 30-06's, Its boring.

quote:

To me, the moment something becomes popular it is boring.

So I prefer the classics the "once popular"
8x57 Mauser
7x57 Mauser
.303 British
6.5x55 Swede
7.62x54R
7.62x39R

I still hunt with a .303 ( No4 Mk1 Long Branch)
and A 7.62x39 ( Norinco Bushranger )

I'm not stuck in the dark ages, I have a penchant for 6.5's/.264's I'm impressed with the 6.5/284, .260 Rem, I like the .264 Magnum, much maligned as it has been. A 6.5WSM would just about suit me to the ground.

There are just to many .308's, .270's, .243's, 7mm08's, 25-06's, and 30-06's, Its boring.

Well said that man

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Hamish:
Gidday Shanks,

Mate the 270 is a bit overpowered for you North Island bush hunters and not as flat shooting as the 6.5 x55 for those down this way. The 6.5 or 260 would be a much better allround NZ cartridge I thik you would agree



Happy Hunting

Hamish

I recon i can hit that head behind the sofa with my .270 from here.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

quote:

Originally posted by Andyroo:
I'm going to throw a spanner in here with the 7.62x39 and 7.62x54, ah ha go ruskies!

what about an eskimo Andyroo


358 Nukalpiaq

Na na mate

This what you want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....plitten_Loudenboomer

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
Which, if any, are available commercially?

Not wildcats. Proprietary cartridges of Myra's Sports Store, and available over the counter. IIRC, Riverbrand were also offering them as over the counter loadings.

So these are all currently available from a commercial ammunition manufacturer? They available OUTSIDE of Australia? Say, the US?

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Flippy,
Of the rounds you mentioned, first off, it is more appropriate to compare the 7x57 to the 7-08, not the 280 Rem. If you’re going to bring up the 280 Rem then the right one to compare it to is the 7x64 Brenneke, which, incidentally, preceded it.

I compared the 280Rem to the 7X57 because it has slightly larger case capacity, and as you must know, you can load a bigger cartridge down, but not a smaller cartridge up.
As for the 7X64 (Brenneke), it is nearly identical to the 280Remington, both of which are just slightly larger than the 7X57. Kind of a flip of the coin….

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
And, if the original version outperforms new-fangled version, well, what exactly is there to get excited about?
Of these the metric rounds can outperform their Johnny-come-lately counterparts and do so at slightly lower pressures.

Not unless you mean the same weight projectile at a slower speed or the same weight projectile with more powder at the same speed. The 7MM-08 is a more efficient than the 7X57 and can launch the same weight projectile the same speed as the 7X57 with less powder. Yes it is a higher pressure cartridge, but then the 7X57 Mauser is nearly 75 years old… As for the 280Remington, it has larger case capacity than either the 7mm-08 or the 7X57.
Not what I call a fair fight, but YOU brought it up!

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
However, they made their bones with milder loads, which make them more pleasant to shoot.

Well, no, not really. See the link below and the recoil numbers for most modern firearms and you will see what I mean.
The 6.5X55, when fired from the same weight rifle and with the 140g bullet, has exactly the same velocity and energy as the 260Remington. The 260Remington just uses a little less powder.
The 7X57 has the same recoil as the 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 again does it with less powder.
The 9.3X62 has almost the exact same recoil as a 338WinMag with the same weight bullet. The 375H&H, with the same weight bullet, at the same velocity, in the same weight rifle would have to have the same recoil as the 9.3. Can’t beat physics…

Rifle Recoil Table

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
And I suspect that any one of those particular three metric rounds has killed more animals than all three of their American counterparts combined.

True for now. Two (7X57 and 6.5X55) have killed more PEOPLE than the modern counterparts, too. Time will tell if the scale balances out, with animals at least…
I know 4 people who hunt around my neck of the woods with a 7mm-08, and one with a 280Rem, but not one person I know uses a 7X57. I know several people who have 7X57, just that they don’t regularly use them for hunting. As for the other two cartridges, I know of no-one who uses either for hunting and I don’t know if anyone even owns a 9.3.

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Your argument about shipping has merit regarding the cartridges developed in the earlier part of the Twentieth Century but that wasn’t an issue at the time the 7-08 and 260 were introduced.

By then it was a moot point.
So, what you are saying is the American gun manufacturers were supposed to wait until ammo was available in large enough quantities here to start making firearms? Or better yet, design brand new firearms around a cartridge dating back to 1892? Ammo manufacturers were supposed to stop cartridge development based on the fact that nothing could be produced that was a substantial improvement on existing cartridges? If that were the case, we would all be still be shooting blackpowder front stuffers, right?
When gun and ammo manufacturers started designing “new” firearms, why would they use an old design especially if it was not popular in America?
There were PLENTY of surplus military rifles available after WWI and WWII, so why didn’t these European cartridges become popular? Lack of commercially available HUNTING ammo was a big one. Combined with the fact that these cartridges were BERDAN primed and COST of available loaded ammunition may have had something to do with cartridge selection.

Here is an article on metric cartridges that mentions both the boxer priming issue and the cost factor in considering these cartridges for America.
Pay particular attention to the last paragraph:

Metric Cartridges

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
As an aside, I grew up with the metric system and studied using the metric system, but consider the English/Imperial system superior for many reasons. But I like the metric calibers. Oh yeah, I also like the American ones and own several of those and plan on owning more. All I'm saying is to respect those that went before us.

Not disrespect, just facts; imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. These new cartridges do everything the old ones do and add something, too. Advancement is not all bad. To prove my point, just look at what is sitting in front of you right now.

I am guessing it is not fountain pen, ink, paper, envelopes and stamps…

Flippy, I make my cartrige choices with an eye towards velocity vs. pressure, not velocity vs. powder capacity.

Your comment that you didn't know anyone who hunts with a 7x57 or a 9.3x62 was quite telling: that was the original point of this thread. I hunt with both of them, along with the 6.5x55, I like them, and I commented that those who don't use them don't know what they're missing. You confirmed my point; you don't use them, you don't know anyone who uses them, so you don't know what you're missing.

Beyond that I'm not going to argue with the rest of your points since we are discussing personal preferences and there is no right or wrong answer. This isn't a hair I care to split.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
Just read an article in a US gun mag that was about the top 10 deer calibres (its been done to death I know)All the calibres were of US origin. No 6.5x55/7x57/whatever, am I the only one out there who thinks most of the common US calibres are boring?

Apparently so.
Which Australian calibers do you like?????????

Hello Bakes, I must admit that when I originally posted:"Which Australian calibers do you like??????", I was/am still pretty ignorant to Australian cartridges. I personally think there is no such thing as a bad cartirdge, just some better than others. To me a boring cartridge is something I can't get components for ie. brass,primers, dies, reamers, etc. My hat is off to you and your fellow countrymen for being innovative on their design. It is just "we" Americans know nothing of them. At least I don't.

I personally like all traditional cartridges like the 7x57, 30-06, 270W, 375 H&H, 338WM, 300Sav., 30-30Win.,etc. as well as the new WSM's. (ALSO 50 CAL. muzzle loaders) I think the reason you are bored with our cartridges is because of our media exploiting everything immediately and over and over. The WSM's are very new cartridges but they seem old due to the magazines. How can something new be boring?

I am glad to see there is a good interest in the shooting sports there. Keep it up! Perhaps you can suggest a good Aussie/NZ shooting publication for us Yanks. Do you have a N.R.A type organization there? If not, start one! Take care and good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Wismon:
Flippy, I make my cartrige choices with an eye towards velocity vs. pressure, not velocity vs. powder capacity.

The only reason I would worry about cartridge pressure was if I was shooting a very old rifle. Even then, the rifle would more than likely still be chambered for the original (and somewhat obsolete) round which it was designed for, as is my Savage 99 in 300Savage. One of my favorite rifles I might add. A round with ballistics inferior to the 308Winchester that replaced it and relegated it into obscurity, but like you, I don’t care.

I would never rechamber a rifle that was “iffy” with a modern high pressure round.
As a reloader, I look for cartridges that give the same performance with less powder, more bang for the same buck…

That said, I am not above shooting older rifles either. I have several of them including an early 40’s vintage 8X57 Mauser, a 1950 Steyr-Mannlicher Carbine, a 1945 A3-03, a custom 6mmRemington (there is that 7X57 again!) varmint rifle built in the late 50’s and a 91/30 Mosin-Nagant in 7.62X54R (almost forgot that one!).

Like I said:

quote:

Not disrespect, just facts; imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. These new cartridges do everything the old ones do and add something, too. Advancement is not all bad. To prove my point, just look at what is sitting in front of you right now.

I am guessing it is not fountain pen, ink, paper, envelopes and stamps…

BTW, I think this guy is right:

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
I personally think there is no such thing as a bad cartirdge, just some better than others.
To me a boring cartridge is something I can't get components for ie. brass,primers, dies, reamers, etc.

Hoy Bakesey old fella you have started another of those "my nuts are heavier than yours" type threads cobber

LOL Seems that way Gryph.

Just to clarify something so we can take a breath.... There is nothing wrong with the US invented calibres, I'm just sick of reading about them...thats all.

quote:

I think the reason you are bored with our cartridges is because of our media exploiting everything immediately and over and over

Hit the nail on the head mate.

quote:

Aussie/NZ shooting publication for us Yanks. Do you have a N.R.A type organization there? If not, start one

I think "guns and game" is our best magazine and the Kiwi's have a few top ones as well, we also have some species specific mags (deer/Boar etc). The closest thing to the NRA would be our SSAA...but they are bloody toothless tigers as far as I'm concerned. (that should be good for another two pages )

NSW have Shooters Party,which is far from toothless Tiger

True TP but I live in QLD.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
Which, if any, are available commercially?

Not wildcats. Proprietary cartridges of Myra's Sports Store, and available over the counter. IIRC, Riverbrand were also offering them as over the counter loadings.

So these are all currently available from a commercial ammunition manufacturer? They available OUTSIDE of Australia? Say, the US?

Not as far as I know. But then, how many USA manufacturers load for the 6.5x57R?

quote:

Originally posted by Sambar 9.3:
Not as far as I know. But then, how many USA manufacturers load for the 6.5x57R?

Now that is a cartg. to dream about. im building a double for my wife in that caliber at the momnet.

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
True TP but I live in QLD.

Why dont you help establish the Shooters Party in QLD?? There is a group trying to do that just now... while QLD doesnt have a state Upper House the idea is to run a heap of SP candidates in certain marginal seats and put some serious heat on the incumbents.

The Shooters Party has also contested the Aust Federal election in 4 states (in the last Fed election), including QLD and had some major wins, holding out filthy Greens (hack-spit) candidates. I mean ACTUALLY stopping them from winning a seat!!!

In the next Fed election the Federal body will now be called the The Shooters and Fishers Party (S&FP) - hopefully garnering even more 'outdoors vote' in the Senate race... QLD is a hot target for this...

Get in and help folks!!

MG