This is the reply I got from Air New Zealand today, I can't figure out what extra "handling" or "fees" is required by customs as when I returned from Sydney in January the tag identifying my case contained a firearms had come off and the rifle came out on the carousel. If there is extra paperwork for customs etc then this shouldn't have happened.

Air New Zealand are being questioned by numerous people about the newly introduced firearms handling fee, there is also some other action pending.

Dear Mr XXXX


Thank you for your email. I apologise for the delay in my response.


The firearm handling charge has been introduced to cover the administration cost of accepting firearms on our flights. This cost includes additional staff resources at airports during the clearance process and charges applied directly to the airline by customs for the clearance of the firearms (this is in additional to any charges that may have been applied during the customer’s pre travel clearance paperwork). The firearms charge is applicable per case up to 23kg, therefore if you have a case that holds more than one firearm it will have only one firearms charge applied. If the case containing your firearm(s) is within your permitted free baggage allowance only the firearm charge will apply, if it is in addition to your included allowance then excess baggage charges will also apply, if applicable you can purchase Prepaid Extra Bags for the excess component and pay the firearms charge at the airport on the day of travel.



While I absolutely understand this seems somewhat unfair, the reasoning behind the decision is sound. The financial climate carriers currently face has seen a number of airlines make changes across the board in order to improve their financial position. We are determined to successfully navigate our way through current economic difficulties and unfortunately that sometimes means making changes we otherwise may not have considered.



Mr XXXX, thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. We look forward to being of service to you in the near future.



Kind Regards
Sara Williscroft
Customer Support


I have responded to this with some very direct questions regarding the introduction of this fee and the lack of advertising of the introduction of this fee, I have found a lot of travel agents don't know about it either.

Has anyone noticed the wording on Air New Zealands website regarding oversized items? I can't figure out how something can be classed as oversize in one sentence yet a standard piece in another sentence Huh Huh

Oversized items

If you are travelling with items that exceed maximum dimensions for checked baggage, these are classified as oversized.

Examples of oversized items are bicycles, surfboards, hang-gliders and wind-surfers. Since these are larger items, carriage will be subject to availability of space on the aircraft.

The following items may be considered as one standard piece of baggage:
•Any portable musical instrument not exceeding 100cm in length
•One bicycle
•One surfboard
•One pair of snow skis (including poles and boots)
•One snowboard
•One pair of water skis
•One golf bag containing golf clubs and one pair of shoes

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
There are a number of additional costs associated with
transporting firearms by air. UOTE]

polysyllabic non-speak

conifer can you please elaborate on these additional costs associated with transporting firearms by air??

Air New Zealand have started charging for International travel with a firearm as yet not domestic but maybe that will come in the future

Maybe now is the time we and all our hunting mates should hammer Air NZ with protests.

Qantas may be the answer for the moment but you can bet that if AirNZ gets away with it the Irish Athenian will jump on the bandwagon.

Here my query to them - apparently it may be 72 hours before I get a reply...

"I understand that Air NZ has recently imposed an additional handling charge on firearms travelling on international flights , due to extra handling requirements. Could you please advise me as to what these extra handling requirements are , over and above the handling requirements that have always been in place when checking in on an international flight with this company?
The fact that this cost has been imposed , with so little notification that even travel/ booking agents are not aware of this , suggests to me that it is simply an unofficial tax being exploited by Air NZ in an attempt to screw more dollars out the traveller who is going about his perfectly legal business.
Can you also please advise me of how handling a firearm packed in an airlines-approved travel case and secured with airline-approved locking devices can attract any more handling than a childs pushchair , or a surfboard , or a large musical instrument , or an windsurfer , or a bycycle.? I also note that none of these previously mentioned articles attract a special , exhorbitant fee as seems to be the case with firearms.
As I am contemplating another overseas excursion with my hunting rifle shortly , I have to advise that unless there is a revocation of this tax I will not be travelling on Air New Zealand internationally again , and will be advising all my fellow hunting travellers to avoid Air New Zealand for that same reason.
I look forward to your reply "

I dont expect to get much in the way of common sense , but if others want to write a similar query and post it via the Air New Zealand website http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/help-and-contact.

Muzza good letter I have taken the opportunity to print the letter I am writing to customer services and addressing it to

Air New Zealand
Mr Christopher Luxon
Private Bag 92007
Auckland 1142

Since he is the new CEO of Air New Zealand and was born in Christchurch I will see if he knows about what is happening.

Perhaps a few others would like to contact him directly about this firearms tax.

well - here is Air new Zealands reply - pretty much word for word the same as that above ...

"The firearm handling charge has been introduced to cover the administration cost of accepting firearms on our flights. This cost includes additional staff resources at airports during the clearance process and charges applied directly to the airline by customs for the clearance of the firearms (this is in additional to any charges that may have been applied during the customer’s pre travel clearance paperwork). The firearms charge is applicable per case up to 23kg, therefore if you have a case that holds more than one firearm it will have only one firearms charge applied. If the case containing your firearm(s) is within your permitted free baggage allowance only the firearm charge will apply, if it is in addition to your included allowance then excess baggage charges will also apply, if applicable you can purchase Prepaid Extra Bags for the excess component and pay the firearms charge at the airport on the day of travel. "

I guess the next step is to ask NZ Customs about their cost and input into this , as you would think that Customs would be charging all airlines that fly into NZ the same fee - and that doesnt seem to be the case .

And here is my query to NZ Customs ;

"recently it has come to my attention that Air New Zealand has imposed a fee for the handling and clearance of firearms on International flights . The reason given for this fee is to recover the cost to the airline of the charges imposed by NZ Customs for clearing firearms at international airports.

I am curious as to what those fees charged by NZ Customs would be per firearm , and whether or not this fee is something new or has been in place for some time. Hopefully you can advise me on this ."

Be interesting to see if there is any response.

I find it somewhat strange that Air NZ is blaming NZ Customs as NZ Customs do nothing and to my knowledge have nothing to do with the firearm, unlike Australia. In NZ it is the Police who retrive your firearm from airside, cart it to their office and do all the paper work.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Maybe now is the time we and all our hunting mates should hammer Air NZ with protests.

Qantas may be the answer for the moment but you can bet that if AirNZ gets away with it the Irish Athenian will jump on the bandwagon.

Well Qantas is bringing in its own raft of new charges next month - similar to AirNZ although not as much... the thing is they dont specifically name firearms, so it looks like you will still be able to pre-book your extra bags at the cheaper rate. Will make it hard (expensive) though if you decide late to bring trophies/meat home with you from a hunt.

And so the plot thickens ...

Heres the reply from NZ Customs today

"NZ Customs does not charge for the Examination of Goods Imported or Exported under the circumstances outlined by you.

This is a function of Aviation Security www.avsec.govt.nz . as they are required to make Security Checks.

I do not have any further information on their charges or processes"

So now I shall check with the Aviation Security people and see if they have been the cause of this , and if not I shall go higher up the food chain in Air New Zealand seeking answers.

and here is my query to the Aviation Security people via their website contact link

"Recently it has come to my attention that Air New Zealand has imposed a fee for the handling and clearance of firearms on International flights . The reason given for this fee is to recover the cost to the airline of the charges imposed by NZ Customs for clearing firearms at international airports. NZ Customs has told me that this fee does not originate with them , but that your organisation is possibly the source of this fee.

I am curious as to what those fees charged by Aviation Security would be per firearm , and whether or not this fee is something new or has been in place for some time. Given that all firearms travelling internationally by air are required to be contained in airline-approved cases , with airline approved locks , and have the bolts and ammunition stored seperately as checked luggage , and that the New Zealand Police also have a role in this process , I am hoping that you will be able to shed some light on this situation ."

Time will tell if we ever get to the bottom of this ......

Just getting closer to confirming Air NZ added the charge with no actual cost to the airline to justify it.

and here is todays confirmation that Air New Zealand has imposed its own fee and blamed others for it

From The NZ Aviation Security people today

"The fee you refer is not imposed on the airline operator by the Aviation Security Service. In fact I am not aware of an airline imposing a fee for the handling and clearance of firearms on International flights.



As you may be aware, all international baggage that is checked in is security screened by us. This includes ‘oversize ‘ luggage such as the likes of Firearms in cases, surfboards, golf club sets, pushchairs, bicycles etc.



I am sorry therefore that I cannot assist further. I suggest you go back to the airline operator and query the charge which may be an excess baggage charge which they impose."

Seems to me that Air New Zealand has some explaining to do on this one ...

Where to next I wonder???

I can forward copies of the questioned posed and answers received if anyone wants to pursue this themselves. I think I may go have a word with my local Member of Parliament since Air NZ is owned by the people of the country.

Muzza have sent you a PM

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
and here is todays confirmation that Air New Zealand has imposed its own fee and blamed others for it

From The NZ Aviation Security people today

"The fee you refer is not imposed on the airline operator by the Aviation Security Service. In fact I am not aware of an airline imposing a fee for the handling and clearance of firearms on International flights.



As you may be aware, all international baggage that is checked in is security screened by us. This includes ‘oversize ‘ luggage such as the likes of Firearms in cases, surfboards, golf club sets, pushchairs, bicycles etc.



I am sorry therefore that I cannot assist further. I suggest you go back to the airline operator and query the charge which may be an excess baggage charge which they impose."

Seems to me that Air New Zealand has some explaining to do on this one ...

Where to next I wonder???

I can forward copies of the questioned posed and answers received if anyone wants to pursue this themselves. I think I may go have a word with my local Member of Parliament since Air NZ is owned by the people of the country.

Old old story, lies to cover the bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
and here is todays confirmation that Air New Zealand has imposed its own fee and blamed others for it

From The NZ Aviation Security people today

"The fee you refer is not imposed on the airline operator by the Aviation Security Service. In fact I am not aware of an airline imposing a fee for the handling and clearance of firearms on International flights.



As you may be aware, all international baggage that is checked in is security screened by us. This includes ‘oversize ‘ luggage such as the likes of Firearms in cases, surfboards, golf club sets, pushchairs, bicycles etc.



I am sorry therefore that I cannot assist further. I suggest you go back to the airline operator and query the charge which may be an excess baggage charge which they impose."

Seems to me that Air New Zealand has some explaining to do on this one ...

Where to next I wonder???

I can forward copies of the questioned posed and answers received if anyone wants to pursue this themselves. I think I may go have a word with my local Member of Parliament since Air NZ is owned by the people of the country.

Muzza I would appreciate it if you can forward the questions and response from Customs and Avsec........I have PM'd you my email address......Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Kiwishooter2:
Well if anyone is planning a trip to New Zealand and will be bringing a firearm I would not recommend travelling with Air New Zealand.

The reason is they have introduced a charge for travelling with firearms
From NZ to Aussie it is NZ$120 plus a return charge AU$120, Perth is NZ$200, return to NZ AU$200
US NZ$200, return to NZ US$150.
UK $200 return from UK 100 UK pounds

This is charged for each case containing a firearm and also includes any rifle that would have previously been included in your allowed baggage limit.

This fee is entirely because the helihunt operators have convinced everyone in New Zealand that visiting hunters have lots of money that they must fling around amongst us peasants.
Pay up you big spenders and hand over the dosh

I take it that Kiwi hunters going abroad will be charged too!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I take it that Kiwi hunters going abroad will be charged too!!

Anyone who has to pass the grim faced keepers of the cabin.

Now that we have uncovered the reality of this saga , it would be nice if lots of people contacted Air New Zealand to query this fee. I suspect the more people that ask the more likely to have something done.... or maybe not . Anyway , it cant hurt for everyone to make a complaint to the company about it .

Given that I have 7 days to respond to the reply from Air New Zealand - here is my response, which I do hope will get a fair hearing ;

"I recently queried you - on the query number listed in the header - on the recently imposed tax on firearms travelling on international flights in and out of NZ.

Your response was the same as that given to an associate of mine when he also queried you on this same subject - exactly word for word which suggest that there was input from the person recieving my original other than to cut and paste an answer from you list of stock replies.

I have delved further into your response , and discovered that this newly imposed tax has nothing whatsoever to do with NZ Customs as you asserted , nor does it have anything at all to do with the NZ Aviation Security Service , who also deny any involvement in this tax.

Therefore I have to conclude that this is a direct tax on travellers with firearms , based solely on Air New Zealand desiring to wring more money out of its passengers , yet blaming outside agencies for that tax - which we now know is a fallacy.

So , my next question is - please explain to me how you have arrived at this tax amount , and why travellers with legally owned firearms , in airline approved storage cases , complying with all other airline and IATA regulations should suddenly be singled out for an extra tax ? Why have you not taxed awkwad goods like baby strollers or bycycles , or surfboards or golf clubs , none of which have any special packaging requirements yet are carried on all flights with no problems?

I look forward to your response - and please dont do the cut-and-paste nonsense again , because we both know that that the information in that is a lie ."

Only time will tell if there is any resolution here. I have been in contact with the NZ Deerstalkers Assn , and they are aware of this situation , and are awaiting a response from Air new Zealand , so we shll have to wait and see.

quote:

Originally posted by Kiwishooter2:
Just getting closer to confirming Air NZ added the charge with no actual cost to the airline to justify it.

Muzza can you forwrd copies of the question and answers to me. I will PM my details.

Cheers

Greg

Will do.

Anyone else wants copies of the correspondence just pm me your email and I will forward it to you.

The more the merrier

If anyone wants copies of the emails I have exchanged with Air New Zealand then please PM me, but I can say that the response from Air New Zealand is exactly word for word the same as Muzza and several others have received.

This is my last response to Air New Zealand, which I'm still waiting for a reply.


While your email tries to explain the reason for the $120 firearms handling fee this does not explain WHY this substantial NEW charge was NOT widely advertised when it was introduced. It is not even easy to find details of this charge on your website, this was even more obvious when your customer service staff could not find it.

I have been advised by Renee Grice that the email sent out by Air New Zealand on the 20/11/2012 advised of these changes. I have read and re read this email and it does not mention anything about the firearms fee, in fact it does state the following, and I quote

"We thought you might like to know about two new products we're introducing: paid Seat Select and prepaid Extra Bags.

It means you'll have a wider choice of seating options available to you - and have the opportunity to add to your current baggage allowance. As a Koru member, your complimentary premium seating allocation remains the same. You may find there have been some minor location adjustments but rest assured, all seats are still in premium locations. Your additional baggage allowance privileges are unaffected.

Since my wife and I joined Koru to take advantage of the extra bag and when I take my competition rifle overseas, it has always been included in my allowable baggage limit. This means that during November when I purchased my flights to Sydney in January and August you had NOT advertised these charges. This means that I did NOT know about the charges and if I had I would NOT have purchased the tickets to fly with Air New Zealand..............simply put I can fly on an alternative airline for substantially less than I can fly with Air New Zealand since these charges have been introduced.

This does not only affect me it affects many other people who, like me, have been traveling Internationally with firearms on Air New Zealand for more than ten years and have never had a charge levied for the firearm previously. So when Air New Zealand introduced this charge and did NOT publicly advertise doing so it has incurred an additional cost on these loyal Air New Zealand customers, which has greatly disadvantaged them financially.

Under the Fair Trading Act you have to make all customers aware of ALL additional or hidden costs PRIOR to completing the purchase, since you did NOT advertise these changes at all you did not make me or anyone else aware of these additional costs prior to purchasing our tickets.

Therefore I would appreciate a refund of the $120.00 I was charged on my flight in January and a waiving of this firearms handling fee for the loyal Air New Zealand customers who were unaware of this newly introduced firearms handling fee.

Might I suggest if you are truly interested in being fair to all Air New Zealand customers that you make this newly introduced firearms charge easily found on your website, or even introduce a box to tick if traveling with a firearm when booking a ticket online, as well as a public advertising campaign advising of this newly introduced firearms fee or any newly introduced fee that affects the overall cost when traveling with Air New Zealand.
Introducing these changes will avoid the negative public reaction that the introduction of this firearms handling fee has had.

I look forward to your reply.

There is considerable momentum gathering from many different directions at the present point in time.
The more serious and polite and constructive noise that is made the more likely that ANZ will begin to see the error of judgement they have made in regard to this issue.
I've got some weekday time next week and will continue my efforts to get a return to the Status Quo.
Lets keep banging on doors and sending emails to those that need to make the decision to stop these charges.

highlander - is the Hunting Guides Assn involved on this or is it individual people battling along on their own? A united front with some heavyweight organisations on board would count for more than an array of individuals.

SCI could advise US hunters to boycott Air New Zealand

try coming home from any of the common hunting locations.

$100 per kg is the norm.

That is why i do not take a rifle any more.

USA
RSA
RSA
in the last 3 years.

Just take my stuff and through it in the bin. Cheeper to replace.

Or now I just give it to the camp guys.

Regards Mark

quote:

Originally posted by cameronaussie:
try coming home from any of the common hunting locations.

$100 per kg is the norm.

That is why i do not take a rifle any more.

USA
RSA
RSA
in the last 3 years.

Just take my stuff and through it in the bin. Cheeper to replace.

Or now I just give it to the camp guys.

Regards Mark

$100/kg?? Not if you book flights that have bags included. I don't think I have ever paid for an extra kilo of luggage on an international flight, not once... ever.

Hunters should be encouraged to fly with their firearms... when few people take firearms, the airlines will stop allowing it. 50% of our clients bring their own guns still.

Yeah Muzza, 100% the NZPHGA is involved in this, as you'll appreciate with our hunting season just beginning many operators will be unaware that these new charges exist. Most of this seasons hunters coming into NZ will have brought the tickets pre the rule change but not all.
NZPHGA with its support network(NZTIA)are doing all that we can, and so are several other groups with firearms etc. you'd be in for a surprise if you where on your way to NZ for a sporting clays comp or clay shoot in general. So lots of people are getting on to this.

Keep making noise guys
Thanks GT

quote:

Originally posted by highlander:
Yeah Muzza, 100% the NZPHGA is involved in this, as you'll appreciate with our hunting season just beginning many operators will be unaware that these new charges exist. Most of this seasons hunters coming into NZ will have brought the tickets pre the rule change but not all.
NZPHGA with its support network(NZTIA)are doing all that we can, and so are several other groups with firearms etc. you'd be in for a surprise if you where on your way to NZ for a sporting clays comp or clay shoot in general. So lots of people are getting on to this.

Keep making noise guys
Thanks GT

This charge by Air New Zealand could affect the number of hunters coming to New Zealand therefore affecting the viability of some jobs and also some tourism. It could also affect the viability of some of the shooting competitions run in New Zealand.

I was in the US a couple of years ago and got talking to a lady in the souvenir shop in Yellowstone NP. She had been to New Zealand and when I asked her about her experience she thought the prices charged to do some of the tourist attractions were rather exorbitant and bordered on the obscene......She had talked about this with other friends in the US and the friends had travelled elsewhere in the world.

The actions by some can have rolling affects for years to come.

Thanks Gerald . The more people get involved the more chance of a revocation of this dumb-arse tax.

Is there an email campain happening to Air NZ? If not we could start one here on AR. Encourage overseas hunters to smash them with emails.

Yeah, could someone ask the moderators to push the issue on various topic forums? Has anyone here got the ear of these guys?

Well - they do have a Facebook page . Perhaps if the page was bombarded with questions on this subject someone may take note .

Shall I start the ball rolling? EDIT - I see Kiwishooter2 has already been there , so the more the merrier.

https://www.facebook.com/AirNewZealand

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
Well - they do have a Facebook page . Perhaps if the page was bombarded with questions on this subject someone may take note .

Shall I start the ball rolling? EDIT - I see Kiwishooter2 has already been there , so the more the merrier.

https://www.facebook.com/AirNewZealand

Muzza, yep been there done that now hopefully a lot of other firearms owners will do the same thing......lets keep Air New Zealand staff busy trying to answer our questions and keep it in the public eye and most of all don't give up until the fee is reversed.

quote:

Originally posted by highlander:
Do you know if this is just in relation to Aussie?
Be interested to get their reason, my thoughts are that it may be as much to do with ground handling in Aus as it is to Air NZ?
Thoughts or facts anybody

Sorry matt missd this post earlier.

AirNZ have just changed ground handling companies. From memory there are 2. One for the engineering, turning plane around, check in the other for cleaning, food etc.

well , I tackled them on their Facebook page . Seems they dont want to discuss it in public. Heres the link
https://www.facebook.com/AirNewZealand?fref=ts

Feel free to join the public discussion.

And here is the response from the Air New Zealand customer help desk

"Thank you for your correspondence seeking justification of the firearms fee charged for International travel.

Firstly, the firearms fee that is now charged is not a tax. It is a fee which has been determined by Air New Zealand to cover the administration costs associated with the carriage of firearms.

The firearms fee also covers the costs that our ground handlers apply to firearm processing on our behalf. The ground handlers are required to handle fire arms separately, process support documents and are loaded separately into the aircraft. We do not charge a handling fee for passengers who are travelling with other sporting or baby equipment as these items do not require the same level of clearance and do not involve additional administration requirements.

Murray, I trust the above has provided clarification on the firearms fee introduced for International travel. We hope to have you travel with Air New Zealand in the near future and trust we will better meet your expectations at that time."

So - now it isnt Customs who are passing on the charges as earlier stated , but Air New Zealands own staff.

Whatever next , I wonder....

quote:

Originally posted by highlander:
Do you know if this is just in relation to Aussie?
Be interested to get their reason, my thoughts are that it may be as much to do with ground handling in Aus as it is to Air NZ?
Thoughts or facts anybody

As Rule 303 above says Air New Zealand have changed ground handling companies (Didn't know this)
Since the tax is applied if you are traveling to Aussie, USA, Canada, Europe or anywhere Internationally with a firearm it isn't only single country related.

quote:

Originally posted by muzza:
well , I tackled them on their Facebook page . Seems they dont want to discuss it in public. Heres the link
https://www.facebook.com/AirNewZealand?fref=ts

Feel free to join the public discussion.

And here is the response from the Air New Zealand customer help desk

"Thank you for your correspondence seeking justification of the firearms fee charged for International travel.

Firstly, the firearms fee that is now charged is not a tax. It is a fee which has been determined by Air New Zealand to cover the administration costs associated with the carriage of firearms.

The firearms fee also covers the costs that our ground handlers apply to firearm processing on our behalf. The ground handlers are required to handle fire arms separately, process support documents and are loaded separately into the aircraft. We do not charge a handling fee for passengers who are travelling with other sporting or baby equipment as these items do not require the same level of clearance and do not involve additional administration requirements.

Murray, I trust the above has provided clarification on the firearms fee introduced for International travel. We hope to have you travel with Air New Zealand in the near future and trust we will better meet your expectations at that time."

So - now it isnt Customs who are passing on the charges as earlier stated , but Air New Zealands own staff.

Whatever next , I wonder....

So if this tax is for what they say it is for how come the difference in tax they charge for travelling to different destinations??

How can it cost NZ$120 to go to Aussie (except Perth) yet cost NZ$200 to go to Perth, then how come it costs AUD$120 to come home from Aussie or AUD$200 from Perth?

The variation in tax they charge for handling a firearm is the same as what they charge for baggage that weighs between 23kg & 32kg, but the overweight baggage cost is based on distance travelled (fuel costs) not handling costs.

If at all it was based on what they say the cost would be the same departing New Zealand no matter where you were travelling to.

Another thought is that if it is baggage handling costs the baggage handling companies would not only be charging for International travel but domestic travel as well.

So taking all the above into account we come back to it just another tax to add to the profit figures.