How do they compare???

It all depends on what species you are referring to - the domestic buffalo gone feral (Bubalis bubalis) or the Wild Buffalo (Bubalis arni).

They are totally different species and very different in levels of aggression, size, danger etc.

Bubalis arni will charge an elephant. They kill people regularly in the wild.

A tiger will not take on a mature bull Bubalis arni (but tigers regularly kill bull Gaur and Bubalis bubalis).

water buffalo, gone feral or wild can be fun to hunt. Neither has any history of aggression faintly comparing to Cape Buffalo as far as I have read.

I have thought about hunting water buffalo, but remembering them being used to plow fields in RVN keeps me from taking them too seriously.

And the Water Buffalo hasn't had 100 years of being written about as "Dangerous game", wooooo.

Haven't hunted Cape Buff but have Water buff
and had them charge, back up into a thicket of Saplings and wait for us, take a circuitous route and try to come at me from behind,
need I go on ?

NitroExpress has written a good piece on this
subject on the NE Forum.

Shucks even "domesticated cattle" will do that!

I have not the experience of some on here but I have shot 2 of each (2 in Zimbabwe, 2 in northern Aussie)..

Both are black(ish)

Both are easy to hit (ie. LARGE targets)

Both are easy to sneak up on if you have the wind

Both are fun to hunt

Both are mostly easy to hunt (flat sandy terrian in warm pleasant weather)

Both can soak lead up from a large bore rifle

One is WAY overly hyped and the other is much under appreciated.

Thanks for your insights.... As much as I would like to return to Africa life is short, not a bad goal to see and experience other parts of the world while carrying a rifle.

I'm sitting at 21 buffalo spread across Africa, Argentina and Australia. With a bit of luck I'll be able to add a couple or three in the coming months in Australia and Moz.

So far, none have taken a swing at me. None, as in zilch, nada, zero. Its almost like they aren't going to.

Fun to hunt? Sure. Tough to kill? Check, or at least they die awful slow. Difficulty to hunt seems to have more to do with local conditions and numbers than anything else.

The Aussie water buff resemble the "arni" type water buff perfectly.

"arni"?

I only hunted a cape, but I think, hit them ( any wild cattle ungulates ) badly in thick stuff, they will all come. They all are genetically conditioned to fend off large predators.
ultimately it all depends on place and time and how much they get harassed by predators.

Water Buff cows with young are nearly as bad.
Can almost guarantee a charge !

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
I have not the experience of some on here but I have shot 2 of each (2 in Zimbabwe, 2 in northern Aussie)..

Both are black(ish)

Both are easy to hit (ie. LARGE targets)

Both are easy to sneak up on if you have the wind

Both are fun to hunt

Both are mostly easy to hunt (flat sandy terrian in warm pleasant weather)

Both can soak lead up from a large bore rifle

One is WAY overly hyped and the other is much under appreciated.

Your last sentence should go down in hunting lore. Not so sure it was most succinctly put but 100% true

Matt must be in the bush or he would have been all over my post!

Rich - just do a bit research on Assam Wild buffalo & you will see a lot of info on how dangerous they are! there are very few left in the wild and they are not hunted BUT they do kill people each year.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
"arni"?

See first post by Nakihunter - Bubalis Ami

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:
I have not the experience of some on here but I have shot 2 of each (2 in Zimbabwe, 2 in northern Aussie)..
Asiatics in Australia lack the predators they have in Africa (man and best).

Both are black(ish)

Both are easy to hit (ie. LARGE targets)

Both are easy to sneak up on if you have the wind

Both are fun to hunt

Both are mostly easy to hunt (flat sandy terrian in warm pleasant weather)

Both can soak lead up from a large bore rifle

One is WAY overly hyped and the other is much under appreciated.

Your last sentence should go down in hunting lore. Not so sure it was most succinctly put but 100% true

Most likely!!

Asiatic Buffalo ((NT) v's Cape Buffalo - generally accepted -

Asiatic heavier than a cape, on average.
Asiatic do not form the large defensive herds (with multiple bulls) like Capes.
Asiatic not AS inclined to attack at close quarters, as a Cape (defensive tactics?)

That is about all I know, aside from basic anatomical differences.

Some people will tell you that Capes are naturally more wary, spooky etc... but that is most likely just conditioning in certain areas.

If we started a thread about known attacks by each species, anyone care to hazard a guess which one dominates...?

As one Robert Ruark wrote over half a century ago RE Cape Buffalo: "they simply look at you as if you owe them money."

Not belittling the Asian, but comparing them to the Cape is like comparing mountain lions to leopards.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
If we started a thread about known attacks by each species, anyone care to hazard a guess which one dominates...?

Well if you have more people around and hunting Cape Buffalo, it's only natural that more people
are going to get charged !

And by "attack" do you mean attacked
or charged after someone had put a
bullet in them ?

FYI, Water Buffalo have charged and killed
people and horses totally unprovoked.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:


As one Robert Ruark wrote over half a century ago RE Cape Buffalo: "they simply look at you as if you owe them money."

I would say that as a creative writer who was also a raging alcoholic, [46 bottles of gin over a 42 day safari]

that his stories may have been just a little embelished, ..just like the stories from his alcohlic idol, Hemingway.

BY accounts, Ruark was also a macho loud mouth bragger type[of his hunting exploits]
when attending social events/cocktail parties.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
If we started a thread about known attacks by each species, anyone care to hazard a guess which one dominates...?

As one Robert Ruark wrote over half a century ago RE Cape Buffalo: "they simply look at you as if you owe them money."

Not belittling the Asian, but comparing them to the Cape is like comparing mountain lions to leopards.

Why NOT compare them, they are very similar in many respects?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

Some people will tell you that Capes are naturally more wary, spooky etc... but that is most likely just conditioning in certain areas.

I have even seen that in Cape Buffalo from different areas. Particularly notable in one area without Lion compared with those areas that have Lion.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

Some people will tell you that Capes are naturally more wary, spooky etc... but that is most likely just conditioning in certain areas.

I have even seen that in Cape Buffalo from different areas. Particularly notable in one area without Lion compared with those areas that have Lion.

Makes sense to me.

A friend of mine hunted in Masailand last year and she said the Cape buffalo (thousands) were standing around like dumb-arses. On the contrary - I just finished a hunt for Asiatic buffalo, some bulls that were particularly sneaky - having been pursued regularly before and were really switched-on. We ended-up taking a bull that I knew, on a remote swamp, one that tried to take a piece of me when I was there last year hunting pigs. He showed the same agressive behhaviour this time around, right before we killed him.

What I am getting at is it is, IMO, more about the environment and local and situational circumstances than the animal themselves.

Well having shot a heap of water buff........well two actually, a cow for meat and a bull and hopefully bagging a cape buff in September/October, I'll pretty soon be an expert in all things buff hunting I'll let you all know which one is tougher when I get back

quote:

"I have never been charged by a buffalo, despite killing some 700 of these animals.
But do you think any hunter would believe me when I say this? " WDM Bell

LIkely not a lot, because it seems numerous people prefer to hear embelished stories by professional alcoholics
[like Hemingway,Ruark,Crapstick]..who just happened to also take up African hunting....

CRapstick worked as a bartender in Botswana....and bought his PH license in Zambia, like anyone could at the time.

In most countries you had to work under a PH for a period and then do proficiency tests both written and in the field to obtain a licence.
Tanzania & Zambia being exceptions.

quote:

Originally posted by Bakes:
....... and hopefully bagging a cape buff in September/October, ....

Sure hope you do mate!!

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Water Buff cows with young are nearly as bad.
Can almost guarantee a charge !

I 100% believe 505G's experience, but it is completely different to mine. Where I hunt, they never charge, not ever.

They think Nigel is molesting their young'uns... and charge!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

Some people will tell you that Capes are naturally more wary, spooky etc... but that is most likely just conditioning in certain areas.

I have even seen that in Cape Buffalo from different areas. Particularly notable in one area without Lion compared with those areas that have Lion.

YUP

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

What I am getting at is it is, IMO, more about the environment and local and situational circumstances than the animal themselves.

A friend of mine "Blackfoot design" hunted one particular bull water buffalo for quite a few day and found him quite difficult to get onto. He put this down to the fact that he was on a Crop farm and the buff were getting persecuted quite a bit.
A hard life keeps your edge.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
If we started a thread about known attacks by each species, anyone care to hazard a guess which one dominates...?

As one Robert Ruark wrote over half a century ago RE Cape Buffalo: "they simply look at you as if you owe them money."

Not belittling the Asian, but comparing them to the Cape is like comparing mountain lions to leopards.

Not bad from someone that has never hunted or witnessed an Asiatic buffalo hunt in Australia. Obviously never been to the NT or would have some understanding as to why relatively few people are killed or injured there by buffalo.
A week before my first trip to the NT in 2005 a guy had been killed by a buff out Nhulunbuy way. When I was up there last year I happened to meet a station owner who had spent several months in hospital the year prior after being gored by a buffalo heifer. Someone forgot to tell those two animals that they aren't dangerous.

Arguing about which is tougher is pointless. They are both big animals that can hurt you if things go wrong. I think a lot of it also depends on the individual animal. As I think I've said here before, a mate of mine who was a guide rates the scrub bulls as tougher and nastier than water buff.......

Bakes

Fair call.

Not sure about tougher but nastier !

Buffalo run rings around a scrub bull in the toughness department. Not even in the same league. Scrub bulls are cool, very cool animals to hunt though ....

I believe both are very intersting and fun to hunt ,and you can have problems with both if you dont connect the FIRST shot properly .

I have experienced interesting charges with water buffalos here in Argentina most of them ,after being shot ,or when we drive them with our dogs .
Some hunts were very easy ,and some a nigthmare in the swamps and bush after a bad shot .
If you connect a perfect shot with a good caliber ,things can be very easy .
On the other hand ,i believe cape buffalos are one of the more funnies species to be hunted ,so you need to experiment both to have an opinion .

I thank God that I've had the opportunity to hunt 6 different species of cattle. God willing, I want to end life saying that I had to opportunity to hunt all the wild cattle of the world.
From my perspective, the Cape was the toughest hunt, thick bush and very difficult to get a shot opportunity. My Argentine water buff was the toughest animal in that he absorbed the most lead. The Aussie Scrub Bull was the wildest, 2d only to my Bison, and most likely to flee at a high rate of speed upon the mere suggestion that a hunter was in the same zip code. My Savannah was also an extremely wary animal living in thick bush, thus a challenging hunt.
By far, the absolute meanest of the bunch was old "Roany" that lived on a neighbors ranch. That old biddy would attack any human she could find - even if you were on horseback - and she was out for blood. Roany was impossible to pen without roping her and she ruined at least 2 good roping horses before she succombed to a well aimed 30-06.
All were extremely challenging hunts and I enjoyed the travel and experience. Of course, this is only my experience. Others are much more experienced than I and will have different observations than I've had with my limited sample. Next on my bucket list, Banteng and Dwarf Forrest Buffs.

Great post Pancho!! Dwarf buff are cool - I would like to try and get one one day. Where would you hunt for one? Apparently that Congo concesssion has heaps. I just spent a few days with Jim Shockey, hunting buff and scrub bulls and he said he would do that Congo buff hunt again in a heartbeat.

In todays Outdoor Hub daily email is this tale.
It started off nicely with the hunter taking one on with his bow,then it all turns to crap with the veehheeickle used as a chaser and a safe place to shoot from.I`m sure the old boys would shake their heads!

http://www.outdoorhub.com/stor...ire%201&utm_content=

High fence cape buffalo - what do you expect?

Pancho:
You ever been around wild bramha's?
We raised 'em and got quite an education
about Sacred Cattle!

Glad you're gettin out and doing these hunts.
Wish you well and safe too.
George