Howdy Men,

I'm getting ready to buy a dedicated varmint rifle and would like opinions on caliber. Right now, I'm stuck between a 204 and a 243.

The main critters I'm going after are coyotes, just so you know. Also, how are these two calibers in relation to barrel life?

The .204 Ruger is bound to be one of the premier all time prairie dog guns....second to none. If you want to start a sparring fight on the net......start a thread with "is the .204 ok for yotes ?"
I killed to coyotes with my .204...it worked....it would not however be my primary weapon of choice for that purpose again.

Go the .243, better for coyotes out of the two you mentioned.
The .204 is hit or miss when it comes to humane dispatch of coyotes, the .243 will kill them instantly everytime.

Interesting question, I have a Remington 700 ADL that I bought in 1974 for a coyote rifle and still use it to this day. I hunt out in the western part of the state at times where shots can be a little long at times. I can't tell you how many shots have been taken with that rifle, but it still shots nice
The 204 I have has been an absolute pleasure to shoot prairie dogs with but as of yet I have not dropped a song dog with it, that should change this winter. I feel that the 40gr. loads will do nicely on a yote within a reasonable distance. Regardless of caliber selection a good kill still relies on proper shot placement.

From what I understand, the 17. Remington is supposed to be perfect for coyote.

I would just buy a CZ 527 in 17 Rem. No pelt damage, only 500$. You could pay it of after 30 coyots.

I to am looking and thought about a 22-250 as
well as those already stated. can't make up my mind either.
gene

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
I would just buy a CZ 527 in 17 Rem. No pelt damage, only 500$. You could pay it of after 30 coyots.

Not on California coyotes, since it's all hot weather hunting the 'yotes here don't grow a pelt worth anything. Coyote hunting for us is all fun, no profit.

TeatHound,

What besides coyotes will be be primary quarry? Do you handload? Do you want to save all of the pelts to sell?

In general the most popular varmint cartridge is the 223 and with certain bullets it will not tear pelts that bad. The 22-250 is also available in low cost factory ammo.

If your not going to save the pelts and shoot at long range the 243 will hit anything harder.

As to barrel life the 22-250 and 243 will chew up barrels. Not sure about the 204.

As for myself I like the 243 and Swift where noise is not an issue.

quote:

As to barrel life the 22-250 and 243 will chew up barrels.

I dont know about the 22-250 cause I've never used one, but the 243 chewing up barrels what kind of stuff you been smoking??

Should a crittur larger or hungrier than a coyote show up for lunch, a .243 would feel better in your hands.

Somehow this thread has taken a serious turn!!! .204 vs 243 for coyotes was the original question!!!
I LOVE THE .204!!!! BUT if I was looking for a COYOTE only rifle and the choice was thos two, I may have to go with the .243 just for the added effect of "doing the deal" when it get's there!!! Not from an accurracy standpoint because I feel the .204 is an inherrently more accurrate chambering than the .243!!(that's gonna bring on the comments!!)
But then somebody proposed a 22-250!!!.....ACCURACY, DEAD VARMINT POWER, CHEAP TO SHOOT!!!
I like the .204 but when touching a song-dog I'd like a little bit more "WHUMP" when it get's there!!! And as far as pelts go.......the fun is in the hunt!!! Here in the east the pelts aren't worth anything but the DEVASTATION is worth a story at the filling station or two!!! Now you really want to know my true feelings??>>> SHOOT THE BEAST WITH a 25-06!!! Watch the acrobatics and stuff!!! GHD

I agree completely with GHD. Anyone who thinks the .204 is better than a .243 hasn't shot a lot of coyotes.

I'ts easy to agree that a 243 will have more killing power and really put the whack on them . It's also going to leave a big gaping hole in the pelt most of the time .

Sometomes you do want those pelts , and I thnk once a few more bullet options arive , the .204 is gonna be about as good as it gets for resonable effectiveness while still putting as small a hole in the hide as possible .

I too am looking for the perfict varmint rifle.This has led me down a slippery slope of getting a 17 HMR,17 HM2,17 Rem, 22LR, 22WMR,204 Ruger,22 Hornet,221 Fireball,(222 Rem- Sold it )223Rem,22-250 Rem,220 Swift,and 243 Win, varmint rifles.Now to your question.If I were to sell the yote pelts 204 Ruger. For longer range yote shots 243 Win.but one could try some 60 Gr bullets ( low B.C.) in the 243 W for less damage than the 87 Gr bullets. The 243 Win. 100 Gr bullets makes a ok pronghorn and mule deer round while the 204 Ruger 32 Gr bullet is a fine prairie dog rifle. Why not get a 204 Ruger and a 243 Win .Its more fun to do it your self than to have a 70 year old retired person try to determine how and where you hunt and what rifle round is best for you. Have fun start a collection of firearms.

tuck, Loved that reply!!! How'd you manage to leave out the grand and glorious 222MAG while amassing that battery of varmint rifles!!! Or the king of the varint killing beasts.....the 25-06!!!??? GHD

A slippery slope we all seem to be on. In my quest for the perfect rabbit/fox rifle, we've got 22lr, 223, 22/250, 6*47, 6/250 and 243. And I'm just about to order a 221 and a 204.

AnotherAZWriter: I HAVE shot a lot of Coyotes!And the ones I have shot with the 204 Ruger cartridges were just as dead as the ones I have killed with the 243 Winchester!
If a person is Hunting alone the vastly less recoil of the 204 Ruger versus the 243 Winchester can only help ones Coyoting efforts!
Also the pelt damage of the 204 vs. the 243 might be a considerable motivation for many Coyote Hunters to choose the 204?
The flatter trajectory and the better wind bucking ability of the 204 over the 243 out to 450 yards (which covers virtually ALL normal Coyote shooting distances!) or so AGAIN would direct an open minded Coyote Rifle purchaser towards the 204!
Flatter trajectory and better wind bucking ability are two very important reasons to consider and then choose the 204 Ruger over the 243 as both those attributes will result in more first shot hits in the long run! First shot hits are important in that "second" shots (as those of us who have shot a LOT of Coyotes knows!) are most usually at Coyotes who are running at 37 M.P.H.!
Hitting targets that can dodge and run at 37 M.P.H. is difficult to say the least!
Due to the relative newness of the 204 Ruger cartridge I have killed no where near as many Coyotes with my 204's as I have with my 243's but I have no hesitation or reservations what so ever in using the 204 on Coyotes!
I am interested in hearing any rebuttals or contrary experiences from you, or anyone else?
By the way, AnotherAzWriter, how many Coyotes have you killed so far with the 204 Ruger cartridge?
Long live the 204 Ruger!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Get the .204. 25 yrs from now it'll be a collecter's item. roger

243 no comparison

VarmintGuy:

I would disagree that the .204 drifts less than the .243. You can drive a 58 gr .243 bullet nearly 4000 fps in a .243. Its BC is .250; there is nothing in a .204 that come close. Even at 4400 fps, a 33 grain .204 VMax drifts significantly more than that .243 bullet. Or, assume that your .204 can launch that bullet at 4400 fps - that 58 grain bullet only has to go 3200 fps or faster to have less wind drift, which is a piece of cake.

I have shot a few coyotes with a .223 and my observation is that they sometimes run a bit when lung hit. With more powerful calibers, they don't run. You may tear up some fur, but here in AZ I don't think it is worth anything anyway.

AzWriter

Nothing in the .204 comes close ?

A 39 gr BlitzKing with a B.C. of about 0.280 @3900 fps or so not only comes close , but maybe shades the 243 a bit .

Certainly the 243 has more power , but that .204 surely does shoot flat and buck wind with authority .

After shooting that .204 combo some , I think the the b.c. rating is probably on the conservative side .........

Don't have that bullet in my list, but if true, you are right, it would give the .243 a run for the money, at least with lighter bullets.

Pelts are of no concern here in the East. The fun is in just getting to shoot one of the groundhog eating bastards!!!
I love the .204!!! No doubt it's a flat shooting, wind bucking, accurrate little fun to shoot round, probably get in the innards of a coyote and create complete havoc!!! For us to "do the deal" on old "wilee coyote" at 450 yards, running 37 mph....it ain't gonna happen much!!! Give me something that will turn him inside out, make him do flips, AND DIE!!!! They are tough SOB's!!! Last one I shot took a 100 grain Hornady 7mm in the right shoulder(from a 7BR at 95 yards, bullet was running about 2500 at the muzzle) he dropped like a sack of potatoes!! Only to get up and go another 40 yards with basically his left shoulder GONE when I walked up to him!!! They are tough!! But pelts don't mean much as I said!!! Blow them to hell!!!! And then go call another one in!!! GHD

I was looking at the Hornady 2005 Catalog page 25 to see what they had for varmint ammo.When sited in at 200 Yds the 204 Ruger 40 Gr V-MAX bullet drops 28.1 inchs with 404 ft/lb energy while the 243 Win 58 Gr V-MAX drops 33.0 inches with 463 ft/lb energy at 500 Yds.. On page 29 the 243 Win 75 Gr HP shows a drop of 42.5 inches with 592 ft/lb energy at 500 Yds. The 204 bullet had the least drop af any varmint rounds listed. When reloading I have not found a powder for the 204 R to get the same ft/sec that Hornady claims when reloading the 32 Gr. V-MAX bullet. I have not tried the 40 Gr. bullet.

tuck, Try Accurrate 2230 to the tune of 27.8-28.3 grains with the Hornady 32 or the Sierra 32 grain bullet. You should meet and exceed the posted velocity of the factory 32's!! Running nearly 100 of the factory 32 Hornady loadings over the chronograph gave me an average velocity of 4149 fps. Only shot about 10 of the Remington 32 factory loadings but they average exactly 4225fps from my 26" barreled Savage. As far as shooting the 40 VMAXS, I haven't found any loads that were suitable! But with the 39 grain SIERRA, Accurrate 2520 at 27.5 grains does the deal. GHD

You can drive a 55gn Nosler out of the .243 using Varget or H4895 at 4000 fps . BC of this projectile is .276 . This load will virtually duplicate the trajectory and wind drift of the 40gn .204 load but has about 35% more energy at all ranges .
Heavier pills like the 87gn V Max have much less wind drift but trajectory over 500 yds isn't as flat . Easier to dope range than wind though .
No coyotes here so I've got nothing else to say on the issue .

I've shot the 55 gr b.t. in my 6mm quite a bit, loaded to about 4000 fps .

It's my impression that the 39 gr Sierra in the 204 shoots flatter out past 3-350 yards .

Again , no doubt ther 243 will put a bigger hole in them , but why stop with a miserable 243 if you really want to put the hurt on them ?

My .264 with 100 gr b.t. s loaded to 3600 fps puts an even BIGGER hole in them(grin)


For the ultimate long range dog buster (past a quarter mile) , I'd like to investigate one of those obscene 22 cal. barrel burners like the Tex Trophy Hunter or the 220 Howell , driving a 75 gr Amax at blitering speeds...

Is it my imagination or are folks who own the .204 trying to justify its existance? roger

I spose I am guilty of preaching the 204 gospel , but not because I feel a need to jusify it's existence . It's because the little cartridge is so dang IMPRRESSIVE in the field if you actually try it.

Roger , your idea that the .204 will be an antique in 25 years is good for a horselaugh .



No doubt some folks claimed the same thing when the .270 Winchester came out.....

To me the 204 is like a lot of the newer cartridges. If you want one get it, but it wont do anything that alot of other varmint cartridges have been doing for years and continue to do.

What can it do that a 223, 220 swift, 243 etc etc cant do already.

I dont shoot a 204 but a friend of mine does and not all that impressive to me. IMO not needed unless you just want one.

quote:

What can it do that a 223, 220 swift, 243 etc etc cant do already.

The 204 does what the Swift does , except it does it with about 25 grains powder instead of near 40 . It does it with cases that cost new 12 bucks per hundred , and it does it with little barrel heating and a mild muzzle blast . It also does it with so little muzzle jump you can spot your own hits.


That's the beauty of the .204..........

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
I spose I am guilty of preaching the 204 gospel , but not because I feel a need to jusify it's existence . It's because the little cartridge is so dang IMPRRESSIVE in the field if you actually try it.

Roger , your idea that the .204 will be an antique in 25 years is good for a horselaugh .



No doubt some folks claimed the same thing when the .270 Winchester .256, .264,.244,.358 Norma 6.5Rem, .308 Norma .375Win.8mm Rem. a bunch of short fats and the .204 came out.....

Enjoy it while you may. Its vast bullet selection may save it much longer than my crystal ball indicates. roger

Go ahead and have a good chuckle Roger .

But several local dealers have told me that the .204 is the hottest selling thing they have in the smaller centerfire calibers . One even has a whole section of his rack devoted to .204 s of various brands(Ruger , Savage , Remington, CZ, and I think Browning) and models.

Nosler is coming out with at least one 20 cal. bullet later this year. That in addition already to Hornaday , Sierra , and Berger , so go ahead and giggle whilst ya can.....(grin)

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:

quote:

What can it do that a 223, 220 swift, 243 etc etc cant do already.

The 204 does what the Swift does , except it does it with about 25 grains powder instead of near 40 . It does it with cases that cost new 12 bucks per hundred , and it does it with little barrel heating and a mild muzzle blast . It also does it with so little muzzle jump you can spot your own hits.


That's the beauty of the .204..........

My dad said if you believe that you are full of shit as a christmas turkey and I tend to agree with him. He's owned both and hunts coyotes all the time.

SDGS, Roger lives in Kalifornia where there gun laws and restrictions probably prohibits him from testing the way he'd like too!!
Roger, Not really a slap but a pity!!! The .204 is here for a long while!!! I don't call it the .204 ..... because I have trouble even typing that word!!(Go ahead VG, J.I.M.S.!!!(jump in my ddo-doo if y'all didn't get that!!")
There are several more pronounced "varmint rounds" that come to mind when thinking of " varminting only" but the .204 offers some things that haven't been seen in mass produced offerings before!! The sheer lack of recoil coupled with the ridicoulously flat trajectory compared with the SWIFT, 22-250, various 6's makes it a winner!!!! Now take a .223 (as somebody stated already) add a muzzle brake to it, 8" or 9" twist barrel and shoot the 75 AMAXS.......yes that works too.....with the brake!!! And it takes the super heavy duty .224's (68's, 70's, 75's or 80's) to compete with the .204's for long range (long range to some folks is 300 yards!!!) with the .204 for just pure fun, watch the impact(no brake needed!!) I just traded my 6mmVLS today(it was darn good to 700 yards!!!!) for a shotgun!!! The .204 will handle the up to 600 yard stuff and then the 300SAUM shooting light bullets to 800-900 and heavier(168's) can handle the rest!! My fun post for the day!! Go ahead and JIMS if y'all want too!!! GHD PS: VG, Just tested the first load in the .260 VLS today.......I can live with .092!!!! Now the .260 is going to have to rank in there somewhere!!!

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
SDGS, Roger lives in Kalifornia where there gun laws and restrictions probably prohibits him from testing the way he'd like too!!
Roger, Not really a slap but a pity!!!

No offence taken GHD. Sadly I'm kinda locked into CA. as much as I'd like to get back to rural living. How close to Blacks Burg do you live? An ex brother-in-law of mine owns a dairy farm in that area, Penhook.

Groundhog devastation: Wow your Remington 700 VLS in 260 Remington shoots even better than mine!
I just finished clenaing all the gumbo off of my 260 VLS last night!
All of my clothing and all of my equipment - even Rifles, daypacks, spotting scopes, binoculars and cameras were covered with gumbo from my recent Antelope/Varmint Safari! The ONLY piece of my gear that did not have "GUMBO" on it was my prized Leica Laser Rangefinder! I had to keep it INSIDE my shirt, inside my coat and inside the rain parka to achieve that!
I did kill one Coyote with the 260 VLS!
Yeah for flipping and dipping Varmints that is a nifty rig!
I am just thrilled that your 260 VLS shoots so well!
I am using the Nosler 100 gr. Ballistic Tip in my "jumbo" Varminter! I consider anything over 25 caliber as a "jumbo" Varminter!
What bullet are you using in your 260 VLS?
Yeah these folks that berate the 204 Ruger cartridge are simply missing out on one of the greatest "all around" Varmint cartridges EVER invented!
And I consider myself an all around Varminter!
I KNOW what the 204 can do compared to the 243 and about every other Varmint cartridge ever shot!
I did some early morning Elk scouting and Varmint Hunting today and then on my way home I stopped by my friends private range to recheck the zero of my Elk/Black Bear Rifle. And to re-sight in my Remington 700 Sendero in caliber 270 Winchester. This 270 Sendero was my Antelope Rifle on my recent snow/incessant rain/gumbo plagued Antelope/Varmint Safari.
Anyway my 270 Sendero was repeatedly taken afield in rain/sleet/snow and gumbo mud!
I got home and disassembled the Rifle and coated it with Break-Free! I then thoroughly re-cleaned it and re-assembled it and torqued it to the former torque settings!
At the range session today I fired TWO shots with this wonderful Rifle! Both shots went virtually through the SAME hole! I bet the hole does not measure 30 caliber AND it had returned to its exactly intended (previous) point of impact (2.4" high at 100 yards)!
I simply shook my head and put that wonderful Sendero back in its case to await Mulie rutting time!
I saw just about EVERYTHING here in SW Montana that there is to see in my travels today!
I saw Moose, Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope galore, Whitetailed Deer, Buffalo, Fox, a Porcupine, one Coyote, Ducks of all kinds, Geese, Sandhill Cranes, Ravens, Bald Eagles, Hawks, Magpies, Falcons, White Pelicans, Golden Eagles and smaller birds galore!
It was simply an awesome fall day here at 6,000' (+) elevations! I even saw Trout rising in two different creeks as the temperature eventually hit 66 degrees!
Supposed to rain again tomorrow so I thought I would get my scouting and resighting in done on a bright warm fall day!
I simply can not understand why all of you guys do not just up and move to Montana (Varmint Paradise!)?
Long live Montana!
Long live Remington!
I only wish I had brought more 204 ammo along with me today!
I hesitate to mention the effect that 204 had on this large Porcupine!
If I told the whole story about it I am worried I might offend another "Badger Lover" type!
But fear or trepidate not animal lovers - Porcupines are legal Varmints for Hunting here in Montana and are considered very desirable to keep thinned out (for various reasons!).
Long live the 204 Ruger also!
Some one above mentioned (I did not fully understand I guess) that the 204's don't have many bullets to choose from! I beg to differ with this as adamantly as I did with AnotherAzWriter about the 204's wonderful ballistics!
I just wish more folks would ACTUALLY try out stuff before they try and tear it down!
Did anyone see if AnotherAzWriter has actually ever, owned, shot or killed anything with the 204?
I am in to good a mood to "completely destroy" another "novices" reputation tonight so I will save that for another day - I guess!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

bartshe, Actually I'm closer to Penhook than I am to Blacksburg!!! I live about 25 minutes from Penhook!!! And an hour from Blacksburg!! And running a dairy farm in Penhook.......whose???? I know all the farmers here as I was a dairy farmer, custom farmer(planting and harvesting) and now I'm a District Sales Manager for a hybrid seed corn company!! I bet I know the guy you're talking about!! GHD PS: Your former BIL wouldn't have the first name of James and last name starts with "C" would he?????

VG, Now October in Montana is one of the things that everybody ought to experience at least once!!! BT,DT!!! NOT ENOUGH TIMES!! I would move there in a heartbeat if I could!!! The mulies, antelopes, some ridicoulous whitetails, THE VARMINTS, the fishing.......what's not to love!!
And you mentioned the sandhill cranes!!! If somebody has never witnessed the sandhill cranes staging for their migration......it is an awesome sight!!!! And the sound of it is prety awesome too!!
Maybe I can get on at "Western Powders" in Miles City!!! Wonder if they need a "test engineer"?????
Hopefully the .260 will get a bit ore extensive test tomorrow!! I've got a bunch of "friends" rifles to get ready tomorrow(they are known as "customers" when they bring stuff in 2-3 weeks ahead of hunting season!! There is an ENCORE 7mm-08 to develop, a CVA ML that I put a scope on tonite and need to shoot in tomorrow, a 700 Laminated, ventilated .204 that has been owned by the guy for 4 months, never shot, and he wants the barrel broken in and the rifle "field ready"! My .260 should be able to have ample cooling time while testing all this stuff!! And the darn little Stevens 200 in 25-06 will have some more testing also!!! It's ridicoulously easy to load for and get super groups!!! it did a .352 using 56.5 grains of A3100 and the 117 grain SierraSBT!!! (which just happens to be my favorite all time deer killing bullet!!) I don't think it has been out of the .7's with anything I've shot in it!!! Now for some velocity figures!! The load in the .260 was 43.0 grains of VARGET and the 95 grain VMAX. Later! Charlie (GHD)

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
bartshe, Actually I'm closer to Penhook than I am to Blacksburg!!! I live about 25 minutes from Penhook!!! And an hour from Blacksburg!! And running a dairy farm in Penhook.......whose???? I know all the farmers here as I was a dairy farmer, custom farmer(planting and harvesting) and now I'm a District Sales Manager for a hybrid seed corn company!! I bet I know the guy you're talking about!! GHD PS: Your former BIL wouldn't have the first name of James and last name starts with "C" would he?????

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