What is the best out-of-the-box varmit gun under $700. This would be used for praire dogs.

Savage 12BVSS stainless,fluted barrel, and accu-trigger.Will be some money left over to put towards a good scope also.

woods

Sean
I bought an excellent used Sako L579 in 22-250 that shoots 3/4" 5 shot groups with factory ammo.I'm no crack shot so for me that is pretty good.I paid $600.00 for the gun.Used may be a good option.

Jeff

My money would go for (and did) a Remington 700VLS in 223. Mine shoots .5 inch groups right out of the box with 24.2g of AA22230 under a Sierra 52 BTHP. I happen to be a fan of Remington's.
A friend just took delivery of one of the Savage's with the SS/fluted barrel and had it at the range last week. He was just zero'ing it in and wasn't ready to comment on it except to say the tigger was real smooth, but took some time to get used to.

MDH

Sean: For under $700.00 you can get one of the new Remington 700 VLSS Rifles. This beautiful Rifle looks TEN times better than any Savage ever made and it will shoot better also! The resale value should you run on hard times would also be a higher percentage of your original investment!
This new limited edition Remington I am suggesting for you has a 26" barrel, the trigger on it can be adjusted by you to an ultra crisp 32 ounces! The Varmint style laminated stock on this model Remington is silver and black laminate with an attractive black pistol grip cap. This stock is just about perfect in my experience for all around Varminting. I would suggest getting this Rifle in caliber 22-250 for Prairie Dog Hunting. It would also be a splendid Rifle for Coyote calling. The barrel and action are stainless and will make a very handsome Rifle for you. Try and find one of these beautiful Rifles and give it a good looking over and see how it fits you! I am sure if you try one it will turn out to be very accurate for you! I have seen these "limited edition" Rifles priced from $639.00 to $679.00.
Good luck with whichever you choose!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I dissagre with the ststement that a remington will out shoot a savage ive sold three remingtons and replaced them with a savage why because they just shoot better no their not a pretty gun but who cares what it looks like if it wont shoot I got a new savage with the accu trigger its awesome shoots awesome better than the Rem 700 vls i sold to get this savage. Now some remingtons will shoot ok but I think youll have a better chance getting a savage to shoot than a rem

My experience is much the same as turkey hunter's. Odds are that a new manufacture savage varmiter will outshoot a new manufacture remington varmiter.

Have to agree with the Savage BVSS in 223. Do not know anything of the new Rem 700 Varmint, as mentioned above. But what I've heard, Rem quality control has gone down the toilet. The new trigger from Savage is sweet, the 1/9 twist in the buttoned rifle barrel will handle the 69 Sierra MKs nicely, along with all 55s too. Getting past the 'ugly' part, its not really ugly.....the laminated SS is rather nice.So, put your name on the list to get one of the BVSS series in 223, you'll like it. Also available in s/shot again. I have all the older series, before the new trigger, in 223s, 7-08, 308, 260 AI and 300 win. All in HB varmint/tactical series. All shoot 'very' well. Sold my last 700 last year....

I own both the Remington varmint and Savage varmint and in out of the box configuration it was no contest, the Savage was the more accurate rifle.Both guns are 22-250 and both will shoot under an inch with even factory ammo but the Savage is truly incredible with ragged one hole groups the norm with most loads.Plus with the money you save you could have Fred Moreo at Sharp Shooter Supply true and square the action for possibily even better accuracy Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and ragged one hole groups are pretty beautiful to a long range varmint hunter Good Shooting with whatever you choose.



woods

[ 04-16-2003, 17:04: Message edited by: woodseye ]

Thanks for all the help. It sounds like a Savage 12BVSS or a Remington 700 Varmit is the way to go.

I think its a real hoot! Guys trash Remingtons and brag up Winchesters and Savages and then turn around and suggest you send them off to a gunsmith and have them worked on. Well, duh.

Have you thought about a Tikka. They make a nice looking and accurate varmit rifle. I have a Tikka in a .243 and it will out shoot my 22-250 RemVLS. Just a thought, i have been inpressd with mine. They come with aluminum bedding and the triger can be ajusted by turning one allen skrew. Tikkas varmit rifle is called the Continetal.

I would go with a Savage also.But I would also think about a Contender Carbine.

yes.....look at a Tikka, before any of the RemChesters........

In case your post was aimed at me Beeman I didn't "trash" Remington I simply gave my experiences with both guns that I own.Yes the Savage was more accurate "out of the box" sorry but facts are facts.I suggested that with money not spent in budget you could have the Savage action checked for true,since Remingtion guys do this also, as well as any accuracy seeking shooters it wasn't meant as something you "have" to do for good accuracy out of either gun.My Savage will shoot .500 groups with boring regularity out of the box with no mods what so ever.My Remington will shoot .780 groups out of the box also.Neither gun has been "reworked or tweaked" by any gunsmiths,for the money spent and accuracy obtained in this manner<I consider the Savage to be the more accurate and the better gun. I knew when I said that about action squaring there would be someone to take it out of context and try to use it against Savage,congrats In the case of this comparison Savage has the better accuracy and trigger for a factory gun nuff said.

woods

[ 04-17-2003, 15:50: Message edited by: woodseye ]

Have you looked at the CZ in 223? I saw some the other day. One in nine twist, heavy bbl, laminated stock. 520+. Seemed good to me.

For you savage guys, I did not intend to start Savage vs Rem brew-haha. In my earlier post, I did not say a Rem will out shoot a Savage out of the box - only that my Rem shoots well out of the box. I do not own a Savage and cannot comment on their abilities. I actually paid a compliment to the Savage given what my friend has told me.
As long as we're all out shooting and having fun -they are ALL great guns IMHO.

MDH

I love my savages but I do have one rem left that i did not sell and it shoots great its just my experience that my savages outshot my remingtons easily, howerver remington makes some nice guns ive just been converted to savages

My experiance is the savage 12bvss-s 223 that I have had for a month or so and my cz527 varmit in 223 both with 1/9 barrells are the most accurate under 700.00 rifles I have ever owned with out any modifications. And neither needs any trigger work, the cz has a set trigger and the savage has the new accutrigger. The cz gets the edge if you wanted to carry it. The savage gets the edge in ammo it likes. I have not found a load the savage don't like. The cz is a little more finikie. They are both very accurate. I have a couple remingtons they are good guns but are not as good as the above mentioned out of the box.

Anyone that would state that savage bolt action Rifles have better triggers than Remington bolt action triggers is making an obviously erroneous statement! That anyone includes woodseye from Maine! That is simply an uninformed and ludicrous statement! NOTHING could be further from the truth! Perhaps woodseye is trying to be funny. I do not know - it did make me laugh after a while! It made me gasp at first that someone could make such an incorrect comparison! Personally I think its something more than an incorrect statement - it is just purposely being contrary for contrary's sake! Perhaps the woodseye is trying (as so often happens on these type bulletin boards) to get a rise out of people who know better. Well I am taking the bait this time (I usually refrain from the bait!) and calling BULLSHIT! The Remington trigger is head and shoulders above the savage! As a matter of fact I do not know a factory trigger on a centerfire bolt action Rifle today that is WORSE than the savage. The creepy club of a trigger on the savage bolt guns is the number two reason I refuse to own one of them! The number one reason of course is they are so cheap looking and ugly! Go ahead and take your ugly savage Rifles out in public! People are laughing at you behind your back. That is most people are! I am laughing in your face! Life is to short to shoot an ugly, club like, stick triggered - third rate savage Rifle.
You just keep telling yourself that Savage Rifles are more accurate than Remington Rifles and the next time you are on the high plains I will make you $100.00 poorer in a head to head competition!
Please retract your ludicrous statement regarding "the top o' the line savages"! You only have this one chance to redeem any part of your reputation. savage triggers are better! LOL!
Long reign Remington over savage!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

vg
You obiviously have not seen or used a Savage with an accu-trigger on it or you wouldn't have made yourself look so foolish with your statements and post.Flame all you want,the accu-trigger is about the best trigger on the market right now and unlike the walker designed Remington trigger much lighter in pull and safer.The post isn't important enough to debate with ya on,its just not that big a deal with me,I answered the question posed with experience with both guns did you?Flame on but at least know what your talking about or you will damage your own credibility bad mouthing a new trigger you apparently know nothing about.Also name calling is the first sign of someone unable to debate with facts or even debate at all.Good Shooting Chief.

woods

[ 04-17-2003, 20:04: Message edited by: woodseye ]

I am new to varmint rifles, and I just purchased a brand-new Remington 700VS .22-250 on close-out for $499. I thought I got a good deal, but from what I am reading it sounds like I should have gone with the Savage. On a side note, I am taking it in to a gunsmith to get the trigger lightened. What would be a good weight to get it lightened to?

Thanks.

blong04,
Don't give up on the 700 yet! I've been very happy with mine. I also had the trigger on mine adjusted down to 3.5 pounds. This is a big difference from how it comes from the factory. If your not familiar with light triggers, you may want to start at around 4 lbs, see how you like it, and go from there.
Good luck, I think you'll be happy with it.

MDH

woodseye: Exactly what name did I call you? You are as wrong about that as you are about the savage triggers and Rifles! I do say that your misinformation in regards to the savage Rifles in my experience is bullshit and I will re-iterate that here and now! It is bullshit! I have as much experience with Remington Rifles as anyone on this board! I have shot alongside as many Savage Rifles at the range and in the field as anyone on this board. And I have sold and inspected savage Rifles to as great an extent as anyone on this board! They are nowhere near the Rifle a Remington 700 is! Never have been and I doubt they ever will be. With a simple and quick adjustment to the 700's trigger (that virtually anyone can do) the Remington trigger is crisper, will have less creep and be as safe as anything I have ever seen on a savage. That includes their new triggers! Please go try a properly adjusted Remington trigger along side any savage factory job! Then try and be honest and espouse in this public forum the truth of your comparison! The Remington is obviously superior in my unbiased opinion!
Yes I will from time to time (of my choosing) defend Remingtons and will defunct the baseless and inappropriate Remington bashing. I have owned at least 100 Remington bolt action Rifles in the past 37 years and have yet to have one fail me! Safety or accuracy wise.
The Remington in my experiences is simply a much better investment dollar per dollar and all things considered than a savage of any bolt model!
Next I am sure you will try and tell the unwary that savage Rifles are more popular than Remingtons for basing custom Rifles on! Don't even dream that! I just got done reviewing the results of a BR match from this past weekend in Missoula Montana! I do not recall seeing one savage used in competition! Many Remingtons were used however and one finished at the top of the days competition!
I think it is doing a disservice to new shooters and people that want to buy just one Rifle and have a high expectation that it be accurate and a good all around value - and even mention the name savage. Remington is the proper suggestion in this situation! I have proven that to myself many dozens of times. If you want to stick with the savage line be my guest but do not look to go unchallenged when erroneous statements are made! I for one will tell you to your face that you are wrong. No disrespect meant or implied - I will simply tell you and anyone else the truth based on a ton of past experience! And recent and ongoing experiences as well. I will be the first to let anyone know that Remington is not a good value should that day ever come. savage is simply not only a poor value it is an unattractive hard to resell clunker!
No name calling by me - needed, done or necessary! Please do not imply such! If you want to be wrong about something and try and besmirch the most popular and best selling bolt action Rifle of all time then I wish you all the happiness in the world! But, chief, don't try and peddle your BS in my direction. I won't let you get away with it!
Long reign Remington over savage!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have the 700VLS in 6mm Rem that will normally get in the .3`s with just about any 70 gr bullet.

I dont know if you can get the 700VSSF for 700 anymore or not but if you can it is THE one to get.Mine in .308 is kinda boring to shoot.

vg
When you have to put someone elses choice of gun down by calling it names and implying they are a trolling for a response for even suggesting there is something better or even as good as what you choose to use its a sad statement.I thought in my reply you didn't know about the accu-trigger and perhaps was comparing to a standard Savage trigger so I made allowances for you(plus you never know how old some of the posters are either), but I see now your just into flaming and not one to take serious.I will simply say the accu-trigger adjusted at 1-2# is something to experience and better than any other over the counter trigger out there bar none. If your in the market for a varmint rig check out the Savage its got great out of the box accuuracy,but don't just take my word for it,ask anyone who has one

woods

Doubting Remington Thomas's: I went back to the posted results of the just finished Missoula, Montana 1,000 yard Bench Rest Competition. The results are posted at Bench Rest Central. I re-reviewed the results for the two days of competition! Over the two days of competition the Remingtons did represent 44 of the 87 listed equipment entries from all three classes! Remington did win one class and one division that day. They took the top 3 of 4 spots in another division! savage based Rifles were listed one time! AND that one time the competitor DID NOT qualify or WAS disqualified I am not sure for what reason!
Accuracy needed, strength needed, consistency needed and safety a concern at this competition - of course! Remington outnumbered the Stolles, Nesikas, savages and various others COMBINED by more than 2 to 1! Hmmmmm....... maybe there is a lesson here or an obvious conclusion! Or maybe one can come up with some CONTRARY conclusion or CONTRARY lesson! I can not wait to hear what blather it will be! I am now being amused by the contraries!
If this does not prove that the savage dogs are barking up the wrong tree I do not know what will!
The savage proponents though have obviously ignored a preponderance of evidence in the past - I guess one more venture into lala land won't do anymore harm! Yeah - right!
Long reign Remington over savage!
Thought I was done didn't you! I am not!
I suggest more folks support Remington for this additional reason! They have the balls to develop new cartridges and offer many great old cartridges over the years in their Classic line. Great old cartridges like the 35 Whelen, 300 Weatherby, 300 H&H, 257 Roberts etc. These offerings compliment the cartridges that they have spent BIG BUCKS developing and marketing to discerning shooters like the 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 222 Remington Magnum, 22-250 Remington, 22 Remington BR, 6mm Remington BR, 280 Remington, 7mm Remington Magnum, 25/06 Remington, 350 Remington Magnum, 6.5 Remington Magnum, 300 Remington Ultra Magnum, 300 Remington Ultra Mag Short Action, 7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Mag., 7mm/08 Remington, 260 Remington, 416 Remington Magnum and I am sure many other Remington proprietary cartridges I have forgotten! When did savage last develop and market a new cartridge? Could it have been 1915 when Savage introduced the 250/3000?
Long reign Remington over savage!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I havent shot the new Savage trigger so I cant coment on it but I have a # of Factory Rem triggers that will break clean at less than 2lbs at no cost other than the 30 minutes it takes me to do it.If you desire to go lower at least with the Rem you have the option of getting a world class trigger for it.I dont think Arnold Jewel makes a Savage trigger.

The results of 1000yd bench rest competition have absolutely nothing to do with out of the box accuracy of any brand of rifle. Those Remington actions are trued and blue printed and worked over to the 10th degree, not mention the after market barrels, stocks, and triggers. If you can buy one of those 1000BR rifles for under $700 please tell me where, I'd like to have one. I don't own a Savage with that new accutrigger. The last one I bought (10FP) had the god awful old style trigger on it and it had to be replaced. The last Remington I bought (Sendaro SS fluted), The trigger broke @ 7lbs from the factory. While it did feel smoother, 7lbs is 7lbs. The bolt binds when you lift the handle and is of poor quaity in my opinion. The Savage cost 1/2 of what the Remington did and it shoots A LOT tighter groups than my Sendaro or my VLS. It's not the best looking rifle in the safe but it's by far the most accurate. To me a target/Varmint rifle is tool and not something that's very pretty no matter who makes it. I own both and I'm not knocking either. Below is one badass Savage


[ 04-18-2003, 02:24: Message edited by: TC1 ]

Them walkers should all be replaced guys,ask Mr Belk about em'.Well Sean there you have it,if you want to shoot at the 1000yd benchrest out in old Missoula get a couple thousand dollar tricked out bench rest gun with little out of the box original equipment left in it.Or if you want an accurate varmint gun for under $700 like you originally asked before the thread went to heck,check out a Savage 12bvss.I brought up a Savage thread from Feburary that you can read about what some Savage owners think about their guns...........no sense repeating things that have already been said.I have no more to say on this subject its turning into a my guns better than yours contest and I own both brands and like them both.I just know which is more accurate out of the box.Good Choice and Good Shooting!

woods

[ 04-18-2003, 15:29: Message edited by: woodseye ]

anytime you can bring that badass savage up to Tn I got a VLS I would like to see ya beat.Just give me a little notice so as I will have the shells loaded for it.

70 gr Bergers,Fed GMM primers and 46 grs IMR 4064 is unreal in this one.

The group above was shot with cheapo Rem PLHP.

I bought a HOWA model 1500 in 22-250 Rem. I put a 8-32x40 BSA Contender on it and I along with a sling and I had the trigger worked on and the gun only run me 349.00. I found my scope at riflescopes.com for 84.95. All together I guess I got out for around 525.00. With a Barnes 50 gr. VLC bullet and 35 gr. of H4895 I can pretty consistantly keep groups under 1 inch.

bout half way between Kempville and Wartrace,in Jackson Co.5-5 shot group avg at 100 yard game or what?

TC1: I see you are joining in on the "savage dance around reality". Come on in! I never said the 1,000 yard benchrest Rifles could be purchased for under $700.00. I own many fully customized and accurized bolt action Rifles. I KNOW how expensive they are! None of them are built on savage actions by the way. I never even considered them! My point, that you try and do the "savage dance" around (unsuccesfully by the way) is that the people who KNOW use and start their custom, ultra accuracy seeking Rifles on actions with the most inherently built in accuracy characteristics. Try and do a "savage dance around reality dance" to that fact!
Your "savage dance around reality" just does not fly! If the savage Rifles were a better value, had a better trigger, were more pleasing to look at and were more accurate why would 10 times more people pay more money to buy a less pleasing product? Because - you are wrong! Remington bolt action Rifles are better in every respect thats the bottom line! Your "savage dance around reality" will not work on this fact either so do not try! Face it your flight from reality is obvious and a matter of facts not conjectures and wishes. I have seen plenty of savage Rifles (clubs?) shoot and they do not impress me one bit. As manufactured and designed today I would not TAKE a savage if given to me!
My Remingtons bought over the last several years have ALL been exceptionally easy to develop very pleasing accuracy with. Additionally they have all been accurate, have nearly PERFECT triggers (once easily adjusted), are very attractive, very safe and good short or long term investment values. savages are not! If you are saying using an ugly Rifle is just as pleasing as using an attractive then that is your choice and one that many American Shooters and Hunters don't want to make! If savage Rifle Company made an attractive good valued Rifle I would try one. Until then I am way more than just happy with my Remingtons!
I am enjoying this savage dance around reality the more I see of it! Please take the time to look up my thread on this board with the specifics of how well my recent Remington purchases have shot and how easily they were able to achieve that level of accuracy! None of my Remington Rifles purchased in the last 10 years have needed to be bedded by the way! Several of my Remingtons have innovative bedding fixtures and the rest of the good shooters are just that - good shooters made of wood and steel by a company that has done fantastic things for the shooting fraternity in so many ways!
Long live Remingtons reign over savage!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

[ 04-18-2003, 05:40: Message edited by: VarmintGuy ]

I was at the range recently and a fellow was testing his new Remington 700 VS (brand new has the JLock). He had adjusted the trigger pull down to the min pull where it would not slamfire. 5 1/4# according to my RCBS trigger pull guage. I have no idea how much he knows about the Remington trigger but that was the trigger pull I measured.

The new Savage AccuTrigger is very nice. It is nicer than any Remington factory trigger I have tried. Of course there is a really nice Jewel trigger available for the Remington.

My 110 FP in .25-06 will do 1.5" to 2.0" at 300 yards with a bipod front rest and a sandbag under the rear. Good enough for the $275 I paid for it.

Back to the original question - It's hard to beat the Savage or CZ for the money. I have not been as impressed with the Remingtons I've seen lately, so I don't buy them anymore. I really like the mid 1980's or earlier Remington's though.

VarmitGuy, your response is pretty typical of what I am used to any time a person tries to talk about Savage Accuracy. That is not an insult, just an observation.