For example, a dog 50 miles from the nearest house and not at all close to anyone's camp, but has not been seen chasing deer.

What would be the point?

Well, in Oz it most certainly would be.

When I was first given access to the farms, I was given very specific instructions by the owner to shoot ANY dogs that we saw. Hers are penned unless they're working, so any that we see are strays, and do great harm to the sheep flocks.

It is if it's taking a crap in my machinery shed...then it got lead poisoning. Darndest thing.

I'm with deerdogs.

It's probably the story of Lassie being lost and struggling to find his way back home .... and you waste him. Not a nice bedtime story.

If he was running wild or domestic game; different story. Drop him.

Agree with deerdogs and Kensco. If the animal is doing no harm, innocent until proven guilty. While I have zero qualms about killing something that I am going to eat or behaving viciously or destructively, I have a serious problem with the wanton killing of any animal. Something about the Lord telling us to be good stewards of all creation.

But, do what you want. It's you who will have to live with it. It may not bother you now, but it might come reckoning day .

yup.

I quess I am the odd man out.
I would shoot the dog. Just like that.

Daryl

Have seen the same dog for the last two years chasing deer on my land while I was hunting. When you get one or two days to hunt and have it ruined by a deer chasing dog sure makes me mad. Have talked to all the neighbors nobody claims it, next chance I have it will be toast.

I use to pig hunt on cattle ranch in Northern California. We blasted many a stray dog on that place. That was the owners wishes. This ranch also happened to border a rural housing area were a small boy had his arms torn off by a pack of strays. Needless to say they were shot on sight. The 375H&H makes a fine dog gun......lots O penetration!

If I saw someone shoot one of my dogs, I might shoot him. A man once kicked a dog of mine for barking at him right in front of me. If I remember correctly he left minus a front tooth.

I don't see the point in shooting a harmless dog. Maybe his owner is lagging behind, and the dog is just running ahead? It would not be a pretty sight if I saw you standing over my dog. I might start a post called "Is a trigger-happy moron a fair target?"

I have this problem quite often...I have game reserve to look after, and as it happens a lot of "hunters"(wankers/poachers) hunt on the boundries (we are not fenced) and therefore their dogs come in here, and they are forced to follow them.

I don't like shooting dogs, just a personal thing. I just these dogs and give them away to a friend who deals in hunting dogs, and they get a new home 400km from here.

I am interested in how often this topic comes up (dog or cat). I am wondering what the motivation is and perceive it to be different for different people (like most every thing else). I don't know but that some are bragging and others apparently seeking justification or approval for acts either contemplated or completed.

To my mind where you are has a big part in your decision. Is the dog collared? How is the dog behaving (what behaviors is it exhibiting)? Chasing deer is only one behavior. Is it hunting? Does it act aggressively or otherwise "undomesticated" when it sees you or other humans? Is it healthy? Does it appear well fed?

E.g., an animal that is collared, well fed and comes when called is seized and either turned in to proper authority or returned to the owner. The un-collared dog that appears undomesticated is shot. Any animal running deer, where/when illegal, is shot. Sometimes the circumstances are ambiguous. In those cases it is logical and rightfully self-serving to err on the side of caution and at least attempt to recover the animal to be returned to its owner.

What is more disturbing than shooting the dogs is that there are dogs out there to be shot. Dog (and cat) owners who do not maintain control of their animals and care for them properly should face societal sanctions, especially when those animals are a danger to wildlife or humans. I believe that there has to be a special spot in hell for such people.

Well here's the law in the UK

A dog is someone's property, to kill the dog is to damage that person's property.

You may in turn take action to protect your own property if that dog is damaging it. Game and wildlife is no-one's property and hence is NOT a reason for shooting a dog.

If you do shoot a dog it must only be as a last resort. Once you have done so you must report it to the police within 24 or 48hours (I forget which). If the owner of the dog decides to make an issue of it in law it is up to you to prove that you had good reason within the law to do what you did.

You might think this is uneccessarily complicated, actualy it is common sense. The bit about game and deer not being property is important. It means I can let my dog track and pull down a wounded deer without some trigger happy cunt killing it for the sake of it.

Hobie, Another very disturbing thing I get from these frequent theads is that there are people out there who would actually kill humans over the death of a dog.

Too many shades of gray; too many different scenerios to be able to give a yes or no answer. In Okla, the sheriff told me that out in the country where I lived, there was no "leash law" but a dog running loose on my property stopped being a dog and became a "nuisance" if I chose and I could protect my property and stock. A motley collection of shepards, rots, etc badgering stock are a definite nuisance.
I'm down to one dog now. A cow dog that doesn't chase anything unless I tell it to. If someone were to gratuitusly kick or kill that dog, I would be very tempted to reciprocate in a like manner. I certainly wouldn't run to no lawyer.

[ 01-29-2003, 19:49: Message edited by: beemanbeme ]

I posted this topic because it happened to me. I saw a dog on public land about 50 miles from the nearest house with no camps, vehicles or other people nearby (to the best of my knowledge). I did not shoot it.

About half an hour later, I found a dead deer with about 1/3 of a hind quarter chewed off. I think the dog did it.

It was my mistake for not shooting the dog. He probably ran down a deer a day until someone got him. Waiting to catch him red handed results in the death of lots of deer.

And with what I saw during last years buck season, about next to nothing, our deer herds need all the help they can get.

Mudruck

[ 01-29-2003, 20:33: Message edited by: Mudruck ]

Let's get real. A single dog, by itself, is not much of a "hunting machine" and it is highly improbable that a single dog could successfully make a living by killing deer. Dogs in packs like wolves, are a different story.

There's also a difference between "stray" and "feral". If a dog could truly be a stray, that is belong to someone who is actively trying to recover it, then it certainly should not be killed just because the opportunity presents itself. On the other hand, a feral dog is an interloper in the environment, is likely to join with others in a pack, is of no benefit to an owner, and is a detriment to the environment. Feral dogs should be eliminated.

"Vicious" or blatantly harmful dogs, whether belonging to someone or not, present another issue. If an owner fails to control his animal and it habitually trespasses in a manner that presents a hazard to a neighbor, then the neighbor is justified in eliminating the animal.

The problem is how to determine which class a dog falls into. Be careful and excersize discretion when using terminal force. Your decision to kill a dog, or anything (anyone) else cannot be undone.

Good post, Stonecreek.

For a real education on just what can happen when feral dogs are allowed to multiply unchecked, look up "Indian Wild Dogs." That's where this breed presumably came from.



I saw a piece of film a few years back wherein a pack of 40 of these relatively small dogs killed a Bengal Tiger. Twelve of the dogs were killed by the tiger during the attack, and the little bastards eating their dead buddies seemed just as happy as the one's on the tiger.

Dan

For me it had to be (or not hunt the ranch I was hunting on that day anymore) to explain-- A rancher gave me specific instructions to shoot any dogs I saw on the ranch. One day he was out with me when we came upon 3 Great Pyrenees running together. A woman down the road didn't have enuf responsibility to keep track of her dogs--an ongoing problem as it turns out. Well that CONSISTENT lack of responsibility laid the foundation of what was to happen shortly thereafter. Obviously I had to dispatch all 3 of them. Was I, the rancher, or the irresponsible dog owner at fault? One thing's for sure he never had another problem with her dogs after that incident.

I have five dog kills this year. All were on my property running deer. Don't feel a bit bad about it!! Even knew who a couple of them belonged to. If dogs want to run deer, they better not do it on my side of the fence!! But I did come home the other day and had left one of my garage doors open and found two dogs in my garage. They showed no sign of aggresion, were not running deer, and it was a very cold night. So they got ran out of the garage and the door was closed. I went into the house and my dog needed to go out in a bad way. So I looked out the window and the two were still lingering aroud so they got ran of with my Browning Buckmark. Ran off, not shot.

Hobie and Stonecreek had it about right, one has to evaluate the total situation before deciding what is the correct course of action. I, like most hunters and people, I believe, would lean in the direction of not shooting unless there was a clear reason otherwise. That said, I live on and earn part of my living by ranching, and if a dog or a pack of dogs was chasing my cattle, there would be little hesitation. However, I had just that happen last year, and the dogs were cow dogs, and they were young and I held off, admittedly it would not have been for long. Sure enough, in a few minutes, the owner comes driving up, looking for them and apologizing. He didn't say it, and I didn't say it, but he knew that he was lucky he still had them to catch.

When you live out in the country, the worthless SOBs from the city, although worthless SOBS are by no means limited to cities, are always dumping dogs because they don't have the nerve to do what needs to be done. I don't like it, but I've shot plenty of them and will certainly kill some more.

I've mellowed a bit as I've gotten older, but I can honestly say that I had a Lab for about 15 years that if someone had deliberately hurt or killed that dog without reason, I would have shot them in a heartbeat. Luckily, it never happened, although one guy was told in no uncertain terms that if he kicked that dog (on my property) I was going to throughly kick his ass. He believed me.

English law:
A dog not under control may be shot IF it can be determined that it would be a threat to live stock.
Definition of control. A dog on a lead or within the immediate vicinity of the owner or custodian.

If it ain't on a lead its history!!
why wait till its worried your livestock, i suppose its a bit like saddam hussain, he's not under control! should we wait until.....
no! Toast him now!!!

What really pisses me off is the lack of respect of dog owners towards other peoples property.
If my two dogs were shot, what would really piss me off is that fact that I allowed them to be shot. Yes! I would be upset at the loss,but I would be kicking myself in the ass for a long time, saying how could I have been so careless, after all they are my responsibility.

Griff

A single dog running loose on it's own (as opposed to a pack) may not present a problem now but as soon as it smells a female in heat, or if it is a female as soon as it comes into heat, you will either soon have a pack or some poor rural neighbor is going to have a bunch of mongrels to get rid of. I say in this situation, call the dog. If it comes and seems friendly try to find the owner. If it runs shoot it.

I used to live on the outskirts of town and thought it was neat that I saw these "wild" dogs roaming around. I know they were wild because they always ran when they saw me and I found their home, which was a big hole under the root wad of a tree that was knocked over from a storm. I thought I would be a really nice guy and put all my deer scraps close to their den for food (about half a mile from the house).

One morning I was awakened by the dogs under my house eating the cats that I used for mouse control. Well I'm not a cat fan at all, but that really pissed me off. The dogs got away, but I knew where they were going.... six dogs tried to make it back into that hole..... six shots with #4 buckshot later, not more dogs. I learned an important lesson through all that...wild dogs are wild and may do anything, therefore, they should always be shot! Make sure they are wild, then shoot them!

Just last week, I saw on the news where a blind lady who lives within a mile of that place cannot leave the house because "wild" dogs attack her seeing eye dog. The police won't help her and the spokesperson (lady) who represents the humane society says that it is the blind lady's fault... that she should control her dog. It seems there are some more morons like me living there feeding the wild dogs and not shooting them on site!

One more thing..... hide the bodies so the humane society people don't catch you and put you in jail for cruelty to animals.

Hello to forum, I'm new to the group, and your topic here was just enough to get me started.

Dogs, "to be (a target), or not to be (a target).

To all you bleeding hearts out there, consider the following. My neighbor, friend, and shooting/hunting partner had a stray dog constantly coming around his yard and getting his 4 dogs all barking/screaming/growling in the wee hours of the morning on a regular basis. We lived in fairly secluded residential area of one acre lots; and we know pretty much everybodys dogs w/ in a couple mile radius. This stray wasn't one we knew.
But being the kind hearted guy he is my friend called out to the dog one day when it came trotting down the road, and the dog responded. He came over, had a collar, was friendly, allowed himself to be petted, even picked up and put in a secluded section of my friends yard until animal control came to take care of it "legally". After all of this handling, my friend needed to move the dog to a different area. Again the friendly pooch, (a 30 to 35 pound mixed breed resembling a cow-dog/lab mix), came right up when called, my friend picked him up as before, and the dog turned suddenly and nearly took off half of my friends face, broke and ran for the hills.
Now I can hear you all saying, "he shouldn't have picked it up", and you're probably right...but that isn't the point is it. the story could have ended the same...Rabies shots and all, (which aren't cheap or fun), with out ever having touched the stray dog.
My friend 'carrys' at all times and all places where legal, (I think he 'carrys' when he's asleep at night). Our joint philosophy, and strong advice to one and all---- SHOOT THE DOG!
Thank-you, and have a nice day.

The concept of a human life being worth more than that of an an animal isn't always true for me. I would not trade the life of my dog, or some others I know, for the lives of some of the scum that occupy our jails or walk our streets. Dogs chasing wildlife or behaving in a vicious or feral fashion is one thing but if I came upon some some trigger happy moron standing over my shot dog I can promise he would have a very bad day. If you want to pull the trigger fine, but be responsible and prepared for the consequences..good or bad!

harleytwo: I have been in that situation and may not have made the right choice as my dog is dead and I am still in court .Which is state vs the person who shot him. In the state of WI it is a felony to shoot a dog unless it is attacking you or your livestock. Rest assurd this will not happen again.

My first experience with "wild dogs" occurred on Baffin Island, NWT, in 1957. This was the epoch of B.S.-- before snowmobiles. The Innuit let their dogs run loose during the summer (no work, no grub) and the Frobisher Bay band had about 75 canines (not counting the season's newborn pups). These sled dogs split up into about 5 separate packs, each led by an alpha female, with the largest group numbering between 25 and 30. They ranged far and wide looking for food; one day I spotted a group from the air about 40 miles away, feeding on a beached dead narwhal. We often fed these dogs fresh char from the Sylvia Grinnel River, since our walk-in freezer (12X16) was stacked three-quarters full with frozen salmon, like cordwood, and we were heartily sick of their flesh. The dogs would always eat the heads first,crunching through gill rakes and covers with gusto, and then rather indifferently consuming the rest and sometimes even leaving the headless carcasses for the gulls.

One night about 3am (still arctic daylight) I stepped out of my quonset to piddle and walked sleep-numbed and eyes-down around to the side where I very nearly stumbled onto two huskies. I stopped in my tracks. After a long moment I took a couple steps back. They took a couple forward. Their eyes never left mine (if you've ever tried staring down a Doberman pinscher, recall that experience and then double it). I probably would have paid little attention to them except for the following fact: a week previous a native woman going from her village to the Hudson Bay store noticed a pack of dogs following close behind. She picked up the pace; the dogs did likewise. She knew what the problem was. She had just started her period (this was learned later from her husband, who told the investigating RCMP sargeant). When she tried to cross a barely flowing stream she apparently slipped and fell and the dogs were on her in a flash and tore her to pieces even though she was wearing heavy sealskin clothing. She lived just long enough to tell the village postmaster, who happened along, what had occurred.

This scenario instantly filled my mind as I attempted to put distance between myself and the two dogs, walking slowly backwards. I tried speaking to them in a low voice but they might as well been deaf for all the indifference that provoked. Were they part of the killer pack? Beyond that awful possibility, which seemed to focus all my attention, I also felt supremely vulnerable because, in fact, that's what I was. Jaybird naked.

When one of the dogs separated and began to outflank me on my port side I lost whatever resolve was left and quartering slightly, continued walking backwards until I felt the back of my bare legs touch the side of the metal quonset hut. Both dogs moved in and stopped about 4 feet away, never taking their eyes off mine for a second. The dog to my left, the larger of the two at about 75 pounds, had half-an-ear missing, and patches of moulting hair stuck to his/her body like a musk ox.

I suddenly became aware of a powerful urge to urinate, which is what had aroused me from my bed in the first place. To this day I have no recollection of why I did what I did -- I know I wasn't being wily or clever. Probably an act of desperation, rather like the condemned man who spits in the hangman's face. Grasping my willard, I put a mighty strain on my swollen bladder and when the pain became unbearable I let fly. The leaping gushet caught Old Half-Ear fair between the eyes.

He/she went into instant reverse,head-shaking and snapping. Not a sound. The second dog became confused and began circling its companion, sniffing the air and trying to get in closer.
When the two had moved about ten feet away, I broke and ran. It was no more than 20 feet to the screen door of the hut and the temptation to plunge through it almost overcame me, but at the last second I braked, opened it and dashed safely inside. I sat on my bunk for a long moment in the twilight, then walked to a table and picked up the two-pound Folgers coffee can that served as a butt receptical. I watched idly as the two-dozen or so cigarette butts swirled around and around in a mad steeple chase, rising ever higher until they came to rest some four inches below the top of the can.

My bladder emptied, I fell into bed and slept a troubled sleep.

[ 02-10-2003, 13:16: Message edited by: Mouskie ]

Mouskie,

That was a great story. You sure were calm, at least it seemed that way.

Seems like this thread is pretty evenly divided between those who kill all dogs on sight and those who kill all dog-killers on sight, with those of less radical opinions in the minority.

Now, a poll question: How many of you have killed someone who killed your dog?

And for those who answer in the affirmative, did you hang the offender's corpse over a barbed wire fence for public display and discouragement of dog-killing?

I like dogs. If the situation arose where I did kill a dog I don't think I would brag about it. In every case I know of where dogs were killed the reason was barely supportable at best. Usually just a case of being seen by the wrong guy.
We have had one dog (a Sheltie) shot in our field. I wouldn't kill the guy that did it but I would cheerfully beat him until I felt good. It's not likely he will ever make himself available.
There was a case in central BC where a guy took another's lab to the dump and shot her in reprisal for being turned in for poaching elk. If the owner of this particular dog had decided to shoot the shooter I would have happily helped him bury the body.
The answer to those who are shocked that some would value a dog's life over that of a human being is simply, "some dogs are worth more than most humans. Most dogs are worth more than some humans.