My favorite Bourbon is, truly, Van Winkle 12 year.

When I turned 21, ten years ago, it was not hard to find in KY. The price 100 dollars Dr 750 ml.

In good restaurants in Louisville you could get a pour for 25 bucks.

Now, if anyone has it a pour is 60 dollars.

I have been offered by a local liquor store a bottle. The problem they want 600 bucks.

I know one bastard bought 2 bottles at that price. He brought them to me to gloat. The store does not want to haggle now.

Should I bite the bullet? Or say hell no!

And when I go to Louisville have my pour and be happy.

They have a lottery here in VA just for first dibs on that stuff... lady said most people buy them and sell for big profits...

The Wellers 12 yr can be had for about 1/3 or less. I ended up paying $750 for the last bottle of pappy I got 2 yrs ago. Only you can decide if it is worth the cost.

No doubt, it is an awesome bourbon. As a Bourbonologist I can say a lot of other fine bourbon could be had with that money. I would try all of Willett cask strength bourbons from youngest to old. They are all awesome! Just don’t get the Rye or the watered down pot still shaped one. You will thank me later.

The fates made the choice for me. I hesitated, and someone slew got it. I hope the person enjoys it, and does not cut it with Coke a Cola, or re-sale it.

Would of, could of, should of.

You might be able to pull this up online on HistoryNet.com. There was an article in my Spring copy of MHQ (Military History Quarterly) on Tank commander Julian Van Winkle on Leyte in 1944. It gave some background history on him about his role in the Van Winkle whiskey co. They bought out W.L. Weller in 1915 + during prohibition still manufactured medicinal whiskey. In the Pacific, he had painted on his tank "Old Fitz as that was their flagship whiskey "Old Fitzgerald". Anyway, it's an interesting article.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
The fates made the choice for me. I hesitated, and someone slew got it. I hope the person enjoys it, and does not cut it with Coke a Cola, or re-sale it.

Would of, could of, should of.

Lick your wounds by getting some of this.
https://www.kentuckybourbonwhi...ate-bottled-bourbon/
You will thank me later. it is amazing.

Boom Stick.

Thank you for the recommendation. I will pick some up next week when I am in Louisville.

I am almost out of 14 year Knob Creek, single barrel.

Willet told me they have some barrels of Wheated bourbon aging.

Are you familiar with cask strength bourbon?
It is a bit of a different experience.

https://gearpatrol.com/2014/11...ons-not-named-pappy/

I have had the 7,9,10,13 and 20 year. they were all different but amazing. I hope you can find some of those. They still haunt me.

Yes Sir.

The bottle I am drinking on now is cask strength, 60 proof, single barrel, 14 year old Knob Creek.


The bottle is half gone.

Bookers is my staple
strong, good value and deeeeelicious

While not a full bottle, I was in Lexington and Frankfort last night.

I got a pour of 12 year Van Winkle for 30dollars with diner. My old boss broke out a bottle of 20 year old.

Most folks would not like the 20 year old. It is very oaky, but I like oak.

The 12 Year is perfect, very pleasant drink.

Now, if you love higher proof rye Bourbon, the 12 year Van Winkle is probably too mellow, not complicated enough to be amazing to you. There for not worth the price.

I don't know if you pulled the article from MHQ but here's some info. This was written by John C. Tramazzo, whiskey enthusiast + founder of the blog bourbonscout.com. His book is "Bourbon + bullets: True Stories of Whiskey, War,+ military service." (University of Nebraska Press/ Potomac Books, 2018 from which the article was adapted.

I did. And Thank you.

It is my week to prosecute folks, so I have been going non-stop.

Heaven Hill now owns Old Fritsgerold.

Glad to pass it along; I thought you would find it informative.

https://thewhiskeyjug.com/bour...bon-18-years-review/

A review of the 18 Willett
I agree fully.

I would rather have these than the Pappy.

Thank you for the read Boom Stick.

I could not locate a bottle at any age in Lexington. I will get to Louisville before New Years.

Have you seen Weller Full Proof.

Weller unfiltered at cask strength 114 proof.

So, my law partner walked into my office this evening. We fight like hell. But we make money together.

I did not look up. I was thinking, “Ah, hell John. It’s after five!.” He had shoulder surgery, and has been extra ass this week.” I had spent all day in Criminal Court hoilding parole revocation hearings all day.

Merry Christmas he says. I looked up expecting to see a file on a crazy, money pit case.

There set a bootle of 12 Year Van Winkle Lot B.

“Brandon (our other partner) said it was your favorite.”

Damn it John, just when I am settled in my heart to cuss you, you do something decent!”

I had got him and his wife a bottle of Champagne.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
Bookers is my staple
strong, good value and deeeeelicious

Wonderful stuf. Great for "thinkin' drinkin'"!

So I got a mini bottle of "Sipping Whiskey" from a friends Advent calendar, great idea by the way , label says, Certified to be aged 30 seconds.

Grizz

50+ years ago when my grandfather died I went up along with other family members to help grandma get rid of stuff + just be there, etc. Anyway, when I was cleaning out all this old paperwork from his workshop I found an old label. It showed in 1920 art style a panther (ala crazy cat) standing on his hind legs, holding onto a 2' dick while pissing in a bottle with a wild grin on his face. The caption was "Pure Old Panther Piss" (made in the shed, aged in the barn). We were all so despondent over the old mans passing that when I showed it around the kitchen table we all just burst into hysterical laughter. A great pressure relief valve I think. I still recall that label.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

...Great for "thinkin' drinkin'"!

We call it “Mulling Fluid”
For when you have to mull it over...

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
So, my law partner walked into my office this evening. We fight like hell. But we make money together.

I did not look up. I was thinking, “Ah, hell John. It’s after five!.” He had shoulder surgery, and has been extra ass this week.” I had spent all day in Criminal Court hoilding parole revocation hearings all day.

Merry Christmas he says. I looked up expecting to see a file on a crazy, money pit case.

There set a bootle of 12 Year Van Winkle Lot B.

“Brandon (our other partner) said it was your favorite.”

Damn it John, just when I am settled in my heart to cuss you, you do something decent!”

I had got him and his wife a bottle of Champagne.

as an adult parole officer gang unit for a few years revoking them was my speciality. was known for never cutting a deal before we went in for court. anyways, although i'm sure it can't compare to Pappys, Bullett is my current go to.

So when did PVW start bottling 12 yo? You mean rebranded Weller’s 12....... I guess that’s why all the Weller’s 12 became so hard to get......good thing I hoarded them.

I used to go through PVW before it became famous- the 15, 20 and 23 yo. Still have 3 bottles of unopened 23 yo. The archivist at Buffalo Trace says they’re from the second release c. 2004-5.

Happy hour always was bourbon on the rocks with my Dad. My Dad always preferred the “heat” of the barrel proofs especially Booker’s (why he preferred the 15 over the 20 or 23 yo PVW). The last bottle we shared was a special select Knobs Creek. That’s all I drink when I go out.

There’s plenty of good bourbon out there. As above I prefer the wheated ones. When PVW was available for $80, $140 and $250 (15-20-23) respectively it was worth it. Not worth it with a premium. Truth be known the previously $25 Weller’s 12 (neonatal PVW) was the best bargain.

I was never able to hoard Weller + didn't try. Like so many products that disappear, we never thought there would be an end. Now if one saw the 18th amendment coming again, now that is a different matter.

Van Winkle Special Reserve 12 year was first produced in The first release was in 1991 same age, but the labeled Lot A. Later, in 1991 the label was changed to say Lot B. The alt A label disappeared.

Stitzel-Weller stopped distilling in 1992. That is when labels were started to sell off.

When Stitzel-Weller starts to run down in the early 1990s, Ancient Age (one of the predecessors to Buffalo Trace) was sourced and mingled with Stitzel-Weller distillate. Julian Van Winkle, III has siaid some of this Ancient Age distillate was used in the 2006 bottles which are the last bottles years to have SW distilled spirt.

12 Year Weller is aged in the top of the warehouse. Van Winkle 12 is aged in the bottom of the same Warehouse.

Juillin Van Winkle III samples the “Pappy” barrels and culls the ones he does not think will age “well enough” to go on tho 15 year. At least, that is what Van Winkle family and Buffalo Trace Report.

I miss 12 Year Weller being available as well. The only place I can find Special Reserve Weller is out near my deer lease three hours away.

Somewhere along the way the Van Winkles lost the Old Frits label to Heaven Hill. Behiam which is now owned by Heaven Hill also was a major source of wheated and rye distilliant to Stitzel-Weller before the transition to Buffalo Trace and old stocks were done.

Diageo who really owns Bullit owns the old Stitzel-Weller distillery. Diageo is not producing out of this location. Diageo owns a label called Blade and Bow. They claim this label maintains the last of Stitzel-Weller distilliant. If it does it cannot be much per bottle.

I have been told, but cannot confirm, that in 1971 the Van Winkle’s lost its stake in the Stitzel-Weller distillery when it was sold to Norton Simon. Julian Van Winkle II kept an office and sourced wheated distilliant from Stitzel-Weller for the Winkle label and sold the Weller line. Julian II was the son of “Pappy.”

Julian II’s death was in 1981. When he died Norton Simon did not extend the same professional curtesy to Juilian III.

Juilian III bought Hoffman Distillery in Lawrenceburg. He renamed it Commonwealth Distillery. Bottles of “Pappy” from this time period say Lawrenceburg. Post 2006 bottles say Frankfort when Buffalo Trace took over.

Juilian III had to rely on Berhiam (I have heard they were even sourcing from Wild Turkey) even when operating their own distillery. Juilian III could not really make it go, so the merger with Buffalo Trace (which had been Ancient Age and Stagg before being bought by Sazerac) after 2006.

Now that u mention it I do remember the top/bottom of the warehouse thing. But like so many of my other past obsessions my memory is fading fast....I’ve slept and drank since then.....

Not just a hoarder but selfish too. Never shared PVW with anyone other than my Dad. We drank many a bottle back in the day. Now that he’s passed, I don’t think I’ll ever open them. Plenty of other good stuff to drink otr. Bulleit bourbon or rye makes good manhattans.

Found the email:

Thank you for reaching out to us! You have a fantastic collection of Pappy bottles. You did some good digging and are very close to the age range!

The labels on your unopened 23 years state that they are bottled in Frankfort, KY. This transition occurred in 2003 on the second release of the Pappy Van Winkle 23 year. In 2005, Pappy 23 year was released with a wax top and an “A” before the number. Prior to this, the Pappy 23 years contained only numerical digits. This would place your Bottle #267 from 2003 and your Bottle #A319/#A624 from 2005.

You are correct. Stocks were moved in 2002-2003 to Buffalo Trace. 2006 bottlings used some Ancient Age/Buffalo Trace distillant.

I am sorry. This is from memory.

I think Sazerac bought out Ancient Age/Stagg in 1999 and renamed the place Buffalo Trace.

If you care about such things, Buffalo Trace also uses non-gems corn in the mash. I do not care about such things.

Technically, I thin gemo corn has Noe cross pollenated with KY and Indiana’s few non gemo corn farms. But what they hell, BT likes to tell you about it.

I can also not tell you all the years of production Bernheim distilliant was used to bloater Stitzel-Weller stock.

I have read on line that the bottle of 20 year old Pappy that was submitted to the Spriit’s contest in Chicago in 1996 that scored 99 on blind test used Wild Turkey distilliant, but was still a wheated.

Garden and Gun for all its faults had a good article on Van Weller in the August/September 2012 issue. It is not hard to find on line.

One of my books claims Juilian III did not distill at the Hoffman/Commonwealth location after the family bought it.

Lucky fish.

https://apnews.com/a5f382c5eff7430eb3f6fdc7b47bce6a

Grizz

There is s historical rumor that King Edward IV brother, George Duke of Calarence, choose to be executed for treason by being drowned in a vat of Malmsey wine.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
50+ years ago when my grandfather died I went up along with other family members to help grandma get rid of stuff + just be there, etc. Anyway, when I was cleaning out all this old paperwork from his workshop I found an old label. It showed in 1920 art style a panther (ala crazy cat) standing on his hind legs, holding onto a 2' dick while pissing in a bottle with a wild grin on his face. The caption was "Pure Old Panther Piss" (made in the shed, aged in the barn). We were all so despondent over the old mans passing that when I showed it around the kitchen table we all just burst into hysterical laughter. A great pressure relief valve I think. I still recall that label.

NC, here's your label.
https://americanheritageusa.co...re-old-panther-piss/

Thanks, brothers!

I like the Bottled in Barn portion.

There's a great article on prohibition in this month's "National Geographic History" magazine. Interesting facts about the 18th amendment before + after. Were you aware that Al Capone made 60 million a year?

quote:

Al Capone made 60 million a year?

Didn't do him much good.

Dave

True that! He was just another punk in prison + he died from syphilis in the 40s because he was afraid of needles; thus no penicillin. Case closed on "scarface". Great article though. BTW, I think that his income tax evasion is the ONLY story that I can give accolades to the IRS about.

Advice from a Kentucky drinker for those on a budget. Jim Beam in an emergency anytime, Woodford Reserve, Elija Craig 12 year for special occasions and Buffalo Trace for extra special times. Buffalo Trace is from the same distiller as all the Pappys. Good Shooting.

Some less premium bottles I offer

Knob Creek 12 year small batch
Eagle Rare 10 yr
EH Taylor bottle in Bond Small batch
Buffalo Trace


All these make awesome Manhattans, 1878 style Old Fashion (no organze slices or cherries, or soda) and true/from scratch Bourbon Sours. Just had one while reading Old Man and The Boy from the EH Taylor.

Her is the real deal sour prep.

One egg white into shaker-shake
Add to shaker
Juice of half a large lemon
1/4 oz of simple syrup
2 Oz of EH Taylor bourbon of choice

Shake over ice. In a rock glass place one 2 inch rock, pour with an open gate add three drops of Astrogoue bitters across the top.

A buddy told me about a new brand called "Horse Soldiers" Seems the guys who set up the distillery are vets who served in Afghanistan on horseback in the mountains. He says it's pretty good. An interesting story too.