JBrown, when you come down to Earth and lose your Idyllic Dreams, you will find out that lots of folks believe that same way, on many things.

You know nothing of me or my character, youv'e never met me, never talked to me, nothing.

Your like so many other folks that think they can judge a person by the opinions they express on an internet chat room.

Yes Sir, real intellectual giants that think every one is just exactly like what they interpret from posts/opinions they don't agree with.

You have stated your feelings I have stated mine.

Explain to me why I or anyone else should support anything they can no longer participate in?

Out of some sense of loyalty?

Loyalty to whom, the people able to afford the price of the hunts?

Loyalty to something that everyone has had taken away from them if the sport is outlawed?

You seem to be way to idealistic for my tastes, I get along with realists, that understand a little better how the world works, and understand that not everyone feels tnhe same way or shares the same opinion on every subject.

Bill Klinton is at the very least, consistent.

da nuge is a liar, and a cheat, and a coward. Oh yes, and a "I plead guilty" poacher. He said that under oath in a California court of law. Those statements are not subject to interpretation, nor are they subjective. This is called the truth. They aren't going away...

ted ain't doing gigs in Afghanistan or Iraq this week either.

If you did not serve, have the balls now to share that with us... If you did not, you said, at that time, in effect "I am better, I am too good to go. I am afraid something might happen to me. I am willing to stay at home and let someone less important go and serve, and perhaps take that bullet that might have been meant for me, had I not been so smart and dodged the draft."

You were a coward then, if you did not serve. You are still a coward today, and you are an even bigger coward to deny it.

Is that simple enough for you?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Your like so many other folks that think they can judge a person by the opinions they express

I wouldn't want to judge someone by the opinions they express......

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Explain to me why I or anyone else should support anything they can no longer participate in?

No thanks, I'm done wasting my time.

I could make all kinds of comments, but it is a waste of time.

You want to lick the sweat off the Nuge's huevos, be my guest.

You can't answer questions, because your too busy polishing the Nuge up for Saint Hood.

Rich has got legitimate reasons for not having any use for the Nuge.

JBrrown you ain't got any real reason for defending the Nuge, except he is spouting off the stuff you want to hear.

Hope the boy don't let you and all his followers down at some point in the future, but if he does, you ain't got my sympathy.

Yeah, God forbid we judge someone on what they say and stand for...

This the logic that got us obama last go round.

Rich

Ted Nugent doesn't mean anything to me, regardless that he is a celebrity that avoided the draft.

I think that it is great that he is pro gun and pro hunting and because he is a celebrity he has the ears of the media and some polititions.

We all know liars, cheats and theives but we can choose not to associate with them. I choose to ignore Ted Nugent even though I appreciate his message.

Don't ask me what happened in Viet Nam, when I left we were winning.

quote:

Most of the stuff people worry about ain't never gonna happen anyway

Not taking you to task RonE, but your above statement is one that I have seen lots of places, and it is about as off base a statement as has ever been made, no matter who says it.

Juist because a person makes a statement on a subject, or poses a question / gives an opinion, it does not mean they are WORRIED about it.

Free thought, random thoughts, use of ones imagination, What If etc. etc., it boils down to someone / anyone just asking a hypothetical question.

I barely graduated high school, yet I understand hypothetical concepts.

Stating that someone / anyone is "WORRIED" about something simply because they post a question, is way off base, I can say about anyone else really, but in my case, when I make comments such as the one about Nugent switching sides, is just to see if anyone else can think outside the sheep mentality.

You are correct, 99% of the "What Ifs" never happen, but is there anything wrong with holding on to the fact, that "What Ifs" no matter how improbable, Do Happen.

I don't see it as worry, I see it as being open minded to the concept that life is not run by a set blueprint and regardless of our thoughts and feelings, improbable / impossible things do happen.

Anyone that does not comprehend that, stop and think back about what happened to America on 9-11.

No one thought that anyone had the audacity to openly attack the U.S. on its home soil, but there were people around the country that when the attack happened, were shocked, but were not suprised.

Uncle Ted may be a little bit too much "in your face style" for me, but he does take the message to all politicians and people that the second amendment is what has allowed our country to remain strong and free. I almost feel like I should appologize for not serving in Vietnam on this forum,,, unfortunately or fortunately I was too young. I did register for the draft which the lottery draft ended before I graduated from high school. I went to our local movie theater every saturday morning and watched the news reels on screen every week about Vietnam, of course we were always kicking butt in the films, we had no demonstrations or dodgers that I was aware of back then,, we were very rural America. I will not be Ted's judge and jury on what he did at 18 years of age. I wasn't there! I do live near him now and I can tell you he is very involved in the area,, free concerts for schools to raise money, he even donates to our Ducks Unlimited chapter. I don't think he is doing all this charitable work because he has guilt, but is standing up for what he believes in, especially the second amendment. Do I agree with everything he says or does,, heck no! I have friends older than me that got student deferments, are they cowards,, hell no. I never served in the military,, I did do a residency at Fort Hood and Darnell Army hospital,, great training and opportunity and I got a "glimpse" of military life. There were no hostilities in the world we were involved in at that time. The army was not taking any new recruits in my field at that time and were discharging docs right and left even if they wanted to stay in because they were over staffed...
I also believe in free speech,, living in this country and being able to speak my mind,, and at the same time listening to someones words that makes my blood boil is what you Vet's fought for and many died for. I guess I will just have to listen to what old Uncle Ted has to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Bill Klinton is at the very least, consistent.

da nuge is a liar, and a cheat, and a coward. Oh yes, and a "I plead guilty" poacher. He said that under oath in a California court of law. Those statements are not subject to interpretation, nor are they subjective. This is called the truth. They aren't going away...

ted ain't doing gigs in Afghanistan or Iraq this week either.

If you did not serve, have the balls now to share that with us... If you did not, you said, at that time, in effect "I am better, I am too good to go. I am afraid something might happen to me. I am willing to stay at home and let someone less important go and serve, and perhaps take that bullet that might have been meant for me, had I not been so smart and dodged the draft."

You were a coward then, if you did not serve. You are still a coward today, and you are an even bigger coward to deny it.

Is that simple enough for you?

Rich

I realize that you're talking about Viet Nam. (You're always talking about Viet Nam. Or your dozens of 375+ elk.) I wasn't born yet, but I imagine that your "reasoning" would apply with equal force to the current conflicts.

I've never served. If that makes me a coward in your eyes, then so be it.

I disagree with your assessment that by choosing not to serve an individual has made a statement that they're better than anyone. It just means that they chose not to join the military. Personally, I see nothing inherently patriotic about putting one's life in danger to help the US impose their form of government on a foreign nation.

You are not the final arbiter of right and wrong for the world. Obviously you're proud of your service during the Viet Nam war. Good for you, but your way isn't the only way.

I think that under under sufficient scrutiny, I could find reason to disagree with everyone in the world. That doesn't mean that all of those same people don't contribute good as well. I think you've lied in the past - specifically about elk hunting. I think you're quick to anger and dogmatic, but I learn from some of your posts. I don't particularly like you, but I don't think you're all bad. I don't think that because you sometimes stretch the truth you always lie. It's the same with Ted and others who chose not to serve. You can disagree with their decision without ignoring all the good that they do.

Yes, if I were 20 years old now, I would have already done a tour, and likely be heading back after 30 days leave at home.

I didn't grow up asking what my country could do for me, but what I owed my country for the freedoms other soldiers,etc, had fought and died for to provide me.

It is NOT all about you. Or me, or anybody else. America is admired all over the world. Nowhere else, do people have the individual freedoms we enjoy.

Here is a list of the countries that have the unbridled right to own firearms like we do.
1.
2.
3.
4.

America is the only country with an Illegal Immigration problem. Why is that?

We have these things because previous generations have been willing to fight and die to obtain them. We did, and thank God there are still young men who will go and do for the rest of us.

Look inside yourself. Look deep. If you didn't serve, have the guts to ask yourself why.
It wasn't to go to school. The school would still have been there two years later when you got back. And, you would have had the GI Bill to pay tuition, books, etc.

It wasn't (very likely) that you went, and failed the physical exam.

It wasn't (very likely) that you had strong religious or personal convictions against the taking of human life. If it was, you could have been a Medic, and helped save lives.

So, share with this forum what your excuse was...

Rich

Make ONE note: a smart ass answer says, although not in so many words, ninety-percent of the time; you were afraid.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Yes, if I were 20 years old now, I would have already done a tour, and likely be heading back after 30 days leave at home.

I didn't grow up asking what my country could do for me, but what I owed my country for the freedoms other soldiers,etc, had fought and died for to provide me.

It is NOT all about you. Or me, or anybody else. America is admired all over the world. Nowhere else, do people have the individual freedoms we enjoy.

Here is a list of the countries that have the unbridled right to own firearms like we do.
1.
2.
3.
4.

America is the only country with an Illegal Immigration problem. Why is that?

We have these things because previous generations have been willing to fight and die to obtain them. We did, and thank God there are still young men who will go and do for the rest of us.

Look inside yourself. Look deep. If you didn't serve, have the guts to ask yourself why.
It wasn't to go to school. The school would still have been there two years later when you got back. And, you would have had the GI Bill to pay tuition, books, etc.

It wasn't (very likely) that you went, and failed the physical exam.

It wasn't (very likely) that you had strong religious or personal convictions against the taking of human life. If it was, you could have been a Medic, and helped save lives.

So, share with this forum what your excuse was...

Rich

Make ONE note: a smart ass answer says, although not in so many words, ninety-percent of the time; you were afraid.

I disagree that it's not all about me. I live for me. I love my family and I spend time with them because I enjoy it. Not because I have a duty to do so. I feel no duty to put my life on the line for America.

I disagree that America is admired all over the world. Did the North Vietnamese admire you or your country?

I disagree that we have the market cornered on freedom in America. The Portuguese people enjoy much more freedom regarding what they can put in their bodies. The same is true for the Dutch.

What did you do specifically in Vietnam to ensure that I would be born in a free country? There was never any danger that the VC would invade and make us commies. How are the current wars ensuring that my daughter will live in a free country?

quote:

Originally posted by Barutmt: Did the North Vietnamese admire you or your country?

I'm a little puzzled by this. It's your country too. I personally think that serving is an honor and it does make a statement about the individual. Thank God there are those willing to step up. Of course it is your right to disagree -- a right guaranteed by those who serve. Do you see the irony?

Now, back to the Nuge......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Barutmt: Did the North Vietnamese admire you or your country?

I'm a little puzzled by this. It's your country too. I personally think that serving is an honor and it does make a statement about the individual. Thank God there are those willing to step up. Of course it is your right to disagree -- a right guaranteed by those who serve. Do you see the irony?

Now, back to the Nuge......

I was not yet alive.

How did the Vietnam war guarantee my right to disagree?

I'm sure you understood what I said. I repeat: "of course it is your right to disagree -- a right guaranteed by those who serve."

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I'm sure you understood what I said. I repeat: "of course it is your right to disagree -- a right guaranteed by those who serve."

ISS was angry because Ted didn't want to go to war. I assume given the context of this thread that "those who serve" includes only those who volunteer for war. If that's the case, how are those who are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan guarantying my right to disagree with ISS?

If by "those who serve" who meant everyone who's ever been in the military, then I fail to see how your comment is relevant to the discussion.

So, you don't see the value in serving your country? Afterall it is as much yours as it is mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
So, you don't see the value in serving your country? Afterall it is as much yours as it is mine.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I see that it's beneficial to serve for some people - primarily those who have no other means of paying for school or those who will make a career out of it and can retire in their early 40's.

The assertion being made by ISS (and others) in this thread is that Ted Nugent is bad for not serving in Vietnam. I disagree. The burden of proof lies with those who claim that serving, and possibly dying for, one's country is a good thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Barutmt:
Or your dozens of 375+ elk.
I think you've lied in the past - specifically about elk hunting.

Who are you talking about?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
You want to lick the sweat off the Nuge's huevos, be my guest.

You can't answer questions, because your too busy polishing the Nuge up for Saint Hood.

I guess you failed to read my second post?????

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
I hold some of the same reservations as you regarding the manner in which Ted delivers his message. If he is turning off some of us hunters, it is fair to say that he is turning-off quite a few people who are on the fence about hunting and guns.

I'm not a big supporter of Nugent, I simply though that you are out of you mind for saying:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

if Nugent appeared on TV this evening proclaiming his loyalty to PETA and all it stands for, I would not be surprised or shocked.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
America is the only country with an Illegal Immigration problem. Why is that?

Rich, no offence but you are wrong. Making a statement like that shows your narrow view of the world, as there are quite a few countries that have to deal with illegals. Again, no offence intended.

I hope that you and I get to meet-up sometime(maybe Reno SCI in a couple of years) as I really would like to chat with you about Vietnam and your thoughts on the politics surrounding the war.

BTW, I didn't serve because Clinton was president when I graduated HS.

by the way Rich,,, I couldn't pass the physical back when I was 18,, and for sure couldn't now [a coward I am not] but I do what I can to support those who served back then and now. I have seen their commitment first hand,, My uncle was a rear Admiral during Vietnam, My father Army Medical Corp Korea,Grandfather Army Medic WW2, my nephew is Marine air crop pilot now with 2 tours of duty in Iraq.. I couldn't serve,, but I can help his family while he is away. I can't change the year I was born and can't change being severely injured at 15 and the physical limitations I was left to deal with... No coward here Rich... there are plenty of ways to serve our country,I have done and will continue to due what I can, and I thank you and those who did serve for what you did for ours, just don't paint all who didn't serve with the same paint brush.

ISS ,
I have read some of this. I am not a veteran and was not old enough to serve in Viet Nam. I fail to understand your logic that somehow you were defending our country by fighting in VNam. They could not attack the US, they never threatened the US or the US way of life, they were a dictatorship that offered a base for US forces in SE Asia. How was it that our country was in any danger from Viet Nam? History has proven it was a poorly waged war that never had a chance of success because there was no "cause" to fight for.

I was under the impression that a large number of US soldiers were drafted or forced to go and fight in an undeclared war. Our soldiers today are all volunteers. If you volunteer for the money or honor, you are doing what you chose, not what you are forced to do.

Also, I have hired a Vietnamese kid to work in my company. He is a heck of a worker. His dad is back in VN somewhere and prefers living there to here. Go figure.

There are way to many ways reasons for not serving to judge someone for not having served.

I didnt serve because I was hit by a truck two weeks before shipping off to boot camp and breaking a leg in six places is a sure fire way to end a career in the Marine Corps before it ever started.

quote:

Originally posted by RMiller:
I didnt serve because I was hit by a truck two weeks before shipping off to boot camp and breaking a leg in six places is a sure fire way to end a career in the Marine Corps before it ever started.

I expect that a certain someone prone to histrionics will soon accuse you of stepping in front of that truck on purpose just to avoid service.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Barutmt:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
So, you don't see the value in serving your country? Afterall it is as much yours as it is mine.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I see that it's beneficial to serve for some people - primarily those who have no other means of paying for school or those who will make a career out of it and can retire in their early 40's.

The assertion being made by ISS (and others) in this thread is that Ted Nugent is bad for not serving in Vietnam. I disagree. The burden of proof lies with those who claim that serving, and possibly dying for, one's country is a good thing.

If you don't think this country is worth fighting and dying for,you are getting a free ride on the backs of those who do.This is a free country and if you don't agree with the US Policies you are free to leave.

Olbiker,
You are a good guy. However, dissent is part of our culture and our way of government. Just because I disagree with "US Policies" does not mean I should leave the US. I love the country as you do, but we need to change and to change for the better. Healthy dissent is a good thing as we then distill what we really want.

The good lord decided your destiny the day you were born. He guides you down the path of life.........or death. Nuff said.

This information on Ted is new to me and I haven't checked it out for myself.

Until I do, Ted is cool.

A champion of the 2nd Amendment and hunter's rights, battling Left Wing A-holes at every turn. A celebrity that commands quite a bit of media attention in a well-spoken tone; a true asset to OUR SIDE!

Not to mention his kick-ass playing and stage show!

Patriotic rendition of the Star Spangled Banner at the beginning of the show coupled with the entire stage set up with sand bags with the band members in "bunkers" completely outfitted with machine guns... Awesome!

His comments about O'bummer and Hillary during the show would make any Right Wing Extremist Proud!

Like Me!!!!!!!

Unlike so many others, he actually realized he wasn't a good man in his youth and worked hard to change himself, commendable for that. disappointing he didn't serve his country like so many others did.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Counselors suggest in studies that your character is about 90% formed by time you finish kindergarten.

The notion that you are just a silly boy or girl at 18 is liberal pap.

As one who enlisted in the US Army at 18, and was in Vietnam at 19 I resent your characterization of the young men in this country.

It appears he was a draft dodger, and like many of that era, is now wrapping himself in the Flag and hoping we all forgot; or just considered it a harmless lapse of judgement.

HE WAS A COWARD AND WOULD NOT GO AND SERVE HIS COUNTRY WHEN ASKED TO. It really is that simple.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Olbiker,
You are a good guy. However, dissent is part of our culture and our way of government. Just because I disagree with "US Policies" does not mean I should leave the US. I love the country as you do, but we need to change and to change for the better. Healthy dissent is a good thing as we then distill what we really want.

I think some people don't understand that a person can love their country and hate our government at the same time.

Do you think our founding fathers would be happy to see what our government has become?

I wonder how many of our founding fathers would have signed-up to fight in Vietnam or Afghanistan.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Olbiker,
You are a good guy. However, dissent is part of our culture and our way of government. Just because I disagree with "US Policies" does not mean I should leave the US. I love the country as you do, but we need to change and to change for the better. Healthy dissent is a good thing as we then distill what we really want.

I think some people don't understand that a person can love their country and hate our government at the same time.

Do you think our founding fathers would be happy to see what our government has become?

I wonder how many of our founding fathers would have signed-up to fight in Vietnam or Afghanistan.

Jason,
I agree with you fully. I despise what our government has become but fully believe that our form of government is the best for us.

I would like to think that our founders would have looked at Korea, Viet Nam, Afganistan, Kuwait and Iraq and said - "let them sort this out themselves, we are not here to interfere".

Bill O'Reilly concludes every weekday show with a segment named, Pinheads or Patriots.

If I were asked to classify uncle Teddy as one or the other based on the effort he made to evade military induction, it certainly would not be Patriot.

He definitely was able-bodied. He never claimed to be contentious objector.

What other excuse for his behavior could there possibly be except that he was a scaredy-cat, candy ass, coward of the county?

Keep in mind that this topic is Ted Nugent 1967. Not 1991, 2001, or 2011.

So....for the one time (1967) he made so many here mad, he is now condemned for life?

A new talking point to this topic.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
He definitely was able-bodied. He never claimed to be contentious objector.

What other excuse for his behavior could there possibly be except that he was a scaredy-cat, candy ass, coward of the county?

Well, he was a budding rock star who had the world on a string. He had money, fame, women and the freedom hunt and party around the clock.

And he chose this over serving time in a jungle cesspool on the other side of the world, being shot at by guys who were protecting their homeland from invaders?????

Let's be honest guys, there is a huge difference between a broke 18 year old choosing to sign-up for Vietnam instead of staying home and working at the local carwash, and a rock star choosing a life of fame and fortune over heading off to Vietnam.

And to the vets, please don't take this as a swipe against you guys. I do appreciate all that you did.

While mulling-over this thread I though of the greatest man I have ever known, Dale Johnson. He served in Vietnam as a chopper pilot, or navigator. I never really knew much about what he did there because he rarely spoke about it, and never in detail(I was his son's age and I knew better than to bother him with a bunch of questions). He died about 10 years ago of lung cancer. He was in his early 50s and was not a smoker.

Anyway, I though about what he would have said if I had posed this question to him: "If you were living the life of a rock-star, with the women, fame and fortune, would you have signed-up for Vietnam?"

I could just hear him saying with a bemused chuckle, "Are you (f***ing) kidding!?" When he responded to asinine questions he had a tone that would imply profanity with actually saying it, but it was there just as clearly as if he had said it.

Your presumption that anyone inducted into the military at that time automatically got a one way ticket to Viet Nam is wrong. My neighbor joined the marines for a 2 year enlistment and never left Camp Lejeune. Two other friends joined the Army and spent their entire 3 year enlistments in Germany.

Nuge was, and still is a pinhead.

Having the audacity to name his book, Ted White and Blue is not only disingenuous but an out and out lie. He shirked his military obligation. That's different than saying no thanks to our volunteer forces nowadays.

How anyone could look upon him as a hero, guitar or otherwise, is beyond me.

Let anyone here, that has done more for shooting sports than Ted Nugent in the last 20 years please step up and proove it!

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Olbiker,
You are a good guy. However, dissent is part of our culture and our way of government. Just because I disagree with "US Policies" does not mean I should leave the US. I love the country as you do, but we need to change and to change for the better. Healthy dissent is a good thing as we then distill what we really want.

You know sometimes I do not use the correct terms and do not express my self very good.Policies was an ill chosen word.I am not against dissent as God knows I voice my opinions on this administration.I guess I do not like the apologizing and bashing of this Country that some feel they need to do.I have been all over the World(Courtesy Uncle Sam)and really appreciate what we have here.It just seems to me some people do not have a clue on what a privilege it is to live in a Country where you can speak your mind and there is nothing in the way of attaining what ever you want out of life here.Hope this clears how I feel.OB

Well said, Olebiker.

Olbiker,
Well put.
.
I guess my daughter is a big part of it.
I tell her the truth.
if you are a CO, fine, do something else.
But be proud of what you do.
.
I would hate to have to tell the truth to my kids if I was Ted.
.
18 or any age, if you take the benefits, you should man up.
.
Man up............, never used that phrase before but maybe that is what it boiles down to..............
.

In the end were you a man........

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:


America is the only country with an Illegal Immigration problem. Why is that?

I take it you don't read any news from elsewhere: EVERY western civilised nation has a serious illegal immigration problem.