Was this recorded before or after he refused Army induction?

Great version of a Big Joe Williams classic. Thanks for posting it.

Dave,

you got some documentation on that?

Rich

Rich-

Do an internet search on "ted nugent military service" and you'll find a lot of info, including his Selective Service records.

He apparently was not an honorable individual, unlike you and I.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Rich-

Do an internet search on "ted nugent military service" and you'll find a lot of info, including his Selective Service records.

He apparently was not an honorable individual, unlike you and I.

I think he has said himself that he stopped bathing before his Selective Service appointment and, IIRC, may have even crapped his pants on the way there in the hopes of avoiding their inducting him. Not good, if it's true.

I think it is kind of assinine to judge a 40-50 year old on what they did when they were 18-23.

I am 36, when I was 18 I did a lot of dumb stuff. As did most other 18 year old Sailors, and as do most 18 year old Sailors today, and Marines, Coasties, Soldiers, and Airmen. Not to mention those that don't serve that are 18-23.

Counselors suggest in studies that your character is about 90% formed by time you finish kindergarten.

The notion that you are just a silly boy or girl at 18 is liberal pap.

As one who enlisted in the US Army at 18, and was in Vietnam at 19 I resent your characterization of the young men in this country.

It appears he was a draft dodger, and like many of that era, is now wrapping himself in the Flag and hoping we all forgot; or just considered it a harmless lapse of judgement.

HE WAS A COWARD AND WOULD NOT GO AND SERVE HIS COUNTRY WHEN ASKED TO. It really is that simple.

Rich
DRSS

I don't agree with you Rich, I have known a lot of people I thought were raving idiots at 18 that are good men I am proud to know now at 35.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Dave,

you got some documentation on that?

Rich

I asked a question because I never followed his music then and I certainly don't now.

So you're questioning my question isn't going to get you anymore of an answer than this...NO.

1fun,

my apologies if I sounded cross. I just had not heard the story before. It is pretty well documented. My thanks for bringing it to my attention.

As far as service, I had friends in HS who had real conscientious objections to war of any kind. Quakers and the like. Two of them served a two year term at the VAMC in St Louis. They cleaned bed pans, and helped wounded servicemen write letters home, and did whatever was asked of them. In their way, they served their country.

My concern has always been the two-faced cowards. They were all "hell no I won't go, I am better than that..." in the sixties, and now they want to have it both ways. Draft Dodger to Patriot. What a crock.

It is a shame teddy didn't show up at my AFEES station. It was May of 1968, and three months after the TET Offensive. They would have taken him, and handed him to the Marines for a bit of remodeling.

Rich
US Army
RVN 1969-71

The real issue here for me, and perhaps Rich and all the others who did what we did between 1965 - 1973 is that we lost many close friends who also did their duty and didn't get out alive.

In 1965 while in college, my best buddy and I made the decision to enlist in the U.S.M.C. We told our recruiter we wanted to enter on active duty ASAP and go to RVN. Two weeks later, 1NOV65, we were standing on the yellow footprints at MCRD San Diego. Exactly six months later - the minimum training time allowed by law prior to deployment, I climbed aboard an aircraft at MCAS El Toro and departed for RVN. I was 19 years and 7 days old.

My best buddy didn't deploy until sometime later in 1966 and didn't make it out. I escorted him home and stood by while we buried him at Golden Gate National Cemetery. He was a Canadian citizen who loved the U.S. He didn't have to even be in RVN.

Maybe that's why we feel as we do about those who actively evaded service.

Be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it.

Semper Fi
3rdMarDiv
I Corps, RVN
1966-67 (410 days)

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:


Maybe that's why we feel as we do about those who actively evaded service.

'Actively evaded' is the opportune word/phrase for what the Nuge did. Damn coward! And now he wants to be associated with hotdogs, apple pie and Independence Day...the all-American Boy. Funny how he gets all 'in your face' with mammals other that the 2 legged kind that can shoot back. Fuckin' coward.

BTW, I would have been in the combat zone in early '68, still at age 18, if not shunted toward Wonsan Harbor, No Korea for the Pueblo crisis. Because of it I missed Tet I, but made it back for Tet II and III.

I suppose ol' Ted was laughing his ass off, all snug back home in Michigan, knowing he was just as fit and able as the next poor schmuck, but tricked the Army in any event. Good for you. Ted Nugent, the hero.

Blackbearhunter, I sincerely apologize for sending your thread off on a tangent. But no one on the face of this Earth sends me off on a rant more than the Nuge. I'm sorry. I cannot help it. It had nothing to do with you or your taste in music. Just who recorded it.

And...if I'm not mistaken, Teddy has been on the wrong side of a game law or two in the past. Most recently in California. I've never understood why the hunting industry has embraced the guy. It seems to me there are better role models.

The power of money..
Well, just like some precision rifles mfg company endorses a man who killed a mother and her child, making money..

I do agree with you, Rich. Here was a conscription army and everyone had to serve. I did have a friend who objected to armed service when I was volunteering for ROTC. He served another way and volunteered for it despite it would make his time longer.

I have been in the military since 1993, spent 7 plus years deployed to the warzone in Naval Aviation.

We put a lot of friends in the ground, aircraft accidents, ground accidents, mortar attacks, shot down, carrier accidents, some of whom I loved like brothers and sisters.

I remember those moments when I last saw someone before they never came back. Somtimes it was just 8 or 10 minuites, sometimes it was hours. Nothing like having a conversation with someone and then losing them and a whole crew 10 minuites later.

I don't tend to agree with much Rich says, and I think he's a grumpy old bastard but the more I think about it the more I am thinking he's right.

What's the difference between Ted and Clinton? Ted has done a lot to protect the 2nd ammendment, done work for cops, kids, and the hunting world. But still a draft dodger.

I guess it's kind of like Michael Jackson. Millions and millions of records, unlimited talent (to some), but still had sex with little boys.

Some of you guys should look in the mirror before making pronouncements. And some of you need to break from posting for a long while as it seems you're headed for some sort of nervous breakdown.

I am not a Nugent fanboy, but comparing Nugent to Bill Clinton is absurd.

Nugent admitted he dodged the draft when he was 18; Clinton has not yet admitted doing so. Nugent did not protest U.S. involvement in the war; he did not run off to Oxford to smoke pot and bang co-eds; he did not establish a reputation as a sleazy political whore; he did not send troops into harm's way when it was politically expedient; he did not lie to Congress. Need I go on?

I am fortunate that some of the choices I made at 18 do not haunt me today; some of them weren't very smart.

Nugent is an unabashed advocate for gun ownership and hunting and is prepared to get in the faces of the anti-gunners and animal rights fanatics.. Has he been perfect? Not by a long shot, and neither have any of you.

Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Some of you guys should look in the mirror before making pronouncements. And some of you need to break from posting for a long while as it seems you're headed for some sort of nervous breakdown.

I am not a Nugent fanboy, but comparing Nugent to Bill Clinton is absurd.

Nugent admitted he dodged the draft when he was 18; Clinton has not yet admitted doing so. Nugent did not protest U.S. involvement in the war; he did not run off to Oxford to smoke pot and bang co-eds; he did not establish a reputation as a sleazy political whore; he did not send troops into harm's way when it was politically expedient; he did not lie to Congress. Need I go on?

I am fortunate that some of the choices I made at 18 do not haunt me today; some of them weren't very smart.

Nugent is an unabashed advocate for gun ownership and hunting and is prepared to get in the faces of the anti-gunners and animal rights fanatics.. Has he been perfect? Not by a long shot, and neither have any of you.

Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

BRAVO!!!!

I don't condone his actions at 18.....hell I don't even condone my own actions at that age but by God I knew everything there was to know...back then, but I believe he has come clean with regards to this issue several times and he now (I believe) attempts to attone for his unfortunate choices by vociferously advocating for gun rights, hunting freedoms and such. I admire him for his honesty and his efforts as an adult....we all screw up from time to time but not all of us admit it much.

I also thank those of you that serve/served!!! Believe me, I've got a good idea of where we'd be if you brave men hadn't stepped up to the plate!

Regards,
Scott

Love him or hate him he speaks his mind no doubt
Ted Nugent 2010

quote:

Originally posted by Vanderhoef:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Some of you guys should look in the mirror before making pronouncements. And some of you need to break from posting for a long while as it seems you're headed for some sort of nervous breakdown.

I am not a Nugent fanboy, but comparing Nugent to Bill Clinton is absurd.

Nugent admitted he dodged the draft when he was 18; Clinton has not yet admitted doing so. Nugent did not protest U.S. involvement in the war; he did not run off to Oxford to smoke pot and bang co-eds; he did not establish a reputation as a sleazy political whore; he did not send troops into harm's way when it was politically expedient; he did not lie to Congress. Need I go on?

I am fortunate that some of the choices I made at 18 do not haunt me today; some of them weren't very smart.

Nugent is an unabashed advocate for gun ownership and hunting and is prepared to get in the faces of the anti-gunners and animal rights fanatics.. Has he been perfect? Not by a long shot, and neither have any of you.

Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

BRAVO!!!!

I don't condone his actions at 18.....hell I don't even condone my own actions at that age but by God I knew everything there was to know...back then, but I believe he has come clean with regards to this issue several times and he now (I believe) attempts to attone for his unfortunate choices by vociferously advocating for gun rights, hunting freedoms and such. I admire him for his honesty and his efforts as an adult....we all screw up from time to time but not all of us admit it much.

I also thank those of you that serve/served!!! Believe me, I've got a good idea of where we'd be if you brave men hadn't stepped up to the plate!

Regards,
Scott

+1

from wikipedia


In 2006, an interviewer from the British newspaper The Independent questioned Nugent about a 1977 interview in High Times magazine in which Nugent allegedly detailed elaborate steps taken to avoid the Vietnam draft.[48] In the interview Nugent explains that, contrary to the story in High Times, he was awarded a 1Y (student) deferment because he was enrolled as a student at Oakland Community College

"I am not a Nugent fanboy, but comparing Nugent to Bill Clinton is absurd."


You got that part right. Nuge was a complete coward. Clinton in 1969 put his name back into the draft, and only the grace of a high (311) number kept him out. Those of you still whining about his deferments will please shut up until some of you start whining about the preferential treatment given to Bush, or Cheney's FIVE deferments. How about that boil on Limbaugh's ass? Selective disdain depending on political bent, if you ask me.

Truth be known, Nugent did not do anything any worse than a lot of other folks did at that point in this countries history. His problem is that he became famous/a Public celebrity, meaning he has no right to a private life.

I am not a Nugent fan, simply because as powerful a force for good as it concerns hunting/gun ownership that he is, what happens if he wakes up one morning and decides that he has been wrong on those issues.

Think of how much damage he would do if he decided to switch sides.

Well, I am not nor have I ever cared for Nugent. I would never put him in the same boat as Clinton. I spent my time off the coast of Nam while my brother was in-country. At the same time I count several people friends that avoided the draft one way or the other...All are stand up folks these days....not sure I can say that for my brother...Day of enlistment, we had a guy who joined with the condition he would not have to carry a gun...yep, he ended up as a medic...now that young man had some stones. People do a lot of crazy things in their youth...Clinton turned out as a socialist, along with his wife..(doing my best to be polite). I knew a couple of guys who served their time in veteran hospt...good for them...Nugent is who and what he is...regardless, he is a heck of lot better than clinton or fonda or obama....nough said.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Some of you guys should look in the mirror before making pronouncements. And some of you need to break from posting for a long while as it seems you're headed for some sort of nervous breakdown.

I am not a Nugent fanboy, but comparing Nugent to Bill Clinton is absurd.

Nugent admitted he dodged the draft when he was 18; Clinton has not yet admitted doing so. Nugent did not protest U.S. involvement in the war; he did not run off to Oxford to smoke pot and bang co-eds; he did not establish a reputation as a sleazy political whore; he did not send troops into harm's way when it was politically expedient; he did not lie to Congress. Need I go on?

I am fortunate that some of the choices I made at 18 do not haunt me today; some of them weren't very smart.

Nugent is an unabashed advocate for gun ownership and hunting and is prepared to get in the faces of the anti-gunners and animal rights fanatics.. Has he been perfect? Not by a long shot, and neither have any of you.

Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

Very well said, George.

Bill Clinton ain't on the NRA Board of Directors either. Teddy has yet to apologize, at least Jane Fonda did that.

ted nugent is like the wind. He changes direction when it suits him.

I served in Vietnam. Twenty-five months and ten days. My older brother and I were there together from August 3rd of 1969 until he ETS'ed late the next January. I fail to see that playing guitar was more important than serving your country, then or now.

To those of you who defend him, tell me what you think he was doing was more important. He was a coward. Plain & Simple. That is an insult to the memory of those who DID serve. The day I enlisted, I wrote a check, payable to the United States of America. The check said "payment as needed, up to and including my life." Nineteen of my classmates also wrote that same check, and it was cashed in Vietnam.

Rich
Airborne Ranger, RVN

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Counselors suggest in studies that your character is about 90% formed by time you finish kindergarten.

The notion that you are just a silly boy or girl at 18 is liberal pap.

As one who enlisted in the US Army at 18, and was in Vietnam at 19 I resent your characterization of the young men in this country.

It appears he was a draft dodger, and like many of that era, is now wrapping himself in the Flag and hoping we all forgot; or just considered it a harmless lapse of judgement.

HE WAS A COWARD AND WOULD NOT GO AND SERVE HIS COUNTRY WHEN ASKED TO. It really is that simple.

Rich
DRSS

Yeah, Kindergarten -- which is why it's legal for 5 yr. olds to drink in bars.

I was a total hellion at 16. Now I am a public safety officer.

Hell I inlisted after high school.Not to be a patriot,thats what you were expected to do.I figured I could not look my Dad or Uncles in the eye if I didnt as they had all served in WWII or Korea.I also feel everyone is not built the same.I have no ill feelings toward Ted and like to hear what he has to say.He knows how to put Libs in their place.Maybe thats his talent and why he is here.Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is why The USA is great.We can say it!!!!!

Rothke & Ted,

why do I have this sensation that neither of you chose to serve your country? Maybe teddy could use a few new band members.

1. his records are a matter of public record. He cannot run from that. Not ever, not never.
2. he has felt no need to apologize for that.
3. he says that he played over 300 dates a year during that time. Unless Cpt Kirk was beaming him back and forth, he had no time to attend school.
4. as recently as 2010, he is pled guilty and was convicted of poaching. That's stealing.

Today, he is known to be a liar and a cheat, and was a coward when given the opportunity to serve his country. Unlike millions of young men from 1965 to 1975 who did go. He is an insult to the memory of those who went, and especially to those who died.

The Kindergarten Studies have been a matter of public record since the mid to late 1970's. Every update is on record, and one of the prime topics at APGCA annual meetings.

Ted (here) has no life other than initiating pissing contests with me. If that brings him some sense of accomplishment, I am okay with being the focus of his AR life.

Rothke, I don't know you from Adam's off ox. I would counsel you that defending scrotes here is not the best way to build a reputation.

Rich

"All gave some, some gave all..."

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

I am not a Nugent fan, simply because as powerful a force for good as it concerns hunting/gun ownership that he is, what happens if he wakes up one morning and decides that he has been wrong on those issues.

Think of how much damage he would do if he decided to switch sides.

You sure come up with some real crazy stuff!

What are the chances Nugent, a 61 year old life long hunter and gun nut, will suddenly switch sides?

I'm guessing you're not a fan of Wayne Lapierre either, because he could hurt gun rights if he suddenly switched sides....

Real silly logic there!

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:


Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

I am really surprised by such a way to express yourself, George.
Do you mean that when we talk about a celebrity, we "normal" people should abstain of pointing at the way they behave when they pretend to be someone they have never been?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Bill Clinton ain't on the NRA Board of Directors either. Teddy has yet to apologize, at least Jane Fonda did that.

ted nugent is like the wind. He changes direction when it suits him.

I served in Vietnam. Twenty-five months and ten days. My older brother and I were there together from August 3rd of 1969 until he ETS'ed late the next January. I fail to see that playing guitar was more important than serving your country, then or now.

To those of you who defend him, tell me what you think he was doing was more important. He was a coward. Plain & Simple. That is an insult to the memory of those who DID serve. The day I enlisted, I wrote a check, payable to the United States of America. The check said "payment as needed, up to and including my life." Nineteen of my classmates also wrote that same check, and it was cashed in Vietnam.

Rich
Airborne Ranger, RVN

quote:

You sure come up with some real crazy stuff

Nothing crazy about it, it is called reality.

Nugent and ANY other entertainer can and will change their allegences if they think it will help their career.

That has been proven many times in the past with various entertainers/show business people.

Lapierre or however you spell his name is a Non-Entity to me.

I don't agree with all of the NRA's concepts or methods.

What is it about a person being able to have a free thought and not be a sheeple that troubles you most?

The chances of Nugent switching sides are probably 10 million to one, and unlike you, if Nugent appeared on TV this evening proclaiming his loyalty to PETA and all it stands for, I would not be surprised or shocked.

You on the other hand would probably stroke out.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

The chances of Nugent switching sides are probably 10 million to one, and unlike you, if Nugent appeared on TV this evening proclaiming his loyalty to PETA and all it stands for, I would not be surprised or shocked.

Then you don't know shit about Ted Nugent. Ted is probably more of a hunter at heart than 99.9% of the people on this board.

He kills all his own meat and does a lot of the processing himself. The guy has been an outspoken hunter for years. He has even converted quite a few of his fellow musician into hunters and gun guys. He has always been willing to speak his mind even when it was detrimental to his career.

I really wonder if you have a worm eating your brain or something.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:


Instead of slinging arrows at him like the Liliputians that you are, why don't you put some of your apparently boundless free time toward fighting the good fights?

George

I am really surprised by such a way to express yourself, George.
Do you mean that when we talk about a celebrity, we "normal" people should abstain of pointing at the way they behave when they pretend to be someone they have never been?

Not at all, Edmond. However, attacking someone [i]ad nauseam[/b] for a choice they made 43 years ago when they were 18 years old strikes me as farcical, especially considering some of his detractors here.

Ted Nugent may not have wanted to serve in what was an unpopular war during turbulent times because of 'cowardice' or a well-developed sense of self-preservation. He has also tirelessly and unabashedly defended and promoted hunting and our freedom to own guns for decades.

Had Nugent been publicly advocating military adventures (i.e., putting someone else's ass in harm's way), his avoidance of service in 1967 would be germane.

George

No piss brains, since Nugent and I are the same age, I have had a chance to see how things have taken place over the years.

Point is, if for some wild/strange whatever circumstance Nugent did jump sides, I would not be surprised/amazed/astonished.

I don't care what he did when he ws 18, I was 18 at the same damn time and made plenty of mistakes.

That does not change the fact that Professional Entertainers are in many cases flakes.

I just don't agree with Nugent's way of delivering his message, and I ain't running up the flag for his saint hood.

I have been hunting and processing most of my own game for 40+ years also and can not comprehend what it would be like not to own guns and be able to hunt.

But that don't mean that I will always feel that way, people change, times change.

Professional Entertainers have a history of changing with little or no provication.

For those of you serving at the feet of Ted Almighty enjoy yourselves, I just ain't gonna be on of his sheeple.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

I just don't agree with Nugent's way of delivering his message, and I ain't running up the flag for his saint hood.

For those of you serving at the feet of Ted Almighty enjoy yourselves, I just ain't gonna be on of his sheeple.

This is perfectly reasonable, and I can respect your view 100%. I hold some of the same reservations as you regarding the manner in which Ted delivers his message. If he is turning off some of us hunters, it is fair to say that he is turning-off quite a few people who are on the fence about hunting and guns.

If that is why you don't like Ted I have no problem with that, but that is not what you said in your other post.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

Point is, if for some wild/strange whatever circumstance Nugent did jump sides, I would not be surprised/amazed/astonished.

That does not change the fact that Professional Entertainers are in many cases flakes.

Professional Entertainers have a history of changing with little or no provication.

But here is where you are full of "it". Ted is not some "professional entertainer" who latched onto a cause to get himself some publicity. Ted has been tirelessly campaining for hunting and gun-rights with an unparalleled dedication for decades.

Nugent is a lot of things when it comes to hunting and gunrights, but flaky is not one of them. The fact that you think he could go from being being one of the strongest, most vocal and longest serving champions of hunting and gun rights and suddenly switch sides and become a peta member shows an unbelieveable level of ignorance and is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

I have been hunting and processing most of my own game for 40+ years also and can not comprehend what it would be like not to own guns and be able to hunt.

But that don't mean that I will always feel that way, people change, times change.

Well, I guess that tells me a lot about you.....

quote:

Well, I guess that tells me a lot about you.....

What does that statement tell you about me?

Does it tell you that I accept the reality that my health might fail or my eye sight so that I would not be able to hunt, if that happened why would I want to keep my guns?

What if things go really crazy and hunting does get outlawed or the only places to hunt are so expensive the average person can no longer afford it, why would I want to keep my guns or support something I could no longer participate in?

Does it tell you that I believe people can and do change their minds on things, which shows a certain amount of intelligence and honesty.

I believe that there is a saying that has been around a long time that goes something like this, "A Smart Person Can Change Their Mind, While A Fool Never Does".

I just don't put a lot of gfaith in human nature, seen too many folks get burned because they just knew that someone they thought they knew, would not change their mind about something or an issue.

If you are silly enough to not understand, that while Nugent may be a life long hunter, he did not start getting all the publicity and public exposure until he started defending hunting and gun ownewrship so voiciferously.

His singing career had faded and he found a new medium to peddle himself, which is just exactly what he has done.

Where was Uncle Ted in the 70's and 80's, I don't remember writing columns in any of the hunting magazines.

Just like any smart entrepeneur, Nugent found a niche and fell into it and got himself back in the public eye.

I can no more guarantee that Nugent will switch sides at some point, Than You Can That He Won't, and that is a fact of life, you ain't Nugent so you can tell anyone what he will or won't do in the future.

The problem is, I know that I can'ty do that, but you evidently believe that you can.

My posts on this or any other subject on the AR only tell the people reading, What They Want To Believe, and that is something that I am not going to try and control.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Well, I guess that tells me a lot about you.....

What does that statement tell you about me?

Does it tell you that I accept the reality that my health might fail or my eye sight so that I would not be able to hunt, if that happened why would I want to keep my guns?

What if things go really crazy and hunting does get outlawed or the only places to hunt are so expensive the average person can no longer afford it, why would I want to keep my guns or support something I could no longer participate in?

The above highlighted statement erased any doubt I might have had about my conclusion regarding your character.....