The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 404 Jeffery. vs. 416 RigbyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I did a search on this topic as I assumed it had been done before, but couldn't find anything. Several things to consider of course: case capacity, action size, rifle size/weight, case size/number of rounds down, ammo/components availability, nostalgia, etc. It's all just personal preference. My vote? 404 Jeffery. What is yours? | ||
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I started off worshipping the .416 Rigby, but I had a religious experience and converted to Jefferyism. The 404 Jeffery was the first bolt action DGR in 1905, maybe conceived in 1904, the +0.40-caliber of '04. The +.4-04, the .404 ... However it got its funny name, it is still the best DGR, for many reasons. Then there is the .458 WinMag of 1956, second best.  Rip . | |||
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The Jeffery is a pussycat ! gentle push sweet sweet shooter...... the 416 Rigby ..... will knock the snot out of you  | |||
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Besides the recoil, the original 404 Jeffery compared with the original 416 Rigby was considerably slimmer and lighter. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Haven't fired a .404 Jeffery but can attest to the fact that a CZ 550 .416 Rigby can kick the snot out of you. Karl Evans | |||
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I've never shot the 404, but the 416 I have. I don't think the 416 kicks too bad unless you handload above factory ammo speeds. I hear the 404 is a little more gentile than the rigby. for handloading, there are more bullet choices for the 416, but the 404 has a decent amount to choose from. I would say choose what your gut tells you to. | |||
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I like the 404. First I had more than 30yrs ago when all that was available was RWS ammo and handmade dies. At over 2300fps for a 400gn projectile in a light little Mauser action takedown Bland it was quite sweet. Should never have sold that one...... DRSS | |||
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Hand me the 404! | |||
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I owned a 4I6 and loved it. Yes full power modern hand loads do have stiff recoil but reducing it to 2500 fps with 400gr & 2700 fps with 350 gr bullets made it manageable. I got a new CZ 550 with Kevlar stock and tuned it up a bit myself. I was originally thinking of a 404 for about 10 years. It was hard to find components, brass etc. I wish I could own a classic Mauser 404Jeffery "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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I prefer the .416, as you can do what you wish with it... In a modern action, one can push it up to the levels of the .416 weatherby...why you would want to is beyond me, but you can. You can also load it to .404 specs. The .404 can be hot rodded up to Rigby spec, but not into the weatherby range. While minimal, it's slightly narrower diameter makes it have a bit more sectional density. It's also a tad more available as factory fodder. As far as recoil, to me they are about a oneness if loaded similarly. Of course, either will kill any game animal alive. One can shoot what one likes. | |||
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I am not a big fan of any of them, would take the .416 though..lower pressure is always nice. I once had a fairly light .416 Rigby and yes, it kicked the snot out of me..should be about 4,8kg.. My thought is that when you need more than a .375H&H you go for .45 calibre something or even bigger if elephant is on the menu.. That said...both are probably better for buffalo than the .375H&H.. | |||
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well, both are mediums, to begin with - and this is a ford v chevy question my real answers for a single hunt, meh, i am indifferent - the only thing that would concern me about either would be having the 404 ammo with the rifle and the rigby with the rigby in real life, BOTH cases are too large for the results, which is grossly inefficient, and a 416 taylor can match the 404 factory loads, at modest pressure, and a 416 rug/rem/huff/accrel can easily match the rigby .... and ALL of the alternative listed - ALL of them, are smaller and/or shorter than the 404 if you intend to run the 404 at original vels, for modest recoil, that's cool .. but you have to reload for that, and therefore you could also load the 416 to the same vel.... and the animal will never know the difference opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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It never ceases to amaze me that every time conversation about these old timers come up someone will pop up and tell us how "inefficient" these cartridges are and how they can and are loaded to some or other "super velocity" or whatever. Fact is that what endeared the 404 to many was that here you had a perfectly efficient killer of large game with those now proclaimed anaemic loads in a manageable infinitely shootable rifle package ( when compared to the true large bores of the day) The 404 originally was built on standard M98 actions and though the barrels were dimensioned for the caliber they retained their relative portability and shootability. The original Rigby did not even come close to this ! The numbers built and in service attest to this ! The Rigby as famous as it is in terms of celebrity status was large, had way more felt recoil than the Jeffery. George Gibb's original 505 even bigger and less numerous still. ( my neighbour had an original Gibbs which was lost in a fire that destroyed his camp) I shot that rifle and it was way to big a gun for my taste. In researching the guns by numbers built and ultimately in service the 404 wins hands down ! As to issue of the loading up of both : if one were to shoot an original as they were, open sights unscoped then the super velocity load is moot as one is forced to load to the regulated sights ie mimic the velocities and loads of old. Unless off course you are willing to drill and tap or alter your original to accommodate a scope and thereby risk losing value. My own experience of the modern revival of the 416 comes at the hand of Rugers attempt at rekindling or tapping off the celebrity status of the 416 in the form of the Ruger M77 Mk II Magnum Express Rifle. This rifle was released in 1998 in the USA and soon after my hunting partner bought one. Regulated to Federal's newly introduced ammo to match this gun "killed" at both ends. Compared to the 404 the recoil on the Rigby is sharp and unpleasant. It was a disaster to shoot, it was "huge" had a oversized water pipe for a barrel a stock from hell and it pointed and swung poorly and above all shooting it was not fun, in fact it ruined shooting for many as it was the cause of the dreaded flinch. The Magazine capacity always had one in a state of "too little ammo in hand" anxiety Ruger had not sooner released this rifle when they altered the dynamics to a more slimmed down version. Sadly the stock configuration remained to be a problem and the recoil issue was never resolved. At the same time ( just before ) Remington released their 416 Remington and the shooting world rejoiced ( many proclaimed the death of the 375 H&H because of this) here we had a 416 that could be made from 375 cases at a pinch and it was a manageable shooter, way more so than the Rigby. I had one built on a ZKK 602 as a go to gun down in "my Africa" and I have it still. Today the 416 Remington has been killed off by the company that brought it to us and ammo and brass in many parts of the world is once again a issue as was the original Rigby at one time........... | |||
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When it came time for me to choose in real life i chose the 404. Duane is finishing it up any day now. | |||
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Did you even READ my post, Doc? today, the cases ARE grossly inefficient to achieve ~400gr @2250 --- and that combo is a GREAT mild load to shoot and, if you READ my post, i am indifferent between the two... must be late there ,Doc opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Yes, I don't know what it is about them-it could be there cheap recoil pad or there bulky grips but no doubt CZ stocks have bashed my face in.One of the things I've asked my smith to do to my CZ Lott aside from rebarreling etc... is to sand down or trim the stock and install another recoil pad. | |||
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Well! That is BS ALF! You may be talking about making loads shoot to 1905 vintage sight settings, but that is not at all the grounds for comparison here! Far from it. I have shot plenty, all delivering identical ballistics, with 8.5-pound 404 Jeffery Winchester M70, 9.25-pound .416 Rigby CZ 550 Magnum (walnut Lux), 9.125-pound 404 Jeffery CZ 550 Magnum (Kevlar) and 10.75-pound .416 Rigby Ruger RSM Gen-2. And the fat boy Ruger .416 Rigby is horribly painful for recoil you say?  That is totally wrong. As you were before ALF misguided everyone: There is just not much difference in the ballistics they are capable of. The 404 Jeffery easily does +2400 fps with 400-grainer (many) +2500 fps with 380-grainer (GSC and North Fork) +2700 fps with 340-grainer (North Fork) +2800 fps with 330-grainer (GSC) My first cape buffalo was taken with the fat .416 Rigby Ruger shooting a 380-grain GSC FN at +2500 fps MV. My first bison was taken with a handier 404 Jeffery M70 shooting a 380-grain North Fork SP at +2500 fps MV. Both were one-shot kills. In fact the 404 Jeffery MV was faster with the same weight bullet, using a lot less powder. It is indeed a more efficient cartridge. Also undeniably true is that the 404 Jeffery head size is the biggest that works perfectly in a Mauser-staggered stack magazine. Anything bigger violates Mauser Law. No magazine box I know of is wide enough for the .416 Rigby. I am still waiting for anybody who knows of one to tell me about it. No cigar! The 404 Jeffery has the lesser case body taper, but makes up for it with the long-sloped, gentle shoulder and long neck, that make it a magical feeder. The .416 Rigby has lots of case body taper and an abrupt 45-degree shoulder, but it gets by, even though too big for the magazine boxes into which it gets stuffed. No contest. The 404 Jeffery beats the .416 Rigby quite handily. Rip . | |||
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RIP whoo boy here we go again ! So I personally have no interest in what can or cannot be gotten in terms of velocity with the 404 or the 416 and therefore my comparison is related to the original and originals only ! And this purely because the rifles are regulated for those old rounds. I have a few original 404's and a original 416 The original 404 was regulated for Kynoch ammo loaded to 2125 fps ( factory spec) on a 400 gr bullet. When we ran out of Kynoch 404's in the 70's RWS came to the rescue with their 404 which was loaded to 2400 fps for their nickel plated RN FMJ. We considered this as a "hot load" and would not shoot to the original filed sights on either of my two original rifles. When Kynoch stopped making ammo I bought a original 416 at an Auction. Ammo was a issue and I managed to procure some original pre 1950 ammo for my rifle. I paid more for the ammo than the rifle ! These were loaded to 2350 fps on a 410 gr bullet but could not be reloaded as they had a large cap Berdan primer much like the original 505. I was lucky because Ken Stewart who was living in Ofcolaco in the Lowveld ( before he moved to Pietersburg) made 410 gr copper clad softs for the Rigby ( just about the only source of bullets at the time ) and I managed to get a handful of reloadable cases for the rifle. For some years it largely remained as a safe queen because of lack of ammo or loading components. As to a comparison between the two my original 404's and the 416 Rigby the 404's are definitely sweeter shooting than the Rigby and compared to my modern Mauser Rigby the new rifle with factory ammo is no benchrester ! As to that original Ruger, it was sold in short order never drawing blood. In lieu of my buddy had a 404 built which he hunted elephant and buffalo with for many years | |||
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Alf, Your buddy was a wussie, eh? But that is neither here nor there for the discussion at hand.  Rip . | |||
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The 416 Remington would never kill off the 375 and for a simple reason....375 bullets from the likes of Hornady. The vast majority of big bores are bought because blokes like playing around withthem. Weatherby has hardly ever been able to give the 416 Wby away and because the "play factor" is tied to the 378 and 460 and not just because of the 378's "fastest big bore" and the "460's "most powerful" but again bullets. | |||
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Mike: Yep but all of the gun scribes were claiming the Remmie would be the death of the 375 ! In fact I still have most of the articles claiming this  Stuff like: "The king is dead long live the king " etc etc. BTW I see RWS / RUAG have dropped the 404 from their line up  Their older style brass was bar Norma the best around..... they then dropped making it and for a while one could only get the nickel plated brass loaded ammo ( at a very very steep price ) | |||
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Alf, I remember all those articles and I also remember a mate of mine telling my loved 375 bore size was dead and it would now all be 416 I think the 416 Rigby has done quite well, certainly in Australia and because of the combination of the "big cartridge" and cheap CZ rifle. Prior to the CZ in 416 Rigby you only had a "big bore big case" in the Mark V, in terms of readily available rifles and Weathery has never offered the 378 or 460 (and the 416) in the cheap rifles, the Deluxe is the cheapest option. The "play thing" is not restricted to big bores. Just look at the 30/378 Wby and in the cheap Synthetic Mark Vs. | |||
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let's see 0 both are great MEDIUMS -- .. there 404 is awesome, but the rigby kicks too much? horsehockey --- both kick a GOOD DEAL more than a 416 taylor loaded to 400gr at 2250 --- BOTH OF THEM -- ejecta is a thing. anyone that states they can shoot a 404 but the rigby kicks too much has found his limits .. and a pretty bright line difference that is ... neither of these rounds is a "big kicker" in the SAME weight gun ... shesh, this is like knuckleheads arguing over a 350 chevy vs 351 ford --- that's just splitting frog hair five ways if you want 400gr at 2250, and mild kicking, the 416 taylor is the way to go .. least powder for results, in the same weight gun ... it's just MATH Luddism, however, is a thing, i guess opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Well...I guess everyone's experiences vary. However, I can identify with those that say Ruger's .416 Rigby kicks like a mule. I had two Ruger Mk II's and both only very shortly. One was a .458 Lott which I later traded for a .416 Rigby. Sold both very quickly. Both would kick unpleasantly, both would jar my teeth and have muzzle blast to induce a headache after only 2 or 3 shots. I attributed this to the Ruger stock not fitting me well. I had a CZ550 with the synthetic stock in .458 Lott and it was a pleasure to shoot compared to either of the Rugers and my .416 actually had the Decelerator pad installed. Buddy now has a CZ550 in walnut stock in .416 Rigby. I will give that a try to see how that compares but in general I find the Brno/CZ rifles much more comfortable to shoot, regardless of caliber. So I guess their stocks just fit me better. | |||
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NuB Exactly ! There was something fundamentally wrong with that "pre Warning" Mk 2 Express magnum ! | |||
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SMH -- 2-3# heavier gun kicks MORE - with similar drop and stock?? and Doc here jumps up for efficacy opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Ive been a Jefferys fan since I was a kid, never owned a 416 Rigby but killed a buff with one some time ago.. In kill power they are equal in every respect, if one handloads.. The 404 factory stuff is a pussy cat for back push, my handloads will rock ones teeth..My max load has been for years 95 grs. of IMR-4831 for 2600 plus with a 400 gr. Northfork, A load tested by North Forks original owner..In later years as I aged I dropped that load down to 2400 FPS with 92 or 93 grs. depending on the gun..and liked that load best of all and still shoot it... Much the same can be said for the Rigby..I have some friends in Aussie land that load the 416 Rigby much hotter than than I can get in my 404... They shoot their Rigbys at 100 to 200 FPS beyond my best in a 404...Keep in mind the 416 Rigby is underloaded and always has been, and the rigby IS actually a 416 WBY without a belt, but its fame came from underloaded ammo with very mild pressure, in the old days that was a plus for sure.. All that said, my only reason for choosing the 404 all these years is it can reasonably be built a pound or two lighter than most 416 Rigbys not to mention slimmer and meaner with a less bulky action..The fame of the 416 Rigby came about by some fine scribes, and its best plus was very mild pressure with outstanding velocity in a big heavy gun in most instances. Mauser built some very light and handy 416 Rigbys on std. Mauser actions, I know a PH who has been shooting one for years and I have often lusted for it, but its not a welcomed practice among American gun builders..Just my two bits, and to each his own, but I will never prefer a Rigby over a Jefferys..You have to deal with nostalgia in both of these camps, but the 404 nostalgia was earned the hard way, the Rigby was never that popular as many declare.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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IMO, the problem was the caliber, the Lott is a bad recoiling caliber. it hurts with any stock, and demands to be shot off hand by those full of testosterone or sh-t..one are the tother.  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Recoil is a matter of the load - either one can be made to be milder than max loads some folks run. Both have a great selection of bullets - the 404 makes a slightly bigger hole in the animal and gives up a bit of SD on gr for gr versus the 416, but don't think the animal would know the difference. Given the two (if there is even a real world difference), I'd take the bigger hole over the SD. I like the 404 because it is slightly smaller than the Rigby. I had originally thought about building a 450 Rigby or Dakota on an African Dakota action, but opted for the 404. I figured I could have less recoil and a hole almost as big. I decided to build on a 1917 action and decided on the 404 over the 416 based on rim diameter - they 416 Rigby would have left me with a very thin bolt face lip. It also gave me more room for rounds. 4 rounds down with a flat mag was easy, I have a few tweaks I still need to do and I can get to 5. BTW - I hunted with it in 2014 with 4 down. So I'd say if you were trying to decide, I'd go with the 404. Now, I think people decide on a 404 vs a 416 Rigby based on nostalgic reasons. I did. I think the 416 Remington or 416 Ruger are more modern, practical choices. The 416 Remington would win in my book because of ammo availability, but think the 416 Ruger is actually a better design. BTW - I did buy a 458 Win Mag the same year I finished the 404 as backup for my elephant hunt that fall. I was concerned about getting the 404 done in time. And yes, it has quite a bit more recoil - especially since is about a 1.5 lbs lighter than the 404. I still want to shoot a hippo with the 458! "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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The 416 Rigby is more versatile. It can be hand loaded to 2800-2850fps with a 350-grain TTSX. That is 505-Gibbs level of muzzle energy. However, at factory load levels the most practical choice is the 416 Ruger. The 416 Ruger is a great concept that just needs more brown bears and African hunting opportunities. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I voted 404 Jeffery. I owned a CZ 416 Rigby. 6-8 shots and I was done. Last time I was out with my Model 70 404 J, 40+ shots with no recoil issues. Currently getting the feeding fine tuned for a trip to Africa next year. jeffeosso is correct, I found my recoil limit with a 416 Rigby. | |||
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I can appreciate the support for the .404 and I kinda want one myself. But, I have a super accurate Rigby that kills quite well. Apparently in contrast to most of the posts, mine doesn't seem to kick all that bad. I'd swear my .458 WM kicks more. | |||
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Magnum Hunter, agreed on recoil. --except for those on this thread, most other people would say that the 416 Rigby is relatively mild, it was famous for a gentle shove. Joe Alessandro "Real Guns" said the the 416 Rigby was the largest calibre that he could say that he enjoyed shooting, without lying through his teeth. I just don't fit in because I load the 416 Rigby to 416 Weatherby statistics. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Exactly Tanzan, I am always surprised at how light the recoil is when I shoot it after a long hiatus. I always expect more. It probably weighs in at about 9 to 9 1/2 lbs. What is puzzling, I have a 10 1/2 lb. 450 Nitro Express that seems to recoil much more. I wouldn't expect it. Also, I can tell a world of difference in the right barrel and the left. The right hits my cheek harder. It seems to me, the right barrel should kick away from the cheek and the left toward it. But it does not feel that way. Odd. Back to the 416, yes it has a surprisingly light recoil compared to the killing power you seem to get. | |||
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If the recoil of a .416 rigby hurts you, your doing something very very wrong! I have no dog in this fight and have way more experience with the .416 Rigby than the .404 Jeffery. I would not hesitate to shoot a buff with either as they are not that much different. Both are good killers. I handled an original .416 Rigby built by Rigby on a M98 action and really liked it as compared to a magnum action build! Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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This has been my complaint with the 416 Rigby. I own three 416 Rigbys as of today (had five; sold one and traded one for a new safe last week), so I'm not just a 404 owner. One is on a Dakota African (magnum action), and the other two are Ruger RSMs (gen III; slim barrel, 9.5 lbs.). The Dakota weighs 9.5lbs. also, but the wrist/grip and forend is too large for my small hands. The Rugers are fine. However, my Dakota Safari 404 Jeffery (smaller than the African) weighs only 8.5 lbs., and the grip and forend fit me much better. Not as well as a Ruger Hawkeye, but better. I like the weight and fit combo of the 404J Safari much more than any of my 416s. I called Ward at Dakota and asked if a 416 Rigby can be built on a Safari model. He said not many have been done, but yes, it can be. If so, then which would I prefer? As many have said, they are so close, it really doesn't matter. As I stated when I started this thread, it's just personal preference IMO. Both have a great history, and the Jeffery was first. Both are over 100 years old, so plenty of nostalgia to go around. So, as Rob mentioned above, the Mauser 98 in 416 Rigby must be nice and I'm sure I'd like that as the best of all options. Could a 416 Rigby be built on a Dakota Classic Deluxe (standard action size)? That's a thought. Hmmmm. Oh well, I'm very happy right now with my 404J. Will probably stick with it and my RSMs. My Dakota African 416 Rigby is for sale... | |||
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As to power of 416 vs. 404, the 416Rigby has almost 20% more case capacity. While factory loads favor the 416 a little bit (2400fps vs 2300fps with 400 grain bullets, 416 over the 404), if one handholds, then the Rigby's capacity is awesome and can be loaded to 416Weatherby levels. Please don't say that the 404 and 416Weatherby are practically the same thing. the 6000ft# and more in the Rigby is a significant level beyond the 4700ft# of the 404. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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You are correct! The case capacity of the 416 Rigby is more than the 404 Jeffery, and by a fair margin. I guess I was refering to factory ammo, as that is all that I use, as I do not reload. Today, that is about 2350 fps for the Rigby vs. 2300 for the Jeffery. Also, I do not want to shoot a 400 gr. bullet at 2700 fps. OUCH!  Especially in an 8.5 lb. rifle, which is the weight I prefer to carry. You have my deepest respect... So for me, it comes down to the weight of the rifle, the size of the stock (grip, forearm, etc.), or in general, portability, for a hunter with small hands. Winner? 404 Jeffery. But again, I am speaking only for myself and my build/physique, and my desired power level in that caliber. I do own a 458 Lott, 470 Capstick and a 505 Gibbs if I feel the need for a higher level. | |||
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allow me to restate -- these are the 308 and 30-06, 404 to 416, of the mediums - there isn't a practical difference between their external ballistics, in today's factory loads. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Well--I like to shoot a 350gn TTSX at 2825fps out of the Rigby. It's quite manageable in a CZ hogback stock. In terms of power it is even a tad more than the Lott and at the level of the factory Gibbs, but I, too, would rather have an accurate Gibbs in my hands for a buffalo.
Jeff--you are right for factory loads-what's a 100fps? About the same as a 308 go 30-06. But as soon as someone pours their own powder the Rigby becomes a 300Weatherby if one uses a 30 caliber analogy. And, well, I think a lot of people would say that the 300Weatherby does have more effect and range than a 308. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 404 Jeffery. vs. 416 Rigby
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